Has the U.S. ever been involved in a war, where lies and propaganda were not used by the government to get the people behind it?
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Has TheIowaCynic ever been involved in a fluther question, where lies and propaganda were not used to get the people behind it?
I know the mod is coming…
Has any country? Propaganda is part of the game. It’s to get the citizenry behind the effort and to throw the enemy off track. War is not simply playing “nice nice”.
Lies and propaganda are the bread and butter of politics, and I fail to see why the U.S. exclusively should be any more or less ashamed of it than any other country. They weren’t the first to slather copious amounts of dishonesty to just about everything, and they certainly won’t be the last. Lying is a human trait, not an American trait.
@Likeradar Is there a lie in any part of this question? It’s a totally legit question
@ru2bz46 Well, I think “back in the day,” leaders were more straightforward about war. It was more like “Ok Boys….saddle up and we’re gonna go conquer, rape, pillage and plunder and we’ll all get the spoils”
They didn’t hide behind moralistic rhetoric
@TheIowaCynic Maybe the citizenry understood war better since it was far bloodier and more “real” due to the lack of ICBM’s and such; soldiers had to get up close and personal. That does not mean for a minute that lies and propaganda were used any less.
“Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and endangering the country. It works the same in every country!”
Herman Goering
(Hitler’s Reichsmarschall at the Nuremburg Trials)
Sections 213, 215, 411, 505, 802, and 805.
Need I say more?
@Bagardbilla What you miss out on there, is that Goering wasn’t describing Germany with that very famous statement. He was describing the U.S. and Soviet involvement in the war.
Totally subjective. One man’s lies and propaganda are an other man’s patriotism.
Just because propaganda and lies are ubiquitous in political justifications for war does not mean all wars are morally equivalent.
Nor does it mean that any war is the result of a conspiracy.
I highly doubt it. I think lies (and untruths, or lies by omission) and propaganda are a big part of support for wars and the like. Hello Red Scare.
P.S. – As a public, we’re lied to all the time about all kinds of stuff. If you want some facts don’t expect to have them fed to you. Not much you see on TV is true, and the news is pretty much a show. <climbs down from soapbox>
@Allie…where the fuck do you even get a soapbox in this day and age? Bed, Soapbox, & Beyond?
“In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.”
– Winston Churchill
“In politics it is necessary either to betray one’s country or the electorate. I prefer to betray the electorate.”
...and…
“The perfection preached in the Gospels never yet built up an Empire. Every man of action has a strong dose of optimism, pride, hardness and cunning. But all these things will be forgiven him, indeed they will be regarded as high qualities, if he can make of them the means to achieve great ends.”
– Charles de Gaulle
@Qingu If the government is lying to us, this is PROOF of a conspiracy. This is a case-closed argument. There isn’t a single person, disseminating the garbage we were told, that got us into WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, or the first or second Iraq war. These required a number of people working together….....a conspiracy.
@TheIowaCynic, nonsense. A conspiracy entails more than simply lying or disseminating propaganda. The point of a conspiracy is that you believe “they” function as a unified, secret front that drives historical events.
The reality of history and the politics of warfare is never so black-and-white. In fact, I would wager that a large number of the “lies” told to us by government officials are spoken by people who may not even be aware that they are lying or misrepresenting the truth.
Look at the Iraq War. Was there lying and propoganda used? Absolutely! Did Cheney and other major players at the White House have a plan to invade Iraq before 9/11 and callously used the sentiment after the attacks to cheerlead the war? Absolutely!
Now, were they lying about the threat of Saddam Hussein and the weapons of mass destruction? That is not so clear at all. Many people at the White House and the CIA obviously did believe Saddam was developing WMD. They simply did a sloppy and irresponsible job of investigating their claim before the invasion and then dishonestly peddled their claim (which they believed) as truth, but that is quite different from inventing the story of WMD wholesale.
Incidentally, elsewhere you’ve speculated that “the bombers” were responsible for 9/11 and that the government could easily have been involved. How do you know this might be the case? Because “they” orchestrated the Iraq War and “they” needed emotional justification, so therefore, “they” could easily have faked 9/11 and would have incentive to do so. If government officials are dishonest then it means that the government must function as a unified secretive cabal, a “they,” that orchestrates mass murders to achieve its geopolitical aims.
What a childish view of history and politics.
@Qingu I only wish I could click Great Answer more than once.
@Qingu You have, once again….....lied. You have just spoken an outright LIE.
You seem somehow obsessed with the idea that I think 9/11 is a conspiracy. Let’s put this to the side for a moment, as it has nothing to do with this question…...NOTHING AT ALL.
You seem fixated on this idea that I am a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, when I have never said anything remotely in that direction. Ever. Not once. Ever.
The rest of what you say is nonsense. We WERE lied into this recent Gulf War that, incidentally, I fought in. The evidence that our government knew full well, that Saddam was nowhere in the ballpark of being able to produce an Atomic weapon is overwhelming and yet Colin Powell went to the U.N. and gave nonsense testimony about Yellow Cake and aluminum tubes.
So sorry. You’re wrong and please get this ridiculous idea out of your head that I am a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and stop misquoting me.
I don’t think the government “knew full well.” I think they, at various points, highly suspected. I think many, including very possibly Bush and Cheney, were convinced he was, because they are stubborn, simplistic fools. And they simply did not wait for the evidence to corroborate their suspicions.
My rule of history: never use conspiracies to explain what good old fashioned stupidity can explain just as easily.
Also, I asked you who you thought was behind 9/11 and you said, “I have no idea. I’m assuming the bombers were probably behind it and supported by a wide network of folks.” You are clearly a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. I’m sorry you reject the label, and I admit it has pejorative connotations, but look at what you said, dude.
@Qingu The 9/11 bombers were supported by a wide network of folks. They were supported by Bin Laden. They were supported by the folks who financed bin laden. They were supported by the people who planned the attack. If I’m not mistaken, the government has implicated 22 people in those attacks. That constitutes a “wide network of folks” Stop putting making STUPID accusations
Hold on. The word “bombers” is what held me up, because I wouldn’t call the people who flew planes into the buildings “bombers.”
There is a whole movement, the “9/11 truth movement” that believes the buildings were blown up by bombs placed in them by the Bush administration.
If you actually believe the mainstream explanation than I take back my accusation.
@Qingu There’s something very wrong with you. You need to learn to LISTEN a bit better as opposed to deciding you know exactly what kind of person it is you’re talking to, before going off on a wild series of obsessive accusations. You have repeatedly misquoted…..and more importantly than anything else, you continue to bring your obsessive nonsense into every question I post.
In the future, do me a favor and attempt to stick with the subject of the questions, and stop psychoanalyzing me.
@theiowacynic
No I did not know Goering was talking about the US & Russia in that quote!
Wow.
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