In Western Civlization, what ideas or concepts are the most "sacred cow," or socially difficult to question?

The only thing I can think of right now is of taboos like incest.

@The_Compassionate_Heretic Good one. So you mean, people who might suggest that it be ok? I think you’re right. The people at NAMBLA are probably even less popular than the folks at the Institute for Historical Review or MLK jr critics. Good answer, I think

@TheIowaCynic
Yes society generally assumes this sort of behavior is undesirable and unacceptable.

NAMBLA disgusts me and should be disbanned immediately.

Democracy!
Socrates, Aristotle and many other “fathers of democracy” were very afraid of the mediocrity stemming out of the lowest common denominator of the masses.
My 2 ¥ !

The idea that religion should hold some sort of special status that makes it more influential and less questionable than other beliefs based solely on faith rather than evidence.

Never eat cute animals.

@crisw I’m gonna 100% disagree with that. Criticizing religion is VERY acceptable in Western Civilization. That is done all the time. People criticize religion every day, in every way, and in every form of media that exists.

@chiffonade

Not sure of that one, Our innate ability to rationalize our behavior and overcome cognitive dissonance leads to people eating “cute” animals all of the time- lambs, ducklings, deer, etc.

@Bagardbilla I would agree. Democracy is something of a sacred cow. If you’re of the opinion that it’s not the greatest form of government ever, people will immediately think you’re a fascist or some kind of unreformed neanderthal

@TheIowaCynic

There is a difference between criticizing religion (which I agree does happen, although look at the tremendous negative response to stories like the atheist bus ads in England) and questioning whether religion should be allowed to have any impact on our society. Why do television shows consult religious figures for ethical advice, for example?

@The_Compassionate_Heretic And yet in the Classical and pre-Classical Greek world, Adult Males engaging in a mentor/subject relationship with young boys that was not only accepted, it was considered a sacred relationship and part of a cycle. The boy would than grow up, get married and “mentor,” a young boy of his own, even bringing gifts to the boys family as a way of “wooing,” him into this relationship…....so it’s noteworthy how ideals change over time.

*The right some people feel entitles them to breed, regardless if they can afford to or not.
This country didn’t always have a social welfare system to support families.

@crisw So you’re saying that people who suggest that religion be outlawed are somewhat marginalized? OK…....I guess you’d have a point there.

The reason people consult religious figures on TV shows, rarely has to do with asking them theological questions. “The Today Show,” won’t bring a priest on and ask them how many times one should go to confession if they want to get to heaven.

Religious figures are generally consulted for “spiritual advice” because people seek spiritual advice. Most folks happen to think that there is something more out there than the purely physical…....I think this explains why religion has and will continue to have an impact on society.

Are you telling us that proposing the banning of religion is taboo? I guess I would have to agree, but I’d put that in the same sphere as banning political parties or banning certain types of clothing. That DOES seem a bit strange to most of us.

@VzzBzz Excellent answer Bee! I think you’re right. Questioning people’s right to breed is very taboo. I get in trouble for it allot.

@VzzBzz

good answer

@TheIowaCynic
Not outlawed.

Just regarded as no more valid than belief in Santa Claus, alien abduction, or fairies at the bottom of the garden- or any other belief supported by “faith” alone.

@VzzBzz

Maybe one of the only benefits of the OctoMom debacle is opening that taboo up for questioning :>P

OK….......so what you’re saying is that it’s Taboo to suggest that religion is a fairy tale? I’m gonna disagree 100%. That’s not taboo at all. People do it all the time.

yeah right, in the US, show me one Atheist holding any sort of public office of some weight

@TheIowaCynic

People suggest that religion is a fairy tale- true. But look how they are normally treated!

In addition, what is even more harshly regarded is taking the “religion is a fairy tale” idea to its logical conclusions. No tax exempt status for churches, no special concessions to religious beliefs of any kind, etc.

@crisw: That is very sad example because the woman is mentally damaged.
What disturbs me more is growing up with people whose attitudes were, “there’s always a way for one more baby, no child is unwelcome, that’s why we have social services to help the poor, everyone should be able to raise a family if they want to”.
I don’t agree with that.

@VzzBzz

Absolutely. What may be even more taboo is that I don’t think people should have the right to breed their dogs just because they want to, either :>)

@TaoSan You and Crisw are either misunderstanding this question or you have an elevated sense of false-victim status.

This questions asks you to think of something that it is socially unacceptable to question. I said “the holocaust” and MLK jr. There have been some other great answers. Incest and adult/child sex. Nobody of credit promotes that. Democracy is a good one. Not too many people promoting monarchy. The right to breed is a good one. That’s VERY taboo. Not too many folks suggest preventing people from being allowed to breed.

Criticizing religion, however, is not taboo at all. That’s 100% not taboo. People do it all the time. Just because public figures feel pressure to pay lip service to a general idea of a God is not evidence that there is a taboo against criticizing religion.

Criticizing religion is not taboo at all

@crisw I think you misunderstood the question. what I was asking is what are the “off limits” topics. What are the things that “decent folk,” simply don’t talk about or suggest. Criticism of religion is very, very common. Look at this website or others like it. People criticize religion all the time. Even suggesting the removal of tax exempt status for churches happens ALLOT. I think you’re confusing any resistance at all…....with something being “taboo”

@crisw: the breeding of pet animals still boggles me since I assume “anyone I know” is of the mindset to neuter/spay them and to adopt rather than buy but that hasn’t been the case. I still cringe when people lovingly coo to their pet, “oh, it wouldn’t be fair to her to fix her before she has at least one litter.” gack

@TheIowaCynic

People question MLK all the time! In fact, here in San Diego, we had a giant public debate a few years ago because a public street was named after him. Some who disagreed actually got a referendum on the ballot to overturn the street naming- and prevailed. So I am not sure where you get the idea that MLK is a taboo subject.

@TaoSan
There is one atheist member of the U.S. Congress- Pete Stark of California.

@TheIowaCynic

not at all any victim feelings. Just thought I point out that while it “appears” to be off-thread it is not that far away from a “hidden” taboo.

But you’re right, it doesn’t suit the question really.

Thus, I’ll throw in child labor, as in, 12 year olds in coal mine. Unthinkable in Western Civilization (yet we happily shop at WalMart).

@crisw OK…....Maybe MLK is not the BEST example. Maybe some of the other examples (the holocaust, incest, right to breed) were better.. I think MLK jr was a dirtbag and am constantly confounded by this glowing, god-like image of him that we’re given.

But it’s still kinda taboo to talk about it. Prominent public figures pay homage to the guy like he was a god. But ok…...I’ll agree to your point. MLK jr is only “kinda taboo” Criticizing him is still a GREAT deal more taboo than criticizing religion! I would happily put this to a test. If I were to put a question on here, asking people to tell me if there’s anything wrong with disliking MLK jr, the question would either not be allowed at all, or I’d flooded with crazy accusations.

If you were to ask “is there anything wrong with criticizing religion,” I bet not a single person would suggest there was.

@TaoSan So promoting child labor is taboo, you’re saying?

@TheIowaCynic

RE: MLK vs. religion as taboos-
I’d like to see you get a referendum passed in San Diego that stated that no prayers could be said at public meetings, or that churches should be subjected to a local tax, or that people could not be exempt from getting their kids vaccinated because it’s a religious taboo. No way. Won’t happen.

Yet the anti-MLK referendum passed easily.

As I recall, the same thing happened in Arizona when they proposed a MLK holiday.

@TheIowaCynic

approving of it verbally is. Promoting it obviously not, cause that is what one does shopping at certain outlets.

@TheIowaCynic You’re setting up a false-example to prove your point. Criticizing MLK jr. is kinda-taboo. I admit it’s not the BEST example. On a 1–10 scale, criticizing MLK jr is maybe a 6. Suggesting incest or that people shouldn’t be allowd to breed are probably 10 and 9, respectively. They are MORE taboo. But criticizing religion? On the taboo scale, that gets a 2. It’s very untaboo

@TheIowaCynic

How is it a false example?

Again, there is a huge difference between criticizing religion and acting on such criticism.

@both

may I mention that you both seem to be running in a circle now?

@TaoSan

Yep. You’re right. I’ll step aside now :>)

@crisw Let’s imagine that people went around, suggesting that a National Holiday be named after John Cardinal O’Connor from New York. Such a proposal would be instantly quashed. People would laugh. Finding evidence of resistance to an MLK jr holiday (where the gov pays it’s employees for not showing up to work) does not mean that criticizing him is not taboo. It’s VERY taboo. How many main stream people criticize MLK? Not many…...very off limits.

People criticize churches ALL THE TIME. It happens ALL THE TIME. In the government, in newspapers, everwhere. It’s very commong

What about slavery? Rather than people owning people, institutions own people. As in, coming out of college/grad school at ages 22–27 with over $100,000 in debt. This will take 30 years to pay off.

What in the hell is there to question about MLK? I have never heard one argument against him, even a ridiculous one.

I’m all ears.

The concept that incest is wrong.

@asmonet Well this proves my point. Most people haven’t because they’ve been given a very specific of image of MLK. It not a matter of debate that he plagiarized his PHD thesis. It was a clear plagiarism. There’s no question about this…..people who know and study MLK agree that this was the case. He also didn’t write the “I have a dream,” speech and spent tremendous amounts of SCLC money on prostitutes. There are many more but I’ll just use those three because they’re not disputed. His name also wasn’t Martin Luther King. It was Mike King. I am glad that you wrote that though…...that you’ve never heard of anything bad about him because it highlights what I“m talking about. He’s a “sacred cow,” that we’re told to worship and the story we’re given about him is a very proscribed one.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/mlking.asp

@AlfredaPrufrock Why is talking about that a “sacred cow”? People talk about that all the time?

If you’re in debt it’s talked about, but if you’re an educator, politician, banker or the media, no one ever tells you, as you’re signing the loans, that you will be in debt for the rest of your life. While there are alternatives to universities, they are neither well-promoted nor explained. American society predicates success on going to college. The reality is, the while everyone knows the middle class is vanishing, the rate at which it’s slipped away equates it to a landslide, not gradual erosion. As a society, we never really talk to young people about money in a constructive manner.

@AlfredaPrufrock I appreciate what you are saying, but I think you missed the point of this op. What I was asking is for thing that are just “taboo” to speak of…....real no-no’s. Things that will instantly get you dis-invited from cocktail parties if you talk about them in a way contrary to the accepted party line. I’ve heard some great responses like democracy (everybody is for democracy!), Incest or adult/child sexual relations (not too many advocates of that) and I said The Holocaust and MLK jr.

I think what you’re referring to is an unfortunate situation that has unfolded in regards to debt. That is bad and prehaps, not spoken of enough, but I don’t think it constitutes a “sacred cow” or something really off limits to speak of.

I probably should have worded my question better.

@TheIowaCynic: Did you even bother reading the article you linked?

The name is accurate as far as I’m concerned. Many, many, students plagiarize, this isn’t shocking really. The I Have A Dream speech has only one similarity, the end phrasing. The rest is completely original. And there is absolutely no evidence that MLK ever slept with prostitutes on SCLC’s dime.

You might want to read your own sources.
They directly contradict your statements.

And debating the Holocaust isn’t so much a taboo as it is a giant neon sign blinking the words:

I’M IGNORANT.

@asmonet You’re an interesting guy to talk to. First you’ll say “you have absolutely no evidence,” and then when it’s presented, you’ll attempt to downplay it.

The name is accurate “AS FAR AS (YOU’RE) CONCERNED”? is that right? so the fact that it wasn’t his actual name is a secondary consideration? How about his plagiarism? Was it not plagiarized….....AS FAR AS YOUR CONCERNED? that must be nice, seeing history, not through the lens of evidence, but through what makes you feel better.

I would encourage you to read up on MLK jr.s PHD thesis. It wasn’t a paper for anthro 101…...it was his PHD DISSERTATION. Those are NOT plagiarized all the time. you couldn’t get away with what he did today because of the internet and the better ability to cross reference.

Now as to your final suggestion that there isn’t a shred of evidence that he rented hookers on the SCLC’s dime, how much do you want to bet?

You started this off by saying that “I’ve never heard one argument against him”

If you want to be an informed person, you need to start READING or doing something other than play station with your time.

You have the historical knowledge of somebody raised under a rock

First off, I’m a woman, not a guy.
Names are as the website says, fluid. I know two people who go by names given to them by family that are not recorded on their birth certificate, and in one case all legal documents are under this name and have not been a problem for either of them.

Yes, it was plagiarized, I am not debating that. But the fact was not discovered until after MLK was dead. And you’re very much mistaken if you think dissertations aren’t plagiarized to some degree fairly frequently.

I did read, I googled, I cracked open a book I have on important figures in the last hundred years and I did my homework.

And for the record, I have not touched a Playstation in over two and a half years, and unless you’re stalking me, you have no way of knowing what I do with my personal time.

So excuse me, but I beg to differ.

@asmonet

As this conversation began, you stated “I have never heard one argument against him, even a ridiculous one.” I’m glad to shown you the error of your thinking and the undeserved, sacrosanct nature of Martin Luther King jr.

You have shown me no error in my thinking, please elaborate.
Having not been exposed to criticism is no fault of mine, and as far as I can tell there isn’t much of it. Almost every ‘good’ figure has some sort of sordid past, I see no reason to vilify a man because he is a human and susceptible to the same failings we all are.

I still do not agree with your logic, or even that your point has any real merit or application.

@asmonet Than aside from being somebody who does things like bring irrelevant topics into threads…....and stalks me…......you’re also showing yourself incapable of seeing fault in your own thinking.

Bummer to be you

I’m sorry, I’m stalking you? Good to know, I wasn’t aware I was up to such devious activities.

What topic did I bring into any of your threads that was irrelevant?