What of the Simply Secular?

I stopped being Catholic when I was 11. I’d say I know quite a bit. And I do care because theology is interesting to me. I am now agnostic and ‘try to be a good person’.

For those that fall into your definition of simply secular, I don’t mind. Doesn’t seem strange to me. To each their own.

I don’t like generalizations. I agree with Aug.

I think your friend is an agnostic or an atheist, whether they identify as one or not. I don’t think it matters in any significant way though.

I was brought up under a Catholic regime,what a violent lot they really are.
The fear of God was very literal and i ran a mile from Religion as soon as i had the choice.
I have no desire for any form of religion at all.
It would seem,even today that Religion causes more trouble than it’s worth.
It also seems that the people at the top are very well off,while taking donations of charity from the less well off.
Furthermore,why are there so many different Religions?
THEY ALL WANT A PIECE OF THE PIE!
Its a commodity worth starting wars for.
It’s a good buisness with big returns for very little outlay.

@oasis: Despite the bad, religion is responsible for a huge amount of charity work and good will in the world no matter what particular religion it is. As for rich taking from the poor, all organizations attract corruption, generally it is not the case. And as for why there are so many of them…there are almost seven billion people in the world, all different cultures backgrounds and everything. How can you expect one religion to fit all? Besides, even if there was one religion that started them all it would eventually splinter. It’s like when you play telephone as a kid, with each repetition down the line the original message gets more and more muddled. It’s a fault, but an inevitable one.

You sound kind of bitter.

@asmonet,not bitter,just a view point that i cant see the point!

I follow the rules of a learned life.

You gave me the impression of being bitter by your choice of words.

“Regime”
“Violent”
You think that the Church is essentially ripping off low income members, and that fundamentally they are all created in order to earn money.

Seems bitter. At best, cynical.

@asmonet,like i say,just a viewpoint,i hold no grudge.

“Secular” people, by turning away from matters of faith and religion, are making a very specific philosophical choice that is equally considerate of society’s notions of the supernatural. I mean, it is their own reaction to religious ideas. If they are trying to “be a good person” by their own rules without caring whether or not a god exists, they are actually subscribing to a system of morals and beliefs. They don’t define themselves in relation to religious groups, even though they probably could.

I think it’s impossible to ignore the spiritual aspect of life for long. A crisis can push even the most ardent of believers to question their faith or non-faith in a god. A person who insists that they don’t want to relate their own personal beliefs to those of a group is being indifferent to the group, not to their internal moral and philosophical beliefs. Eventually, I think, most people strive to articulate their beliefs.

“Secular” is just another label that we can use to define our beliefs, but it doesn’t really relate to personal belief. A secularist is someone who believes that religion is not welcome in the public domain (politics, government, etc). A secular person or organization is one that practices this ethic by dissociating from religious organizations. Religion is different from faith. A secular person can be faithful to some higher being, but he or she will stay away from organized religion. But the faith (or non-faith) remains.

Forgive my ramblings. I’m not really an expert on this topic, so I expect to be burned at the stake for some of this.

Jesus Christ was a good Union Leader.

@shadling21: Good answer. I see what you mean, but does that imply that folks as I describe above do have beliefs or non-beliefs, they just choose to drop out of the discussion completely?

@cprevite- Well, in my opinion, everyone has beliefs, whether or not they choose to discuss them in public (or even in private). I have trouble imagining someone confronting (as we all do) the ideas of god, sin, and the afterlife, and not forming an opinion on these topics.

I don’t think “secular” is a definition of beliefs, it simply means “outside of the church.” Beliefs can always be defined in some way or another. Agnostic, atheist, humanist, whatever.

@PupnTaco: That’s right, but what of people who say, “I’m nothing” or none of the above?

I think another possibility is being left out of this discussion. A person can not identify with any specific religious group, but still hold spiritual beliefs. Those may or may not involve a creator (a god). Other options are someone who believes in the interconnected web of life as a sacred concept or someone who worships the Earth or nature.

I feel as fine about them or anyone who secular or the now vilified secular humanist as I do about those of more conventional religious faith. I have found good and bad people in all those walks. I actually don’t evaluate people on what their faith may be. It has not proven to be a valuable criteria to me.

@Marina: Well that is very true.

I think shadling21 is on to something.

I’m thinking, at this point, they (as you say) hold spiritual beliefs – they simply choose not to articulate them to others (or maybe, themselves).

PS: Marina, It’s nice to see you frequenting Fluther again.

@cprevite Thanks. I was delighted to see your thought-provoking question today. I have missed my Fluther friends. And I agree that shadling21 made the point well.

@Marina – Well said. Is the idea that a person’s morality is more important than their religious beliefs a secular one, do you think? It certainly goes against the Catholic notion that if you don’t believe in a certain version of God, you will not get an easy pass into Heaven.

And yes, thanks for the thought-provoking question.

@shadling21 Remember some of the 2008 questions in this arena and the intense responses they generated? Here’s one of augustlan’s that got 139responses. I can’t find it, but I think stevenB had a similar one.

I think there is a lot of meat here and, for some people, a lot of heat.

Viva Fluther!

@Marina – Yes, I’ve noticed that religion always provides an interesting Fluther thread. I came here after augustlan’s question, but I’ve seen many debates since then that have gotten quite heated.

You didn’t really answer my question. Were you trying to direct me to your older responses?

@shadling Sorry, I started down a road, and then trailed off. Although many religions associate morality with their faith, I personally do not.

I have seen many self-described religious people who were not moral or ethical by most any standards—even those they profess to, and many people who were good,moral, upstanding people, but who were not believers.

@cprevite: if they say they believe in nothing, odds are they’re either agnostic or atheist.

@PupnTaco:…and just don’t know it yet. More to the point, I’ve been told they simply have no desire to figure it out.

File under “apathetic agnostic?”

@PupnTaco: I like that. :^)

My husband asked my mother (Japanese) where she thought she would go when she died, and where she thought people came from (how created) and what our purpose on earth.

She said, “I can’t know, but I can be respectful and kind, pass the bread please”.