What's the point of being obnoxiously religious?

Why does it bother you so much? Why not just live and let live?

Repent, Syz!

All just insecurity. They talk to an imaginary friend resembling an old bearded man living in heaven listening to billions of people’s plight everyday as in “god let me pass this exam”, “lord don’t let soandso get sick”. How do you expect them to be?

The biggest bullies are usually the most insecure on the inside. They’re not trying to convince others, they try to convince themselves.

There’s nothing wrong with being religious. What’s wrong is when people are slap-you-in-the-face religious. I work with a woman who’s like that. One time, her shirt popped open in front of a customer (not a pretty sight do your ears hang low, do they tumble to and fro?), and she said it happened because “the devil made her wear that shirt.”

A lot of times, it’s because they have a personal interpretation, rather than knowing what is really said, for example, in the Bible. This same woman refuses to drink alcohol, which, hey, is fine if that’s you. People have their reasons. But her reason is that the Bible says you shouldn’t. which is not the case. I asked her how that sync’d up with Jesus turning water to wine and Paul telling Timothy to take some wine for his stomach illness (it’s in there) and she had no answer. She just thought that’s what it says.

so, i guess that’s ignorance.

I don’t think anyone is consciously obnoxious, and certainly not obnoxiously religious. The people you mean would probably characterise themselves as “devout” and be proud of it :)

Many people feel that they’re constantly under God’s surveillance, and that God expects them to trot their religiosity out at every occasion. No matter what kind of reaction it gets from the human in front of them, somewhere in heaven God smiles whenever the conversation turns to him, and its all about making God happy. I grew up surrounded by such folk.

I think obnoxious is really a judgment call made by the observer (over judging said behavior as sad, endearing, childish, sweet, devout, pious, proselytizing, etc.).

There definitely are people out there who keep their religion in the forefront of their minds and use it as a basis for their thoughts and actions. But there are also people who keep sports in the front of their mind and half of their conversations contain sports analogies. I don’t think that is done to make them feel more athletic, but maybe.

I also wonder about people who are avidly non-religious in their responses. Is that an attempt to convert others or to make themselves feel more intelligent, or more evolved (as I have heard)? Or is it simply keeping their viewpoint in the front of their minds and relaying that through their conversations?

Isn’t the point of an open society to allow for the free-flow of conversation? Or should certain people keep their thoughts to themselves? Do their thoughts cause any harm because they are spoken?

—
Not to say that the guys in Times Square with the megaphones and billboards of aborted fetuses don’t bug the heck out of me.

I think that I am the one who inspired her to ask this question. :)

Commandment number three of George Carlin’s revised list of commandments:

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself

Yes, and Politics is the other thing that shouldn’t be talked about in polite society.
But doesn’t that attitude really just hold society back from becoming more open and understanding?

@TaoSan George was preceded in this thought by a biblical figure who suggested that we treat our religion privately, in contrast to the hypocrites.

@fireside

Dunno, good point. Openness is certainly a desirable goal, but at some point one ventures into the realm of subjecting others to unwanted…. hm…. experiences.

I for myself, I just don’t want to hear that stuff as I simply don’t care, meaning, instead of “opening up” many will actually become more “avoiding”.

And as you mentioned in a previous post, the Football fanatics annoy me just as much. I just think enough is enough at some point.

I don’t want to witness “piety” as much as a religious person wants to hear about my latest “orgy’.

Let’s compromise and not make each other hear about our “beliefs”

I think Harp got the answer just right; without being rude, condescending, insulting or hypocritical.

Yeah I hate it when they push their evolution on me in school ed but refuse to teach all sides of origin like creation science.

Ah, SeVen, seems you lost interest in your “other” creation “SCIENCE” thread of tonight

@seVen Do they not teach World Religions? There’s more religion-based creation stories than the Judeo-Christian one.

@Grisson

Exactly, why not go with Norse cows licking ice, or Japanese goods letting tear drops fall into the oceans….

@TaoSan “Butbutbutbut… those aren’t SCIENCE!!!” :o)

Luckily, all of that knowledge is available for study at the collegiate level.
High School is about basic principles and socialization.

If someone in obnoxious, or rude, or pushy – it has nothing to do with religion.

Picture this: These folks have a Obnoxio-3000 gun they point at anyone they don’t agree with.

Some folks choose to load this gun with religion, others with politics and on and on.

It’s the behavior that bothers me, not the message.

@Grisson

You’re saying that there is a SCIENCE proclaiming that man walked the earth along with the dinosaurs?

I’m lost, creationism is science now?

Fluther uses the tilda to denote sarcasm. i think what Grisson meant was:

@TaoSan ~ “Butbutbutbut… those aren’t SCIENCE!!!” :o)
or
@TaoSan “Butbutbutbut… those aren’t SCIENCE!!!” :o) ~

Yurch, sorry, 7:18 here and I’ve been around for dudduddud 23hrs and 18 minutes now.

Time to go home I guess. Got that feeling my head is padded cotton balls zzzZZZzzz

lol, goodnight

I also agree with cprevite.

The point in having freedom of religion, expression, etc. is to be able to openly discuss what you’d like to discuss (in an appropriate setting/way). If you don’t want to discuss something with a person, then tell them so. And if they refuse to listen maybe you should just get up and leave the discussion.

But even if people continue to badger you, you can’t change them. You can try explaining why you have a problem with what they do, but if they don’t change then what can you really do? That’s just the way some people are, and though it’s unfortunate there’s not much you can do if they aren’t willing to change, except perhaps break off ties with them. That’s about the most extreme way you can display your displeasure without being nasty about it.

@fireside Correct.
Thank you for the correction. I’ve probably confused a number of jellies being unaware of that convention. My bad.
BTW, it would be good to add that convention to the entire list

@Grisson – well, it’s not so much of a markup thing as an unofficial understanding.
Maybe there should be a write in campaign to have it added, but we may also need to add the alternate meaning of pancake

@Harp – Yes, this is how I experienced it when I was growing up. I tuned it out. And the person who turned that stuff up full blast on me was the most insecure person I’ve ever known. By the time I was an adult, I got the feeling that her lectures on God were more for convincing herself that she was right, to hear herself talk, and to secure herself brownie points and gold stars from Jesus that she could cash in when she dies because she was “training up a child.” She’s a scared, sad person. A lot of scared, sad people out there doing the best they can, I get that, but proselytizing anything in such a manner turns me off, not just when religious folk do it.

I’m with @Introverted_Leo and @cprevite.

If you think that this kind of behavior only comes from religious people, then just look at some of the arguments that happen on this very site. Religion isn’t the only category with obnoxious people. There are plenty of obnoxious atheists, just as there is an ample suppy of obnoxious Christians.

…and obnoxious political pundits as well

I think who you’re talking about are the hardcore Evangelicals. The whole philosophy of evangelicalism is that God’s purpose for you is to spread His word…these people feel they are called upon to act as missionaries, and it’s hard to convince someone who believes this that they should keep their opinions to themselves, because to do so would be to deny the will of God.

So their purpose is to take the Word to others, and convert them into Evangelicals similar to themselves, to spread the Word to others…

This sounds a bit like a virus.

Evangelism… My preacher said evangelism is the same as marketing. That works for me. I don’t like marketing people much either.

@Harp Does it bother you are are you pro?

@90s_kid Are you asking whether I’m bothered by being around people who often bring up religion? Actually, no, not so much. I’m very interested in religion as part of the human experience; I think it teaches us a lot about us, so I’m happy to hear people’s religious views. It is a bit awkward if they’re expecting me to come around to their way of thinking; if their looking for a convert, they’re going to be disappointed.

Yes, that is what I was asking. the first are should have been “or”.
By the way, why are you whispering?

Perhaps you are being obnoxiously anti-religious by that statement.
You believe all faiths should co-exist. That is your opinion. Most faits would say that they are the ONLY truth. That is their opinion. Do you concede your opinion should be held above theirs?

The point of being ‘obnoxiously religious’ is that you have a strong set of beliefs that you believe with all your heart to be perfect truth. Believing that will mean you disagree on some points with others. When that happens there is really only one useful solution unity in diversity saying ‘ok well we disagree but let us discuss our differing opinions’ otherwise the irreligious or the not-so-convicted come up with phrases like ‘obnoxiously religious’.

Shall I stand in the middle of the quad and scream a fire and brimstone service, spraying spittle on students as I accuse them of being fornicators and sinners? Does that serve a purpose?

Shall I attend a church that votes on new members and turns away a 12 year old girl because she’s black? How does that serve religion?

Shall I answer every question on fluther with a knee jerk religious reference that has only a passing resemblance to the topic of the question? Does that create converts?

Shall I knock on your door at 9 am on a Saturday and tell you that my religion is the only true religion and I know that because a bunch of old white guys said so? Would you believe me?

Shall I cry on TV that God is calling me home unless I raise some millions of dollars? Does anyone believe that that is truth?

Oh, no. I refuse to accept the challenge that I am being “obnoxiously anti-religious”. I will happily have a spirited, positive debate with you about your beliefs. And I will fight with everything that I am to support your right to hold those beliefs, and express those beliefs. But I contend that the mostly loudly proclaiming and most narrow minded believers do nothing but damage any institution of religion.

@syz
Great answer. Then I agree with you. Often the most loudly shouting and most violent are those in “the major religions’. Many a bad thing are done in the name of religion. Take the crusades for instance.

There is a bitter-sweet irony to the world though, in with all this the major aid organisations are founded by… the faiths. The Red Cross was the first aid organisation and just looking at my own country the major chemist is a christian foundation, the first childrens aid agency, the fight against slavery…

I was not intending to label you “obnoxiously anti-religious” just a proponent of such an extreme phrase meant in its entirity. I was trying to make the point clear that perhaps in trying to defend all faiths the statement ‘obnoxiously religious’ actually offends them. I was by the term and so would the Muslim. Not because you intended it, but because with it you denied what we hold dear – namely our unique claims on the truth.

Thank you, jayson, I appreciate you expounding on your point. I suppose I could substitute “bigotry” or “narrow mindedness” or “intellectual inflexibility” just as easily as “religiously obnoxious” and still maintain the same argument.

My own opinions on religion have been formed by a lifetime of exposure to those types of scenarios (and many, many, many more). The sad fact of the matter is that those types of experiences far outweigh the occasions when I see people acting on their faith rather than professing it.

I agree, ignore the loud ones.

When my preacher closes the service with a benediction, she often says, “Go out and spread the Good News. Use words if you have to.”

NC’s state motto is ‘Esse Quam Videri’ (‘To Be, Rather Than To Seem’). I like that.

The best judge of a religion is not the proponents of it but the holy books by which they ‘claim’ to act. The question is is the Bible / Qur’an ‘obnoxious’, ‘narrow minded’, intellectually inflexible’? They both claim to have the only grasp of truth but that is not necessarily narrow minded. Atheism says, now-a-days all religion is correct which is in itself a claim for a grasp on truth the others do not have. Is Jesus or Mohammed ‘narrow minded’ & ‘intellectually inflexible’?

Because it’s the only way to be religious.

Are you sure that they’re really being obnoxiously religious, and not simply rubbing you the wrong way?

those people who answer everything with a religious reference
Perfectly natural, when you live your faith (which you’re supposed to, by the way). How you react to something depends on your paradigm.

who aggressively push their own views
Can’t speak for all faiths here, but us Christians (you’re thinking of Christians, aren’t you?) sort of have evangelism on a high priority. Not only is it mandated, it’s the logical outcome of a consideration of your beliefs. The saved get to spend eternity hanging out with the King. The unsaved do not, and the Bible suggests that this is a fate worse than death. So what do you, as a nice guy, do? Let ‘em burn so that they aren’t inconvenienced by your religious view-sharing?

who denigrate anyone who disagrees.
Not sure if we’re thinking of the same thing when you say “denigrate.”
This may come as a bit of a surprise to you, but no faith agrees with any other faith. They’re all mutually exclusive. Which means that one is going to be right, and the rest are going to be Hell-damningly wrong. Evil, even.

Is this some bizarre, misguided attempt to convert people (by alienating them?!?)
Clearly, not everybody is alienated.

or are they just proving to the world how pious they are?
There’s actually a lot of this, though obviously not every case. It’s an old problem that arises naturally from human nature, and so must be curbed. These people are typically managed through prayer and counseling and their own conviction, though they’ll also sometimes leave in a huff if all they really want is to be self-righteous to people.