Is our kids learning?

I’m not a teacher so ‘ll whisper. My Daughter is a teacher and I have a few friends that are. Their biggest problem is that they don’t have time to teach kids to think because they’re so busy teaching them to pass tests so the schools can keep their funding

Um…. apparently not (you might want to revise your title before it’s too late)

I thought the question itself was a brilliant joke. Very sad if it’s a whoopsie.
My schooling shore did me good.

@daloon: I think the title was on purpose.

If it was on purpose that was a bad joke…

I loved it. Um, anyone want to take a stab at answering the question?

@trustinglife: No.

Mom of 3 middle/high school age kids here. There is far too much “teaching to the test” going on these days. On the other hand, my kids are doing well in school and have the occasional teacher who really inspires them to think. Parents have a huge role to play here, too.

It’s bizarre… kids going into kindergarten in public school now are expected to show up with rudimentary reading and writing skills.

But when I was a kid, we didn’t get into “See Spot run” until 1st grade.

Perhaps there’s not so much a problem with the volume of material as there is with efficient teaching methods?

I dunno.

I did consider that the title was a deliberate ironic comment about the education system. So maybe it threw me off, because then I had the idea that the asker was less mature than perhaps they actually are. Should I say “is?”

Well, my kids are learning. I don’t know about the others. Teaching to the test is a problem. Many other things are problems, so, no, our kidz iz not larnin. Least, not like we want them to.

Wasn’t it a Bush Quote?

I thought itwas a Bush quote, too.

@ daloon: Bush said it several years ago.

I was a teacher until I became a mom, high school/junior high math. Testing, unfortunately, was a huge part of everything, but the big thing I noticed was a lack of desire by students and a lack of involvement/care by parents. One student was failing my math class and I called the father, he told me that basically his child was going and he wasn’t going to do anything about it. Another big thing was that we got alot of pressure from the administration not to fail more than 20 percent of our students. So kids were passing just because of that. Sad sad sad. I could go on and on, the system is messed up on so many different levels.

sorry, the father told me his child was going to fail and there was nothing he would do about it

My mother and I are still good friends with the English teacher I had freshman year of high school. One of the biggest problems she’s notices is how the younger teachers tend not to care. They don’t assign homework because they don’t want to correct it. They don’t stay after because it’s not in their contracts. They don’t become club advisors because they don’t get paid extra to do it. There are some great young teachers out there though. My civics teacher junior year of hs was a full fledged teacher that year and when my original civics teacher got cancer, my school said to this new teacher “Okay, you majored in history, here’s his course load . Good luck.” he did beautifully, but I get the feeling that he is a rare case.

I think that teaching to the test does have a lot to do with how well/badly kids do in school. My AP classes were really the only classes that didn’t have to teach exclusively to the test because it didn’t matter as much if I did badly on those tests, so I learned a lot from those classes. My AP Spanish teacher did almost teaching to the test and while I did not do very well (I got a 2 out of 5) I can speak passable Spanish and have a good base in the language. As for my other classes? Well, I don’t remember much.

The exact quote is ”Is our children learning?” but I get it, and I think it’s a really funny title! He said it back in 2000 in a campaign speech in South Carolina.

Teacher here-Ooh lots of things to address
Teaching to the test is counterproductive but why do we have the test to begin with? American children have scored more poorly than some other nations’ students on certain math and science tests. I remember when Sputnick was launched and the blame for the Russian launch a few months before the Americans was placed on our educational system. However, who was 1st on the moon, who has a reusable spacecraft program, who has taken the lead in the Hubble Telescope program, who had the 1st exploratory programs, who is exploring Mars, and who was the 1st “civilian” casualty on a mission. So every American might not be a rocket scientist but we manage to produce the best ones.

Another thing most people don’t understand about our public school system is the people who run it are the most faddish people alive. Every 3–5 years, they come up with entirely new ways to teach, often without ever testing if these theories work. They demand that each student have individualized education programs while also demanding that every teacher use the methodology du jour.

For example, the vast majority of children learned to read using the time honored Dick and Jane series that taught phonetics and increaingly complex vocabulary. In the late 80’s a new system for teaching reading floated down from on high-whole word reading instruction! Children would no longer learn to decode, they would learn by following a teacher who read aloud from a book until the students learned whole words by sight. This was such an enormous failure, that in high schools as many as 25% of students take remedial reading using rote (Dick and Jane) methodology.

In just the last 5 years our district has evaluated teachers based on how much student-based (group work, limited individual assessments) teaching they do. Last year the pendulum began to swing the other way and now it is all about direct instruction (lecture/test).

Another cure-all that is being pushed in our district is the daily blackboard configuration-BBC, This consists of a standard script written on your whiteboard evert morning. For each class there must be a “Do-Now” for the first 5–10 minutes of class. Then there must be a description of what will be taught that day including the numeric reference to the corresponding item in the state ed code and finally the homework for the day. BTW I have 3 different subjects so this would take half my available board space. However if a district employee walks into a classroom without a BBC, the principal and the entire school are criticized in writing.

Experienced teachers kind of let this roll off our backs. That doesn’t mean I am stuck in the past. Every spring we have 8th grade parent tours and I am generally on the tour. It is however disheartening to newer teachers to hear from the world at large that they are ineffective, uncaring and lazy when they are trying to meet the needs of up to 140 students a day, planning lessons and grading papers beyond the work day, and taking additional classes.

can I give you triple fluve Gail for taking the most important job in the world for to little pay and way to little thanks? Hip Hip hooray for teachers!!!

I have three children in public schools. I am very happy with the education they are receiving. They get music and physical education, they have computers in their classrooms and they have had great teachers.

I am a HUGE advocate of public schools. Some of my favorite people in the world are teachers (shout out to GIMMEDAT!!). I will graduate in spring of 2010 with my own teaching credential.

Yes, our children is learning.

I am a teacher as well and I really hate questions like this because there is no such thing as “the American public school system.” To suggest it is to ignore the vast diversity of states, cities, districts, neighborhoods, families, schools, classrooms, teachers, and students. It is impossible to make a blanket assertion that “our kids are learning” or “our kids are not learning.” Doing so inevitably leads to sticky over-generalizations like the one above that “younger teachers tend not to care.” While that may be true in some situations, it is certainly not the primary reason that many children do not fulfill their potential at school. The every-3-years-fad-cycle that Galileogirl describes is certainly a factor, as is the blatant disregard for the professionalism of teachers, who put up with all kinds of b.s. that even the most low-level executive would not stand for. Not to mention the deplorable underfunding that pervades our entire system, especially in areas where students are in most need of support and where teachers are most likely to be blamed for their failure.

In any school across the country one can find classrooms where kids “are learning” and classrooms where they aren’t. Even within my own classroom there are days when my students “are learning” and days when they aren’t, due to a myriad of factors both within and outside of my control. I think it safe to say, as others have suggested above, that the overemphasis on testing does not push the trend toward critical thinking or problem solving, and that depriving students of meaningful, creative learning experiences can destroy their motivation. Within such an educational climate, skilled teachers with enough support from their administrations and their colleagues can definitely assure that their students learn. However, it is a weekly, daily, almost hourly struggle that is far too complex to be summed up in a simple response.

My name is gimmedat and I am a public school teacher. I bust my ass to make sure that my students are confident critical thinkers who will contribute to society and make a difference within their community.
Parental involvement, teacher dedication, student motivation, funding, teaching to a test….on and on lend to the success/failure of schooling in America. There are too many variables to consider when you ask about kids learning. My three kids go to public schools and continue to receive outstanding educational opportunities. My students learn something everyday….even if it’s just how to accept a compliment. Kids are always learning. Unfortunately, children and education are undervalued in our society.

I cannot stand it when people drop simple words in sentences. The ones that are short enough to make no difference in the efficiency of the question being asked.

‘Particularly’ should be preceded by an ‘I’, damn it.

thanks for the great answers people. i love it when quoting our president has people wondering if i’m smarter than a 5th grader…ladies and gentlemen i give you two time President George W. Bush!!!

You know that he knows perfectly well how to match predicate to subject. I think that most of us have made mistakes like this from time to time. You’re thinking about a specific kid when you start the sentence, so you say “Is” and then you realize you can’t personalize it; you have to generalize, so your subject changes from “this kid” to “our kids.” Unfortunately, you’ve started the sentence already, and it sneaks out of your mouth before you stop it, and there you are, egg on your face. Except, if you’re the President of the United States talking in front of cameras, your gaffe is instantly sent around the world.

great thread

For the definitive answer to this question, you need only answer another: Is the moon a star?

(sigh)

The only reason my kids are doing good school work is that 1. I spend 2–3 hours with them daily doing homework 2. I send them to Kumon, for Math and Reading ($400 per month) and Language school on Saturday, and music lessons on Wed.

Were I to leave their education to the school system—they might learn something every couple of months by accident.

It feels like the school time is mostly wasted, and that their school experience is largely a social one. I will be trying out a Charter School next year, hoping for better….The Chinese and Indians are going to kick our asses.

My public school students are about 80% Chinese and they ALL kick ass academically. Maybe it has more to do with the students than about the system.

@galileo, that seems to me to be a VERY dangerous assertion. Are you implying that Chinese kids are just “better” students? And the reason so many Black and Latino kids are failing, dropping out, being expelled, and/or being placed in special ed has something to do with their intelligence/culture/preparedness/attitude/identity? Sounds awfully close to racism. Maybe you meant something else (I hope so). I have no doubt in my mind that when students fail, it’s the system that has failed them, not vice versa.

Actually I think all kids start the same but those 1st 5 years can make or break you.

Actually there is a lot about schooling that has to do with culture—specifically how well it is valued at home. If there is not value placed on schooling, there is nowhere for, say, kids to do their homework or no quiet environment for them to study, then often they have trouble learning.

It is only the system that fails students if you take into account the parents as part of the system.

@sarah—it is not that American students suck. Their parents suck—that is the problem, infintile adults cannot raise well balanced children. Also, American parents substitute self esteem for actual academic accomplishment, while Asian parents focus on and reward dicipline and achievement.

The days of showing up, getting C’s and being successful are over—just most of us don’t realize it yet. Americans value sports and American Idol, Asians and Indians value science, math, and academic hard work. We are getting our asses kicked in the world, and we don’t even realize it. WAIT—-“go junior go, touchdown! What were we saying?”

Mitz: I try not to nit pick too much about spelling.
But you seem to use that word a lot, so…
It should actually be infantile.

Last I heard, India was in Asia…but , what do I know, I only graduated from an American public high school, and my parents aren’t Asian, so…

@Mizuki, as I’ve read your responses, one question pops into my head. Why would you continue to send your children to a school you are clearly so unhappy with?

@Nimis, sorry english is my second language and I make a lot of mistakes, sorry

@La_Chica—Indians are often referred to distinct from Chinese—I’ll cut you some slack….

@gimmedat——we’ve signed up for a charter school next semester

@Mizuki: Just wanted to say that your English is great!

Yeah, your English is pretty solid.
No apologies needed, just trying to help out in case you want to use it again. :)

@Mizuki, I’m just curious – where are you from? Do you live in the US now? And what gender are you? I’ve just wondered, and thought now would be a good time to ask. I wouldn’t have guessed English wasn’t your first langugage!

Mizuki, you didn’t say Chinese in your post, you said, “Asians and Indians value science, math, and academic hard work.” and there are more than two countries in Asia…

Stereotype Alert, Everyone TAKE COVER NOW!

I’m Japanese, married for almost 17 yrs to an American, and live in the US, female, and in term of academic hard work, I was a bit too general with my statements—but I do think that Chinese and Indians are top compeitition with the US in general. Japanese in my city are like Americans and like to have fun more than study generally speaking.
And I accept that my English will never be perfect, but good enough most of the time. I don’t mind to laught at myself.

@Mizuki, I really appreciate your sharing a bit about yourself! Now I will understand a little more of where you might be coming from when you post something. Thanks!

@Mizuki: I think on another thread you mentioned you’d only been in the US since 2004, I may be wrong on that point but even so, your English is already better than some college students I know. I don’t know how long you’ve been speaking it, but I for one am well beyond impressed.

Malcolm Gladwell’s new book Outliers addresses the “smart asian kid” theory and it’s an interesting read. he says that millenia of rice cultivation, which is a year round venture, made asians more dilligent workers. the staple western crop, wheat, can only be harvested once a year and involves letting fields (and minds) lie fallow. it is also the reason why we have summer vacation (traditionally so kids could participate in the harvest). asians have no such system, they work harder, and so are ‘smarter’. ancient chinese saying go “he who rises 360 days a year before sunrise cannot fail to make his family wealthy”.

I’ve been in the US for 15 yrs or so.

@mizuki: Ah, my bad. Still, much better than some I know. :)

my spoken english sucks though