Do you think people who work for ICE or in the past the Gestapo are inherently evil or does participating in the system make them so?

Violent and authoritarian professions attract people who want to be violent authoritarians. That has always been true, and always will be true.
So yes, they have always been evil. The jobs they chose made them even more evil.

The very nature of the job attracts bullies.

I think the majority are people just doing a job.

When I did child protection, a lot of people thought we were just out to break up families. We were just people doing a job. If we didn’t do what we were supposed to, according to the guidelines we worked under, we would have been fired and probably sued (for example, if a kid ended up dead).

This just doesn’t sound helpful.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/german-national-green-card-holder-immigration-detention-fabian-schmidt-rcna196714

I figure they are doing a job, enforcing laws. I’ve seen many times that simple policemen have to deal with complete nut-jobs who resist, who call them all sorts of horrible names, who battle with them and always feel it is unfair that the cops are enforcing the laws. I’m pretty sure that many of these folks that are getting picked up by ICE are acting the same way. Are there bullies? Probably. There have been bullies in every job I have ever worked at. Does that make them all Gestapo? That is the left-wing talking. It is what they do…accuse anyone they don’t like of being a Nazi. It’s been going on for 50+ years.

Many cops and agents I know are actually great people just doing their job. So no I don’t think doing a tough job means you’re evil. Cruelty is different, of course.

I’m reminded of the cries about the inhumanity of the border patrol agents that were on horseback, using whips on the illegal immigrants that were running from them. There was even a picture! Until you looked and realized it was a rein and it wasn’t being used like a whip. I think they were called Nazis too, if I remember right.

The SS were just doing their jobs too.

I think some people are attracted to that type of job, but for the majority they take the job because it pays well or they want to make a difference or whatever. This link explains the Standford prison experiment very well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

@smudges Yes, I’m very aware of the Stanford Prison Experiment which is part of my thinking. When you put people in certain positions and give them license, they will bend to the new conventions..

It’s a mix of both. Some people legitimately just need a job, and over time end up jaded, then callous.

You’re surrounded by fake machismo men, so everything you do is watched to see if you’re in the in-group.

Another consideration might be that some of the people the ICE agents are after are very bad people. Tren De Aragua gang members or MS-13 members are often violent and armed and surrounded by others just like them. Being nice and asking them to come with you is probably not the best course of action. When honesty requires people to admit that very dangerous people have been let into our nation we can stop trying to find fault with those that are tasked with getting rid of them.

^^ And I’m sure all the Jews in Germany were gang members too. The President of Venezuela has said that those sent to El Salvador prison were not members of a gang and a Soccer player with a tattoo of his team’s logo was deported as well.

You don’t see any hypocrisy in excusing the January 6 criminals while rounding up brown people without any legal recourse?

Please don’t answer. You’re a one note pony – as I suppose am I.

The existence of ICE is immoral. By definition, anyone who voluntarily joins ICE as an agent is a bad person. Only a certain type of person would seek that job and carry out their orders.

So, it’s bad people encouraged to do evil shit by the system.

ICE is not evil; I’m thankful for those who do the job.I like law and order, sovereignty, secure borders, and all that jazz. Every bit of it.

Evil is an interesting construct. The cruelest people can have love and have compassion for their family. It’s an enigma. Some people can hate one group of people and actually love another. One person I know hates their own parents and loves their spouse and children very much.

@janbb @seawulf575

Even though it is seawulf, he is right that there are bad criminals, of course, but….this is where the ridiculousness comes in:

Similar to the seals versus your standard navy cook for example, everyone in the military isn’t meant to “kick down doors”.

And this is the huge issue:

These operations should only be done by a select, elite few.

If you let any random guy that’s bored and wants “action” and an adrenaline rush….you get a massively corrupt free for all on innocent people.

Both types are attracted for different, but related, reasons.

The Gestapo was evil but who knows if the people working in the Gestapo where evil. ICE on the other hand is keeping out illegals trying to cross into America. The Gestapo just arrested anyone who didn’t agree with hitler. ICE arrests those that came here illegally.

@Blackberry I agree that you shouldn’t just get Joe Blow off the street, throw a badge on them and let them go at it. But I’m pretty certain that these folks get a whole lot of training prior to going out into the field. It is like that with all jobs. And those in the field don’t want some untrained yahoo out there who could easily get everyone killed.

@janbb The question was about ICE, not the Gestapo. The question is about the quality of their character as they are rounding up criminals. The Gestapo were in Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940’s. That is the problem with comparing people today to Hitler or his regime. The situations are far different which makes the quality of the people far different.

And I find it telling that you are so quick to demonize those that are enforcing the law and trying to protect those that break it.

@seawulf575: “That is the problem with comparing people today to Hitler or his regime. The situations are far different which makes the quality of the people far different.”

Says someone who is doing his best to make the situations the same.

@seawulf575: “And I find it telling that you are so quick to demonize those that are enforcing the law and trying to protect those that break it.”

They just come out and say it, don’t they. The Gestapo were merely enforcing the laws and protecting those that broke it.

@hat Once again you have shown lack of reading comprehension. I’m the one on here that has been speaking out against intoning the Nazis. The question equated ICE with the Gestapo, not me. I have said it was a false equivalency and nothing more than a left-wing talking point. No surprise that you are supporting it. And I’ve compared ICE and the Gestapo. It is like comparing apples to pomegranates. But don’t let that stop you from doing your best to make the situations the same.

@hat are you saying the Gestapo was good?

@KRD – I’m just pointing out that you can’t justify the actions of an institution or individuals by citing “the law”. In doing so, you’d be justifying many of the actions of fascist atrocities. The gestapo was following the law.

It is funny to see the typical unquestioning and unreflective acceptance and parroting of the government claims that ICE is just “rounding up criminals” and “the deported Venezuelans are all gang members”, despite offering no proof, and actively denying the victim’s right to due process. Victims are just assumed to be guilty, because the orange Führer can do no wrong.
And then they claim they are just upholding “law and order”, while actively and openly defying and disobeying court orders. Lawlessness declared as “law”. Tyranny declared “freedom”. Open corruption dressed up as “draining the swamp”.

Note to the authoritarian “law” lovers: You have to also keep in mind that ICE has illegally detained a legal resident of the US, has not charged them with a crime, and have made it clear that it was because they opposed genocide.

The law is used to protect power. And when the law is not sufficient, the law is ignored/violated. We’ve seen bipartisan celebrations over the past 18 months about how the US rejects the concept of international law as well. When a nation commits crimes against humanity across the globe and turns the power of the state against its own citizens, appeals to “the law” are obscene.

@hat In the case to which you are referring, the issue is that the individual potentially lied on his green card application which would mean he wasn’t a legal resident of the US. I know how much you love terrorists and will make excuses and deflect blame for them, but some people don’t agree with you.

@seawulf575: “I know how much you love terrorists”

No, I’ve made it abundantly clear that I am opposed to Israel.

Anyway, they went after him because of his speech. Period. He is a political prisoner. And it hasn’t stopped with him. And it won’t stop with legal green card holders. If it hits my family, you’ll get a taste of what I’m capable of on the news.