Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?

I’ve yet to receive a command from God so I can’t decide.

I don’t believe either of the two.

I believe what is moral is defined simply as what allows a society to exist in general harmony. Rules such as “don’t steal”, “don’t kill”, “don’t sleep around” helped us establish cities and towns that have law and order. It was simply much easier to say “God says be like this” back in a time where everyone believed in a God, then to say “Be like this because it’s a good way to be”.

As someone who does not believe in a God, why do I still have morals, if your premise about morals being given or commanded by God is true? The answer is that I don’t need a god to be a moral person. All I need is my trusty Golden Rule.

God has little to do with morality.

@Ivan
This is aimed at the believes.

Societal norms dictate what is moral.

@Myndecho How exactly does that matter? Every other response to this question has been in a similar vain. Singling me out was unwarranted.

What Fluthery responses. @Myndecho FYI if you are addressing a particular (in this case minority) group, it is best to say so in the question.

@Ivan
Your name was the closes to my cursor :P Nothing personal. If your a Christian and believes what is said in the bible, this is a inconsistency.

I’d like the question to specify which God we’re talking about (Zeus? Yahweh? Oludamare?) but I’ll assume it’s talking about the Biblical god Yahweh.

Even if I believed in Yahweh, I would have trouble believing that things like slavery (Lev. 25:45), forcing rapists to marry their victims (Dt. 22:28), and genocide (Dt. 20:16) are moral. In other words, I’d have to be a gnostic. Or maybe a Satanist.

I also don’t think God has anything to do with morality. Morality is a man-made concept, things in existence just are, i don’t believe there is any good or bad, those is all subjective ideas.

I would say it’s commanded by God because it’s moral.

@ignorantsavage… seriously?

@essieness, does that mean you think the genocide of the Canaanites, as commanded by God in Deuteronomy 20 and as carried out by Joshua and other Hebrew leaders throughout the histories section of the Bible, was moral?

Or forcing a rapist to marry his victim if she’s an unbetrothed virgin?

Or forcing the people you conquer in warfare to serve you in forced labor?

I don’t think you actually believe what you wrote.

@Qingu I don’t believe in the Bible, so your questions don’t apply to me. My idea of God is not the same as King James’s version of God.

Admittedly, I didn’t watch the YouTube video, so maybe that would change perception of this question.

Which God do you believe in?

What do you mean?

If you don’t believe in the Bible, then which God are you talking about when you say “God”?

Allah? Zeus? Ahura Mazda?

And what commandments has your God actually given?

Um… here we go. Ok, I believe there is one God, we just happen to call it by different names. So, when you ask me “which God” I believe in, that doesn’t make sense to me. God, Allah, Zeus; they’re all the same. Different religions want us to believe there are different gods because people by nature want to be right and one-up each other (i.e., my God is the real God…). I just don’t buy into that crap.

When you ask what commandments my God has given… Well, I think God wants me to be honest, have integrity, and love people.

I suppose it depends on what you believe. I believe that having morals and ethics are separate from religion.

I work to be an ethical person, because I want to, because I believe it is the right thing to do.

@essieness, when and how did you receive these commandments from your God?

@Qingu I’m really not trying to get into a religious debate. I don’t feel the need to justify my beliefs to you. I shared my opinion on the original question, and now have shared with you how I feel about God and religion. Beyond that, it’s really not yours, or anyone else’s, business.

Also, please don’t presume that I don’t believe what I write. I certainly mean everything I write. You do not live inside my head and therefore do not know my thoughts or my heart.

The whole point of the Euthephro argument is that it disproves the Divine Command theory. Because regardless of the answer you choose, there are new issues to address depending on your choice.

Is your chocolate in my peanut butter or is my peanut butter on your chocolate.

morality is subjective…and now i’m hungry

Ultimately this question tried to put limits on, who I believe to be a limitless God. We are given two options based on human knowledge, but the Christian God I believe in cannot be contained by human logic.

@TheDeadWake, wait, you’re allowed to do that?

You can just say something “isn’t constrained by logic” and magically not have to talk about it or defend your views about it?

Excellent! Bruce Campbell is master of the universe and demands you pay him $100. I’d offer reasons for this, but Bruce Campbell isn’t constrained by human logic.

@Qingu As far as i know i am allowed…

I’ll put it this way…

What I believe is that we can’t fathom how God works, but that’s not to say we shouldn’t try to understand him. I am talking about the question, I’m explaining my views of it.

Ah, Bruce Campbell! You can saw my leg off any day.

@TheDeadWake Isn’t that rather convenient? You are essentially absolving yourself of any responsibility you might have to logically support your beliefs.

@Ivan I’m communicating my beliefs that my God does not adhere to our forms of logic. The question posted above assumes that God must follow one of two outcomes based on human logic. I’ve posted on fluther before that I believe there are concrete right and wrongs and that we can only do our best to try and understand what those things are, but I believe God to be the only one who knows all right and wrong. I’m not going to push my ideals on anyone on fluther by assuming I know all because I don’t. If I’m comfortable acknowledging that I’m not all knowing and that upsets you, then so be it. I won’t assume to know how God works, all I can do is postulate. My thoughts on how he works when it comes to morals are all posted above. Thanks and sorry :)

Nothing you said upset me. I was merely questioning your argument that God is outside the rules of logic. I think that is a convenient argument.

I’m glad it didn’t upset you :)

Yeah, it is convenient that I don’t know how God works. It gets me out of a lot of jury duty. :)