Whenever I hear someone say that all things natural are good, or that only man is the only animal that rapes...

I know ducks commit rape – I’ve seen them do it.

And sea gulls have lesbian relationships.

I always hear guys say, “Women are the only animals that bleed for seven days and don’t die” and all I can think is, “Nuh uh…”. I don’t usually say anything, but it’s irritating.

Your link is totally fascinating and creepy at the same time.

But yeah… Dolphins also commit rape.

My male dogs a rat terrier and a chihuahua rape our male cat all the time. We had rabbits and a small male rabbit would jump the divider and rape a huge male rabbit all the time.

@DrasticDreamer, those guys should be sent to a distance place where there are no women until they learn some sensitivity.

@Darwin, how do you tell the male seagulls from the females?

@Darwin excellent reference to both Beavis and Butthead and Englebert Humperdink. lurve.

this is the song @Darwin referenced.

pure art.

@evelyns_pet_zebra, I think it’s worth correcting people over.

@evelyns_pet_zebra – It depends on the seagull species. For example, in the black headed gull the male has a black head, and female does not. In other species where coloration is similar there can be minor differences in coloring. Also, in most gull species the male is slightly larger than the female. In addition, a feather, part of the bird’s egg shell, or a small drop of blood can be sent to a lab to have a DNA test run to determine sex. And finally, female gulls lay eggs while male gulls do not.

Studies have shown that some gull nests have twice as many eggs as usual and that the eggs are being laid by both members of the pair. Hence, both are female. However, without male participation the eggs are infertile and do not hatch. But in populations where there are fewer males than females, often a female will mate briefly with a male gull but then court and pair off with a female gull to raise the resulting chicks. The female-female pair will often demonstrate “mounting” behavior and attempted copulation.

@eponymoushipster – I don’t wish to accept lurve under false pretenses. I actually was referencing Hunt and Hunt’s 1977 study on female-female pairings of gulls off the California coast (Hunt, G. L., Jr., and M. W Hunt. 1977. Female-female pairing in western gulls. (Larus occidentalis) in Southern California. Science 196: 1466–67).

I wish I had know of Englebert Humperdinck’s song and would have been referencing if it I had known of it. Will that work?

Frogs commit rape.

I wanna name an animal that rapes too! I submit Jackal Rape!

@Darwin oddly (or not) enough, one thing leads to another. The song was inspired by said report. So, indirectly, you were referencing it.

my jim and coke is kicking it. sorry if this is poorly worded.

@AstroChuck I was raped by a frog once. No wait, that was something else, nevermind!

@evelyns_pet_zebra show us on the doll where kermit touched you…

You mean a Frenchman?

zing!

@eponymoushipster – I knew Molly Hunt when I was in grad school, which is why I am familiar with the study. Full circle time?

this is getting creepy…!

Many animals rape both sexes.

All things in nature are not good, how about the hundreds of poisonous plants and animals? Tornadoes are natural, again not good. these are only the tip of the iceberg.

It depends on who it is and what it’s about. First, is it a person I can have any influence over? Someone I care about? Secondly, some misguided notions are firmly entrenched beliefs. No amount of logic will ever convince the holder of such beliefs that they are wrong. I will try, but only for so long before I write it off as a lost cause. If it’s just a matter of a mistake, then I will correct them if I am able.

Elephants have rape gangs! They rape Rhinos. New York Times Magazine told me so.

Well I guess if the Cimex Lectularius’ can do it.. it must be ok.

(because I study neuroscience):
When people ask me if I study the 90% of the brain people “don’t use” because of the stupid 10% myth.

(when I was an SAT tutor):
When people think you get 200 points “just for spelling your name correctly.”

I always correct them, but usually in a somewhat annoyed/mean way. I can’t wait until the day when I will be able to dispel myths gracefully and rejoice in the fact that I am sharing knowledge with people rather than being so annoyed with their ignorance.

I just hate when people believe myths. It makes me think so much less of them. Why would anyone take these ridiculous lies as truth? Why not look them up? Why not think for yourself?

Dolphins have actually also been known to commit “gang rape.”

But really, isn’t this all just a little preposterous? I mean, how do we know what the animals are really thinking? We certainly can’t expect to apply our human notions of what is “acceptable” sexual relations to another species. I mean, maybe they like it that way!! And certainly defining what is “normal” human sexual behaviour is damn near impossible anyway!! I mean, maybe some of those ducks & dolphins have “rape fantasies” and we are just witnessing them act out their fantasies w/in the context of a loving, safe sexual relationship w/ the duck/dolphin of their dreams! Who are we to judge what’s “normal” duck sex and what is not? If those very same ducks were to peep through many of our bedroom windows, I’m sure they’d have a thing or two to say too!

And let’s not even get into the sex lives of praying mantisis or some spiders!!!

Things in nature are often neither good nor bad. Look at wildfires. Sure, they might be “bad” if they destroy million-dollar homes in California, but back before they built houses in fire-prone areas, the fires would clear out old growth and clear the land for new growth, meadow where there was stagnant forest, and allow seedlings a chance to see sky. Those are good, right? Unless you’re the forest?

(If we look at it from a non-human-centric point of view, perhaps those homes need to be cleared for the same reason. I know there’s misery and death there, and I’d be broken if it happened to me, but we are a very self-important blip in the big cycle.)

Things that are “bad” are often “good” for other reasons. (Please don’t think that I am condoning rape.)

@tb1570 – would it be different to you if the ‘victim’ were trying desperately to get away?

Errrr…whoops. I should note that I composed my answer at like 5:30am. I thought this thread was about false ideas we hear people say and if we correct them. Based on the description. Somehow I missed that everyone was actually just talking about animal rape. Sorry. :(

@girlofscience – you’re good – that was part of the details of the question. People seem to have latched onto something else, but there’s no reason not to go back to the question itself for inspiration!

I would just ask them why they assume that no animals in the wild rape each other.

@DrBill – You said “All things in nature are not good, how about the hundreds of poisonous plants and animals?”

The question is, from whose perspective? From the viewpoint of the poisonous entity it is indeed good because it makes other entities (such as people) leave them alone.

When people say all things natural are good, I assume they mean, by extension, that all things human are bad. Or that only humans are bad. So they don’t consider humans to be natural, which always kills me.

I think what is really going on is some kind of attempt at understanding the role of morality. The assumption is that animals can’t make moral decisions, but humans can. We can understand the context of what we do, and decide to do an antisocial thing, or not. Animals don’t really have a choice. They just do what it is in their “nature” to do.

So, if I understand this correctly, the underlying issue is whether humans are separated from all other living creatures because of our ability to make moral choices. I guess, by definition, if you are incapable of making moral choices, then we can’t really make a moral judgment about you. So the rest of nature is, by default, good (assuming everything starts from goodness).

Following this, we can see that only humans can descend into badness or immorality. Ok. So what? Is this some discussion about original sin? Is it a discussion of existentialism? Does the fact that other creatures are amoral while humans can be immoral imply anything about how we should relate to the fauna of this world?

I think that people who say this are implying something like inborn amorality is good, and should be given some exalted status. Although for what, I have no idea. I guess it allows human choices to be problematic, but they are that way already. Perhaps it gives people an angle on which to claim humans are bad, or that our behavior is bad, or that if we hurt inborn amoral creatures we are bad.

Honestly, none of these things make sense to me. There has to be something deeper going on. Perhaps something religious? If there is nothing deeper, then this is a lot of fuss over nothing. Anyone have any ideas?

If a mouse steals a piece of cheese and then a cat eats the mouse which one is evil? The answer is neither because both are merely following their nature.

Master Po from Kung Fu

When I said all things natural are good, I was referring to the fallacies of people who follow certain diets without first researching whether what they are doing to their bodies is in fact good for them, or to the way that certain companies advertise their products as ‘all natural’ with the idea of promoting if it is natural, it must be good for you. But hey, these are great answers here too. I like to ask a question and see how people answer. I wouldn’t say anything here was wrong as far as answers go. Much lurve to all who thought enough of the question to give an answer.

As for the rape thing, if you read the link about the reproductive habits of bedbugs, you’d understand that rape occurs among many creatures. Is it normal for male bedbugs to stab female bedbugs (and other males) with their members through the abdominal wall instead of into the coital opening? Yeah, it might be normal, but it is still rape, because it is forced and it is aggressive. The act is known as ‘traumatic copulation.’ I found out that little gem from a book entitled ‘A Natural History of Sex by Adrian Forsyth’. There is a few pages describing the sexual/life cycle of a creature called a brain worm that, according to the author, “is a saga that even jaded parasitologists inured to the bizarre must concede is complex beyond imagination.”

I have seen gay relationships, and the Black Widows eat their husband, if that fits the “rape” category.
And then there was the grasshopper who suck eachother’s heads, then eat them.

@90s_kid how is a spider eating another spider “gay”? or “rape”?

@eponymoushipster
Please do not make me explain what goes on when someone gets “raped”...:S

the whole Black Widow spider eating her mate after (or during) sex, depending on who you ask, is mostly a myth. It happens, but not every time. It’s one of those stories that gets passed around as fact when it really isn’t. A female Preying Mantid will chew the head off her mate during sex, and it seems to make him ‘pump’ harder. This happens pretty often, unless the male is quick enough to get away. And certain species of honeybee drones literally explode after sex. That’s not gay, that’s just crazy!

@90s_kid no, i’m sure you have plenty of experiences you don’t need to relive. don’t trouble yourself with an explanation.

@evelyns_pet_zebra / @eponymoushipster
Sorry, It has nothing to do with gay.

Animals don’t commit rape.

There is no nefarious intent, just an acting out of instinctual urges. Rape in the human sense is all about power, control, humiliation, the sexual relaese is not really even in the equation.

I do believe everything in nature is perfect. It is what it is, and cannot be anything else, therefore perfection.

@Coloma Actually, dolphins rape.

<—monkeys cry