What would you do if a community leader started enforcing a law before it was made public?

If it were the U.S. government doing it, that would be an ex post facto law, wouldn’t it?

Was the law/rule in existence before the violation? Then perhaps “ignorance of the law is no excuse,” but I should hope it was at least in an employee handbook or something. If not, it’s rude at best for someone to enforce a rule that they just pulled out of the air.

I dont see why i should give a damn what the community leader is doing….

heh another poll question…

How can they predict everything that is going to happen in the future? The rules will have to be modified as people find ways to break them. If you hate the mods so much you can leave.

[I am not a mod :: but I will marry one]

@daloon I just noticed you reached 10,000! Congrats!

Lawsuit.

@johnpowell: touchy, touchy. So you’re saying, “America, love it or leave it?” I’m perfectly well aware that I can leave whenever I want. I’m also aware that most successful businesses are interested in how their customers think they are doing. Particularly, good customers—the ones who use their services a lot.

In any case, you’re missing the point. How can anyone obey a law if they don’t know it exists? In fact, no one, except the leaders, know it exists. Yet they enforce it anyway? Strange.

@uberbatman: yup. Poll question. Surprised it’s still here. Enjoy it while you can.

who said anything about me enjoying poll questions….

@uberbatman: I didn’t say you had to enjoy it. It’s purely voluntary. If you hate them, then fine. Hate them while you can. They are going away. With the question volume cut in half, who knows what will happen? Oops. Another poll question.

@daloon ” With the question volume cut in half,” you say that like its a bad thing, like fluther hasnt had a huge influx of shitty questions…..

@daloon, Most feedback I’ve heard from other users aside from yourself quite enjoy the newfound “strictness” and getting rid of the shitty questions. You are the only one who seems so up in arms about having a question removed for not coinciding with the owners’ vision for their website. @uberbatman Said it well.

@omfgTALIjustIMDu: it’s just that all my questions are like that one, which means they are all poll questions, and they’ll all get modded. What’s the point? I’ve had a couple people tell me they like my questions, but I guess that doesn’t matter.

This is a poll question, too. In fact, most questions are poll questions. I should know. It’s my business.

Also, I hadn’t noticed any difference in the rate of shitty questions. It seems to me that the rate of dreck has not changed one iota. I was trying to do my part to make it better, but apparently, I’m completely off base. Ironic, actually.

[Mod says] Let’s try to keep this civil, folks.

@daloon if all of your questions go against the guidelines(poll questions) how is that the mods fault? Maybe you should ask better questions….

I don’t see all of Daloon’s questions as being poll questions. Some may be, but it’s a fine line sometimes.

@augustlan i didnt say that, he did…“it’s just that all my questions are like that one, which means they are all poll questions”

@daloon, I think you are taking this way too personally. The mods are not out to get you, or any specific person. They do their jobs according to the guidelines and censor questionable items only after discussion and agreement that it should go. They do what’s best for the site, based on feedback from users via flags, PMs, threads, etc. Often, there is a fine line, and when there is the best course to take is to contact Andrew and/or Ben via the contact form on the top right-hand side of the page, and take it up with them. It is ultimately their decision, as it is their site.

Perhaps an example is in order. A question like “Which is better, San Francisco or LA?” would be a poll question. A question like “I’m moving to California in a few months and can’t decide between SF and LA. Can you help me decide?” and then lists some information like, I like the outdoors, cool people, laid-back vibe, etc. would help.

Of course, everyone know the answer is San Francisco, but, that’s besides the point.

@uberbatman I wasn’t saying you said it, just responding to both Daloon and you.

@omfgTALIjustIMDu: But I like being outraged about really, really stupid things, too much. I mean, they should be so embarrassed.

To ban poll questions, is to ban all questions, because all questions are asked in polls these days. The General Social Survey covers hundreds of questions. The American Survey of Family Life. The Roper surveys. I’ll bet every single one of the questions of fluther has been asked in a poll, if not exactly, at least in a similar form.

Not exactly on point, but Suppose you wanted the local government to bring about some improvement in your local community. How likely is it that you would be able to do something about it?

Or How about business and industry, do they have too much
power or too little power?

Or . In your opinion, how often do public officials deal fairly with people like you?

Or: Suppose a law were being considered by the Congress that you considered to be unjust or harmful. 1473. If you made such an effort, how likely is it that the Congress would give serious attention to your demands?

All right, I haven’t tried very hard, but you can see how much like questions we get here these poll questions are. You can see how they share some issues with the issues I’ve raised here. If I went out there and did a comprehensive search, I’d probably find something more on point, in terms of being similar to this one.

The no poll question rule makes no sense for a site like this. Or else, I am totally misunderstanding the purpose of this site.

@daloon “To ban poll questions, is to ban all questions, because all questions are asked in polls these days.” see shilolos post.

“The no poll question rule makes no sense for a site like this. Or else, I am totally misunderstanding the purpose of this site.”
It doesnt have to make sense to you, its not your site :)

@uberbatman: “t doesnt have to make sense to you, its not your site :)”

Technically, you’re correct. However, if people did not take ownership of this site, and protect it as if it were their own, it would most certainly not be what it is today. I may not own this place, but it is my site. And yours. And yours and yours and yours. We better hope it stays that way, or it will go south, and not by southwest, either.

@daloon “However, if people did not take ownership of this site, and protect it as if it were their own, it would most certainly not be what it is today” what do you think ive been doing this entire thread? The difference is i back up what ben and andrew want, not the opposite ;)

And what do you think the mods are here for? To protect this site :)

@daloon Some of us think poll questions are why the site is going to shit.

Yes, but what is regarded as a poll question by some is not a poll question to others.

There are good poll questions that provoke thought (like this one) and bad poll questions (like, I dunno, “Which is better, yellow Peeps or purple Peeps?”). I can see getting rid of the crappy ones, but Daloon’s always seem to be deeper and better somehow. I hope that distinction counts in the eyes of the Mods.

fwiw i like daloon and i respect him a lot. he has a lot to say and a lot to offer… and his questions thought provoking and interesting – poll question or not…

the thing that attracted me to this site (and that i tell people about) is that you can any question you like… I’ve only ever had one of my questions rejected and that was when i was very new.

if we can’t ask whatever question we want what’s the point? isn’t the point about asking peoples opinions on all sorts of things…

soon, the mods will stop allowing questions on the “understanding” that they are perhaps “boring” or “too controversial”

I’m with Daloon.

Okay, so here’s what I’ve got so far:
Daloon asked a blatantly polling question.
It was moderated.
Daloon got miffed and asked this completely unrelated question
We’re now having a discussion about over-moderation.

To answer the question:
It depends on if the law was already a law-in-acceptance or not. If it was already a very strong social norm and tradition, then I’d be fine if they were pushing it into the official rules, but also moderating based on it before that. I think it is a dangerous precedent for something like an actual nation to set, but for small, non-legal, opt-in (ie, you go out of your way to be there) communities it’s fine.

Now, if it is not an accepted practice of the community that is simply being pushed to the official rules, then no—that’s silly.

Here, we have an accepted rule that blatant polling questions are not allowed. It’s so ingrained to the community here that I actually thought it was a guideline already. Ergo, I do not think you can complain when one is taken down.

However if that question holds more purpose than simply polling, I don’t think that you should complain when it is left up outside of the general rule. Thus, “Coffee or tea?” should come down, but “Should I have coffee or tea? :: My doctor diagnosed me with flutheritis of the stomach. I know that caffeine is an important part of my medicinal regiment, but don’t know if the other aspects of coffee or tea might come into play. What should I take?” should not.

In short, if you can show reason for your question to be there, I don’t think it should come down. However, I do think that questions like this one and the one following the unicorn crap question are outside the guidelines. If you want to discuss the rules of the place, I don’t think you should front a question that you really have no intention or chance of discussing. They always degenerate into the real issue that is bothering you (in this case getting modded and the state of Fluther) very quickly and it’s not fair to anyone who wanted to discuss the original question. I also think you should discuss it with the mods in PM.

And finally we can consider this over moderation if we want. Fine, then I’ve been in a community that’s had over moderation and a community that’s had under moderation. No one will ever agree that as a whole somewhere has the right amount of moderation and between the two, I vastly prefer this one.

This could have been a really interesting, really great consumer vs. business, community leadership style question, but since there was an underlying issue, I don’t think it really had a chance. I would have really enjoyed discussing my positions—which are different based on the kind of community—but feel like it’s much, much harder to post knowing that any answer is taking sides in a way.

@lynneblundell…..its not the mods…. Why in the hell does everyone have it out for the mods like theyre going around just taking crap down they dont like. You do realize they only follow what ben and andrew tell them to?

@EmpressPixie do you really think this question is totally unrelated? It seems to me to be a jab at the mods about his question being modded and how he feels its unfair because he believes its not clearly stated in the guidelines.

@uberbatman: I feel like it could have been totally unrelated. Like, it could have been a really interesting topic to debate had it been brought up on it’s own and unrelated/not secretly talking about Fluther. But because it was a jab at the mods it’s a trap. And I’ve fallen into this kind of trap before and I resent it. As a question without Flutheriffic undertones, it’s really interesting. As a trap where you are secretly and possibly unknowingly choosing sides in a Fluther fight, it’s annoying at best.

@EmpressPixie i agree, it could have been unrelated, and could have been a good Q. But ultimately it wasnt :P

@uberbatman ok…I’ll shutup

It seems Daloon has deleted his account. :(

@augustlan thats a pity. I dont get how you can be a user on this site for that long, run into one small issue like this and delete your whole account over it. Its a shame really, i liked daloon.

@uberbatman: I agree. But as with anything like this, we probably don’t know the whole story.

I know what you mean. It makes me sad, and a little mad, too.

nooooooooooo seriously? that’s really really bad.
daloon…please come back hun

I really do think the moderation here needs to be better articulated and modified, and I can tell you that it bothered the hell out of me.

In retrospect, I let my emotions get away from me. However, at the time, I had never had any contact with Andrew and I see things a little differently now. I don’t know if change can be made, but I now feel like my ideas will at least be heard, although they might not be implemented.

excellent news x