Why is everyone allowed to vote?

Pre-vote testing would be seriously biased against those living in poverty, not matter was done to try and avoid it. Also, it would be very hard to not have it be biased in other ways as well. Take the presidential debates, for instance. Those are run by a bipartisan coalition. Unbiased, right? No—third parties are totally excluded because bipartisan means just Republicans and Democrats.

POOF! You were brave enough to say exactly what I think! YES, people should have to pass some kind of intelligence test to vote. It does not need to be based on education, but on common sense and the ability to process information properly. Totally understand the frustration. Your conversation is unfortunately all too common. Their fear makes me afraid! Regarding your best friend, how have you two dealt with this whole build up to the election? I have avoided any friends that are Republicans, because I don’t want to get pissed off anf disappointed in them.

@Soap: She says something, I tell her she’s stupid, and she tells me to shut up. Conversation over. LOL

Everyone gets the right to vote, like it or not, your vote gets to cancel hers out if you so choose. But I wouldn’t restrict anyone’s freedoms in this country. It’s not our deal. That being said…I’m off to the polls to stand in line with some red-staters and blow raspberries at them. :)

Everyone should be allowed to vote. Otherwise only some people get representation. That’s not fair.

Look at history. After the 15th amendment was passed some Southern states used literacy tests as a requirement for voting in order to keep blacks from voting. An intelligence test wouldn’t be any different.

Some people are idiots. Some people vote always vote Republican or Democrat without looking into the candidates at all. Democracy works best when only informed voters vote, but if uninformed voters can’t vote, then it isn’t a democracy.

Oh asmonet, I know, I know, just thinkin’. It is the same nefarious thought process that I have about reproducing.

Unfortunately, we’ll never have a shortage of dumbshits in this country.

First of all everyone is allowed to vote because thousands of men and women GAVE THEIR LIVES to ensure that EVERYONE has the right to vote and to participate in democracy.

Secondly, this is pretty elitist point of view and in my opinion as bad as racism and sexism.

Not all humans are equal. Do they deserve equal rights as every other human being? Yes. But not all people are created equally, not everyone is “smart” and not everyone is “dumb”.

How about instead of ranting to the internet you calmly lay out your opinion and the supporting material behind it. Maybe you would help her to see your side of the argument. Maybe you will help her learn and in turn help her become smarter.

Instead what you’ve done is make yourself part of the problem. Kudos to her for having an opinion right or wrong and having the fortitude to defend it. That girl is someone’s daughter and another human being. Have some freaking compassion.

People are suppose to have some knowledge about politics and history by the time they are of legal age to vote. It is called 12 years of school. The government has paid for their education and don’t need need to pay for people to take a test to see if they are smart enough to vote. I know that people vote for dumb reasons but that is just how it goes. It’s a right and many people fought for that dumb ass girls right to vote and I don’t mean they fought wars but fought sexism, racism, and other forms of discrimination so a stupid person can vote for whoever they want.

@tekn: I did do that, I explained everything to her, and she still voted McCain. And NOW I’m here, ranting about what an idiot she is, and how it frightens me that people THAT STUPID are allowed to make decisions that affect MY life and MY family. I have every right to be pissed about that, and it doesn’t make me sexist or racist. So [removed by me] yourself for basically calling me a racist or a sexist.

@ tekno: not everyone is capable of basic reasoning & logic, common-sense kinda stuff. You can calmly lay out your opinion and the supporting evidence and it’s still too much to ask them to do to reason through it.

It’s like asking a hamster to jump over a six-foot fence.

No kudos are granted for “having an opinion.” You know the old saying, “Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.” I’ve heard all kinds of “opinions” this election year like “Obama is a Muslim, that’s just what I believe, I don’t care what the truth is.” There’s been a very frightening and growing move towards anti-intellectualism in this country the last few years, where the dumbshits are looked upon as “jes’ plain folk, the salt of the earth, real honest Americans, not like them liberals what read books and stuff.”

No sale.

@ ten
Really, I think this is just about frustration. I agree with poof, but if it was ever put up for a vote, I would not actually vote for it and I bet poof wouldn’t either, probably because we actually THINK about such issues. C’mon, you really have never looked at someone and thought they were using up good oxygen? Every thought you have ever had passes the “Aren’t we all created equal” test? I truly believe that we are and should enjoy equal rights. When I see people like this tragic little Elizabeth Hasselback wannabe and realize they helped win the last election, I become disgusted and frustrated and fantasize about such things as a test to see if you know enough about what is going on in the world to have a say. There is no one that can say they are always calm and will have the time and patience to try and “educate” a person such as in poof’s example. You will not change their mind anyway. They are not capable or willing to think about an issue past the tip of their noses. Voting IS a priviledge(Hope that doesn’t sound too elitest), maybe we should have to do something to earn it?

@Soap: THANK YOU. I couldn’t have said it better.

Simply, I can’t believe that you are so conceited as to believe that your opinion is the correct opinion and that anyone with an opposing opinion, no matter how uninformed you think it is, should not have the right to vote.

Let me say, too, that there are plenty of Obama backers who don’t know why they are voting for Obama other than he is: 1) Black 2) For change 3)An excellent speaker. I know they exist because I know these people personally.

@Sueanne: NO. I feel I was pretty clear in saying that people who are completely uninformed and refuse to be shouldn’t be able to make decisions that affect me. I flat-out said that my friend is voting McCain, and I RESPECT that, because she knows her STUFF.

And, for the record, I don’t agree with those backing Obama for those reasons either. I never said that anyone who doesn’t share my opinion should not be able to vote. all I said was, if you’re not going to take the time to educate yourself, YOU SHOULD NOT BE MAKING DECISIONS THAT AFFECT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

I really wish people would read before answering questions.

To be fair, poof. Most of the people who are that uninvolved, don’t vote.

@ Sueanne
I am not trying to start anything. I just want to point out that at least the three reasons that you illustrated are facts, unlike the example that poof had, which are not. They may not be good enough reasons to you, but they at least they are true!

Quoting Walt Whitman: “we must make common cause with the stupid”. It was so shocking. We (including me) have a feeling that we can change “the stupid” and make them more like “us”. Probably not. We can only outvote them. They do the best they can with the gifts god (sic) gave them. Like the poor, they’ll always be with us. We have to accept them. They are human. We also have to take them into account. And outvote them.

Some people think we should be teaching civics in school. Remember that? It would have allowed Sarah Palin to know what the vice president’s duties are…. or maybe not…
and that’s my point.
The people who can process information must work harder than the people who haven’t learned how. We MUST treat everyone as human. That’s our agreement.

You cannot take away someone’s right to vote because they are uninformed by your standard, or anyone’s standard. Remember the poll tax and literacy tests and the 3/5ths vote law? All efforts to take away the right of a certain class of people deemed unable to cast an informed vote. And you want that back?

“I’m voting for McCain because Obama wants people to have abortions.” Uninformed by my standard? Are you freaking kidding me, Sueanne?

No, I am not. I might think that opinion is wrong and certainly uneducated but they have a right to vote. simple as that. Your job is to help educate, not to take away their rights.

Sueanne, you must admit, talking to someone like that is like talking to a brick wall. Obviously trained professionals in our educational system didn’t get through, I doubt very much, I could.

I couldn’t give you enough lurve in the world, Sueanne.

it’s like Soap said. I would never move to enforce this. I just find it infuriating that idiots like the girl in my office could have any impact on my life.

@soap, yep. Brick walls. Thank god we have a few otherwise this whole world would be quite a boring place. I understand the frustration felt by Poof and others who keep themselves informed, but not all people are able to do so. They are inundated with poor messages from all sort of outlets.

@poof: Believe me, she is having a greater impact on your life just by how riled she can make you then she ever could with her one vote. Relax a bit…it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

@ asmonet All I can say is I SO hope you are right and most of these uninvolved people do not choose to vote. I guess I have just seen too many of those street interviewers on TV asking people who the Secretary of State is and they don’t have a clue.
I just want to point out again, this is about musing, as a direct result of great frustration. I think if people were honest with themselves, many have had similar thoughts. When it came down to it, would you support it? No. The question did provide food for thought and I think that is what this forum is all about.

I concur.

And heh, funnily enough my in my opinion uneducated (on this topic) friend in Alabama just voted for “mCaine”. And notified me via text message. I might not agree with him, but at least he has the right to do it and I exercised my right to cancel him out.

I’m more riled about being called elitist, conceited, sexist, and racist… not because my co-worker is a moron.

asmonet, That is priceless, just priceless! lol!

You should text back that you voted for O’Bama.

Nimis: Did you think I didn’t?

Seriously, if you lived near me, I’d be your stalker…or friend.

@POOF: Look I appreciate that you are frustrated. I am frustrated by many things everyday too. But your blatant disregard for the fundamental rights we have as humans is sickening. It just adds to the problem and solves nothing.

oh yes, votes based on facts and not skin color and assumptions is a HUGE problem, I agree. [rolls eyes]

@SOAP: Yes I did spend a lot of years viewing some people as a waste of space. But after a lot of years of consideration about my view on the world I realized how self destructive it is to hold this view of mankind. But you will never ever convince me that human beings don’t have fundamental rights. If they are legally a part of a democracy then they have every right to participate in that democracy no matter what their level of education. Take this away and in the big picture democracy crumbles.

@ Sueanne: I’m not questioning the validity of their beliefs or ranking one belief over another. What I am concerned about is loss of the ability to reason when presented with facts (not opinion).

I get you poof. I often say the same thing, but I always admit it’s an elitist thing to say. The ignorance of some people just goes to show you how much democracy depends on education.

And not all people can vote. If you were convicted of a crime, for instance.

Can those with developmental problems vote? Just wondering.

Some people with mental illnesses can vote, I believe. I was reading about that in The Washington Post, they said they’ve been getting screwed with wrong information. And those in hospitals have in some case been outright lied to.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion based on the amount of knowledge that they can retain. If we took away someone’s right to vote just because we find their reasoning irresponsible than we would be living under a dictatorship and the so called smart people would elect anyone the want into power and control the country any way they see fit.

This way of thinking could lead to the end of our free society. Just imagine if the smart people got together and said Bush should be President for life and anyone that disagrees must lack any intellect.

A dangerous question indeed.

All men are equal, but some are more equal than others.

@poof; <3

alright. Maybe I’ll concede to it being elitist. But doesn’t anyone find it downright scary that we’d be subjected to McCain, or worse if he dies, Palin… because of people that think Obama WANTS women to abort their fetuses, people that are convinced he’s behind the next 9/11 because he’s a big, bad Muslim, people that refuse to vote for him no matter what his principles are because he’s not Aryan enough for him… the list goes on. Doesn’t that freaking terrify anybody? I can’t see how their bigotry should decide our next President, rights or not. I get the right to vote thing, believe me, I do. But I really don’t see why HATE should count toward our decision for the President. Sound, solid reasoning for supporting McCain? FINE! GREAT! GRAND! VOTE AWAY! Hate mongers voting against Obama just because they hate? That is what should sicken you more than me wishing their hate didn’t count.

I think you’re just being upset for the sake of being upset at this point. We all agree that we do not like having uninformed voters for the most part, but we all seem to agree that we would never want someone to have to pass a test for their basic rights

@asmonet: I wouldn’t say I’m upset for the sake of being upset. I think my point is very valid, and definitely worth being upset over.

I just think at this point it’ll go in circles, if someone else has something fresh to add, I’d love to read it.

The protections of the Constitution and Bill of Rights are designed exactly to prevent people in power from taking an elitist position just like yours, Poof.

You have no more right to vote and no less right to vote than anyone else. The rights and duties of citizenship are invested in all citizens. All citizens are created equal, remember?

Also, I am pleased that even an ignorant 20-year-old is voting and interested in doing so. She is young, and she can learn. Would that you could have a similar epiphany in terms of compassion.

In reading this thread, I did not see anyone call you racist or sexist. Your position was labeled as elitist, which it clearly is.

As to your life being influenced by idiots. First, one man’s idiot is Joe the Plumber’s genius. Second, “idiots,” to use your term, influence one’s life all the time. Every time we get on the road, we have idiots driving all around us. We work with them and, sometimes, for them. It’s just the way it is.

No doubt most of us irritate someone sometime. There are people passionatly convinced that you are an “idiot” for voting for Obama even if you are an informed “idiot”. Fortunately, we are all on a level playing field. One person, one vote.

The downside of democracy is that our view does not always prevail, but that does not mean the system is broken.

Ah, Marina. Very well said.

Alright. I already conceded the elitist point. You can all keep beating me over the head… that’s fine. I still stand by what I said.

~ I say we just take away the right for old people to vote too. Anyone over 75 shouldn’t have a voice! And what about blonde women? Who gave them the right to vote?

@fireside: Oh noez! I’m out of the running… but wait, my hair is red by choice! do I still get a say?.

IMPOSTOR!!!

or is it imp poster?

…and none of this behavior is elitist? Your opinion differs from mine, and so you have more right to voice it than me? And it’s okay to tear me to shreds? Right.

@poof
It’s not elitist to state an opinion, especially when that opinion is conceding a right to someone different than oneself. It is elitist to say that certain people shouldn’t be allowed to vote. There’s quite a difference between the two.

addendum: That said, I think it would make sense for everyone to acknowledge that this conversation is essentially over and to move on (as I believe you had already done).