I can't stand this anymore! And I can't help!

Wow… sounds fucked nothing you can do? besides physical violence? which I probably would condone but it sounds as if you are not in your country of origin…

Are you in the US? I don’t understand the Polish part.

If you’re in the US go to a phone booth and call anonymously. If you’re in Poland, no use beating up the guy cause he won’t know why he is getting it since you can’t tell him.

Move? Since you can’t contact the police, is there some sort of Child Services you could contact?

Well they stopped now but from what my gf found out from neighbours this has been going on ever since the kid was born (9 years). The guy just shouts, the child cries, then he shouts even louder to make it shut up. I mean doesn’t he just get it after 9 years that his method isn’t working? Of course I’ve lost my temper with my daughter a couple of times, we all do. But he is really abusive and it really is so common. And all the poor kid does is just cower in the corner and cry. I can hear it all (even though I don’t understand the words). The mother does not get involved (probably too scared). Though nobody has ever heard him fighting with her.

yes, I am in Poland and I am Australian. I don’t even live in the country anymore (just here visiting). What surprises me is that nobody else seems to care. My gf found out that some of the neighbours talked to the guy and to the police ages ago, but nothing happened and it went on. I assume the police here treat domestic violence as none of their business, and everyone else is too scared to get involved. From my recent experience with the system, it simply doesn’t work, and nobody cares enough to fix it.

Gosh you must feel awful right now. I was raised in Germany, in an area with a high Polish population and (no offense to anyone Polish or of such heritage, I know it sounds very generalized) it really seemed that in their particular culture domestic violence is kept behind closed doors in a don’t ask, don’t tell manner. Every so often a wife or kid would run around with a black eye, stairs or door of course, and no one bothered.

Dunno what to say really. Maybe you should take the guy around the corner for a good “talking to” if you catch my meaning.

On the other hand, he’ll only go home and live it out on his kid again :(

Wish I had better advise.

Find an agency you can report this to – accept the things you cannot change and have the courage to change the things you can.

My heart goes out to you and the child. You need to take action on this. Well done for writing.

go Crocodile Dundee on his ass!

Shit, that’s awful… I feel like TaoSan has a point, that if you do happen to show aggression on the guy, he might do much worse things to his kid. It really sucks though, and he needs to realize that it is not an effective way to care for a child… If you can get the point across that would change the kids life

@Jack: Will you and your gf be able to live with yourselves if something horrible happens to that child and you did nothing? If she’s not supposed to be living there, perhaps the actual lessee can make a call. Or maybe the call to the police should just state that there’s a horrible fight going on upstairs, come quickly – let them decipher the situation when they arrive. It seems that a child protective agency would be more concerned with the welfare of the child and less with your (or your gf’s) living situation.

I’m not familiar with the laws of the country so all this is conjecture, but no matter what the country, child abuse is wrong. Having read how badly you want to be with your daughter again; imagine that were her up there. What would you want the neighbors to do?

Pay phone + 911 = Problem Solved.

@bythebay & Asmonet

how is all that going to work with a guy in Poland that doesn’t speak Polish?

Their secondary language in school is Russian not English

The only way to help is to get a paper trail and to get the authorities involved.
Contact child protection services. Yes- it can be done anonymously.

And when it happens again call 911 EVERY TIME IT HAPPENS.
Each call will add paper reports that will collectively give the courts power to act and protect the boy.

Do NOT get personally involved. Never personally confront an abuser. Not only will you put yourself in danger but you will make it WORSE for the victim. A discussion with you will not help.

PAPER TRAIL. 911, Child Protective Services. Do it for the kid.

@Dog: You are so right!
@TaoSan: I believe the girlfriend speaks polish. If not; I’m sure they can say the address and learn to say “child in danger”.
Tourists visit countries everyday where they don’t speak the native language, where there’s a will there’s a way.

@bythebay

Not that I don’t agree that something need be done.

However, maybe they’re illegal or whatever we don’t know. It’s one thing to sit here and judge and another thing to sit in a Eastern Europe apartment complex, not speaking the language, not being supposed to be there for whatever reasons, and knowing that interventions by the natives have been fruitless in the past.

Sometimes you can’t fight the battle, no matter how righteous it would be.

Just trying to keep the perspective

@TaoSan: You make some great points, but they have choices and options; it doesn’t sound like the child has any. I’m not disagreeing with you at all though.

@bythebay

Believe me I’m with ya all the way. It’s a horrible situation. Maybe recruiting another neighbor would be an approach.

Does 911 work in other countries?

Sounds like a bad situation no matter which way you look at it

@fireside

nope, 9 1 1 is very unique to the US

In the EU, there are currently efforts to establish 112 as unified emergency number for all countries, but it is still in the making

1. thank you all for your answers and especially for caring more than the neighbours do
2. 911 doesn’t work here (I think 112 does), but it doesn’t matter. I have the police number. They didn’t give a shit about my daughter being kidnapped. You think they’ll care about this kid?
3. I don’t speak Polish, or else I’d talk to the guy
4. I spoke to my gf when she came home, she says that, among other things, he is this huge bouncer type and that’s why everyone in the building is scared to talk to him.
5. What’s a child protection agency? You mean like the guys I’m currently taking to court for not doing their job to protect my own kid? I’ve been trying to contact them since Christmas. All I got was a generic “we don’t give a shit” letter.

And Tao no, I do have an EU passport as well and can stay as long as I want in the country. I’m just not supposed to be in this flat (and neither is my gf, for a very complicated legal reason). It belongs to her dad, but her dad doesn’t want to get involved and besides, what would he say? He hasn’t really heard anything because he doesn’t live here. And he’s too old to be involved anyway. I was just hoping that at least one of the over 50 other people in this block would care enough to call. And above all the child’s mother, who apparently is not abused herself, and just stands by and watches all this. She probably thinks it’s a good thing that her son gets it instead of herself.

@Jack79: I don’t understand then; if there is NOTHING you can do…nothing at all…then why did you ask for help?

I guess you have no recourse other than to let the child die at the hands of the abusive parent and turn a blind eye.

Is it possible to befriend the child? If so, a child of that age may be able to direct you to a relative, teacher, or other trusted adult in their life.

I am sorry, you are in fact right bythebay. I was just so frustrated at the time, and I was online, so I had to at least tell someone.

I guess if I was to form this as a question would be “what would you do if you were the neighbours?”. But of course the answer is pretty clear: In the US you’d call 911, and even in Poland you’d try and call the police. Except that I don’t have these choices. And I guess all the time I’m subconsciously thinking about my own child again, which is why I feel so involved. I’ve never even seen the kid, and I don’t live here, I’m just visiting for a couple of days.

If you don’t do something about, you are as guilty as him!

cardinal,
while I understand what you are saying, and I agree that others should not stand by and do nothing, there are times when options are limited, especially in a foreign country where the laws are different and the consequences are questionable.
And, while I don’t know the culture he lives in, sometimes culture determines the amount of intervention and what kind of intervention.
I am not condoning the abuse…....or sitting by and doing nothing, but, what I am trying to say, there are times when the situation is such that a bystander has limited options.
I don’t think Jack should be made to feel guilty for something he has no control over. His concern indicates he is willing to assist, the circumstances stand in his way.
Better to try to find solution than to critisize, I would think.

It’s a sad state of affairs worldwide when “doing what’s right” isn’t on your option list for whatever reason.

I doubt that we will find too many cases of lawbreakers turning in other lawbreakers.

His infraction may be higher on the list of laws than yours, but you are still both on the list.

Can a group of people who live in the building be encouraged to ALL call the town’s child protective services or the police at once, when he does this again? I’d bet 5 or 6 calls at once would do the trick. This man may be able to kick anybody’s ass, but he can’t kick everybody’s ass!

Group intervention! Good luck.

Pekenoe
A sad state of affairs is right. Doing the right thing should always be an option.

1st off… if he has to yell at the kid to stop crying more than once, then hes obviously not hitting him hard enough to worry about.

2nd… I don’t care how big the guy is, why can’t you go up there (with your g/f as a translator) and tell him to beat his kid quieter. His noise is screwing up “movie night” at your place.

3rd… If the mother doesn’t get hit then what makes you think the kid does.

4th… If the kid has been getting treated the same way his entire life when’s he going to catch on? Why is he still acting all shocked about getting yelled at?

5th… Please don’t feed up the “there’s nothing I can do” line. As a human there’s ALWAYS something you can do if you REALLY wanted to. If fear is stopping you then so be it but don’t skirt around the fact.

6th… If this guy really is the typical child/wife beater then beating his ass will definitely recoil on his family. You think he’s being mean to the kid now? Wait until he’s super pissed off.

7th… Calling someone is a popular suggestion. The problem with that is you’re a foreigner. Nobody there cares about your opinion on anything.

8th… Involving the neighbors isn’t an option. As you said, you aren’t supposed to be there so I doubt you’ve made a lot of friends on the block. I don’t know of many people who would stick their neck out for a foreigner who has never spoken to them, doesn’t even speak their language, and is suddenly asking for help to quiet a large screaming man.

9th… If it’s a conscience issue then go upstairs. If it’s a noise issue then buy these.

10th… Damn, I really wanted 10 things. Oh well. Nine will have to do.

@TaoSan: Emergency and non-emergency calls can be recorded. In the case of non-emergency, I’m sure they have one person in the department who speaks enough english to understand and address and “FATHER BEATING SON.” Even if that’s not the case, he could crack open a travel dictionary, or have his girlfriend write it out for him, or even simpler she could do it.

eh, bythebay beat me to it.

@asmonet

just being devil’s advocate on this one. Having being exposed to the culture my guess is they simply wouldn’t give a crap and hang up, sorry :s

Sakata, thanks for trying to lighten up the conversation a bit.
I find it interesting that people just assume it is so easy to pick up the phone and dial 911. It probably is in the States. Which makes me happy for children living there.

In my case, it really is not an option. Trust me. In the best case scenario, I will simply be ignored. But thanks anyway.

There are millions of reasons not to do the right thing. That is why pretty much no one ever does.

From personal experience, what I’ve found that actually works is yell ”HIT ‘EM HARDER!!!” I’ve done that numerous times when I see some parent scolding their child. They generally feel ashamed about being caught and (for a brief moment) they realize what they’re doing and take a step back.

In all honesty I figured out this method worked not because I was trying to help but because that kid was being a huge pain in the ass. I was being serious and “HIT HIM HARDER” wasn’t a joke, but whatever.

Well even though I don’t speak the language, whatever that kid has done does not deserve what I’m hearing. And I don’t know if the guy is beating him or not, but the verbal abuse is just too much.

Your suggestion sort of worked for me in the army. I was a nurse for a while and soldiers kept coming over with cuts, and I eventually discovered this was because some lunatic cook decided it was a good idea to throw knives at them if they weren’t working hard enough. So I talked to the guy and told him if he could at least throw vegetables or something, since I was running out of plasters and if the wound was serious, I wouldn’t be able to stitch someone up since the doctor was away. It worked.

This one won’t. The best case scenario is they’ll ignore me. The worst case scenario I’ll be arrested myself.

On Monday I am pressing charges against the local authorities for not protecting my daughter who was KIDNAPPED, not simply shouted at. Do you seriously think that calling them two days earlier to ask them to help me with this child I’ve never even met is a good idea?

@Jack79

For some reason I’m starting to get worried about you disappearing over not, no joke :/

Then do what everyone else does… walk away. Fuck ‘em. Who cares? Got enough issue in your own life without dealing with some stupid 9 year old.

M-o-v-e a-l-o-n-g

Actually in the best case scenario in your view, you will be ignored but at least you’ll have done right by the child.

You know what, send a typed letter in Polish, your chick can do it. Fib a bit if you must say you saw it happening outside the building and have heard it as well. Send it anonymously. There, done.

lmao… a 9 y/o told me “good job” and gave me the Chuck Norris thumbs up. Yea, I got my ass beat, thrown in jail, raped, and deported, but it was all worth it.

@Sakata

ROFL my ass off

Sorry guys, serious topic, but that made me lol

I’m trying to imagine what it would be like to be living with uncertain legality in an apartment in another country, where I don’t speak the language, and I’m not sure about the integrity of the police, and I hear a child being abused.

I’m not the kind of guy who can confront anybody physically, but I can often get my way, despite that. In one case, to protect my brother from abuse, I negotiated a buy-out with the guy who was giving him a hard time. Better lose a bit of money than my brother.

Another time, the neighbors all got together to confront one of us who was disturbing us in a variety of ways. It was tough to get them organized. No one wanted to do it, but after a while, they realized they had to.

I had a roommate once who was making life miserable for the rest of us. One of the roommate’s boyfriends was a tough guy, and we got together, and told the jerk to move out if he knew what was good for him. He did.

You have limited options there. I was thinking you could mug the guy one night when he’s outside, preferably coming back from the pub. Maybe break an leg, so it’s hard for him to chase the kid around.

I thought you could talk to the neighbors, and see how they feel about it. If there is anger, you could try to organize them. You could also have the gf talk to any Polish agency that might be involved with kids to see what they can do. There may also be some private agencies that could advise you in a situation like this.

You could also complain about the noise, and tell the guy you’ll burn down his apartment if you hear noise again. Remind him that you live right below him. You’d have to do a crazy act to carry this one off. But everyone knows Ozzies are crazy, right?

Ethically, I think you have to try something. It’ll weigh on your mind for a while, maybe even a long time, if you leave Poland without having tried.

Anyway, good luck with that. You’re gonna need it.

well thanks for all the answers anyway :)

Update from a couple of days ago: guy is a cop. No wonder nobody dares call the police. And his wife is part of the problem too. The kid is just doomed.

well it seems to me that beating the shit out of him is counterproductive