Is violence inherently addictive?

Great question but I’ve not the violent mad dog experiences to give an answer.

Yes and no. When speaking of the protests you mention above, there was a huge sense of anonymity for those people. If they were to be in something like the army, or a fight for their lives, they would probably have said no.

But you have to remember “rage-oholics”, too. People that enjoy the adrenaline rush of fighting and violence.

The best high they’ve ever had..

Like a runner’s high? As hunter-gatherers in neanderthal times, we used to run a lot more, and guest what else -kill. Back then, I wouldn’t be surprised if killing something, for the act of eating it, would produce a release of endorphins.

That’s just speculation, though.

Seems like violence and financial ruin and demoralization of cultures all correlate somehow… I think we’ll breed out the violent genes in our species. The rest will kill each other. I can’t wait for the pitchforks for this: I believe as organized religion dies, people will assume more peaceful rolls in society. Nietzche says, “Madness is rare in individuals – but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule.” Until we evolve, violence is as attractive today as it was to a crowded collosseum in 81 AD.

its a mans world. nuff said.

@boots yes they had a sense of anonymity but also a sense of duty as their families had been involved in these same actions and their parents before them – when time for talking peace came they were impatient, felt things didn’t move fast enough, were not comfortable with the seemingly inaction, and missed the power and “rush” they used to feel. It reminded me a bit of women I’d know who’d been in abusive relationships, got out of them, but then were not happy with what I would call “normal” relationships – on looking inside they realized they’d gotten accustomed to the drama and constant adrenaline rush – everything paled in comparison (they often termed other relationships as boring) – it took many years to get comfortable with peace again.
@ark_a_dong a few described it as better than any drug they’d used.
@alossforwords on the whole I agree with “violence and financial ruin and demoralization of cultures all correlate somehow” but I do wonder if it is just demoralization that leads to middle class cage fighters, domestic violence, mob violence, soccer crowds going crazy, etc.

I sure hope not. But the popularity of ultimate fighting does give me the worries.

We will never live in a utopia .

It’s not only violence that, to a degree, is inherent. Lying, cheating, stealing, etc etc etc… they are all inherent to a degree

It’s human nature.

i wouldn’t worry about it. i’m confident that if people believed that not causing violence would bring them greater happiness than causing violence.. they would avoid it by choice.

so, to me, it’s just a matter of education. give “violent people” a reason not to be violent and they’ll listen.

bears always make for great harsh examples. take the most violent person you can imagine and put him in a scenario where he is violently attacking another person or property… insert into that scenario a random angry mother bear. the person will cease causing violence in order to protect their own lives and get away from the bear. the point of the exercise is that people make rational decisions at all times. if you convince them, they will act however you want. you just have to convince them.

hence, you just need a really good anti-violence argument that they can appreciate.

@NaturalMineralWater.. i have no reason to believe that lying, cheating, stealing, etc are inherent in human nature.

@ninjacolin You’ve just used violence to heal a violent person. How is that different? In your example the bear could very well be a giant missile or a gun at a knife fight.

IRT your second post.. I don’t believe that we all ACT on that human nature on a daily basis.. clearly there are those who are able to display some self control.. this, however, is just a matter of belief.. I dunno if @teirem1 wants the conversation to take that spin or not xD

That was just an example to prove that humans will always listen to reason as long as the reason is good enough.

I’m suggesting that you can reason with someone and stop them from violence.. or you can reason with them in advance to prevent them from considering violent actions.

This is how standoffs are often resolved by the cops. By negotiating with a violent person until they submit. If the cops can find the right words to convince the person, they will give up willingly.

@ninjacolin ahh, much better example

too bad people always find a way to create more havoc.. no matter how many we “talk down” .. I believe because to a degree such behavior is inherent

well, you’d have to talk down each and every single person for that.

you’d have to somehow get to all the kids in school with MUCH better methods used and arguments taught against crime and violence than we currently teach.

@ninjacolin Teach them to be like Jesus. (Just a thought)

haha, sure, whatever works i’m all for it.

but according to the stats, i hear that more admitted Atheists are peaceful (on average) than admitted Christians (on average).. something about Prisions being mostly Christians and Muslims and other religions but very very very few atheists.

@ninjacolin Clearly the stats are in the favor of atheists.. based on the sheer number of people who “claim” to be Christian but don’t act like it.. I’ve never been to a church which promoted and condoned behaviors which lead to a prison sentence… if you have, you’re in the wrong church xD

This “fallacy of false cause” is quite common.

ah, i see.

well, either way, i find Jesus’ message was still too heavy on the blame and condemnation of others. i don’t think this attitude is particularly any good for fostering an environment of non-violence.

(although his teachings are great in other areas. eg. turning the other cheek)

@ninjacolin It’s a message of love.. you begin to see that the more you dig. My kids think I’m not loving them when I scold them too.

well, i mean the way he speaks of sheeps and goats for example. it’s the idea that there is such a thing as an evil person. these ideas, i find, are what lead to violence in many cases. for example, in violent protests.

the violent protesters are acting out violently against bodies and property they consider “evil” and deserving of the “justice” they are being served. i think blame leading to condemnation in this way needs to go. Jesus’ words seem to disagree with that though. which is why I’ve come to believe that some of his ideas have to go too.

The problems you’re describing are just evidence of the sinful nature (an inherent evil) that I believe exists. It’s not the lesson at fault, but the student.

lol, well, i know we disagree. i’m just making plain where we disagree.

in the universe you believe is real, there are evil, incorrigible bodies who could use a good slap every now and then.

in the universe i believe is real, there are no evil bodies. everyone can simply learn to act better. no one is incorrigible.

Testosterone will lend itself to either destruction or creation. Just like we need an anti-drug, I think each of us needs an anti-violence. An effective method for channeling our neutral aggression. With this practice in common use, there can be peace.

@ninjacolin Wow, there are no evil bodies in your universe? How do I get there? xD

well, from my perspective, you already are there. :)
you just don’t know it yet

but anyway, you can see how in my universe.. the promulgation of the false notion that there exist such things as Evil Entities hurts my universe’s anti-violence movement.

@ninjacolin In the words of Sam from Quantum Leap: ” Oh boy.”

In ancient times the humans brains were flooded by chemicals that made them feel good when confronting a vicious lion and killing it. The basic brain chemistry is still there. But the reward mechanism also works for other behavior, for example when showing solidarity with other human beings. Makes us feel good too.

I think it depends on the person. Some men are sickened by violence.

I do think performing a series of violent acts lowers your threshold. Having killed once, it is easier to kill again.

I think we not only can, but have a responsibility to rise above any primitive urges. That’s what the frontal lobe is for.

I think it’s grossly dependant on what results are yeilding when resorting to violence. If a child hits another child because he wants something, and their parents scorn them and they are punished, it enforces the notion that violence isn’t acceptable. But if a child slaps one of their parents and makes some sort of funny face and the parent laughs, it’s put into the child’s head that violence is comedic and gets them positive attention.
It’s much the same with adults as well. If someone resorts to violence and they are not punished and even further, it yeilds positive results(makes their life easier in the short term) then it’s engrained in their head that violence is a viable solution to a certain problem.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 I’m not sure I understand that reasoning. What makes the punishment-violence justified?

the reasoning is simple. People do whatever yeilds positive attention or results in short/long term benefit. If a man with issues with dominance gets in an arguement with his wife, hits her, and the arguement stops and she stays with him, it says to him that violence is a solution, and encourages to be violent again the next time they argue.

exactly, boobs-boy. reason. violence has to seem to make sense for anyone to use it.
this is why i say a greater counter argument can prevent violence.

meaning, we can have a violence-free society.. we just have to come up with the right argument for it to teach everyone.

for example.. what if you knew the person you were about to strike was actually innocent and undeserving of that brutality? who would you hit then?

@ninjacolin the largest problem is people who result to violence are often incapable of controlling themselves. One can find many people that will act out aggressively and afterwards realize immediately that they have a problem and feel a deep sense of regret.

involuntary actions are involuntary.
i thought we were talking about the decisions people make.

we’re talking about whether or not violence is inherently addictive, as per the original question.

oh.. weird.. well… addictive.. hmm..
adrenaline rushes are totally fun. no doubt about it.

habit forming. of course! you can totally get used to reacting a certain way to a type of situation. seems obvious to me. still though, whatever your habit is you can be rehabilitated.

yes of course. habbits only form from positive feedback, and unfortunately, that remains to be a problem that’s seldom addressed correctly.

I was born mean,graduated to cruel, downright sadistic these days.
Guess it is addictive, or at least gratifying

curious.. @HarmonyAlexandria are you also kind’a depressed?

I agree, @ABoyNamedBoobs03, i was just thinking about your question and came back to give a very simple example of habits leading to problems.

Imagine a button with a cover. as soon as the cover is lifted you are to hit it as fast as you can. You are being timed for reaction speed:
– First time, the cover is lifted, BAM you hit it. maybe it took you 0.92 seconds
– Second time, BAM!.. 0.71 seconds. you’re getting better at the practice
– Third time, BAM!.. 0.68 seconds. you are approaching your average speed
– Fourth time, BAM!.. 0.67 seconds. this is actually kind’a fun
– Fifth time, BAM-SPLASH! you end up in the hospital because we replaced the Button with a sea urchin without telling you.

Your hitting the sea urchin was involuntary. You formed a habit (in this case, involving “violence” in the form of hitting a target as hard/fast as you can) for a particular situation. Just before hitting the sea urchin, you probably saw it for just a second but just weren’t quick enough to stop yourself.

Another tester perhaps successfully stopped himself from hitting the sea urchin.
Another tester still perhaps didn’t even realize the button had been switched until after he saw that his hand was shooting blood.

A few weeks later after you’re healed up. We ask you to come test again. You politely refuse.

The point is, we have habits yes, but once we learn that a habit is no longer useful to us we find ways to cease it. Sometimes we’re quick to react to new information, Sometimes we’ve invested too much into a bad decision already to prevent the repercussions and Sometimes the new information just doesn’t permeate our thoughts and hence fails to affect our decisions at all.

In another test, we could try telling the subject 1 second before lifting the cover that the the button will be replaced with a dangerous item to hit. Chances are, there would be less hospital visits in these examples. This is prevention.

and this ^ was a weird post.

lol was a little odd, but it’s a good example, still don’t know why you picked a sea urchin specifically though. XD

Essentially that’s what it comes down to. Helping people realize that nothing good comes of violence, in fact just the opposite.
with that though comes to very real danger of attempting something simular to What happened in “A ClockWork Orange” one must be careful not to take away choice in the matter.

@ninjacolin No, I guess there is some truth to the old-wives tale that depression is anger directed inward as well.

I view violence, or any other dirty trick, as a means to an end, many times it’s the shortest, most cost effective route between to points.

Like everyone else, I have wants and purchasing them outright is not always an option. Sometimes the price is set ridiculously high or compromise/concessions are required. Let’s say I don’t like who I’m forced to compromise with, and/or that they have nothing I want either today or latter.

The most logical choice of action would be to take them out, removing them from the playing fields using violence or some other coercive/manipulative/underhanded means as not only would I get what I want today, I won’t find myself in the position of having to negotiate with them latter on some other issue either.

I see, @HarmonyAlexandria. I appreciate hearing your logic. :)

I wouldn’t say that you qualify as ADDICTED to violence though. You choose it as a rational option moment by moment. Addiction is usually associated with chemical/biological requirements.

In your case, however, you sound like you simply haven’t heard a better argument against violence. Which is why you continue to pursue it. (on that note, i feel certain that there is definitely better logic that you have not considered. What you consider to be the most logical conclusion is very clearly not so to me. we should talk about it sometime)

So, @ABoyNamedBoobs03, i guess my conclusion is that violence isn’t really addictive. It just makes sense to some people in certain situations. Sure you can form a superficial habit of it.. but you can and will stop the second you feel the rational need to stop.

Committing violence can be enjoyable but is not addictive unless made so by the individual (similar to many addictions).
Incidentally I dislike the stigma that is typically attached both to the concept of and term ‘violence’ amongst western culture (alongside others). Granted violence, if uncontrolled, will often lead to the detriment of all involved but this does not inevitably imply that violence cannot be constructive. It is simply a matter of context and application.

Violence may become more frequent the more it’s engaged in—since “breaking” the wall of societal taboos on aggression and becomes easier the more you do it.

So while it may not be addictive, it is more likely after incidents.