Did Trump accidentally let slip that the death toll in Gaza is around 500k Palestinians?

I don’t think Trump or anyone else knows just how many Palestinians are buried in the rubble of Gaza or how many vulnerable people continue to die each day in the land that they consider home.

Really? More propaganda? I don’t see a link for anything Trump said. But even if he did, so what? You are completely ignoring Hamas’ culpability in everything. Stop it. “Israel destroyed healthcare facilities!”...would those be the healthcare facilities that Hamas builds their tunnels and organization areas under? You absolutely refuse to admit that Hamas started this whole thing or that they use Palestinians as human shields. Stop the insanity. Until you can hold Hamas accountable for their wrongdoings, you are nothing but propaganda hot air.

@seawulf575 Here’s a right wing Israeli source. Why do you think Trump used the numbers 1.7 or 1.8 million Palestinians?

Nah. Why would you trust Trump to be accurate? Plus, you don’t need to move everyone out of Gaza to build it back up. You need people who will be working there.

How much of Gaza is destroyed? I have no idea, I’m genuinely asking. There is likely a percentage of buildings and infrastructure still safe and working.

My GUESS is he was told 1.8 million is the number of people needed to be taken in by other countries if he wanted to try to negotiate safe harbor for them.

I say this often: I think Trump just repeats the last thing he heard. He could have heard it from anyone.

Trump isn’t a war monger from what I can tell, he probably really thinks it will help the Gazans. I realize he is more focused on helping Netanyahu and Israel, and especially focused on making money and money for his friends, and building towers with his name on it. He probably wants to change the name of Gaza to Trump City.

Years ago I saw an interview with Trump. He said he likes seeing his name on buildings. He sees it as his legacy, his mark on the world. He likes the idea of when he is dead his name will still be there.

@JLeslie How many Palestinians do you think are alive in Gaza? Also building resorts is a good way to hide evidence of genocide.

@gorillapaws As I said, it doesn’t really matter. Are you willing to condemn Hamas and call them out for their part in the entire situation?

@gorillapaws I have no guess as to how many were killed or are still alive in Gaza. From what I understand even the authorities in Gaza are reporting around 45,000 deaths not 500,000. I would say there will never be perfect knowledge of how many, but I don’t think it will be off by 400,000.

The last number I read was 50,000 dead which is horrifying enough.

Maybe 50,000 now, my 45,000 could easily be an old number.

nothing Trump says can be construed as anything near the truth. We all know this.

Do those numbers include indirect deaths? e.g. if Bob needs dialysis to survive and all of the dialysis machines are destroyed and Bob dies of renal failure, do you believe he is counted in the statistics you’re referencing? Or if Bob drinks dirty water in a tent camp and dies from Diarrhoeal Disease do you believe he is counted in those statistics?

@seawulf575 “it doesn’t really matter.”

Here’s why that matters. During the Holocaust (the worst genocide in human history by many accounts), my understanding is that about 66% of the European Jewish population was killed between roughly Feb of 1933 and April of 1945. That’s about 147 months of genocide and if we do the math, we can conclude that the mean rate of population extermination as a percentage that Hitler achieved was the nauseatingly large number of about 0.45%. If the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza both directly and indirectly are around half a million as this slip up may indicate, that would mean that Israel managed to kill between about 1.36%-1.63% of Gaza’s population per month in the 15 months following October 7th. That’s between 3x – 3.6x of what Hitler was doing on average as a percent of the population during the Holocaust (there were spikes and locations that were much higher, and other times and locations that were much lower).

I’m not making the case that this is worse than the Holocaust, but that people need to recognize the scale and gravity of what we’re talking about and why groups like Amnesty International are using terms like “genocide” to describe the situation.

@gorillapaws And you are still avoiding holding Hamas accountable for anything. Everything you are saying is complete bullshit since you can’t be honest.

Now you are trying to compare Gaza to the Holocaust. Okay, let’s do that. Germany rounded up Jews to ship them off for forced labor and to be murdered. What did the Jews do to earn this? Nothing…Hitler didn’t like them. Now let’s move to Gaza. A whole bunch of Palestinians in Gaza got killed when Israel attacked Gaza. What did those in Gaza do to earn this? The civilians didn’t really do anything. The elected leadership of Gaza (who have stopped any future elections that might displace them) invaded Israel, killing a bunch of people and taking a bunch of hostages. Those same elected leaders had built tunnels to hide in with hubs under the 26 hospitals and 52 medical centers, This puts civilians between them and anyone looking to get to them…you know…making the population human shields.

In other words, your comparison is bullshit because you can’t be honest and denounce Hamas, a known terrorist organization that even other Muslim nations don’t like. So one might ask why you are supporting terrorists so vehemently?

@seawulf575 “What did the Jews do to earn this? Nothing”

Are you claiming that if the Jews had committed acts of violence against the Germans, the Holocaust would have been justified? Even hiding among the civilian Jewish population in the ghettos?

Doubtful it was an accident. Aljazeera.com reports 61 709 including the rubble dead (estimated at 12,000. )

@gorillapaws If the Jews had done something to warrant retaliation, your analogy would have been closer. And you are still avoiding holding Hamas accountable. Why do you support terrorists?

“Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed—in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical—and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

@Forever_Free I’m assuming you are directing that at @gorillapaws. I’m the one bringing the reality. But of course I know you are trying to direct it at me since that is the sort of person you are. So let me ask you then: since you think I’m bringing the fantasy…you believe Israel just instigated everything and went from helping the people in Gaza to just blatantly attacking them (I can assume that since you believe everything else to be a fantasy). So let me ask you: why do you support terrorists? Why can’t you admit any wrongdoing by Hamas at all? That they caused all the strife and mayhem for the past 16 months?

(I’m really assuming you will do like your idol @gorillapaws and not answer and try deflecting. But with you, you will just try another personal shot at me).

@seawulf575 Please don’t be so narcissistic.

It is a quote relevant today exactly as it was stated in 1943 directed toward Hitler.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer on the “Stupidity” That Led to Hitler’s Third Reich

@gorillapaws I would assume it includes indirect deaths. Natural disasters and wars usually do count them. There probably there is an overcount of deaths from the war, people who would have died anyway (I hesitate to use the word overcount, but I’m hoping you understand my meaning). At the same time it’s likely an undercount concurrently is happening, because there likely are poor people and isolated people who not being counted because no one realizes they are missing.

@JLeslie I don’t believe the current death toll captures excess mortality as a result of the conflict. In many wars this figure is many times higher than direct deaths.

@seawulf575 The Jews bravely fought the Germans and were among the Jewish civilian population in the Ghettos. So you think Hitler was justified in his actions? or maybe there are no justifications for genocide? Ever. Full stop. And when a terrorist digs a hole under a hospital, you send robots or soldiers or dogs into the hole and kill the terrorists, you don’t blow up the hospital and ignore the terrorist.

Sorry for the long run-on sentence at the beginning:

If Jews had done something against the Germans like Oct 7th, and if the Jews at the time had their own territory that didn’t allow Germans to live there, and if the Germans retaliated by declaring war and trying to disable the Jews from doing such a heinous act again by destroying buildings and killing 50,000 of 2million people in the territory (2.5%) I think history would judge the retaliation as too much, but some retaliation would have been likely understood.

Keep in mind a percentage of the 2.5% were not innocent, but actually committed and planned murders, rape, and some are actual soldiers for Hamas. Many of them help set off rockets almost daily into Israel. If Germany had actually tried to warn innocent Jews to move out of areas they were going to bomb the rest of the world would have thought it very unusual during a war and heralded it as a good effort to reduce casualties.

The Hitler machine murdered all innocent people who never tried to harm Germans or their allies. The Jewish people in Europe were just living in those countries as citizens or not even given citizenship as second class in some countries.

Over 60% of the Jews in Europe were murdered.

Albania
Jewish population in 1937: approximately 200
Deaths: unknown

Austria
Jewish population of Austria in 1938: 185,026
Deaths: 65,459

Belgium
Jewish population of Belgium in 1939: 90,000
Deaths: 24,387

Bulgaria
Jewish population of Bulgaria in 1937: 50,000
Deaths: unknown

Czechoslovakia
Jewish population of Czechoslovakia in 1921: 354,000
Deaths: 260,000

Sudetenland
Jewish population in 1939: 2,363
Deaths: at least 360

Bohemia-Moravia
Jewish population in 1930: 117,551
Deaths: 77,297

Slovakia
Jewish population in 1940: 88,951
Deaths: approximately 60,000

Hungarian-occupied Southern Slovakia and Subcarpathian Rus
Jewish population in 1939: 142,000–148,000
Deaths: 114,000–120,000

Denmark
Jewish population of Denmark in 1937: 7,500
Deaths: 52–116

Estonia
Jewish population of Estonia in 1937: 4,500
Deaths: 963

France
Jewish population of France in 1937: 300,000–330,000
Deaths: 72,900–74,000

Germany
Jewish population of Germany in 1939: 237,723
Deaths: 165,200

Greece
Jewish population of Greece in 1941: 71,611
Deaths: 58,800–65,000

Bulgarian-Occupied Thrace
Deaths: 4,221

Hungary
Jewish population of Hungary in 1937: 490,621
Deaths: 297,621

Hungary (borders of 1941)
Jewish population: 825,007
Deaths: 564,507

Italy
Jewish population of Italy in 1938: 58,412

Jewish population in German-occupied Italy: approximately 43,000
Deaths: 7,858

Latvia
Jewish population of Latvia in 1939: 93,479
Deaths: 70,000

Lithuania
Jewish population of Lithuania in 1937: 153,000
Deaths: 130,000

Luxembourg
Jewish population of Luxembourg in May 1940: 3,500–5,000
Deaths: 1,200

Netherlands
Jewish population of the Netherlands in May 1940: 140,245
Deaths: 102,000

Norway
Jewish population of Norway in April 1940: approximately 1,800
Deaths: at least 758

Poland
Jewish population of Poland in 1937: 3,350,000
Deaths: 2,770,000–3,000,000

Romania
Jewish population of Romania in 1930: 756,930
Deaths: 211,214–260,000

Hungarian-occupied Northern Transylvania
Deaths: 90,295

Bessarabia and Bukovina
Jewish population in 1930: 314,000
Jewish population in 1941: 185,000
Deaths: 103,919–130,000

Soviet Union
Jewish population of the Soviet Union in 1939: 3,028,538
Deaths: approximately 1,340,000

Yugoslavia
Jewish population of Yugoslavia in 1941: 82,242
Deaths: 67,228

Slovenia (German-occupied)
Jewish population in 1937: 1,500
Deaths: 1,300

Serbia with Banat and Sandžak (German-occupied)
Jewish population in 1937: 17,200
Deaths 15,060

Macedonia (Bulgarian-occupied)
Jewish population in 1941: 7,762
Deaths: 6,982

Pirot, Serbia (Bulgarian-occupied)
Deaths: 140

Albanian-annexed Kosovo
Jewish population in 1937: 550
Deaths: 210

Croatia with Dalmatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina
Jewish population in 1937: 39,400
Deaths: 30,148

Montenegro (German-occupied)
Jewish population in 1937: 30
Deaths: 28

Backa and Baranja (Hungarian-annexed)
Jewish population in 1937: 16,000
Deaths: 13,500

Source: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/jewish-losses-during-the-holocaust-by-country

Doesn’t even include deaths in the Middle East from rising hate and association with Hitler.

Don’t compare to the Holocaust, because you can’t. Instead try to get into the frame of mind of the Israeli people whose families were slaughtered in numbers so big that it will NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Jews have been innocently targeted over and over in history.

The Jews and Palestinians have a shit ton in common. They BOTH have suffered horrible losses. Family, land, material items, and the only way to make it better is to understand both sides and want both to live well and move forward.

It’s not a competition, stop comparing to the Holocaust, that is a losing argument.

Every innocent life matters.

Right now we have war monger leaders; Hamas and Bibi is a bit of a war monger too.

Wulfie, yeah Hamas are scum bags and should be accountable for any crimes they committed, but doing so does that make it fine for Israel to level those hospitals, there had to be a better way to root out Hamas without killing a shitload of innocent civilians or is that alright with you.

@gorillapaws Yes, the Jews fought Germany…after Hitler started rounding them up. At that point they were fighting a losing battle. You are making my point more every word you say. And you STILL can’t denounce Hamas. You are supporting terrorists! What does that say about you? I know what it says to me. It says you are on a par with people that pull a surprise attack on their neighbors, kill men, women, and children, take more hostage and then run back to your own house to hide behind your people.

@SQUEEKY2 Yes, Hamas are scum bags. You are half-way there. Now let’s face the reality of the rest of it. Why did Israel start hitting hospitals? Why did they send troops into Gaza? They were living peacefully with Gaza before Oct 7. So every claim of Israel wanting genocide is complete garbage. They even gave warning to Gaza before launching attacks so that the civilians could get out of the way. That isn’t the act of a country looking to eradicate every last member of the neighboring country.

And you say they were leveling hospitals. Why? Was it because they didn’t like hospitals? No. It was because Hamas was using the hospitals and those in them as shields. Could Israel have sent troops into the tunnels? Sure. But that isn’t what they did. It would have resulted in massive losses and wouldn’t have had as much success as bombing the tunnels. I’m not condoning hospitals getting damaged, but there are a whole lot of reasons why they did and most of those start with the fact that Hamas was hiding under them…in some cases in them.

You say Hamas are scum bags and should be accountable for any crimes they committed. Is hiding behind the citizens considered a crime? And when the international court decided to step in, they completely ignored all the crimes Hamas committed and only tried going after Israel. Why is that? It tells me the international court isn’t fair and unbiased. So apparently Hamas ISN’T going to be held accountable for raping and killing civilians, taking hostages and raping and killing them as well, not to mention holding them in unhumane ways.

Again, until Hamas is actually denounced for all they do, not just with calling them scum bags, it is only so much hot air when you come out ranting about Israel doing things wrong. Israel wasn’t doing anything wrong until Hamas started this war. To me, every death that came after that falls on Hamas’ head. Had they not done the cowardly attack, none of the violence for the past 16 months would have happened.