National Debt...

I think Clinton came pretty darn close, so it is possible and probably more rapidly than one would think.

Edit…whoops I think I am way wrong based on some quick research. I thought he had come close, but I guess not…what ever was I thinking ?

Thanks Rob! I thought something was wrong after I typed it so I looked a round a bit. I guess the memory starts to go after 48…And we used the same link!

Actually, the U.S. national debt rose continually under Clinton (having begun serious ramping up as far back as Ford). W. has almost doubled it since Clinton.

And here’s more from a historical perspective.

I think about it and wonder could we ever have a presidency that would spend within their means? And then on top of that work towards getting rid of the debt…it seems so impossible.

I’m no economist but I heard somewhere that eliminating the debt would somehow actually be bad for the economy. It had something to do with the way our monetary system is set up. It was one of those things with a hint of truth about it but I had a hard enough time trying to grasp the concept in my little mind and really could never articulate it to someone else.

Andrew Jackson almost paid off the debt – I think he had it down around $35K in his time. Of course, that was a lot more back then than it is now.

We’ve been in debt ever since we’ve been a nation, but Bush Jr. doubled it – so much so that I’m not sure it will ever be paid off. Especially since the other countries are “bailing out” their troubled industries, leaving them with less money to invest in the United States’ Treasury Bills. When there’s less money available for us to borrow, the interest rates jump dramatically – making it much harder for us to pay off.

Can’t wait until T-bills become junk bonds… which is what happens if we start defaulting.

@miasmom, well, to Sueanne_Tremendous‘s point, Clinton did supposedly balance the federal budget and even had a reported federal surplus.

The tricky part is that the budget itself included the ability to deficit spend.

When I plan my budget that way, it’s called credit card debt.

Rob, I love that chart! It’s awesome!

It does look like the Clinton era was the best in terms of keeping debt under control though. You can see it’s the only time it was increasing at a decreasing rate since about 1970.

It also shows really clearly how it was increasing at an increasing rate under Reagan. I never realized how crappy he was in that area until seeing it graphically.

Legalize marijuana and tax the crap out of it.

Regarding Clinton, a couple things: Clinton generated a surplus in public debt but increased the intergovernmental holding debt by more, therefore increasing the total national debt. He did this partially by borrowing from Social Security. In 2000 he borrowed $137 billion from SS.

@robmandu. When you plan your budget you allow for credit card debt, but do you allow for it to spiral out of control? I will be shocked if we are ever able to get our debt under control. The amount of money spent on interest is absurd.

“If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn’t be any money” -Marriner Eccles – Governor of the Federal Reserve 1941 house Committee on Banking and Currency

In fact the last time in American history the national debt was completely paid of was in 1835 after President Andrew Jackson shut down the central bank that preceded the Federal Reserve. In fact Jackson’s entire political platform essentially revolved around his commitment to shut down the central banks, stating at one point
“The bold efforts the present bank has made to control the Government… are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution, or the establishment of another like it.” -Andrew Jackson

Unfortunately his message was short lived and the international bankers succeeded to install another central bank in 1913, The Federal Reserve. And as long as this institution exists, perpetual debt is guaranteed.

When the government borrows money from the Fed, or when a person borrows money from the bank, it almost always has to be paid back with accrued interest. In other words, almost every single dollar that exists must be eventually returned to a bank with interest paid as well. But if all money is borrowed from the central bank, and is expanded by commercial banks through loans, only what would be referred to as the principal is being created in the money supply. So then where is the money to cover all of the interest that is charged? Nowhere; It doesn’t exist. The ramifications for this are staggering for the amount of money owed back to the banks will always exceed the amount of money available in circulation. This is why inflation is a constant in the economy, for new money is always needed to help cover the perpetual deficit built in to the system caused by the need to pay the interest. What this also means is that mathematically defaults and bankruptcy are literally built into the system, and there will always be poor pockets of society that get the short end of the stick.

During the American Civil War, President Lincoln bypassed the high interest loans offered by the European banks, and decided to do what the founding fathers advocated, which was to create an independent and inherently debt free currency. It was called the Greenback. Shortly after this measure was taken, an internal document circulated between private British and American banking interests. Stated: “Slavery is but the owning of labor and carries with it the care of the laborers, while the European plan… is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages. This can be done by controlling the money. It will not do to allow the Greenback… as we cannot control that.” The Hazard Circular July 1862

All information provided comes from Zeitgeist: Addendum

Please check out the movie to understand where money comes from to understand the answer to your question. Money comes from debt. Without debt, there’d be no money.

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” Thomas Jefferson

@chris6137: I beg to differ about Jackson having paid the debt off. 1835 was the lowest it’s been, though.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo1.htm

Caveat: If he did have it paid off, it was so brief as to not have lasted the year.

Gross National Debt is not an appropriate measure because it isn’t inflation adjusted, nor is it indexed. What matters is debt as a percent of Gross National Product. Clinton did remarkably well on that measure compared to the Bushes and Reagans, as seen in this chart.

Actually, it’s quite extraordinary how bad the supposedly fiscal conservative presidents were in terms of increasing national debt as a percent of gross national product.

It occurs to me that this might be a good indicator to predict the future of the economy with. It would be neat to see a chart of recessions and improving economies superimposed on this chart.

Companion chart to daloon‘s.

(with the caveat that “surplus” is relative and subject to semantics)

Ya made me chuckle, robmandu, and that ain’t easy these days!

LURVE TO ROBMANDU!!!!!