How do Arabs in Michigan feel now that the adjudicated rapist has stated that he wants to send in the US military to take over Gaza and that all Palestinians should leave?

Probably the same as they did when the Biden administration was turning Gaza into a pile of rubble and bodies.

Now that it’s Trump doing the evil shit, I’m curious if Dem voters will suddenly start caring about international law, human rights, and murder. I can only hope that they supported ethnic cleansing, mass murder, killing of doctors, complete destruction of infrastructure, murder of journalists, starvation, etc because they didn’t want to oppose the party/admin that was doing it. Let’s hope we see some opposition.

But it’s important to point out that Trump’s complete disregard for international law – including sitting with a war criminal to explicitly discuss ethnic cleansing is taking place after the Biden admin implemented laws that restrict freedom of speech, a demonization of protest, banning media, and a complete integration of US college system into an arm of radical right-wing imperialism, an elimination of the concept of antisemitism, normalization of genocide, etc. We’re now having to deal with the consequences of this destruction.

I also wonder what Dem voters think about the fact that it was more important to commit genocide than to win an election.

I have said it before – there is no coming back from this.

Once you make it to America, you join the bubble and forget about the outside world. Even non-immigrants do it.

Common survival tactic: “I made it, time to live my life.”

Obvious disclaimer that I’m not speaking for arabs, just pointing out the common trope of “I got mine, screw everyone else.” See the example of cuban immigrants coming to florida and immediately turning republican and being against immigration etc.

I wonder too and I wonder how all those are so worried about the ballooning debt crisis think Trump plans to pay for a takeover of a country that has been reduced to rubble and its people decimated. Oh yeah, don’t let the people back – that’s a great idea.

I will be shocked if we’re not at war in the next 4 years.

@hat ”
Probably the same as they did when the Biden administration was turning Gaza into a pile of rubble and bodies.”

Sure, now. But they obviously saw something in the rapist, maybe thinking that somehow he will be more sympathetic? I just don’t understand.

@Caravanfan I think they were pissed off that Harris didn’t say enough about Palestinian rights. I don’t know why they thought Trump would be better though.

The Israeli far right would like nothing better. They probably think “Kick the vermin out, so we can build an expensive hotel”

@hat, The big difference is Dems wouldn’t threaten to send them back first and then level it out. Watch. This is going to be his next go too. Send them all back to the countries they lived in. Even the ones that came from countries like Afghanistan after helping out American soldiers and risk their lives and will be assassinated when they return home.

@janbb Sure. I understand why they voted for Harris over the rapist, but what I’m wondering is how they feel now? (And yes, I realize that every individual is different. It’s a generalized question about a voting block)

I am not one to blame voters when there are little to no options to vote for. And I certainly would never judge people who don’t vote for the people who happen to be actively murdering their families. Remember – the whole “uncommitted” voters were begging for a reason to vote for Harris. Everyone was waiting for her to even say that she would change things. It didn’t matter if she was lying. But instead she promised to continue to murder their families.

@Caravanfan I think you’re mistaken. Didn’t Michigan go for Trump? I’m saying they didn’t like Harris.

I would think they feel similar to the Pro-Israel Zionist Democrats who supported Israel as it essentially strategized to get Trump into office, who could have joined forces with groups like Jewish Voice for Peace and forced the Democratic leadership into rational policies to end the genocide that would have resulted in Kamala’s victory. But maybe they don’t see it that way?

I guess Trump is just seeing more commercial real estate possibilities for his firm.

@janbb Yes, Michigan went for Trump. That’s my point.

@Caravanfan I know that is your main point but your comment 5 above this doesn’t read that way.

Great question.

They don’t care. They voted, or didn’t vote, on ONE issue. Fuck anyone else who might get hurt or killed in the process.

There may not be anymore prisoners in Gaza released because of the TRASH in the White House, trump wants to open a resort in his name, and maybe have it go bankrupt like so many of real estate deals like casinos in Atlantic City.

Read that again TRUMP single handedly ended the release of prisoners. . . . from Gaza ! !

I guess they feel somewhat powerless. I also assume they might feel it doesn’t matter much either way. I hope they feel glad to be in the US. They trekked all the way over here to a majority Christian country leaving their countries. I think that means they know there are big problems in the ME and appreciate the life they can have here.

My guess is a lot of them didn’t vote or maybe voted for Jill Stein or wrote in someone if Michigan has that option. Not all of them obviously. I would guess there were still Michigan Arabs voting Democrat. Jill stein did get a higher than average percentage of votes in Dearborn where the Arab population is significant.

Keep in mind the majority of the Arabs in MI are not Palestinians, but there are Palestinians there. Most are Lebanese if that hasn’t changed in recent years. Probably most of the Lebanese are Christian and they most likely view the Muslim fanatics (not to be confused with the average Muslim) as imperialists trying to take over the ME and the world. Even so Dearborn does have a large Muslim Population.

If they chose not to vote for Harris then they helped Trump get elected, just like the Bernie Bros who wouldn’t vote for Hillary. Even if the percentage wasn’t enough to actually change the election result, it is still a risk they were willing to take.

What an embarrassment he is. Even Nixon did less to make me feel humiliated by my president. I never expected to look on the stars and stripes and feel ashamed.

I have nothing to add other than that I agree with everything @hat said. And I will reiterate “let’s hope we see some opposition.” Let’s hope now that Trump is overseeing the ethnic cleansing of Gaza that we might see some Democrats more openly opposed it.

@jan. You’re right. It was a typo

Wouldn’t that technically mean the US were invading Israel? Not sure that’s a good idea. Unless you need to another global was on terror to prop up military spending.

To answer your original question. I imagine “A plague on both your houses” would cover it.

Well gee, they probably don’t see him as an adjudicated rapist since he isn’t one. That lie doesn’t get more convincing the more you say it.

@seawulf575 You shoot like a storm trooper. It’s a General question, do address the point. (Look up the big words when you don’t understand them)

(Waiting for the inevitable “I know you are but what am I?” rejoinder.)

We currently have a broken political system. The partisan split is what is creating all this turmoil along with an autocratic President.
I think everyone in this country is at risk shy or the oligarchs that kiss his ring.

What Trump said about Gaza was hypocritical of what he is saying about the immigrants coming to this country in fear of the governments they are fleeing. The left hand and the right hand never speak.

@canidmajor It is a general question. But it still has to abide by Fluther standards. Putting false and misleading statements into the question does not meet those standards on many fronts. I did flag this question as well. Not that I expect the biased moderators to send it back for editing. But starting the question with complete bullshit isn’t looking for honest discussion. It is trying to make a point and is only looking for equally dishonest answers.

@seawulf575: ”Trump may have just met with a wanted war criminal and announced that the US was going to ethnically cleanse Gaza, but come on – he’s not a rapist.”

@hat So you are admitting that putting in the statement about “adjudicated rapist” is complete bullshit that has no purpose in this question?

Trump also raped and beat a 13-year old girl at Epstein’s, because sometimes just raping a 13-year-old girl isn’t evil enough, you just have to rough her up too.

@gorillapaws AND your own article shows he wasn’t found guilty of Rape. I could claim you raped someone…does that make you a rapist? I could say you beat me up…does that make it fact? Claiming someone did something doesn’t make it fact. It is an allegation. Those are wrong all the time.

Facts matter. President Trump was never charged with rape. He was never tried for rape. He was accused of it in a civil lawsuit and even that jury said he wasn’t guilty of rape. To continue pushing that narrative is nothing more than defamation.

@seawulf575 Because things didn’t actually happen unless they’re found guilty… So Bill Clinton never had sex with minors on Epstein’s Island? You and I both know he did. And Biden never sexually assaulted his staffer Tara Reade, despite all of the evidence showing he did?

Can we agree to remove the word “adjudicated” and just call him a pussy grabber? Because he admits to that.

The rapist was found liable for sexual assault, and when he tried to use that verdict to sue his victim for defamation for using the word rape, he lost that case because what he did qualifies as rape in other jurisdictions and in general parlance. He is therefore an adjudicated rapist. That is a fact. That is reality. And reality does not change just because the fascists declare it changed.

@gorillapaws I don’t know if Clinton had sex with minors on Epstein’s Island. It was always covered up so there is no evidence of it. So I don’t call him a pedophile. Same with Biden and Tara Reide…you’ve never seen me refer to him as the rapist-in-chief because of a claim. You also have to remember that while you all were rushing to brand Trump with things like this, you completely ignored, deflected, and even tried victim shaming those in the cases you just mentioned. Do I believe Clinton and Biden did these things? Yep. But since they were never convicted of any of them I don’t put the tag on them. That’s the difference between me and the lefties on these pages. Well, one of the difference.

@ragingloli Being denied a case is not an adjudication that makes him a rapist. What that decision said was that while he wasn’t convicted of rape, the term is fairly general and some places would conflate sexual assault with rape so the case doesn’t hold much weight. The judge looking at his defamation case did not say he was a rapist so there is no decision on that matter, just the semantics piece of it. But the fact is, he was found not-guilty by a jury in a jurisdiction where the criteria for rape were explained to them.. So no, he is not an adjudicated rapist.

@jca2 No. I do it as a favor to @seawulf575 so that he has a straw man to hit while ignoring the real question.

I saw a meme on FB about Trump Tower Gaza.

I believe its more shock and awe like the tariffs so the ceasefire gets handled. All of them were pissed by his idea, which I believe was the point. It’s chess not checkers.

*Also unless you’re a part of that race/culture, who are we to speak for Arabs.

“It’s chess not checkers.”

Actually guffaw laugh out loud wiping my eyes after reading this comment.

@Caravanfan Yeah I imagine that’s true. Perhaps read @hat post a few more times.

Face it Trump wants to open up a Mediterranean Resort with no locals – - just rich people paying HIM to stay at a Middle Eastern Mar-A-Lago

Gaza Golf course

Trump says he wants to do a lot of things. He also likes to gas up the strongmen he admires. Depopulating Gaza is of course Netanyahu’s goal, and has been all along. But with nowhere else for Palestinians to go (no, they cannot simply “go to Egypt”), what Trump wants to do is unlikely to be accomplished without additional mass killing. I’m all for criticizing Trump, but what he says he wants to do and what actually ends up happening are two different things. In either case, the future does not look good for Gazans.

To the OP, they gambled things might be better if Harris lost. It could be some of them are banging their heads on the wall today.

^ Can we stop this. There were probably 2 or 3 people who were confused enough to vote for Trump with the idea that he would be less genocidal than Biden.

And stop blaming people for not voting for your preferred mass murderer. If anything, you’re just admitting that Trump and Biden are both deadly for Gaza. Biden did the bombing and murdering. Trump is promising to do more.

Remember – Harris had the same polling that we all did, and knew that unless she staked out an anti-genocidal position on Gaza, she would hand the presidency to Trump. We know what she chose.

People in Dearborn are the victims of the very system that you support. And if everyone in Dearborn and the entire state had voted for Harris, the election would still would have gone to Trump.

This stuff isn’t as difficult as you make it out to be. If we want an alternative to Trump/Republican party, we need to demand or create an alternative. Give people something to vote for.

@hat Are you saying most people from West Asia living in the US emigrated because of Israel or US policy?

@Demosthenes what he says he wants to do and what actually ends up happening are two different things. In either case, the future does not look good for Gazans. I agree with this. At this point, what would ideally be done for the people of Gaza? A lot of buildings are destroyed. Do you feel they should stay in Gaza in temporary type shelter? Or, leave Gaza? If a country will take them in and get them started back on a road to normalcy for themselves and especially their children. I’m not asking if it’s fair or right that Gaza has been so destroyed, bit just asking at this point.

Arabs in the US left West Asia. My guess is a lot of them would tell Gazans to leave if they have an offer of a safer country where they have opportunity for themselves and their children.

@JCA2 No, @Caravanfan Has TDS and cannot help himself when he uses false terms. It is his TDS.

Well, as has been pointed out, none of can speak for The Arab-Americans in Michigan. My guess is that many people who voted for Trump are surprised at what they are and are not getting – and others are delighted.

Sorry for my typos.

@janbb I agree with you we can’t know. I wonder if there are some youtube interviews.

Someone has KTAS – - – Kissing Trump’s ASS Syndrome !

His initials Fucking ASSHOLE !

@hat Fair enough. I’m not blaming anybody, and I thought I made it clear that I do not blame them for not voting for Biden. My question was more about how they feel NOW. Are they happy about the rapist’s plan to forcibly move Palestinians out of Gaza to leave room for a Trump hotel?

I don’t see how anyone can be ok with Trump building in Gaza.

I actually have said things like Gaza could have been a beautiful city by the sea for the Palestinian people, but Trump taking advantage of what he sees as a real estate opportunity makes me sick. Reminds me of Cheney and Halliburton.

@JLeslie The right wing Israelis would be be absolutely overjoyed with it. Kick all the Arabs out of Gaza and develop that strip with Israeli and American money and make it into a big resort with Club Meds and everything. The Palestinians would be allowed to come back as servants. Makes perfect sense from their point of view. The only limiting factor would be water.

@hat The problem is you also support Hamas who are mass murderers and would be mass slaughterers if given the chance.

I don’t think I ever read you condemn Hamas. Nor those colleges and university students protesting for Palestinians.

All Palestinians who support Hamas, especially the parents of those ypung innocents killed deserve their pain.

@Caravanfan I completely agree. I guess I was still thinking about the Arabs here and other people who are sympathetic to the people who live in Gaza.

There are Arabs who disagree with how the Palestinians have handled the last 75 years, and most recently Oct 7th, which people might not realize, but I think most Arabs don’t want the Palestinians to lose more land.

I was on the beach in Gaza when it was (even more) controlled by israel at some point after the 6 Day War.

@janbb Do you think it was better then? Do you think the Gazans weren’t free to do as they pleased then?

@mazingerz88 Go easy on @hat. He’s never expressed support for the October 7th massacre. I’m generally a pro-Israel Jew and I totally agree with him on this particular point.

^hat doesn’t need coddling.

@jonsblond I know he doesn’t. But I asked the original question and I don’t want it to degenerate any further.

@JLeslie No I don’t think it was better for them although they weren’t being bombed and murdered.

@janbb I’ve heard Israelis say they used to go to Gaza for shopping and a day at the beach, restaurants. I assumed Palestinians could go into Israel too, but that might be a bad assumption.

@mazingerz88 Because that’s not a problem and it doesn’t matter.

I thought this sort of conversation ended following the death of Stalin.

@Demosthenes Supporting Hamas is not a problem and it doesn’t matter? Good for you.

Here’s a CNN post about Arabs in Dearborn’s reaction to Trump’s concept of a plan to take over and ethnically cleanse Gaza.

@janbb That’s obviously a cherry picked report, but it sort of answers my question.

I just saw a video from a local Detroit channel. They reported that a lot of Arabs who voted for Trump are upset and one group is changing their name from Arab Americans for Trump now calling themselves Arab Americans for Peace. The Publisher of the Arab American News is in a state of disbelief. He said it is “the most unimaginable thing.” He didn’t vote for Trump, but is receiving calls from Arabs saying they were fooled by Trump.

Trump probably doesn’t care because he can’t run for reelection anyway.

@JLeslie the face-eating leopards are having a feast.

Another problem with this question, besides claiming lies, is that I didn’t get from Trump’s statement the same left-wing talking point I am hearing. He said the Gaza is largely uninhabitable and that people can’t go back there. Busted up buildings, no electricity, no running water, no sewage…it is not fit for humans. He then goes on to suggest that other of the nearby Muslim nations take in the refugees for the period needed to rebuild Gaza and then let them go back. He is suggesting a multi-national plan for rebuilding it better than it was including with increased jobs, etc. It isn’t “Trump wants to build a resort for himself in Gaza”. That is idiotic to start with. Think about it: you are talking about an area that has been plagued with war, terrorism, and destruction for the past 75 years…maybe longer. Who would want to go to a resort there? They don’t even have ground water that is fit to drink. A resort there would be a bad investment. But there are many things that could be done to make it habitable and prosperous.

@seawulf575 that is complete and utter bullshit. Israel has the same water issues as Gaza and they do fine. It’s just a matter of building infrastructure.

@Caravanfan Actually, it isn’t bullshit. There is two aquifers under Gaza. One of them is extremely contaminated due to pollution from the people. The other one is right by the Mediterranean Sea. They put so much stress on this aquifer and dragged the ground water down so far that it changed the underground hydraulics, resulting in sea water (salty) back filling into the aquifer, making it no longer potable. Israel, on the other hand, does several different things for its water. They use desalination plants to provide about a third of it, but they have several other sources including the Jordan river and some of its offshoots. Israel has a surplus of water and was supplying the Gaza with drinking water…before Hamas attacked, anyway. This was all discussed during a thread where one of the jellies (I believe it was @gorillapaws) asked about flooding the tunnels under Gaza. It was a possibility being discussed as part of the retaliation for the Oct 7th attack. The jelly was worried about pumping sea water into the tunnels contaminating the ground water. I did the research at that time and found out all about the drinking water aquifers.

Can Gaza build desalinization plants? Sure. Could they build purification plants to deal with the ground water issues? Sure. But their elected officials would have to make it a priority. Hamas, those elected officials, don’t make it a priority. They get assistance and buy weapons to attack Israel with instead of sinking it into infrastructure.

@seawulf575 Gaza isn’t allowed to import advanced machinery to build high tech desalination plants. I don’ know if you live in a cave or what, but Israel controls everything coming into and out of Gaza that isn’t smuggled in. The reason they built those tunnels is because Israel can and does destroy anything it wants above the surface. They fly drones constantly. It is an occupation. Investing in subterranean infrastructure is the only sane approach in such a situation. Do you understand that Israel has controlled food entering Gaza to the calorie for over.a decade?

Yes. I thought it was a rational strategy to use fresh water to flood the Hamas tunnels to not create an ecological disaster and potentially contaminate the aquifers for generations by using salt water instead. It seems like it would have saved a hell of a lot of money and innocent lives. But the point was to kill the civilians and take the land. It’s been the point since the early 1900’s. You can read about it in the journals of the founders of Zionism or in the books by Israeli Historians like “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.”

@gorillapaws And on that last question, I showed you that Gaza had already destroyed their aquifers. It wasn’t Israel. And you still haven’t denounced Hamas…ever. You rant about Israel being the overseers of Gaza. Why is that? Go back in time. Since 1948, the Arab states have initiated almost 100% of the violence between them and Israel. Israel even captured the Gaza strip and the West Bank following one of these events. They gave up these areas to the Arabs later as part of peace negotiations in the area. They were willing to give these areas up which puts a pin in your claim they want the land. And what came of that peace effort? They have been attacked again and again. They let Gazans elect their own leaders. They elected Hamas, a group whose charter calls for the genocide of Israelis and the elimination of the Israeli state. You never can admit that.

In the end, you continue to pump out the hot air that is meaningless since you can’t hold Hamas, or any of the Arab groups for that matter, accountable for their actions in the region.

@gorillapaws Now you are telling lies about @gorillapaws. You are my favorite person for throwing up straw men in your posts.

Correction, obviously, I meant to tag @seawulf575 in my prior post.

@Caravanfan I find it hilarious that every time I state facts you suddenly tote out “You are putting out straw man posts!” Grow up. It wasn’t a strawman. You think it is a weak argument and easily refuted, yet you don’t actually refute it. Because nothing I wrote was false. It was all verifiable fact. But please, show us all how smart you are: refute it.

No, I don’t expect you to refute it since you can’t. What I expect now is for you to deflect and try to make it all about me again. Anything other than a refutation shows me you are just a troll.

@seawulf575 Sure it was, by definition. You said to @gorillapaws “And you still haven’t denounced Hamas…ever. ”. That’s a straw man, and it sets up Gorilla for having to defend himself instead of debating the main point. And it’s also a lie. So you did a twofer—a lie and a straw man.

@Caravanfan It is not a strawman. Claiming something never happened is not a strawman. If it did happen then he easily shows me where he did and I am just plain wrong. What you are expecting is for me to accept he is right without question. That is delusional. Besides, I have asked him numerous times on numerous threads to denounce them…to at least acknowledge they started the war with Israel and they built the tunnels under the hospitals. He won’t do it. So it isn’t a strawman, it is that he supports terrorists.

Also, he isn’t debating the main point. The main point, you original question, is a lie as well in a number of ways. So YOU are the one making up strawman arguments and lies and then getting mad when you are called on them.

^^don’t you ever just get tired of answering back.

^^ my same thoughts on almost every post.

Blah Blah Blah Blah @seawulf575

@seawulf575 “Besides, I have asked him numerous times on numerous threads to denounce them…to at least acknowledge they started the war with Israel and they built the tunnels under the hospitals. He won’t do it.”

Maybe he just doesn’t like you.

@Caravanfan Him not liking me doesn’t make my statement of him not denouncing Hamas a strawman. Now YOU are making up the strawman arguments. Isn’t it fun how that works? But as expected, you make claims about me which I refute and you fall to a personal attack. That’s a sign of a weak mind, sir.

^^^^ Blah Blah, insult, Blah, insult, blah

@seawulf575
“Him not liking me doesn’t make my statement of him not denouncing Hamas a strawman.”

Sure it does, by definition. From Wikipedia: “A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.[1] ”

My question was about how Arabs in Michigan feel after the rapist stated that he wants to send US Troops to Gaza to develop it and that Palestinians need to leave to go to Egypt, Jordan or wherever. Your answer was to attack @gorillapaws on a lie that he has never denounced Hamas. You are forcing Gorilla to defend himself (which I’m doing for him) and continue not discussing the original post. Ipso facto: straw man.

You are complaining that I keep calling you on your strawman arguments. Well, if you quit using them, I’ll quit calling you out. Pretty simple solution.

Yesterday I saw a report about how the Venezuelans in Florida who supported Trump are very upset Trump is revoking some types of temporary visas and deporting Latin Americans from FL. Many of them who couldn’t vote, still were very vocal on social media and went to Trump rallies, and showed support in other ways before the election. So, among many Venezuelan families there are family members who did vote for Trump or couldn’t but helped promote Trump.

They are using that word “criminal” again in a variety of ways. In the report the Venezuelans supported deporting gang members, murderers, and thieves, they didn’t think criminal would be applied to simply crossing the border.

Mental health. Lol.