Is Robert Kennedy really trying to go after antidepressants?

I think Jr’s ultimate goal is to ban antidepressants, so that he can start his “mood-elevating” brain worm business with minimal competition. ;-)

This scares the hell out of me, I am on 3 different meds. I really do need those. I have quite a few different mental disorders, have been hospitalized many times. I am putting the work in too not just relying on the meds, but they help. Most nights my sleep meds are the only way I sleep. I have issues.

I want to go into social work and mental health, I am scared for the future of it

But I think about it. There is no way the government is going to willingly lose out on billions of dollars. Big Pharma won’t allow it either. I am not claiming the med system is perfect. But stay away from my meds!

@MakeItSo1701 SSRIs are 100% addictive. Not in the nicotine/coccaine sense but in the you cannot just stop them sense. You have to taper off slowly or you have bad consequences. In some people, it can cause mania, suicidal thoughts, and other behavioral problems. In some people, it makes their mental issues worse. Other people’s genetics keep them from working at all. IMO they’re way overprescribed and not taken seriously enough. They’re life-saving drugs for some people. But Jesus, they need more oversight. Without going into details, I have lost two good friends to them. I was on them for a while ~20 years ago. One landed me in the ER and another was responsible for the worst two weeks of my life. I had one I could tolerate but it made me want alcohol like a madman. I quit that med and it took me close to a year to taper off of it. I cannot take them. Once I gave up on them, I question why my doc put me on one in the first place and realized all my depression and anxiety was friggin caused by them. Not a fan.

Antidepressants are very addictive, can be dangerous, have a ton of serious side effects, are not fully understood, overprescribed, and not necessarily effective.

Let’s just hope trump does perform a trashing of the FDA.
I however am glad that medical practice is private.

Yes he is, and it’s terrifying.

All I know is that every time I am off the meds I attempt suicide.

They are not addictive, when you stop suddenly the side effects are worse.

It is not that I can’t stop the meds because I need them to be happy. They don’t make you happy. They are slightly more effective than placebo you are right, however they keep serotonin, etc in your system longer. Goes a long way.

They are overprescribed, sure. Again, lots of people need them. Medications, along with self work is the key for a lot of people.

Advertisements should be reconsidered. They make the meds seem like magic happy pills.

They of course can be harmful.

If they ban antidepressants, I hope they ban alcohol, weed, cigarettes. I don’t care what fallacy that is, it needs to be done. If I can’t have my mental health meds, then that shit needs to be gone too. Bye

He also wants to send people who need them to concentration camps.

My ex had issues and she got put on Paxil. She started mellowing out and becoming normal which was great. But then, she started gaining weight (one of the side effects). She didn’t want to gain weight so she just stopped taking the pills. She kept telling her therapist she was taking them. She got to where she was absolutely crazy…manic about everything, unable to deal with even minor stress…it was horrible. What I found out later was that many of these antidepressants or mood inhibitors work great, but coming off of them can really drive the person into the dirt.

RFK Jr wants to EVALUATE the prevalence and risks of prescribing Antidepressants, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, stimulants and weight-loss drugs to children. I don’t see getting more information and evaluation as a bad thing when it comes to the drugs we pump into our kids.

@ragingloli That claim has been debunked already. Even Snopes had to throw the brown flag on it.

A study published in the medical journal the Lancet found significant withdrawal symptoms only affect about 1 in 35 people who use antidepressants. It is important to be in a doctor’s care when going off SSRIs and to taper off gradually

About 20% of patients develop antidepressant discontinuation syndrome following an abrupt stoppage of or marked reduction in the dose of an antidepressant taken continuously for one month.1.

She should have tapered. Kind of her fault.

@MakeItSo1701 It was harder for me to quit Zoloft than cigarettes. Getting off that shit was brutal. I don’t think anyone wants to take your antidepressants from you clearly, you benefit from them. What many people want is more transparency and a little more restraint with them.

There is no doubt that anti-depressants and other medicines can be crucial to some people for managing mental health issues. And most current psych meds have born the test of time. It’s ridiculous to categorically dismiss them and certainly they also need to be managed by a competent physician.

I have never taken any anti depressants but I know people who have, and who have been helped greatly by them. What I used to tell my clients when I did child protective work is if you are still experiencing issues, tell the doctor or person who prescribed them, and the dose might need to be raised or lowered, or maybe the medication needs to be changed.

@MakeItSo1701 Yes, it was her fault. There isn’t an argument about that. But as with all prescribed medicines, there is a weak spot…the end user. If they miss a time to take them, if they decide they don’t want them, etc. all play into it. And think about what you are saying. Even your articles show it. You have to taper off gradually. Why? If they aren’t addictive, then why would you need to taper off? And look at the second article you listed. The article from the NIH created a name for it…Antidepressant Discontinuation Syndrome. They even created a neat little acronym to remember the symptoms. Amazingly, those symptoms are pretty much identical to heroin withdrawal.

So you have drugs that everyone says you should taper off when you withdraw from them (much the same as heroin) or you can get some serious withdrawal symptoms (much the same as heroin). Sound addictive to me.

Antidepressants are not addictive. Note that Therapy is also needed alongside the medication. In rare cases, individuals may misuse or abuse antidepressants. However, this is not a common occurrence.

@Forever_Free Yes. They are addictive.

SSRI are not addicitve. They are habitual. The are also life saving and can help with various mood disorders if the physician prescribing them knows what they are doing

The thing about RFK Jr. is he’s often right in pointing out certain problems. He’s right that SSRIs are overprescribed, he’s right that nutrition is major problem in this country, he’s right to criticize big pharma. But his “solutions” (wellness farms, opposition to vaccines) ain’t it. But when one contingent is saying “everything’s fine, do nothing” when there’s clearly a problem, the half-baked ideas are going to seem appealing.

@Caravanfan Define addictive then. When you can’t simply stop something and it takes months to taper off without negative side effects sure sounds like chemical addiction to me.

@Blackwater_Park Then your own personal understanding of addictive is wrong. And no, I don’t take orders from you. Look it up yourself

The definition of addictive involves much more than simply the need to taper off a substance after a period of use. Among others, it also requires a negative impact on a person’s life. SSRIs are not addictive. Look up the definition of addictive.

https://recovery.com/resources/addiction-vs-habit-whats-the-difference/

According to this, habit is:

“The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines a habit1 as ”an acquired mode of behavior that has become nearly or completely involuntary.” In some contexts, the word habit can appear synonymous with addiction, but they differ quite drastically. Swapping one for the other can inadvertently cloud the truth of an addiction and the effects it can have.

Examples of habits include:

Having a cup of coffee in the morning

Talking evening walks

Reading before bed

Meditating

Making your bed

If needed, you can choose to not do a habit. Though doing it may come instinctually, you could stop with some conscious effort. Even if it feels a bit weird or uncomfortable, it doesn’t cause physical withdrawal symptoms or consume your thoughts. ”

Now compare that to what we are talking about. Taking Antidepressants or Antipsychotics is not an acquired mode of behavior. They are chemical mixtures that were prescribed. They are not involuntary (or nearly so). You have to remember to take them. But the biggest difference here is the last sentence about breaking a habit: Even if it feels a bit weird or uncomfortable, it doesn’t cause physical withdrawal symptoms or consume your thoughts.

We’ve already seen medical evidence showing that stopping SSRIs can result in symptoms that closely resemble those of stopping heroin. Another interesting sentence in this is the one that states swapping “habit” in place of “addiction” can inadvertently cloud the truth of an addiction and the effects it can have.

Just because it is a prescribed drug doesn’t mean it can’t cause an addiction. We’ve seen that too many times with the opioid crisis in this country. To look at addiction, this same article has this interesting line in it:

_“Addiction primarily differs from a habit in that stopping has consequences. Many people who try to stop experience withdrawals, which are physical and mental reactions to not having the substance3.”

Since we know that just stopping antidepressants can have physical and mental reactions, I’d suggest they fall closer to addiction.

And how many people relapse on SSRIs because the withdrawals are oh so terrible they would rather be on the drug again?

How many SSRI users steal money to get the drug?

How many have to check into a rehab?

How many lie to doctors to get put on SSRIs? (NOT benzodiazepines, those are not antidepressants and a different story, and even then, those are usually used in conjuction with uppers like coke.)

Way to trivalize real addiction.

You are hung up on withdrawals. What a lame argument.

@MakeItSo1701 So now the litmus test is their reaction? Well, in my ex’s case she ended up threatening the life of my children because they irritated her further. They were 3, 1 and 1 at the time. Bad enough to be an addiction? She spent thousands of dollars online…money we didn’t have…because she wanted to. Does that qualify? How about lying to the therapist about NOT going off them? Does that qualify?

As for trivializing real addiction, I have had to deal with real addiction in my own family. It included all sorts of wonderful things like stealing all my wife’s jewelry, trading sex for drugs, living on the street, etc. Getting clean included the physical aspect but also the emotional and psychological aspect. My ex didn’t get that bad, but she might have if I hadn’t been paying for everything.

Care to tell me all about other things about me that just aren’t based on fact?

@Blackwater_Park There is a huge difference between habitual and addictive.
Addictions are driven by the need to alleviate negative emotions or avoid withdrawal, where habits do not carry the same emotional weight.
Habits are not usually driven by a strong psychological need or craving.
Perhaps there is more going on in your case, but don’t just label it as addictive when scientific studies have found they are not addictive.
When in doubt, seek better help and understanding.

I know you have dealt with this, which is why I assumed you wouldn’t make all these dumb arguments. But here we are. Since you want to argue that your ex is the gold standard for how meds are addicting, I will assume that you don’t truly understand addiction.

If she acted that way on meds, then she was prescribed the wrong ones that probably made her manic. If she was Bipolar, going on the right meds is crucial. I have lied about continuing my meds because I hated them and wanted the therapist to think I was stable and making progress, in the hopes they would stop giving me them. So, not really a good point to addiction. I am not alone in doing that. Therapists have ways of making you compliant if they feel you are a risk.

But your ex being an idiot is not an indicator that meds are addicting. So, enough of that irrelevant story please. I will not entertain you any further, as clearly we won’t see eye to eye on this, and arguing with a brick wall is a waste of time. Have a good day.

Edit: Actually, I do care about one thing. What med was she on?

Addictions are driven by the need to alleviate negative emotions or avoid withdrawal. No kidding.

What happens when you stop an SSRI suddenly. You all can play word games all you want. It’s addictive. I have personal experience with it and is was harder to quite than nicotine. The process of getting off both was exactly the same. Slow taper over a long period of time. With nicotine, you can stop suddenly and continue to function. Not the case with SSRIs. It’s harder. I get people are afraid to call them addictive but it’s asinine not to admit that they are.

At least admit that people become “chemically dependent” on them.

Alright fuck it. You win.

Antidepressants are 100% addictive. Nevermind all those dumbass doctors that say they aren’t that is big pharma!!! My confirmation bias trumps professionals!!

nevermind any and all evidence that says that they are not.

Addiction: a compulsive, chronic, physiological or psychological need for a habit-forming substance, behavior, or activity having harmful physical, psychological, or social effects and typically causing well-defined symptoms (such as anxiety, irritability, tremors, or nausea) upon withdrawal or abstinence : the state of being addicted

If you are prescribed the wrong meds, of course they have negatives. Once again, not a Goddamned addiction. If you are on the right medications for your prescribed disorder, it is not addicting. Where is the complusive? Needing to take them once a day is not compulsive, meds are not an obsession. Harmful behaviors? If you don’t take them consistently, if you suddenly stop, if you are on the wrong kind. The only similarity is withdrawals.

@MakeItSo1701 As the only actual doctor on this thread, I can tell you that you are correct, they are not addictive. They are, however, habituating, which does necessitate a slow withdrawal (depending on the med). But there is a distinct and very important difference between habituating and addicting.

@MakeItSo1701 Hold on now, Just because they’re addictive does not mean they’re not life-saving drugs for a lot of people. We need them as part of treatment for mental health. You can tell me it’s not addictive, but I frankly, know what addiction feels like. You cannot convince me otherwise. They said tobacco was not addictive once also. It’s a liability for drug makers to admit that they are. I’m not in any way bashing your need for them. I’m thankful they work for you and you’re getting proper treatment.

“You cannot convince me otherwise”

His mind is made up. Don’t confuse him with the facts.

@Caravanfan “Habituation” is the term used to refer to psychological dependence on a drug. Except SSRIs like nicotine, cause physical dependence. I know you’re a doc but have you ever tried to taper off of these? Have you ever quit something highly addictive like nicotine? When you know, you know.

I have tapered off probably 9 or 10 meds. Some more long term than others. Short term was easy, longer term was more difficult in terms of side effects.

Quitting alcohol was the hardest thing I have ever done, and I still crave it a lot. I have never craved Prozac. Everybody is different. Experiences can agree or disagree with the facts, but the facts are still facts. They are meds. They affect everyone differently. Overall, they are not addictive.

I am peacing out for real this time.

Not Caravanfan, still giving my experiences since apparently that matters more over facts.

Wow. I just got mansplained by someone who clearly knows less than I do. This is kind of fun. Please continue.

Whatever term you want to use to describe it, Cymbalta withdrawal – even with very long taper – is something I hope to never experience again. From hearing my eyeballs move to rage to vivid thoughts of walking in front of a nearby train, there should be restraint and substantial warning when prescribing these things. “Addictive”? Apparently not, according to medical terminology. But still completely fucked up.

I guess the hang up is what y’all call “addiction” I consider chemical dependence addiction. So do many others. Some won’t unless there is some associated “high” or craving. I don’t care what you call it. Getting off these drugs completely sucks. It’s likely harder for some people than others. I don’t have any issue with alcohol despite dipping into the heavy side of moderate sometimes. I can take it or leave it. Give me any amount of nicotine and I’ll be back on that train, but with willpower I could quit in a day because nic fits are just not that bad. I get no high from coffee but if I just quit I’ll be nursing a stellar headache. Likewise, if I tapered off Lexapro too fast, I was not getting out of bed until I upped the dose enough to function over the course of a couple of days. I react badly to them and I suspect @hat does also. People need to know this going in when they start the drugs. It’s been more than 20 years since I was on the train with these things, I also hope to never experience it again. YMMV.

@Blackwater_Park I believe you are arguing with ego at this point. I already gave the report from NIH showing they have withdrawal symptoms in many cases. That obviously wasn’t good enough.