What is this microsoft software?

Microsoft Crap™
Use Coda or Dreamweaver.

Microsoft Expression Web 2?

Or you could be thinking of the disaster that was Frontpage.

Frontpage thank you!

You’ll regret using that.

I was hoping that this was a “What was the name of that application?” type of question. And not a “What should I use to make a website?” kind of question.

I believe it was, John.

@Mangus: why?
@John: also why?

Frontpage makes really ugly and bloated code. Usually code generated by a WYSIWYG editor makes me ill. Dreamweaver is like having the flu, Frontpage is like having AIDS.

I use a plain old text editor. TextMate to be precise.

can you get me a link to a good site to use…I don’t really want to pay money though

I don’t code at all, but a lot of people love Notepad++

Thanks

TextMate is awesome, also CSS-edit.

Aptana Studio Community Edition Open source and rawks.

Failpage? Sorry… Frontpage. Same difference.

If you really want to use a WYSIWYG and if you really want to get it from Microsoft use their Expression range, I’ve tried them and like them, Frontpage was a failure but their new programs are okay. Dreamweaver is also good for WYSIWYG editing and creation and can be considered as the ‘industry standard’ for that form of software. As for non-WYSIWYG editors Aptana, Notepad++ and any other simple editors like these are good to use, if you have a Mac I’ve heard many a good thing (well you wouldn’t hear otherwise would you) about Coda.

As for the reasoning why Frontpage was bad, well, it creates ugly code and is nasty, it’s from over 5 years ago nearly, it was outdated to a degree when it was released and is even more so now. If you want to get into web development I advise you not to go that direction.

As for whether to use Microsoft or Apple to work towards becoming a web developer, erm, it doesn’t matter. Unless you want to work specifically with Microsoft technologies (Silverlight, WPF, ASP.net and the like) then you can use any OS, I use Linux to develop on and I use PHP, but I know a number of web developers/designers who use Macs, of which one has a very nice setup indeed. They all have high praises for it and it’s programs (like Coda). So that’s just my insight into it all, but if you’re planning on staying simple, just ignore me ;)

why do you all hate frontpage so much?

Proprietary code, bloated code, heavy pages for no reason….

It’s sort of like, making a peanut butter & jelly sandwich but adding saurkraut, mustard, and mayo to it. Oh, and a couple slices of salami.

ok….that made like no sense to me…but I kinda got the point

Try making a good website in FrontPage and you’ll know :P

Anyway, wasn’t Microsoft Expression Web just Frontpage with a different name (and new developments, of course, it might have improved).

Expression web is a much more improved WYSIWYG editor over Frontpage, yes expression is a follow on from Frontpage, but they both have the same aim, so it would be hard not to.

Not to put you off these type of editors by way but as an example; I frequent a web development chatroom and after asking what the guys thought of Frontpage I got this:

“I absolutely hate it”
“Frontpage and dreamweaver suck ass”
“the coding colours are horrible, the layout is bad, when you do try to preview in Frontpage, it doesn’t even preview what it would be like in IE6, it just uses some kind of dodgy IE5 / 6 engine with its own bugs”
“I’d rather code in notepad tbh”
“I’m not a fan of wysiwyg editors tbh, but only because the ones i have used have proven to be too cumbersome to bother using”

Yeh, these guys seem to have something against WYSIWYG editors in general, so they are biased, but there is a consensus of hate towards Frontpage :)

In no way is this a personal attack on anyone, especially not you Comedian. I just want to put the point across as solid as possible, if you want to do any web development and for people to take you seriously don’t, by any means, use Frontpage.

@Vincentt and Skyrail: When I was in like 8th grade I took this computer class and I made a pretty cool website. But I’ll take your guy’s advice. Could you get me a good website to make one?

@Skyrail – what I meant was: is Expression Web based on the same code that was once Frontpage? Somehow that’s in my memory but I’m very unsure (which probably isn’t correct grammar, but well :P).

@Comedian – yeah, I thought what I did in there was pretty cool too. But it wasn’t that cool if you’d really use it, say, long enough to see new browsers appear other than IE6 and find out your previously cool site sucks ass.

The best solution is “coding” it yourself (it isn’t even coding, really). A good middleground is Nvu, which is kinda WYSIWYG, but it helps to know what’s going on. Yet, even though Nvu is cool for quick sites for your pet, that’s about it. The best option for most people to set up a personal website is to start a blog somewhere :)

I just want to set up a site about Dominic West. lol

<3 Coda and Textmate and CSSEditor

ok

are those free?

@Skyrail: good summary, and good suggestions. But you can even develop for MS technologies on a Mac – just use VMware Fusion.

I switched to Mac about a year ago, but for my job I develop and maintain an ASP.NET / SQL Server application, so I just run XP under Fusion. It’s great – I get the yummy goodness of OS X (and develop much of the client-side code using Aptana and TextMate), plus I run Visual Studio, SQL Server and Management Studio under XP during work time, to work on server-side code.

Fusion isn’t free – it’s $80 – but given the cost of MS licenses, that’s hardly even noticeable. :)

Ah thanks for the insight jasonjackson, I suppose with the numerous crossover technologies there are you can use them to develop almost anything on a Mac :) I just wish I could develop with Microsoft technologies easily on Linux, I’ve got access to a large number of MS technologies that all look pretty neat, and I’ve tried out a few of them, but I use Linux so it can be a pain :( but for now, python will be good enough :)

Python? Like Monty Python? lol

Just like Monty Python :D the Python documentation has a number of quotes and references to Monty Python’s Flying Circus, it’s quite nice :) and although I digress from the original topic if you wish to learn a programming language, Python is wonderful.

It’s not wonderful. It’s Brilient! Terrific! Amazing! Like…totally funny! lol

I thought VMWare was also available for Linux distributions. In case it’s not, I’m sure VirtualBox is which does wonders as well.