What do you think of a DNR order/ having the right to die argument?

Do you have a terminal illness because 18 is pretty young to not want to be resuscitated? What about CPR? Is that considered? After the Terry Schiavo case I decided that if my parents are still alive if something were to happen to me it is up to them. Not really sure if there is an afterlife so if they want to hold on to me then they can and I would trust they would make the right decision.

I am totally OK with DNR orders. To each his/her own.

your body, your life, your choice.

My sib and I have discussed this with my mother. Or rather she, at 94, has made her wishes very clear. We have a DNR, signed by her primary doctor and witnesses displayed prominently on her fridge.

I have filled out a legal medical directive with specific “dos” and “don’ts” I sure wouldn’t want anyone else to make those decisions for me. I felt enormous sympathy and pity for the parents of Terry
Shiavo, but also felt that keeping her shell alive had no point.

@tyrantx;18 is very young. May we ask your reasons, or is that none of our business?

I am for anything that thins our the herd. I also have a DNR order. I wish ill on those who would interfer with your or my wishes as to our endgame.

@gailcalled: I agree that she was a shell but I just can’t imagine what it was like for her mom to watch her starve to death. There should have been a better way and people started thinking about DNRs and living wills much more after that happened. I guess that is one good thing that came out of all of that.

no I don’t have a “terminal” illness
since I was 16 I have been aware of what defines life to me, 45–60% of things that would make you unconscious are not things you want wake up to, from 16–18 I was a first responder then after that I was a paramedic I have seen horrible things happen to people, they would live but at the same time not live,I have seen people burnt over 90% of their bodies and live (kinda), being paralyzed full or partial, in a coma,life support, things like that are not living(for me). I think my parents would do what’s best for them if it was up to them(it’s harder to let someone go then to have them even though they are severely hurt) I decided if I can’t make the choice myself I don’t want someone else making it for me.,and no cpr/chest compressions/defib if I am unconscious and dying the only thing paramedics can do is to make it more comfortable ie: painkiller drugs/blanket/things like that.

I am pretty libertarian in my view of peoples’ freedom to do with their body as they will. DNR is just peachy by me. I think I wouldn’t want them to give up too easily on me – you know, try all the standard stuff like CPR – but if I’m not going to be “me” anymore, never mind.

I’m not sure how old you are now, but I can see your doctor’s reluctance to acquiesce to your DNR. I also understand your overriding concern, having performed hundreds of resuscitations on people who probably shouldn’t be resuscitated (and for whom the outcome was always grim). That said, as a young person, even an acute cardiac or respiratory event (like choking) could be reversible, and I would argue that DNR for you might be going overboard.

I’m reminded of a memorable resuscitation I led several years ago. I showed up to my overnight moonlighting job at 5 PM and was immediately paged (the nurses had a habit of doing this, knowing someone would answer). Getting over my annoyance, I looked and saw that this was a 911 page (meaning a Code Blue). I ran to the room, and discovered a hectic “code” being run on a 21 year old man. This was not the typical Code Blue patient. I quickly evaluated the situation and asked why he was there (tonsillectomy!) and saw that his major problem was that he wasn’t breathing (he had a faint pulse). I quizzed the nurses about his medical management, and eventually (this took some arm twisting) elicited that he had been given a hefty dose of pain medication 30 minutes earlier. We quickly gave him naloxone (Narcan, the antidote for opioid overdose) and he immediately woke up and started breathing on his own. Whew! I was so relieved and ecstatic that we had “saved” a young (recently married man…his wife watched the whole thing). He walked out of the hospital a couple of days later.

My point in telling this story is that there are reversible things that can happen that, especially for a young person, should be treated.

I am 25
@shilolo
That’s a great point you made, but that’s only one side of things
can you do something(that I’ve never heard before) flip the coin, tell a story about someone you saved that most likely shouldn’t have been saved…
I’ll help you out-

If your not comfortable reading really bad things stop reading now

1 week after I finished my paramedic training and stared helping civi EMS we had a call one night – I will never forget this night
(background) a young ladies boyfriend took her to the park then poured a can of gasoline on her and lit her on fire, the fire dept put her out and when we got to her she wasn’t responsive(no DNR order), very shallow breathing and slow heartbeat, on the way to the hospital she stopped breathing twice and went into cardiac arrest once.
after a couple of weeks at the hospital her condition was: she had 3rd degree burns over 70% of her body, both her legs were amputated, her left arm was amputated and a partial amputation of her right arm(from the elbow down). My partner and I were Praised for keeping her alive, but I believe it might not have been the right thing to do…I can still hear her screams when they were “cleaning” her. I am 100% sure if she could have she would have refused our help.

you see we follow the same line you stared on one end I started on the other, I stand by my decision, If I can’t make the choice it doesn’t need to be made.

Those of us in health care see terrible things and witness suffering, and know there are things worse than dying.
I do not have DNR orders on my chart, but I have executed advance directives and living wills.

According to your own perspective, between 45% and 60% of the time you will not want to be resuscitated. In other words, between 40% and 55% of time, you will want to live.

OK. In my opinion, the benefit from dying in situations where you want to die is less than the benefit from living in the situations where you want to live, so I’d take off the DNR.

But let’s say that for you, living when you’d want to die is worse than dying when you’d want to live. Even so, there are other options for you. You could get a close relative or friend to agree to help you commit suicide if you want to die. Then you’d get to live in the 40–55% of the times when you’d want to live, and you’d still get to die in the 45–60% of the situations when you’d want to die. The downside is that some percentage of those situations would represent a great deal of pain to you. (But not a high percentage.)

I don’t believe it’s rational to give up the 40–55% of the times when your DNR would mean that you die when you’d rather live. Your fear of what you’ve seen as an emergency responder is influencing your decision. You should deal with that fear, or not, as you choose. But don’t let it decide whether you live or die.

Sometimes surviving makes people more happy to be alive. Maybe that woman is happy to be alive, maybe not. I don’t know. I know you have a right to do what you want with your body I just think you are really young. Just my opinion.

You certainly have the right to a DNR. However, I think Bob makes some great points! Have you considered an advanced directive? I think (but am in no way sure) that you can be much more specific in an advanced directive. Whatever you decide, make sure you carry a notice of it with you at all times (maybe on a medical alert bracelet?). At your age and level of general health, no one will think to look into whether or not you have such a legal document.

Are you asking what I think of DNR orders in general?
if so I think people should be able to decide how they live and die.

or

are you asking what I think of you having a DNR order.
you’ve had it for 7 years? how many times have you heard these points the others have made?
Are you able to change it or would your current illness prevent that?

@tyrantxseries. I agree with your point about some situations being difficult (like your burn victim example). I have been faced with that issue many times. More commonly, it is resuscitating someone who by all rights should be allowed to die (like people who are completely demented or with advanced, terminal cancer). However, there are plenty of times where resuscitations are worthwhile (as in the example I gave, and I can provide many more). Thus, I think that it is noble but misguided of you to persist with a DNR at such a young age. If I were your doctor, I too would try to talk you out of it (and I am not “pro-life”) for the reasons I gave. However, I would respect your wishes either way. All that said, augustlan is right. Unless DNR is tattooed on your head, I doubt a first responder would even consider that an option in your case.

I have a medic alert bracelet/and my DNR order in my wallet, it is also on file where I work and a DNR tattoo over my heart.

Well, you certainly are serious about this. I hope it doesn’t come to that for a long, long time.

Sure beats the 5150 tattoo.

me too

(Sure beats the 5150 tattoo).that’s a little extreme

5150 is nothing to be proud about. Ugh.
It’d dreadful for all parties involved.

I don’t think that is something you want to tattoo on your face or any part of you.

What does 5150 mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)

Oh…. Thanks for the link. Why would someone put that on their FACE?

I don’t know shilolo has the pic

I saw the pic.

With respect to the 5150 tattoos, I have seen it several times. I think the people who do it like to mark themselves as crazy (i.e. “I’ve been put under a 5150 hold so many times, its tattooed on me.”) or just “cool”. Why do people get all sorts of wacky tattoos, I don’t really know.

Reminds me of a dilemma I faced several years ago. One of my long-term patients (at the time) came and complained of an adverse reaction to a new tattoo on his arm (he was in his 40s). When I looked at it, it was a brand spanking new SS (i.e. Nazi) tattoo. I was floored. As a doctor, I was supposed to help him. As a human, I was appalled. What to do?....

Yikes! What did you do?