How would the world differ if God didn't exist?

The world would still have all the current misfortunes and problems as it does now. Human beings are inherently and irrevocably flawed despite the capacity they have for so much goodness also.

And, if you look at this from the angle in the belief that God created the world, then the question would be a moot point because if God didn’t exist, nothing else would either.

From the Bible:
(the book of Ecclesiastes)

I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind (1:14).

Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also to madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind (1:17).

Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind; nothing was gained under the sun (2:11).

You’re right. The world would be pretty much the same. We just wouldn’t have any escape from it.

It wouldnt…...

God would have to exist in the first place.

The world would be exactly the same because I don’t believe God exists.

@uberbatman Told you I doubted it. xD

@NaturalMineralWater lol4rl

So God doesn’t provide any concrete guidance whatsoever?

@hermanni God gave us the wonderful gift of free will.

That question is part of my argument against religion. Without God would there be more suffering by innocent people and even more injustice? And if you tell me that everything is reconciled in the afterlife then why bother with this life, except to see it as one long tryout for what comes after?

John 16:33—These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Without God you could change this verse to: “In the world ye shall have tribulation”.

@hermanni – Nope, God doesn’t provide any guidance for me, not even one iota. Then again, no one can always provide concrete guidance, and even if they do, maybe their guidance is not what you needed. If I’m trying to get from point A to B in anything in life, I find it’s better to rely on myself, my own abilities, my own knowledge, my own skills, my own experiences to get me to point B instead of relying on the contents of a book which was written a very long time ago by many different people.

@NaturalMineralWater
I’ve never quite understood this Christian take on free will as a “wonderful gift”. Aren’t all the tribulations you speak of the direct result of this gift? Why would God’s making us without the ability to accurately discern the consequences of our actions be a boon for us?

I can see why free will is crucial to Christian theology to explain the existence of sin, but as a non-Christian, the whole paradigm looks quite unflattering to God.

If it were not for God, the world would not exist.

Without Zeus, we would have nothing.

I think a better question would be, “How would the world be different if a god did exist?”

I think it would be a better world if people didn’t believe in a god. Imagine, no Jihad, no crusades, no holy wars.
Too many people have been tortured and killed in the name of God.

Torturing and killing In the name of Religon, not God himself. Torturing and killing in the name of alot of stuff,Hitler,Ali, stay puff marshmallow man. But God himself is all things good all thing right, whether be nature or human nature.With out God there would still be torturing and killing, just someone else to blame.

Semantics.

If God didn’t exist, we’d have to realize that nobody is going to save our asses from our own stupidity, and therefore we’d better get busy working out our own solutions.

If God didn’t exist, we’d have to conclude that the only valid measure of “wrong” is whether or not an action actually causes harm.

If God didn’t exist, we’d have to reconcile ourselves to the impermanence of life, cherish every moment of it, and not waste our own or that of others.

If God didn’t exist, we’d have to stand in wide-eyed awe at the magnificence and mystery of a universe that not only manifests itself, but can look at and appreciate itself.

If God is just observing and not participating in any way, as most here seems to agree, then why do christians pray? I’d imagine people often pray to thank lord for something or to ask him some favor. I’m a sceptic agnostic and I’m not willing to discuss about the existence of God as that’s an endless swamp :)

Let me put it this way, the world may be a better place without any form of religion, but sadly forty five percent of humans contain a genetic gene known as the god gene, it was discovered in 2006. Somehow we are forced genetacly to believe in something. So if there were no god or gods there would be lesser wars and genocides. How many people died in wars in the name of God, Allah or any other religous conviction? And how many will still die in the name of religion? Imagine a world without any religion, somehow we need religion to keep us in line from destroying ourselves.

Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…

-John Lennon

I got the same vision as John Lennon and no I am not a communist!

There is that atheist billboard that’s just a picture of New York with the twin towers still standing and it says real big, “Imagine no religion”.

Well it’s innate in human nature to belive and yearn for a higher power. Always. It’s there like we have hunger for food and a desire to have sex and breathe air. Native Americans found their God in every living thing and object of the natural earth. The Greeks had their mythical Gods each having a role to play. Every culture has some kind of belief and God that they went to and started with.

Athiests are always there, or people that don’t want to listen to any higher power. But few true athiests exits. Most people at least believe in “something out there.” Have you seen the transformers movie? Just before Optimus Prime used the glasses to find the cube, what did he say? “Please, let this work.” Who was he talking to? Was he beseeching a higher power to shine His good will on this situation? Who are we talking to when we mutter the same words? I know who I’m talking to when I say it.

Now take all that away. Gone. With the absolute knowledge that there is no higher power out there, there is no one who is perfect and great and watching over us. We’re alone. When everyone on earth abandons us, there is nothing. That is a bleak journey, my friend, one that I do not wish to ever embark on.

I’m with you a28proximo, I think Optimus Prime is out there somewhere.

@Harp I’ve never quite understood this Christian take on free will as a “wonderful gift”. Aren’t all the tribulations you speak of the direct result of this gift?
Of course. So are the good times. How is it not beautiful to go through life choosing your own path?

Why would God’s making us without the ability to accurately discern the consequences of our actions be a boon for us?
I’m sorry.. this didn’t make any sense at all to me. You don’t think we have this ability?

@NaturalMineralWater
I find it a lot easier to appreciate the beauty of choice when I know that my choices don’t have to be predicated on the will of God. It seems like a false choice to say “you’re free to choose whichever path you want, but there’s only one choice that won’t get you killed”.

I don’t know what your take is on the Garden of Eden narrative, but the way it was communicated to me (and I think this is not an uncommon interpretation) went something like this: God placed the first perfect humans in ideal surroundings and provided them with all they needed, but for some reason he also had to set up an opportunity for them to sin. And the rationale behind this has something to do with free will.

This is what I don’t get- Mankind was somehow enriched by being presented with this totally contrived chance to plunge all future generations into tribulation? What if I were to create a fantastic playroom for my child, but decide to leave one of the wall outlets with the wires hanging out because he needs to have the choice to disobey me. I’ll tell him that he mustn’t touch the two wires or he’ll get fried, and if he does make that choice then it’s not my fault. Is his life better for having that choice? Were Adam and Eve suddenly freer when the chance to get themselves killed was presented? Had that forbidden tree never come on the scene, how would they have been worse off?

Personally, I do find beauty in the ability to choose one’s own path, but in my view there’s no deity who’ll whack me for not making the “right” choices. Tribulations and death happen, but that’s just the rightful nature of life as a human, not payback for my ancestors’ bad choices.

I hope you don’t think I’m attacking you here. It’s just something I haven’t been able to reconcile.

@Harp No no, I don’t feel attacked. Great response actually. I have often wondered some of the same things myself. Although I don’t think God created any perfect humans, I can’t begin to guess what His intentions were/are. In fact, doing so seems to me to be a fruitless endeavor.. His ways are divine.. beyond our understanding.. like the very concept of infinity. I understand how weak that sounds.. to not understand something like that and be perfectly ok with it.. but that’s what faith is all about. The thing is, it’s not a blind faith.. Christians would not be Christians if that were so. Perhaps that’s something for a different question.

Let me try to get back on track. XD

With your playroom example: Wouldn’t you agree that tribulations (such as broken wall outlets) are some of the ways humanity learns the most? Were we to float through life without a care in the world we would not be as diamonds emerging from coal.. we would just be the coal.

Many of us are just like Nicodemus with Jesus. We ask questions about things like this that just don’t seem to make any sense whatsoever.. but because we don’t understand doesn’t mean there isn’t a perfectly good reason.

I know my answer isn’t the greatest, it’s just from the heart. God didn’t give me the gift of public speaking or writing.. for me it was music.. so I hope you can understand how helpless I feel at arguing my points xD..

Romans 8:28–37 has some interesting things to say that may relate.

@bodyhead Yeah, I’m much more likely to believe in an Optimus Prime than in some vengeful, wrathful, judgmental “god” out there watching over us, judging each & every one of our actions and allowing people by the millions to be murdered, slaughtered & tortured in his name for thousands of years. In fact, in all seriousness, I’m much more inclined to believe in the existence of aliens than in god. Who was it who said something like “given two choices, the simpler answer is usually true”?

@tb1570 You’re referring to Occam’s Razor.. which is (imho) nothing more than a flawed assumption made famous.. clearly the “simple answer” is different amongst those answering.

@NaturalMineralWater Clearly.

This question to be honest made me think, and what if we are to afraid to admit that we are alone and when we die there is nothing on the other side, it can work both ways there might be something out there but it’s the same question as the boys at SETI are we alone? Well I still think the world would be better if there were no religions or if there were religions than we should learn to live in harmony, somehow human kind will find a reason to start wars. If it’s not for relegion, than it will be for something else. Our minds is simply too small to understand the concept of any God or religion. Wait and see that’s all I can say.

@NaturalMineralWater
Re: “Wouldn’t you agree that tribulations (such as broken wall outlets) are some of the ways humanity learns the most? Were we to float through life without a care in the world we would not be as diamonds emerging from coal.. we would just be the coal.”

I completely agree. The pendulum swing between joy and pain is part of our natural condition. The best we can do is get comfortable with the swing, not trying to stop the pendulum on the “joy” side, and not being plunged into despair when it swings to the “pain” side. In that equanimity lies the diamond.

According to Christian thought though, isn’t the swinging of the pendulum a temporary aberration, set in motion by sin, a problem to be fixed?
As for how you express yourself, I don’t see any reproaches to be made

@Harp I don’t see it as a problem that can be fixed. It is simply the nature of things. Mankind has a sinful nature. We will continue to make choices that hurt ourselves and others.. we eat the wrong apples all the time. (Or whatever fruit it happens to be.. I tend to think pomegranate xD) The only thing we can do is try to minimize our own contribution to the mayhem by limiting our bad fruit intake.. by becoming more like Jesus.. or rather struggling to become more like Jesus.. during the process of which we are refined… “life is a journey, not a destination”.

The idea that this was all set in motion by sin is indirectly accurate.. it was really all set in motion by God. Perhaps we’ll find out why one day.

[offers @NaturalMineralWater a virtual beer]

@Harp Excellent. I’ll have something in Irish Red please.