Is Biden admitting to illegal behaviors during his term?

My personal take is that Biden is doing what he can to soften the rampage that is coming.

No. He’s just protecting them from the grade school bully who has stated he will send the wrath of g-d down on his dissenters many times.

Of course not.

I understand the left wing talking point of “Trump is going to weaponize the government against his political rivals”. But if they did nothing wrong, what is there to use against them, and why would they need pardons? If they did do something wrong then wouldn’t the pardons would be used to protect them from justice?

Not at all. He is simply insulating his staff against asinine retributive made-up action by the Trump asses.

Not at all. He’s saving those people money they would have to spend on lawyers for the frivolous charges. And saving the taxpayers money to not go through senate hearings, court cases, etc., again for frivolous charges.

Doing nothing wrong could get you ten years or worse in Stalin’s gulag. That is what happens when the legal system is controlled by one political party and indeed one man.

Wouldn’t he be admitting what they did wasn’t illegal? How would pardoning someone be admitting you think they are guilty? Doesn’t that mean he thinks they are innocent?

I might not understand what a pardon is. Doesn’t every president do that at some point ?

@MakeItSo1701 Our friend @seawulf575 tends to want to put the republican spin on anything he writes. That doesn’t mean it is accurate.

Your hate for the Democrats is showing.

Are all the people Trump pardoned also criminals?

@MakeItSo1701 Pardoning is a forgiveness for crimes. It might be that the POTUS thinks someone was erroneously convicted. It might be that the POTUS feels that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. It might be that the POTUS just felt that person no longer presented a threat to society. It might be that the POTUS felt that the person, having done the time in jail and whatever else the punishment might entail, deserves to be able to say they were pardoned. But this is none of those. He is giving blanket pardons when no charges were even brought. He’s back dating some a year or more. So he is pardoning people for anything they may have done illegal during the time frame. In some cases there are already investigations going on so he effectively said they cannot be charged even if they committed murder. They are off the hook for anything from the period of the pardon.

And that is where my question comes in. If they weren’t doing criminal activity, why would they need pardons? So isn’t pardoning them the same as saying they were doing illegal things and he is forgiving them before any charges are brought, if any were going to be brought.

My fellow jellies are mainly left-wingers and cannot admit that the Democrats would do anything underhanded or illegal. Their go to answer for everything is “Blame Trump”. And if you look at many of the answers they have given, they are all assuming Trump will now, as POTUS, try rigging up charges and bring cases against all those he doesn’t like. But if you think about it, that is what he just went through for the last 2 years…charges being made up and cases being brought all in an effort to keep him from campaigning and/or to bankrupt him.

@MakeItSo1701 Yes. In one way, shape, or form, everyone Trump pardoned was a criminal either serving time or after that was all done. These other jellies here love to bring up that Trump pardoned Charles Kushner who is the father of Jared Kushner, Trump’s Son-in-law. That is their big “gotcha!” when it comes to Trump pardons. But if you look at the case, Mr. Kushner was convicted of tax crimes. He was sentenced to prison and parole which he served in full. All that was over many years before Trump even ran for the presidency the first time around. So yes, he was a convicted criminal, but he had done his punishment before he was pardoned.

If you don’t like it, leave the country, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it.

I have really only heard pardon in the context of a governor exonerating someone from a crime they didn’t commit. I assumed it meant that person was innocent, not being “forgived”.

Edit: Nevermind, pardon and exonerate are two different terms.

I am not educated enough for this debate, sorry. Excusing myself now.

@seawulf575 Even if they did nothing wrong they can one, trump up charges and two, just the cost of lawyers for years can cost them money they don’t have to fight. Trump promised to weaponize the government to come after all those on his hit list. He is a hateful petty man who has put into place a lot of yes men who will have no problem breaking the law to please him.

@Pandora I wouldn’t use the word petty with trump. Sociopath, psychopath and evil creature would be more apt.

I like Hitler wanna be.^^^

@SQUEEKY2 not sure I agree with that.

Hitler, for all is evil, had some overall strategy to what he was doing. I think the man was a despicable murdered, but everything he did, from the Weimar era up through WW2 and his death, had racial (aryan) attributes behind them to move towards his goal of European, and then world, domination.

Trump isn’t that smart. He doesn’t have a ‘world view’ in the sense Hitler did. Trump’s world is personal, transactional (what can you do for me?), and localized, not universalized. I don’t think Trump operates with a ‘big picture’ set of goals.

That said, some of Trump’s acolytes (the MAGA bunch) are much smarter than Trump and DO have strategic goals. They are the ones to worry about.

My prediction – the republicans will overreach, as they usually do, and fall flat on their faces early in Trump’s final term.

One of the problems that can result from this blanket pardon for the family members is that it opens the door for Trump’s family to commit crimes, and Trump can issue a blanket pardon for them on his last day in office, and it will be the new “thing” for Presidents to do, going forward.

@jca2 This wasn’t a blanket pardon for his family members but for those like Liz Cheney and the House January 6 committee whom Trump has repeatedly threatened to investigate. Trump has also stated that he plans to pardon many of the January 6 insurrectionists. I don’t think Trump worries about precedents for his actions.

No, and you already know that. Just couldn’t resist stirring the pot, could you.

@jca2 Sorry. I just read that he did pardon some family members along with the others. And Trump pardoned 1500 J6 insurrectionists. Maybe there’s something wrong with the whole system of Presidential pardons..

5 family members today, @janbb.

@Pandora Yes, he could. It was done to him. But I don’t think he would if they were innocent. The American people saw what it looked like when the Dems made up charges to tie him up and bleed him dry. That is one of the reasons he won the election. He campaigned on doing away with lawfare. The people would roast the Repubs if they tried the same game. But if they are guilty, an investigation was done, there are actual, articulable crimes that can be brought, then they should face trial for their crimes. Wouldn’t you agree? Or do Dems get a pass no matter what they do?

That is the point of this question. There were no charges being brought in any of the cases. There was quite a bit of evidence against each and every one of the pardonees, but no charges. No Grand Juries convened. Nada. Yet they just got forgiven for any crimes they may have done in the past however many years. Here is a legal definition for a pardon. It states “A pardon is a governmental decision to absolve an individual for a criminal conviction, often times freeing him from all or part of the punishment imposed at sentencing.” By definition it implies a crime was committed. The pardons Biden gave were not for any articulable crime. They were blanket forgiveness of all sins, known or unknown. That even indicates that a crime may have been done.

So in your opinion its okay if Trump and his cronies just make stuff up to bleed people dry. When they went after Hillary for all those years and came up dry because they had nothing to pin on her that didn’t stop them form trying. They even admitted they didn’t have anything. Not in Trumps cases which by the way he was found guilty in NY. And I don’t care what you believe he lead a coup and is treasonous and forgave the other traitors as well. He has no business sitting in the White House. But I’m trusting for everyone he makes suffer, (call it God or karma), he will get his and he will suffer 10 fold and so will his minions.

A US president, is above ANY law.
So, no….

@Pandora Absolutely not. I don’t play that. And I have already said that and gave you my reasons. Funny that you ignore that to that to try assigning a contrary belief to me so you can go on your rant. But it’s also funny that you bring up Hillary. Let’s review that a bit.

She was accused of having classified materials on her own server, not a government server where it could be controlled and tracked. Sounds kinda like Trump having classified materials at Mar-a-Lago, doesn’t it? So how was that handled? The FBI asked her if she had classified materials. She said no. They didn’t raid her house, they didn’t bring in 20 agents with orders to use whatever force is necessary to execute a search warrant. But then the issue continued to get pushed. So they let HILLARY decide what was and wasn’t pertinent. She disposed of a ton of emails on her own, claiming they were just personal. When does the person under investigation get to decide what is and isn’t pertinent and then just get rid of it on her own? Nothing was ever done to her about that. She then turned over her emails for them to go through. They found tons of classified materials in the stuff she did turn over. They found classified materials on Anthony Weiner’s laptop where Huma sent them. Huma who didn’t have the clearance to deal with these materials. They demanded (finally, after much pushing) to have her turn over her servers and any personal electronics like her blackberry for forensic evaluation. She took a hammer to all the electronics so they couldn’t be reviewed and then demanded her servers go to her own pet company for forensic evaluation. Amazingly they say they found nothing but their investigation damaged the servers beyond ever being able to be reviewed again. Nothing happened to them or Hillary. The law is very explicit. When dealing with classified materials, loss of control is a crime. It lists punishments. It specifically says that intent has nothing to do with it. In fact it uses the words “gross negligence” as one of the things that is not an excuse. So what happened? James Comey comes out and says that they found classified materials where they didn’t belong. (Isn’t this exactly what they were trying to burn Trump with?) and that she was “extremely careless” in her handling of these materials. This is another way of saying she showed “gross negligence” in her handling. He started to use those words and someone stopped him because it was wording right out of the law that says it isn’t an excuse. So he changed it to “extremely careless”. He then created the clause that “she didn’t mean to” so no crimes would be brought against her. So we have a case of Hillary violating the law, destroying evidence, lying under oath, and nothing happened to her because James Comey, the swamp creature, went out of his way to let her interfere in the investigation as she wished and then decided that intent was reason enough to not bring charges. No, I wouldn’t say anyone came up dry. I’d say she was guilty as sin and was let off by a corrupt government.

As for you being upset about Trump pardoning people, let’s review that a little as well. Those people had actually had charges brought against them and in many cases had gone through trials and were serving sentences or had completed them. In some cases the people were still sitting in jail awaiting trials. Can you say “Right to a Speedy Trial”? So they are doing jail time without even being tried. Many of these people were charged and tried under the law for obstruction that related to destruction of evidence. The SCOTUS overturned that saying it didn’t apply. None of the J6 defendants, that I know of, that were charged under this statute ever had their cases retried. They weren’t supposed to be charged with it, but since they were, the Dems were going to slow walk the reviews to make it right. You know…you said it best:
“Even if they did nothing wrong they can one, trump up charges and two, just the cost of lawyers for years can cost them money they don’t have to fight.”

But beyond that, you are defending Biden using bizarre blanket preemptive pardons and you see nothing wrong with that even though it blocks justice, but Trump signs pardons and you are suddenly outraged. Methinks you believe that Dems should be able to do whatever they want while at the same time you believe that Trump should be punished if he does the same things.

Here’s the facts of Biden’s pardon as quoted by Heather Cox Richardson:

“This morning, hours before he left office, President Joe Biden pardoned several of the targets of MAGA Republicans, including “General Mark A. Milley, Anthony S. Fauci, the Members of Congress and staff who served on the Select Committee, and the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the Select Committee.” Biden clarified that the pardons “should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense.” He noted, “Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.”
But, he said, “These are exceptional circumstances, and I cannot in good conscience do nothing. Even when individuals have done nothing wrong—and in fact have done the right thing—and will ultimately be exonerated, the mere fact of being investigated or prosecuted can irreparably damage reputations and finances.” He later pardoned his siblings and their spouses to protect them from persecution by the incoming president.”

And I’m not staying around to argue meaninglessly.

@seawulf575 This is what he said about Cheney and this was because she sat on the Jan 6 committee and spoke badly about him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw61Ueick6o and you think he should be trusted to follow the laws. You think its funny that I skipped over what you said but I didn’t. I just read how you don’t believe seem to either willingly see or hear what most people hear or believe you can gaslight us.
Trump doesn’t believe in fairness or equality or actual Justice or even freedom beyond his own. Talking about buying Greenland or taking it by force if he has to. Why? Because Greenland has oil. Its not about National Security.
He started the whole thing against Tik Tok being a national security risk while he was still in office and now he wants to take it back after even the Supreme Court agreed it was a National Security Risk. His supreme court. But Musk wants it because it make his friends in China happy and Trump will do whatever Musk wants.

People like Liz Chaney, because she hated Trump, and actively worked against him.

Liz, IS the daughter of one of the most despicable people in history. And the apple, didn’t fall too far from the tree.
She is a villain.
No different, than Bannon, who is just mad Musk has replaced him in Trump’s eyes.
Bannon is pure evil, and part of the older extreme right movement.
These Republicans that hate Trump, usually are just mad they couldn’t kiss up enough to him to get some kushy job they are exponential under qualified for…

That being said, yes, Trump has publicly stated his desire to use the DoD, to pursue his “enemies.”
He is trying to jail Jack Smith.
This is Sadam Hussein shit, Donny!

@Pandora There is direct evidence of Liz Cheney tampering with a witness on the J6 committee. That is illegal. There is evidence that a ton of material and evidence the committee gathered was destroyed and/or encrypted so it could not be used prior to them turning the committee over to the Republican majority. That is illegal based on the same law they were Unconstitutionally charging J6 protestors with.

So is it your stance that those that hate Trump are allowed to break whatever law they want and should not have to face justice for it? Think carefully. If you say yes, you are opening a door that says if you don’t like what someone does, you can take any action against them and should not have to face any accountability. Let’s look at it this way: Biden preemptively and blanket pardoned all the sketchy players from his time in office. Suppose Trump goes on a rampage now, pulling out all stops to make up shit against Dems, using the power of the government to go after them, having his family run scams to enrich themselves (and himself) illegally, and then just blanket pardons everyone before he leaves office. Would you support that? Would you say that was fair and just? After all, he’d just be protecting his family and friends from those horrible vindictive Dems if they took office. It wouldn’t matter if all the crimes were identified or if none of them were, they are now off the hook. Is that the government you want?

You go on and on about how Trump doesn’t believe in equality, justice, or fairness. Yet you cannot actually justify supporting Biden’s pardons if you aren’t willing to grant Trump the same leeway and claim to support equality, justice or fairness.

^“Suppose Trump goes on a rampage now, pulling out all the stops to make up shit against Dems, using the power of the government to go after them, having his famikrun scams to enrich themselves (and himself) illegally.”

Your perception of reality, is 180° off… You come close to describing Trump, perfectly…
It takes great discipline, I imagine, to be SO thoroughly, intentionally obtuse.

And I’ll never stop bringing it up.
You stand up, for a man, who I can only pressume (through Trump’s inaction) agrees with Musk that YOU are a ”contemptible fool,” and an ”unrepentant racist.”..
Not MY words…....

It’s not funny, but you have a butcher knife sticking out of your back, that Trump put there.
How’s that feeling? Itchy?
I bet you’re still clinging to your denial. That’s ALL that keeps you afloat in such threads.
You cling to this denial, even as we publicly watch it sink.

I’m not sure why you didn’t get the message.
J6 2021, Trump invited you all, to come to The Capitol Building, to fight for him.
This time, you weren’t invited…
Trump held his oligarchy celebration inside, with the people he actually cares about.

Where were you guys? Out in the cold, literally?.. Message still not received? You’ve been had, sir.

Your continued servitude and blind loyalty, to Trump, is just sad now…
As always, I thought things like that, would selfishly entertain me. However. It’s not entertaining, watching all of you poor lost souls, still in denial that Trump sold you guys out, before he even got in…

I am sad, for you.
I am genuinely sorry, you were a victim of this man. Especially because, you WILL suffer with the rest of us. And I roughly assume, no matter how bad Trump fucks up, you’re going to be the beaten wife, and take him back. Every time.
Have SOME self respect, Wulf…

^and once again you miss the entire point, pull random words out of context and then run crazy with them. Slow down, breathe. You just went on a completely unrelated rant with all the craziness you have in your head. Read, contemplate, try to understand and then comment on that which was written. Don’t see some words and then jump into wild rants that make no sense. It really does make you look foolish and a bit unhinged. Well…a lot unhinged.

^Nah. I’ve been repeating, the same thing.
And you have dodged it, EVERY TIME.
The lifelong criminal you blindly support, apparently agrees that YOU (not me,) as a Trump voter, are a ”contemptible fool,” AND, an ”unrepentant racist.”

I’ve been waiting, for you to address this.

Others are curious about your thoughts, on Musk giving the ol’ Hitler salute (twice,) during Trump’s inauguration…
This is now the 3rd thread, I’ve put these balls in your court….

You have been pushing, for Trump’s election.
Now that he’s in off, he’s changing his agenda, he’s now literally owned by Elon (most expect him to have an office at The Whitehouse.)
He deliberately made sure there were no Jerry Springer/Trumpers, messing up HIS big moment, at his inauguration.
He held an oligarchy meeting, no sheep allowed. And yall showed up, and I’ve heard it was less than accommodating for the average sheep.
So while you sheep are out in the cold, he’s inside The Capitol Building, with THE wealthiest most important people, publicly showing how bad the corruption is, and how blatant he seems to be about it.
He made sure, to lie about himself, and others in the room, even though he won. The way
Musk made that Hitler salute, would have made Hitler proud.
And he is planning on using OUR military, against US!
Do you have anything to say, about these issues I keep bringing you in multiple threads?

You started this thread, and it IS in General, bit I’ve been chasing you over this, and I’d like a response. I apologize for bringing it up here, but when you get to crowing about Trump, I just have to remind you of these subjects….

@MrGrimm888 You keep repeating it but haven’t given a single citation to show where it came from. Therefore I am left with assuming it is more of your crazy rants about Trump. Show me the citation and I will then do more research to get to the source (or as close as possible) to find out what was actually said and what the context was. After that I will give you an answer. If you don’t want to give a citation, then I will assume you are out to lunch with TDS.

What are “Jerry Springer/Trumpers”? Jerry Springer is dead, and he was a democrat.

LMAO at the thought of Trump deliberately trying to prevent any dead democrats from attending his inauguration.

^Trumpers ARE Jerry Springer audiences. They are the exact same.
They enjoy chanting “whore,” and looking down on people, because they themselves are a dumpster fire.
Those same people, who couldn’t miss JS, are now Trumpers.
Similar to someone who only posts intended insult, without their own content.
Your ignorance, doesn’t insult me.

Wulf. Thank you, for solidifying your cowardice, and bias, SO publicly. I suppose that will have to do.
Since Musk’s salute has been on EVERY media outlet, I’m sure it has taken every bit of your powers of denial, to avoid it.

Unfortunately. Your response also suggests to me, that you support the former Nazi agenda, which the people you support have made clear, are the same agenda.

”Contemptible fools,” and ”unrepentant racists,” I guess was spot on.

Well. I guess it help Fluther’s diversity, to have an admitted Nazi here…

^Still no citation, just rant.

^Just a thank you, sir. I ranted earlier.

^everything you say on almost every topic quickly devolves into a “Hate Trump” rant. In this iteration of rants, you keep assigning a quote to President Trump yet when pressed for a citation, you quickly move into other rants. Until you produce a citation for your quote, you aren’t to be taken seriously. Producing a citation will at least show you actually believe what you are saying and aren’t suffering a psychotic break.

^You’re the one, that won’t let it go.
I got you to say EXACTLY what I wanted to hear.
Like Trump, I’ve no use for you now. Run along and play now…

@MrGrimm888 Trumpers are Jerry Springer watchers? I’d like to see your source on that because The Jerry Springer show was one of the least conservative shows in the history of television.

@cheebdragon Don’t hold your breath. @MrGrimm888 Doesn’t supply citations to back up his claims. He just spews whatever he wants that he thinks will support his bubble reality.