Can Muslims date non-Muslims?

I have several Muslim friends and here is what I’ve learned from them. If a man wants to marry a woman who is Muslim but he is not of that religion himself, he has to convert to Islam to marry her.

Now, if a woman not of the Islamic faith wants to marry a Muslim man, she doesn’t have to convert. But, in the cases I’ve heard about, the woman did convert to Islam after marrying a Muslim man on each occasion.

As far as a Muslim man taking multiple wives, yes, this is still a common practice in some Middle Eastern, Arab, and some African countries but rarely seen in westernized countries. From what I’ve been told by my Muslim friends, if a man takes on multiple wives, he has to be able to provide for each of them EQUALLY.

What you might want to do is pick his brain sooner rather than later regarding some of what you asked here so there aren’t any uncertainties or surprises later on. And the very best of luck to you in your future relationship.

Lots of people do what their parents do. Many people also rebel, and do the opposite of what their parents do. Some people start out trying to be different, and realize that they’re ending up “just like their parents.”

If his family is pretty orthodox (and it sounds like they are), he (and you, if you hook up) might catch flack for not fitting into the mold. Also, if he was raised in that way, he might have some ideas about how to treat women. You may need to think about how willing you are to deal with that. He may also need to think about whether he is willing to accept a woman who may not behave in a way he has come to expect.

If you are both willing to overlook things to be with each other, that bodes well. However, there will probably need to be a lot of compromise, and probably some surprises as expectations come to light. Needless to say, if he’s not that into dating a non-Muslim, none of this will matter.

Something to think about also: would his not-being-a-Christian bother you much? He may not want to change, if that’s what you think you might want him to do. (He may, he may not.) Are you OK with your mate not believing in your Way?

I’d advise having those conversations. :)

Do some reading on his country and on the Muslim culture there. Ask him about his family ties. Ask him about where he plans to live.

This is not impossible, but you need to have your eyes wide open. I know of several cases in which men who behaved one way in the states had very different expectations once the woman was their wife.

Here is one reference that might give you an idea of the types of issues you are facing.

Here is another Excerpt:
“With Christian or Jewish women, who are resident of “dar
a-harb”****, the nikah (the marriage contract) will be valid,
but will be a “mukrooh Tahrimi” (worse than tanzihi) situation.
The act which is “mukrooh tarhimi” is so close to “haraam” (not
permissible at all) that it is ALMOST “haraam” and is “na’jaiz”
ie. not legal. The man involved will be responsible for
committing an act which is so close to a state of “sin”.
**** Victor Danner describes “Dar al-Islam” as : the
House of Islam, or the Islamic world; the Islamic
community, where submission to the Divine Will reigns;
Opposed to dar- al-harb ( the non-Islamic community)

3— It is required that the women should be practising their
religion at the time of marriage and they are not practically
“Mulhid” (atheist). To any women, who doesn’t believe in God,
religion, God’s message and doesn’t practise any religion at
all, the “nikaah” (marriage) will be INVALID and according to
“shari’ah” (Islamic Law), such a couple is involved in sin.”

My best friend’s father is Muslim and mother is Christian. They are still happily married and neither converted.

That said, a lot of Muslims who date outside their religion do expect their partner to convert. They might not care as much, but their family/community does. As others have pointed out, he might have a very different take on how to treat a woman than say an American man. I also know of certain Muslim men who dated non-Muslim women for a bit only to say in the end “I am sorry, but I need to marry a Muslim girl and my family will not accept you” and move on.

The point is, the couples that have worked have clear communication and stuck up for what they believed right from the beginning. The couples that didn’t work are those who were so busy being infatuated or “in love” to discuss their core principles and dealbreakers.

whoa way to scare a guy off! you are not even dating yet and you guys want her to ask him about marriage? I wouldn’t ask him any of these questions yet to be honest. If he is in the United States and he is interested in dating there is a good chance he is not really interested in getting married (considering his families traditional views) in fact there is a pretty good chance his family is already arranging some kind of marriage for him back home. Yes, if his dad has more than one wife he probably also believes in arranged marriages. This is not uncommon in some countries.
I know that in Uzbekistan (where my fiance is from originally) about 80% of women are married like this. She told me that this one guy who was one of the first exchange students to the U.S. came here, met some women etc. And the day he got back his parents introduced him to his new wife which he never met.
So anyways my point is, the rules of relationships people play by in other countries are totally different from what we are use to. So don’t make any assumptions. He is in the U.S. and he may legitimately be more modern minded than his family back home and that is exactly what he wants is an American wife. But it could be the complete opposite. If you are interested in this guy I would say just go for it for now, find out later exactly what he is interested in exactly and if that doesn’t match up with what you want there is nothing wrong with breaking up with him.
Also just a side note, in Uzbekistan if you date someone, that means you are probably going to get married, so if he is playing by rules like that, he probably doesn’t want to date an American. But there is only one way to find out! so go for it :D

Be wary of becoming unequally yoked. “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14, KJV).

He may be a believer, but the major differences can lead to some rather interesting and complicated relationships. That’s not to say it shouldn’t be done in my book.. just be wary is all. =)

@LKidKyle1985 “there is a good chance he is not really interested in getting married (considering his families traditional views) in fact there is a pretty good chance his family is already arranging some kind of marriage for him back home.”

Umm, shouldn’t she know that now before getting seriously involved with him?

I really don’t think dating is the same as being seriously involved.

It is certainly possible to date him if he is also interested in you. I dated a couple different Muslim men while I was in college. The most successful relationship was with a man who had lived in several European countries as well as the US, and who had no plans to ever return to his country of birth. I enjoyed their company and learned some interesting things about their religion and their countries. The next most successful relationship was with a delightful Algerian who did propose. However, his family lived in a mud hut and his mother cooked over an open fire all of her life, and that is what I would have had to fit into if I accepted his proposal. We parted as friends, though, and I still fix one particular dish that his mother used to make and that he taught me so I could make it for him.

However, be aware that some Muslim men have been taught that infidel women have no status and so have no compunction about loving and leaving or even mistreating them. In some cases, they have been taught that American women are in essence whores, especially compared to how women must conduct themselves in conservative countries. I have met some of these guys, also. They are perfectly polite until you get closer to them and then they view you as a lesser creature.

While he may not have specific plans to marry multiple wives (up to four is allowed) he was raised with the belief that multiple wives is a perfectly acceptable practice. You might not see eye to eye on that.

Also, understand that a long-term relationship may only work as long as you and he stay in the US. In his home country you will be subject to the laws and cultural expectations of that place, and compared to American expectations, these are very restrictive for women. Depending on the country, you may not be allowed to drive, go out alone, or show your face in public.

And finally, should things progress so far, any children you ever have with him will belong to him in his eyes, not you, no matter what a US court might say, should you ever decide to divorce.

I would say go ahead and go out on some dates with him, get to know him and learn about his country, but don’t jump too fast into a more serious relationship.

Well God gave the freedom to choose as we wish. However the Bible states that we should not be unequally yoked, meaning that you should not date someone out of your religion.

-Sellz

You’ve just seen two Christians in this thread tell you you should not date someone out of your religion, and yet Christians and non-Christians date and get married every day.

I cannot imagine Islam having any less diversity in thought among practicing Muslims than Christianity does among practicing Christians.

So the best solution here is to bring it up to him. Find out what he thinks.

I will be the pessimist in this group and suggest that no matter what he says or what the Islamic laws allow, he will most likely want you to convert to Islam at some point if you end up marrying, because he will want his children to be muslim. That is pretty much Islamic law (kids have to be muslim). Now, if his family has a history of having multiple wives, then at some point in your marriage, you may be facing that looming threat of having an addition to your marriage. I don’t know if you would want to deal with that prospect. He may swear up and down now that that will never happen, but if you live in a foreign country (once you get married) he can do what he pleases. You can always divorce him too though (by Islamic law). That’s the extent of my knowledge. I thought I would throw some cold water on this topic so at least you are forewarned (forewarned is forearmed).

But I do hope it all works out for you.

I disagree whole-heartedly, @cwilbur. That is not the norm,especially if the man you are interested in is Muslim-American. I know, personaly, 2 muslim men married to Christian women who’s children are Muslim. One of the women just recently converted by personal choice(10 years after the fact), the other is still a practicing Christian. It depends on the person, but especially in regards to men, the religion allows intermarriage with Christians and Jews, provided the children are Muslim.

@eupatorium: You seem to be disagreeing with something I did not say.

@cwilbur, I apologize. The comment was intended for Siren. :/
I misread.

@eupatorium: And I have hung out with muslims my entire life. That is the basis from which I form my comment. But, like you said, each individual is different. Still, like I said, better to be forewarned and forearmed (ie worse case scenario).

The religious differences are one thing that she would need to cope with, but then there are the cultural differences, since this man is from the Middle East and not raised in the US. The latter can be the real problem, especially if she were to end up going to live in his country.

Big eye-opener, that!

I would definitely say it depends on what sect they belong to and how liberal or conservative they and their immediate family are. Below is a story of an incident that goes pretty well with this question. Sadly…

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2007/may/22/news/chi-stonemay22

Hi .. you should read this article..
I am an Ex-Muslim, I live in Pakistan. I love Western world and culture and people there.. All i can say is that.. Please stay away from Islam, if you want to live in freedom and want a better future for your children..

please read this:

http://www.islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/Heart-breaking-Tale-of-American-Woman-Encounter-with-Islam.htm

According to that Muslim, you are an Infidel.. He will Definitely act as a VERY polite and nice man, but once he shows his real religion, you will feel trapped..

See what Muslims think of non-Muslims = http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/kafir/

Kafir is technically a non-Muslim, but muslim show others that Kafir are not non-Muslims, because its in Islam to lie to non-Muslims..

Beware, you will be trapped in your life… I left Islam, so i am telling you the real things about Islam, what a muslim will never tell and they never recognize. Even if they murder people, they will still say Islam is peaceful. In my city many Christian girls are raped by Muslim men to convert them to Islam..

Be safe.

First of all to answer someones earlier statement most American women are hoz, thats why they cling to Christianity because Christians have NO sence of morality whatsoever, so they fit in! I have yet to meet one decent American Christian Woman. Your talking about the same people whom go into church then blow their husband off on the way home after mass..Yeah a real great religion add that to the the belief in the trinity. Secondly Christians started ALL the problems in the Holy Land, anyone remember the crusades(3 million dead)? The biggest act of terror that everyone in the west seems to brush under the table….The swine that goes by the name Richard Anderson left Islam because he likes this sick American fake capitalist cesepool with no morals. He wanted more “freedom” to be a pig and not feel guitly to do do. Islam respects women and life to a point the west (and he) never will. To answer Siren In Islam all people are born Muslim its just a matter of accepting Islam and not being an idiot. Why do muslim women not dress like Hoz because they don’t want mongoloid Americans drooling all over the floor and thinking about them three hours later in their bathroom with a fistfull of tissues and an angry hand. Why do muslims resist occupation? Gee why do you think? Americans how would you like a massive overwhelming Chinese invasion? How would you like people forcing beliefs and a shitty form of government(that doesn’t even work for your own people) down your throats? Think about the shit you morons say and stop being naive!!!!

@Muslimim. Do you feel better now that you’ve insulted Americans and Christianity, made improper character judgements about people you know nothing about, forced your questionable opinions on us in a rather arrogant matter, disrespected women in general, composed an answer that is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, and started down the path of ignominy here on Fluther?

I’ve never had to post a negative answer like this on Fluther before but I’m quite taken aback and offended by some of your comments and I had to make an exception in this case.

@Muslimim – If you treat everyone around you as if they are “hos” then that is what you will see. Decent people will get as far away from you as possible.

@Bluefreedom: Flag it as flame-bait and move on. Some people are ignorant by choice.

@Bluefreedom: Let’s not forget the previous religion-bashing comment from Richard Anderson. Both Richard Anderson and Muslimin need to learn some tolerance may not happen here on Fluther

Perhaps the final solution to the original question is: everyone is different and it’s hard to gauge how one person will behave within their own religion/family/social circle/lifestyle/culture/environment. Generalizing about one person’s behavior without knowing more about the individual’s personality tends to be inaccurate, breed inaccurate and marginalized thinking as we see here, and of course, brings out the lunatics.

@RichardAnderson, not all Muslims ought to be characterized by islam-watch.org. Many Muslims in Turkey and Indonesia, for example, practice “Islam” in quotes just like Western “Christians” practice “Christianity.” Generally, the farther away from a religion’s holy book someone is, the better off they are—and a growing number of Muslims are ignoring the Quran, just like Christians began ignoring the Bible post Enlightenment.

@Muslimim, you have some interesting ideas and I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter. Just to be clear, slutty women like Christianity rather than Islam because of the Trinity? What’s your opinion of atheist women? Are you calling my girlfriend a ho? Maybe she should convert to hard-core Islam. That way I could go into her as I wish, just as I could go into my field (Surah 2:223).

@Qingu: Having grown up with and spent a lot of time with muslims, your comment to RichardAnderson about Muslims ignoring the Quran sounds baseless to me. That holy book is their guide to moral and ethical rules. If they choose to ignore it, they are deviating from the religion. You can confirm this with any muslim authority in America (ie visit a mosque, speak to their religious leader, or “Imam”).

Secondly, I don’t think Christians have ignored the Bible. Don’t we see on tv, at any given time on a Christian network, someone quoting the Bible?

Anyways, I see where this thread is going so I think I will no longer add to it…

Do some research on sharia law you will save yourself a lot of mental anguish,abuse,violence and belittlement.

Muslim men can date non-muslim women, however, firstly you must be aware of being ‘used’ as there are very few muslim women a muslim man can date before getting married. Secondly, if you fall for him hook, line and sinker beware that you will be entering into a relationship that will be incredibly difficult as you both confront various differences in culture. Once his family gets involved the strain could be unbearable and ruin the relationship. Also, however well-intentioned he may be towards you there are certain aspects of his upbringing he may not be able to change. Many muslim men view their girlfriend or wife as their possession – they own you – you must obey him totally. For a western woman, this is only leads to great unhappiness and despair. It may be interesting to begin with but the pressure to conform to their way of thinking could break you psychologically.

@Excalibur:

Many muslim men view their girlfriend or wife as their possession – they own you – you must obey him totally.

That sounds a little too much like a biased generalization to me. I bet there are men (and women!) in America who could hold this abnormal perspective on their spouse, regardless of their culture or belief system. Try not to buy into the crap the media and networks try to feed us all the time: they usually focus on a small village in the middle of nowhere and are more concerned about ratings and politics than anything else. In my opinion things could be said (and translated!) out of context as well. Good grief!

@Siren ‘Try not to buy into the crap the media and networks try to feed us all the time:’ I don’t! I lived in the muslim world for several years! You would be surprised at how prevalent this attitude is. Very few muslim men are comfortable with a wife who behaves in a ‘western way’. And as for generalizations: they are a legitimate form of expression when one is explaining a predominant characteristic. Good grief!;)

@Excalibur: You’re perpetuating a stereotype. I know a lot of muslims also, from various countries, and this attitude is not prevailent like you suggest. Perhaps where you visited, your demographic were a bunch of assholes:

Very few muslim men are comfortable with a wife who behaves in a ‘western way’.

– they own you – you must obey him totally

That is worse than the reality that there are some muslims (like there are some christians/jews/budhists/etc) who are chauvinistic.

Most of the Muslims I knew in college who came from either Iran or Saudi Arabia were firmly convinced that women rank somewhere below dogs. The few non-Muslim Iranians I knew didn’t seem so adamantly this way, and the same could be said for the one guy from Afghanistan, the one Algerian, and the two Egyptians I knew.

I don’t know how prevalent it is world-wide among Muslims, but certainly the Islamic Iranians and the Saudis that I have known followed the stereotype very, very closely.

@Siren ‘I know a lot of muslims also, from various countries’ ‘That is worse than the reality’. I know alot of buddhists but I do not pretend to know their culture in their own countries ‘Perhaps where you visited, your demographic were a bunch of assholes:’ I did not visit, I lived and in various parts of the muslim world for several years.
If you have not lived in muslims countries you are less qualified to comment on this issue. You obviously have no idea of the level of abuse that alot of muslim women face every day of their lives. You have to live in the culture to see the reality. How would you like to be locked in a tiny flat and never let out, never allowed any visitors, never allowed to go shopping… and/or beaten every day. Yes, there are many women who live lives like this and worse. There are many educated muslim men who are trying to change the way muslim women are treated in their own countries and manage to get laws passed to protect them. But it is a slow process and it is extremely difficult to reach every part of the muslim world to ensure that every abuser is held to account. And, yes, my statement was a generalization and should be treated as such, not turned into and argument over stereotypes. And muslim men living in the western world do not always behave the way they do in their own countries even if they are educated.

@Excalibur, i’d like to know in which, country, exactly, you lived? Because that has not been my experience, living in various muslim countries, being muslim, and knowing muslims from various walks of life and cultures. (and I’m a woman)

Those kinds of generalizations perpetuate stereotypes that have little basis in truth.
It’s like saying that, all white people in the United States support lynchings and crime against foreigners and non-whites, because I went to (or even lived in) a town where members of the police force were also part of the KKK. No one in their right mind would make a statement like that.

i think that men treating women like crap is not a religious or cultural thing..i think douchebaggery breaks alll barriers…

as far as the question goes i think that the couple need to figure out their religious questons because the christian woman will be going against the scripture t o“not be unequally yoked” and with both people faith is a big issue, as far as multiple wives my cousin who is mulsim signed a marriage contract t ohave only one wife..so that setteled it…

One of my daughters dated a Muslim guy. He was military so I thought it would be o.k. It turns out he reverted to type, bought her some nice jewelry then decided he owned her. He started giving her orders and dating other women as if it was his right.

One thing you don’t want to do is to issue orders to my kids. Of course she dropped him and he married a nice Muslim girl that could, I assume take orders.

He later had the nerve to call me and ask for my daughters number. He actually thought that my daughter and I would be o.k. for a married man to date here. Of course he never called again.

If you date a Muslim guy, I suggest that you visit his family and see how his father treats his wife. It will be a great insight into how you would be treated should you get married.