How do you explain 'pay it forward' to a person who (quite possibly) could be lacking intelligence?

Tell her “When a stranger you meet needs help, I’d like for you to do the same as I’ve done for you”...

I simply say someone did something nice for me once and now I am doing something nice for you. Keep the tradition going. When someone asks “what can I do to repay you” tell them what I just told you. This is how I explain ‘pay it forward’ which a lot of people are saying these days.

You can use the ‘toll road’ example. On the bay bridge in California people have been known to occasionally pay for the car behind them, as a sort of random act of kindness. Every time this has happened to me I’ve done the same for the person behind me, hoping to start a chain of random generosity.

I heard these two girls talking at the bar the other night as if they were super intelligent and one went on to correct the guy she was talking to that “No your wrong. Cerebral Palsy is a virus.” My point, some people are just stupid!

@peedhub: I always do that when traveling in the Bay Area :-)

Tell her that she has to go out of her way to do something for someone else, above and beyond what she already does.

darn h button….so useless :-)

>continuing to be how she is doesn’t exactly pay her debt to me in full.

If you did it for her out of kindness, I don’t see why there’s any sense of indebtedness at all. She owes you nothing.

If you did it to create an obligation, you should have made sure she understood the terms of the contract beforehand.

@Jeruba: Good point.

There’s a tradition in the Jewish religion where you do something nice for someone, totally anonymously, and the person never knows—there’s no sense of “pay back.” Even for someone else. And the highest form of this is helping to bury someone—a situation where no one could ever know or respond.

She’s not obligated to do anything. If what you did was as unexpectedly helpful and generous as you think it is, it will dawn on her at some point that she should act generously. But the point isn’t to go out and look for something to do; it’s to act accordingly when a situation arises.

Rent the movie, have her over and watch it with her. Afterwards talk about your situation with her, and tell her that’s what you had in mind when you said pay it forward.

You said: “It’s no big deal and I didn’t want this person to give me money or anything.”
and then got upset that “how she is doesn’t exactly pay her debt to me in full.”

This was not an unconditional gift since you wanted her to pay it forward. If you want to give unconditionally you have to be OK with the idea that it may have impacts you will never see and let it go.

All in all, looks like a miscommunication: she felt judged about not being generous, you felt she was stingy & dumb.

Love and generosity transcend intelligence and words. If you want to teach someone about "the gift economy", take them to lunch at a place like http://www.karmakitchen.org/. The act of giving gives people a buzz. It makes us feel virtuous and kind, but the "pay it forward" model requires us to give up control. Compared to the "pay it backwards" model, it requires more trust and uncertainty, but invites magic. The open ended quality also helps people question their own limits to generosity at their own pace.

Great article recently in the NYT about anonymous philanthropy.

I send office supplies by interoffice to people at work (work buys cheap stuff, I get better things on my own and bring them in). I recently went by one person’s cube and he had a note up thanking the anonymous person. I asked him if he wanted to know who was sending him stuff, and he said no, that it would ruin his enjoyment, and that the delight was in part that someone liked him enough to do something for him without recognition. I said I didn’t think I would want to know either, and let it go at that. Is is much more fun being a positive unknown element in someone’s day, much better than “look at how nice I am.” I feel funny even telling you all.

To defend the asker, it sounds like he didn’t have “pay it forward” in mind when doing this good deed. Only when the recipient of the kindness asked how she could pay him back did “pay it forward” come out as an idea, at least in my reading of the question. In my book, he’s still extending the goodwill by refusing payment. It’s not as though the other person is obligated to pay it forward and must have her onus explained to her in small words or her contract is void – it’s more like she doesn’t understand the difference between being generally nice as opposed to making a special effort to help out a person in need.

Chances are if she is not smart enough to grab the concept then it is possible that she will not see the situation when it arises.
It’s a pretty simple concept really. Try explaining the Americanized version of “Karma” to her. Most people have heard of that and seem to grab on to it due to it’s coolness vibe and stoned hippy chatter.
When someone in this life does something nice for you…Do the same for another to help make the world a better place.

@Alfreda, I can relate to that. One year a woman at work was really on hard times. I found out her address and mailed her a Christmas card anonymously, with cash inside. I took care to misspell the name of her town so she wouldn’t guess it was from me. A few days later she thanked the anonymous donor aloud at a staff meeting.

Later my manager came to me excitedly and said, “We’re trying to guess who sent her the money, and we’ve got it narrowed down to two people, L— and E—. Which do you think is more likely?” I just said, “I don’t know.”

I didn’t want the recipient to guess who the donor was, but it made me feel funny to think that the group had already decided it couldn’t possibly be me.

This is the first time I have ever told this to anyone, including my husband.

@jeruba, but don’t you think recognition would felt even weirder? It sort of negates the purpose of doing the good thing. And both L & E know they didn’t do it. You’re part of a Christmas mystery!

Oh, yes, @Alfreda. And I didn’t want the recipient to know. It would have felt funny for her. I just wondered why I’d been completely ruled out as a candidate. They must have said, “J—? Naw, couldn’t possibly be.” Maybe my boss was delegated to test me and see how I reacted, but I made sure my acting was the very best.

I think some people do a better PR job on their “goodness.” I’d like to know the selection process, too. What made these people likely candidates? Extra money? Churchiness? Girl Scout leader?

One was perceived as being chummy with the recipient, although she didn’t really mean to be; the recipient had chosen her to cling to. The other was probably thought of as an exceptionally sympathetic person, which indeed I believe she was.

I did not have money to burn either. I was carrying a heavy debt at the time and was not long out of the kind of straits she was in. The fact that I was no longer in big trouble made me really feel for someone who was. Maybe they knew I couldn’t spare it, and so that ruled me out. But having had some real hard times myself always makes me want to give it away when I can to folks who need it, however imprudent that may be toward my own future. And that’s not about karma or debts. It’s just about knowing what it’s like and understanding how much difference a little help can make.

There’s some good ideas in here. Scamp, I didn’t even realize it was a movie. It’s just what my mom taught me to do. Nice suggestion on the karmakitchen, Ort.

Laureth has it most right on up there.

There is a debt to paid when terms are given.

It’s like saying. You can pay me back by giving me a dollar. Then she says, “well I’ve already given you a dollar before so my debt is paid”. Transactions don’t work like this.

I was not expecting payment and I just think ‘pay it forward’ is a great concept. I thought of it on the spot when she brought up payment.

Sometimes, I say “don’t worry about it.” I didn’t say that this time. I was actually asking her to do a nice deed for one of her acquaintances (random stranger, etc.)

Keep in mind, she could have said, “Oh, yea, whatever… SURE I’ll pay it foward,” and I would have considered the debt paid.