Is peace in the Middle East possible in our lifetime?

I highly doubt it. I think about the great strides people have made in the US over the last 50 years or so in terms of acceptance and tolerance and it gives me hope, but I don’t think things will move so quickly there. I hope I am wrong.

Only if 10000 Barenboim orchestras are created. We need one million friendships on the individual level. Like what happened between Germans and the French after WW II. There is no military solution long term. It’s still necessary short term in my opinion.

Nope. The Arabs simply won’t tolerate Jews living in “their” hood. Ever.

I believe it’s completely possible. The past is thick with bloodshed, but forgiveness is possible, and the future hasn’t happened yet.

This question has been asked and explored. See the siblings to the right (or click here).

Most arabs I have spoken with have no problem with jews. Just with Israel. There is a difference. A good start would be for Israel to leave the occupied territories. But of course, it takes two to tango.

Nope, never, unless isreal ceases to exist

Yeah, that’s not really an option to go back to being Palestine, and wouldn’t solve anything. When Israel comes to it’s senses and realize that they have the ball, it might happen.

I agree

I’m just throwing this out there, but, “Yes. Peace in our lifetime is possible.”
I give short odds a nuke will be used by a lunatic extremist group with nothing to lose. That will be followed by 6 nukes from the lunatic extremist group that just lost a lot. The heat released will turn the region to melted glass. Peaceful indeed. :-(

I sure hope I’m wrong….

Doesn’t look like it.

Not likely

As long as groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and others exist, no chance.

Don’t forget about the Jews

Sure it is, all we need is to invent some way of resurrecting Hitler, then giving him some nukes. Problem solved.

Now if you were looking for a peaceful solution, well, that’s a different story altogether. Maturity comes into it. And I don’t think we can realistically hope for peace, especially when America’s interests lie with promoting the sense of instability in the region. Peace on Earth would be a horrible thing to happen to an already ailing economy that is heavily based on selling wooden swords to half the world and metal shields to the other half.

One extra problem that few people notice is this: let’s say that all parties involved have enlightened, peaceful leaders that manage to somehow reach a fair, viable, lasting solution for the region. And they sign, shake hands, start hugging each other. How are they going to sell this to their own people? Any leader going back to the Palestinians and saying “we agreed to let them have Jerusalem and in return they’ll give us Gaza and leave us alone” will be shot on sight. And the same will happen to any Israeli that says “they promised to hand over all of their weapons as long as we stop building new settlements”. The hatred and pain is just so deeply rooted that this has become personal, not merely historical. It’s a vendetta between families that have lost loved ones, and anyone who ignores that will be seen as a traitor.

Sadly, I think it will take a couple more generations, at least.
Right now, 1967 is still talked about as though it were yesterday.

You can see some small signs of progress, like Netanyahu not wanting to ally his government with Lieberman. But those signs are so small compared to the big picture.

There also has to be some kind of arrangement over the tourist dollars that are really an unspoken part of the tension over Jerusalem. It will only come when the children of children today finally get tired of the unending violence and find a way to respect each other.

Jack79, these things go on and on when one or two sides in a conflict prefers killing to take the pain of compromise. In a criminal case the two parties are not allowed to duke it out on the street. They are judged by a third neutral party. But when it comes to state entities, there is no such thing really. It’s more of the opposite. Other states supporting one side or the other doesn’t really provide a solution.

It’s not black and white, no simple solutions of course. It’s a head twisting puzzle, as most things when it comes to people. Both sides in the conflict have good claims to the same land. In my opinion the two-state solution is very good, but going back to Israel being Palestine doesn’t work either. We have forgotten the semite terrorist groups blowing up people in the british mandate of Palestine.

I wonder what in the world God was thinking when he gave promises to Moses that can obviously not be kept. I guess that’s what absent dads do.

@Jack79 Ridculous doesn’t even begin to descibe what you’ve written. Explain how Hitler with nukes would bring peace to the Middle East?

Gaza is de facto a part of Palestinian Authority, controlled by (democratically elected Hamas). Jerusalem is Israel’s.

Peace treaties have been signed in the past, and continue to thrive between Israel and Jordan, and Israel and Egypt.

Free speech is one thing…

@oratio true, but there have been several UN resolutions saying what should happen in this case. The problem is that the strongest country in the world chooses to implement these resolutions in Iraq, but not in Israel. If the USA bombed the shit out of the Jews like they did in Iraq, the problem would be solved (or as “solved” as it is in Iraq). But as with many other cases of arbitration, what the law says, what the court says, and what really happens in the end can be 3 entirely different things.
Israel and Palestine aside, the intrinsic problem the UN faces is that it is comprised of countries which exist here on planet Earth and have their own issues with each other. Only an extra-terrestrial court (with spaceships to back up its decisions) could implement such resolutions.

@Zen the first comment was meant sarcastically (Hitler called his plan “the final solution”).

<edit> chopped off the rest. Not worth the hassle.

@Jack79 I do not understand your way of thinking or where you are going with this. Sarcasm? You then “explained” your comment with “If the USA bombed the shit out of the Jews like they did in Iraq, the problem would be solved.”

Israel, the only democracy in the ME, is an important American ally. Why would the US want to bomb the shit out of the Jews? Explain, I’m curious.

Iraq, in your equation, is a country. Israel is just a bunch of Jews?

Actually that’s not true. Iran is a democracy. A theocratic one, but still, it is a democracy.

@oratio A democracy? You must be joking. Go visit there (making sure you don’t identify yourself as an American) and ask any woman if she can drive, vote, or decide anything for herself. Now say something bad about the government in public. You’ll be whisked away and never heard from again. A democracy? Oh come on.

Heh, It seems you haven’t been there, by the sound of it. I said a democracy, not America. Neither did I say it was a great democracy. I didn’t say anything about womens right either. Isn’t Bolivia a democracy? Botswana? Look into womens rights in these countries.

Have you ever spoken to an Iranian?

I can assure you I wouldn’t be whisked away, but then again, I’m not american. I’m a freedom fries chewing, european surrender monkey.

@oratio Read ON

Yep, and yet Mexico was called a democracy for 70 years. They call Iraq a democracy now, Nigeria is a splendid work of a democratic state of Montesquieu’an principles. Take a glance at Russia.

Look around you, what is called a democracy is not what you mean by democracy. Few democracies work like the US. If it is by that measure you judge a democracy, there are few countries outside the western sphere that would make it. The democracy of Iran is not good, but still it’s a democracy.

The iranians don’t hate americans generally. They do dislike the US. So do the russians.

@oratio I shall simply restate what I said initially, and shant continue anymore: Israel is the only democracy, without italics or explanations or what-not, in the ME.

well then.

I am curious though, what would you call Iran? You might not answer this, probably not, but if it’s not a democracy, what is it? Would be interesting to hear, honestly.

Technically, even the Palestinians have a democratic election.

The reason many of these seem to be pseudo-democracies is because of the suppression of political opponents whose opinion differ from the current ruling class. This doesn’t mean they are not democracies, just that they are hollow examples of the democratic process.

Yes, much better put. That’s more what I wanted to say.

I’ve expressed my views on this before:

How can anyone in the civilized West be sympathetic with Hamas’ cause? I’m not. The civilian voters in Gaza made a big mistake voting for Hamas. They were voting for confrontation and hatred and death and suicide. Democracy is a responsibilty. Voting is a responsibility. Voters will get what they elect.

Of course there are also extremists on the Israeli side. An example are fanatic ultraorthodox Jews and settlers preaching hatred, and there are terrorists like Baruch Goldstein, an American born Israeli physician who perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, killing 29 Muslims at prayer in the Ibrahimi Mosque within the Cave of the Patriarchs, and wounding another 150 in a shooting attack.

But I think we are talking about far less than 10% of the Israeli population, who engage in this kind of extreme thinking and hatred. Hamas was elected by more than 50% of the Palestinian people. The really sad thing is that actually a majority democratically elected terrorists. Even Hitler only got 43.9 %. Therefore I’m always telling people, democracy is not only a gift but also a responsibility. Not voting is irresponsible behavior. Voting for extremist parties is irresponsible behavior. The majority of the people in Gaza is guilty of that. The Israeli voters should also not vote for extremist parties.

Like I said earlier, this still means that Israel has to be more creative to allow the moderate Palestinians to live in peace and prosperity. At some point the circle of violence has to be replaced by something more intelligent. In Europe the Germans and the French killed each other for centuries and there are examples of other countries. Today there are regular student exchanges. People fall in love with each other, have parties together, innovate together, use the same currency and so forth.

Daniel Barenboim came to fame as a pianist but now is as well-known as a conductor, and for his work with an orchestra of young Arab and Jewish musicians, based in Seville, Spain, called the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, which he co-founded with the late Palestinian-American intellectual and activist Edward Said, whom Barenboim called his best friend. Barenboim has also been an outspoken critic of the Israeli settlements. (from Wikipedia)

We need more ideas like that in my opinion. Weapons alone won’t solve all the problems in the Middle East. You can’t order people at gunpoint to create a democracy. We need human imagination and innovation to solve the conflict. We need to try new things.

@Zen the explanation was in the rest of the post, but I decided to just delete it. I have learnt the hard way that trying to have a political or historical discussion with Americans is about as easy as discussing astrophysics with my 4-year-old.

There’s this Hollywood fairytale that goes something like this:

Once upon a time there were these wonderful people called the Jews. Then an evil madman called Hitler came along, and he put them all in ovens and turned them into soap. But some managed to escape, and created their own country called Israel in the Holy Land given to them by God. And the good Americans helped them. And then some mad muslim terrorists came along and bombed the Twin Towers. And some jerk called Jack79 goes and makes rude comments on the internet.

Which is about as true as calling Hitler “a moderate leader promoting democracy and stability in Europe”, which is what the American ambassador called him in 1939. Which, ironically enough, is what Ronald Reagan had to say about Saddam Houssein. And don’t even get me started on the Madelaine Albright relationship with Ossama Bin Laden.

International politics is a lot more complicated than what the CNN allows you to know.

and now, once again, I’m the wicked messenger

@oratio lol at absent dads.

@Zen
He he, yes, sometimes I get it right.

@Jack79
You actually just set american intellectuality to a level of a 4-year old. He he, I think you are gonna get spanked.

Madeleine Albright and Mr. Bin? What are you implying? What would be the O-man’s connection there?

Well my daughter is quite smart for a 4-year-old, so it was actually meant as a compliment :P

btw she can name all the planets in the solar system, so that’s almost as good as knowing the names of all the countries in the Middle East.

@Jack79
Oh… I don’t think there are many people who can name more than 3 countries over there. Great Jebus, she can do that? Quite impressive really. Tell me, does it include Pluto or not? Eris?

Can I ask you, are you a man of woman? I wonder cause it’s not common for men to be a single parent.

She knows Pluto, though of course the knowledge of astronomy for children is more narrative than scientific. “Once upon a time there was a tiny little planet called Pluto, but then he was kicked out of the planets’ company because he was too small. And poor Pluto cried, while Jupiter, who was the biggest of all, laughed”

I am the guy in the picture. My situation is complicated.

@Jack79
Ha ha, ah well. I am sure there is a guy in there. But he is very very small and doesn’t seem to have legs. Complication sucks. I have a 3-year old, but he doesn’t live with me.

It’s possible. I’d say it would take some new processes with a lot of commitment to peace, and assistance of well-educated neutral moderators trained in non-violent communication.

Yes, of course.

One must understand the history of the Middle East to even begin to know how to approach the situation. It has been an area of immense wealth and prosperity. Always has been. Even today the amount of riches there are great.
Honestly, all we can hope for is peaceful negotiations with these countries. Keep in mind the Middle East is extremely business oriented.
For instance a place like Dubai. Which is literally where the riches of the rich reside. If you want to prosper in a place like this you must learn customs and etiquette.
We as foreigners must be sensitive to ancient practices that have been done in Iran for centuries.
Yes, there is a blending of our East to West cultures happening at this time. So with great joy we enter this new era of prosperity across the globe. Honoring the talents that each country brings to the table.