What can new users do to feel welcome?
Ive spoken to more than a couple people here who have said they don’t exactly feel welcome. I’ve read several posts saying they have stopped asking questions all together and are lurking instead.
Observing members:
0
Composing members:
0
140 Answers
When I have been a new-user on various sites I always start off as a lurker. Every site has its own personality and unwritten rules (in addition to the written ones) and that is the best way I know to learn what it and they are.
When a bunch of Askvillers first came to Fluther there were some growing pains and adjustments. Now many of those same Askvillers are indistinguishable from Flutherers (actually some of them have stopped being Askvillers altogether).
My suggestion to a new participant is to stick your toe in first to see what the water is like before you do a cannonball and splash everyone.
Honestly, I think what new users can do the most to feel welcome is:
*Lurk a bit to get a feel for the place.
*Leave all preconceptions of what this place is at the door.
*Read the guidelines and work to follow them.
*Focus on crafting quality responses and questions so that others can get an idea of who they are and how they think.
Edited in response to Darwin’s answer: I moved with the Askville migration. Now I’m a mod.
Well, it seems as if new users are treated a little harshly and then accepted in. When I was new, I felt unwelcome at first as well, but I sucked it up and dove in. Now, I am a part of this community and it’s great! New users to prove their mettle. If you pass the test, great! If you don’t, then there’s one more profile that just kinda sits here, doing nothing…
Also, again, sounding kinda harsh, many of the new users don’t seem to understand the rules here and so just get angry.
I agree with EmpressPixie. Another thing they can do is visit the Chat Room to gain a better understanding of this site’s culture.
Say something nasty about me, people don’t really like me here, my comments get removed and people attack my views for some reason. So join in the fun! Rip me to shreds!
Oh! And realize that when we, the collective, correct you, we aren’t attacking you. We’re correcting behavior to help you fit in better.
If someone posts something rude and nasty, don’t ALWAYS take it personally (sometimes you should) or assume the person’s nasty because you are new. Fluther has its share of nasty people who are pretty much nasty to most people, old or new.
write great questions and answers! youll love getting lurve.
Not take anything personally. That’s the gist of it, really.
ALSO, if you feel someone was nasty to you, take a good, long, objective look at the last thing you said TO that person. Did you say something that could have been interpreted as an attack?
and make a point to make friends. we dont bite :) hard
I’m working on feeling ‘welcome’ as well! Heck, I just answer whatever and ask whatever. I haven’t seen any mean people on here… yet :P
Personally, I don’t care whether or not someone is “new”. That is completely irrelevant to me….
I take stock in the type of questions an individual asks, how they answer questions, their overall tone and their general behavior on Fluther proper and in the chatroom. If it is someone I want to interact w/, I do, and if not, then, I don’t…
Any particular site isn’t for everyone, nor should it be….also, there are jerks everywhere, including Fluther. If they had a bad experience w/ a handful of people that doesn’t mean that they should condemn the whole site.
Play nice. Lurk. Read the guidelines.
You’ll be good if you do all that.
I’ve only been here three months so I’m still kind of new. My first few weeks I gave answers and felt like no one really cared what I said. Sometimes I reacted badly to something because I thought people were being dismissive and rude. After a little while I realized that like in the real world, you don’t just meet a new group of people and expect to be part of the circle. They need to get to know you, you need to get to know them.
If you come in like a bossy whiney brat, no one will want to be your friend. Most people learn this on the school playground.
When I first joined I tried just to be myself and answer as many questions that I had an opinion on. I’m sure not everyone agrees with me all the time. I have found that Fluther is about sharing and caring not so much about trying to be liked which will come later.
Try to fill out your profile. It makes it a lot easier to adjust and get Lurve if Fluther can find questions for you.
And sorry if somebody’s already said that.
Don’t immediately try to change this place to what you think it should be. People react badly to that.
Ask interesting questions, and make good responses.
Lurk and read old questions so that you know what makes for an interesting question or a good response.
When a new user shows up here, we have no sense of them as a person. They’re just a little picture and a name. That’s precious little to go on. You, as the new user, may know that you have positive things to contribute here and aren’t here to throw attitude around, but we don’t. That will only become clear to us once we’ve interacted a bit.
That makes the first few interactions really important, because we have no other context for knowing what you’re like. I can get away with occasionally being an asshole, because people already know I’m usually not. But it’s harder to overcome bad first impressions.
I think the answers above really sum it all up. The only thing I’d add is:
Don’t bring baggage, expectations, or comparisons from other sites with you to Fluther. That kind of thing could get old real fast.
I’m going to send this link to some people I’ve been talking to.
Thanks for the input everyone.
More input is welcome too!
Oh, and don’t use all caps for more than ONE or TWO words in a post. It’s unnecessary. Italics and bolds are far more appealing to everyone here.
Well I’m kinda laughing reading this. It seems that everyone wants a new user to do this and that to feel welcome. I think that is rubbish. Good nettiquette should be needed for sure. But geez this is online fun. People don’t want to, and come on lets get real, shouldn’t have to, go through 101 steps to be accepted into a new website.
I know the questions is what can they do. But I really think it should be a simple answer. Good netiquette. And that’s it. Just my two cents (and I apologize because it seems my opinion on this may be unpopular).
Having said that. I think I was welcomed pretty well. Thank you for that.
Lurk
Hold off on posting because fluther has specific ideas of what a “legit” question is versus a “social” question; I’ve been repeatedly told this is not a social site
Resist the urge to hijack another’s thread with off topic banter even though others may be doing it See Darwin’s comment below as an example.
Go into chatroom and ask site usage questions (lots of nice people and polite answers to be found there).
I lurve the ability to use bold, italics, and whispering in my comments. Yay, Fluther!
@RedPowerLady: It’s only a few things that Fluther specifically holds dear that we’re mentioning. You don’t have to do anything. But as a group we’ve pretty much defined our culture, and anyone who directly clashes with it won’t be welcomed as readily. It’s not that big a deal, it’s just pointing out the difference between hanging out in a parking lot with friends OMG LOL, and going to dinner where there’s a wine list Aha! Very entertaining!. Maybe that’s uppity of us, but we like the quality and tone we’ve set and maintained, and we really just want more of it. :)
What @asmonet said. (I was actually typing a very similar message, but I like the wording of yours better :D)
@asmonet @dynamicduo
I see your point. I’m the type of person who believes you should Welcome someone first. I think to say that someone who clashes against your culture won’t be welcomed as easily is a bit odd. I understand the point behind it and I certainly understand that certain actions are just not acceptable when joining a new group. But is it not better to welcome people who are different than you?
Of course all the basic tips are great. Like using the bold and whispers, not typing caps, don’t take things personally, try for good quality questions and answers, don’t come into a new website and try and change it etc… I’m just considering the user here
For example though: Do you not think it a bit silly to tell someone they need to lurk to be accepted? I mean how much extra time will that take out of their life? They are trying to have fun and enjoy themselves on a Q&A website.
@RedPowerLady I think it depends, when I first started here, Fluther was my first experience of a Q&A site, so I was super hesitant to ask questions, but I thoroughly enjoyed looking at all the questions. If you already have experienced this, then you are used to the whole process and it’s less intimidating. Yet, there is a culture to how you ask a question here, so it’s wise to read the guidelines and get a feel for the site before you jump in head first. So, lurking can be a good thing, but each to his own and I doubt if anyone will really remember your first few days after awhile regardless.
@RedPowerLady: I didn’t say easily I said readily.
I see a slight, but significant difference between the two.
They don’t need to lurk, that’s just a tip, one that’s useful in all internet communities. Lurking can be as long as a few weeks, or as short as half an hour. It’s just to get a feel for things.
If people are worried about how much time it’ll take to do something as simple as lurk and page through the archives, then they shouldn’t be on the website at all, as contributing to the website is going to take up WAY more of their time!
Lurking before posting is analogous to looking before leaping. I can’t think of any situation where I would actively advise someone to leap before looking.
Like I said. I knew my idea was going to be unpopular. But I do stand by it. I feel like people should be welcomed with open arms and gently guided. Not expected to know what is up (aside from reading the guidelines of course). Just my two cents.
Although I do understand your point of view and agree with many points. Just a slight difference perhaps.
Well then, feel free to be there with your arms open, ready to gently guide them :)
@RedPowerLady I think most people are welcomed and gently guided, I think you came around the time of the wis.dm group, maybe even from there, and it was an adjustment for everyone…the sheer numbers made the guiding a little less gentle.
@miasmom I am 100% new, like one week ago or less I joined, lol. I’ve been very welcomed, or so I feel anyhow. But I do have experience from Q&A websites.
In response to this question I am just thinking that asking someone to automatically fit into a culture is an odd thing to ask of someone.
It’s kind of like The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable with your Word
Don’t take anything Personally
Don’t make Assumptions
Always do your Best
People can seem harsh anywhere you go. If you want to stay, you will find the reasons
The only person who is making any sense at all in this thread is RedPowerLady.
@Ivan: Ah, but the question wasn’t about what WE should do to make THEM feel welcome. It was about what they should do so they feel more welcome. We were giving suggestions as to how to fit into the culture so that they are more likely to feel welcome here. We always welcome new users, but these are the things that they are mostly likely to run up against and be corrected about. If they start out knowing about them, they are less likely to get corrected, more likely to fit in, and accordingly, more likely to feel welcome.
This is one of those sites that’s damned to “peak” at about 50 regulars, and 100 more who drop by now and again.
It’s got an established culture of Christians and traditional wifey/mommmy/stand by your man things, allen_o was close but not all of them are post-menopausal…they just act like it.
We could of spared ourselves a lot of grief if we took Allen’s assessment to heart but we didn’t, what’s done is done. If you don’ like they way things are – change them.
As for getting know the old timers, I’d just as soon take a swimming tour of the local sewage system, it wouldn’t waste as much time and not nearly as disgusting.
Wow, @HarmonyAlexandria, tell us what you really think about old timers, Christians and wifey/mommies. How do you feel about the rest of us?
I thought there were rather a lot of atheists, free-thinkers and lesbians here, myself, but what do I know?
Guess not.
And that’s only the beginning of how wrong you are.
@HarmonyAlexandria swimming in your own words? you really are more talented than i gave you credit for.
Not everyone on the site is christian, or a wifey/momy/whatever thing… we just enjoy thoughtful questions.
What we don’t enjoy are people who insist on making everything personal and come here not to contribute but to bitch about every little thing.
People are welcome with open arms if they really want to be here.
Those who are here to spout hate, disrespect and distorted world views in a thinly veiled attempt at pseudo intellectualism used to hide one’s own prejudice and insecurity are not so well received.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic i personally like your questions and urge you to continue to contribute to the site.
wow…. i’m soooooo post-menopausal!!!
@HarmonyAlexandria: No one is holding a gun to your head. You can leave anytime you want. Hell, with those comments you just made, I bet if you asked real nice, Andrew and Ben would even delete your account! They don’t do that very much, it’s kind of an honor. Then maybe you could go swim in that sewage system you seem so keen to visit.
@Dr_C: Wow, me too and I’m only 20! I guess that means that we old timers aren’t going to breed anytime soon. But, wait, some of us already have… The horror!
And here I thought I had you both beat at 22. Though, Dr C wins…being a man and all.
@HarmonyAlexandria
Let me formulate my answer in a language you can understand:
oh well…screw it
I’d soooooooo love you standing in front of me saying that lol
@asmonet You realize there are tens of thousands of members here right?
How many of them are active vs. people who just passed though? The former is meaningless, or worse indicative of a real “business model” problem -the site can attract customers, but can’t keep them.
@HarmonyAlexandria
Maybe we should adopt the wis.dm model then? Oh wait, THEY’RE KAPUTT
this is ludicrous
@HarmonyAlexandria: What, you answer that but not the very real questions posed to you by my fellow jellies? Only proves to the world that you can’t backup your opinions.
Grow up.
Mmkay? Thx.
@HarmonyAlexandria this is your answer? really?
After all the creative rants you’ve inspired while alienating ethinicities and social groups of every kind imaginable… i’ve come to expect better rhetoric from you.
This kind of cop-out is not only disappointing… it lacks the entertainment value of your more “colorful” musings.
Has the time finally come where ignorance bathed in verbosity has come to end? I dared not dream of this day.
to be perfectly honest i’m saddened…. what ever will i laugh at now?
lol4rl. burn, dr c, burn.
Response moderated
@HarmonyAlexandria: I accept your business model idea but you are overlooking one thing. Fluther is very much like a business, we just aren’t selling what you’re looking for. We are like a bookshop, and you are that customer that wants to buy eggs. When we tell you we don’t sell eggs, you get angry and tell us that we should sell eggs. When we tell you that it would be ridiculous for us to sell eggs, you get violently angry and instead of leaving, just stay there, taking up space in our store, telling us that we should sell eggs.
Go buy your eggs somewhere else lady!
Response moderated
I am one of those mommy Christian types, but I’m a minority on here, you obviously haven’t taken the time to get to know us.
@miasmom: I completely agree with Kat. We love you. :)
@miasmom you are what’s great about fluther :) we totally Lurve you!
even if you are a momy/wifey/stand by your man thingy
You go miasmom! I lurve you!
I love you all too!
That’s what I like about Fluther, we don’t have to agree, but we respect each other as people, what a concept!
and we don’t stereotype
Response moderated
@HarmonyAlexandria
The tip of the sword should point INTO the direction of the abdomen, not AWAY from it.
I’d still so wish you’d say that to my face. But you strike me as the silent type IRL tho.
Response moderated
@HarmonyAlexandria I applaud your attempt at a jab. It was awesome.
I do love the fact that you assumed i’m christian (saddly a mistake) and that you have time on your side.. where as I @ 28 years of age (already a doctor too) am obviously running out of time and have one foot in the grave.
Time my dear is of the essence… and believe me when i say, your particular brand on neo-fascist hate mongering and missguided ideals backed by distorted world views will allow you all the time in the world… to wallow inself pity at having no possible way to achieve even a modicum of success in a world such as this.
But please… i beg you… keep it up. You really are very entertaining and are giving most of us AMAZING material.
BTW… i applaud your being so steadfast in your misguided beliefs… and hope honestly to be present at your first malpractice hearing… or hate crimes tribunal… whichever comes first.
btw.. suck my MD
@KatawaGrey , we just aren’t selling what you’re looking for
You have an ownership stake now? Do Ben and Andrew know? Ultimately it’s their decision, you and all your cronies are nobodies, nothing. Learn to deal with it as it’s just not my problem
Well, here’s was a good example of how not to fit in.
You should really understand the business model. I doubt if Ben and Andrew want thousands of users clogging up their site. They want quality discussions that will get indexed well on the search engines so that the thousands of people who do Google searches and wind up on the site click on an ad or two.
It is so ridiculous when people call themselves customers of Fluther just because they have a free account and like to spout their opinion.
@HarmonyAlexandria
Why is the dead body still typing?
Spitting in people’s food you say? Yeah, I’ve had you in the right category from the start it seems. Now come and repeat that in front of me :)
@TaoSan: Obviously no metal can pierce her hide…
@Dr_C where as I @ 28 years of age (already a doctor too)
Oh then I take it back, 28 yo MDs don’t have accomplishments yet
@HarmonyAlexandria
Your social awkwardness and incapability to properly express your angst are strangely fascinating…..
@HarmonyAlexandria you might want to do a little research on the people you insult before making statements about “accomplishments”... you my dear not only couldn’t lift my resume with both hands and a car jack…. you probably can’t read half of what’s in it.
But thank you… keep it up :) this really is fun. I relish your next verbal atrocity and will make it a point not to laugh too hard at the sound of you hanging yourself with your own rope. :)
@HarmonyAlexandria
You know, statistically speaking you should really have received at least one spectator-lurve by now…..
@KatawaGrey Go buy your eggs somewhere else lady!
Or we just take over this one darling, it’s one of the advantages of being part of an 80 people+ migration.
You dullards wanted war, now you have it.
Y’all are making me laugh too much, this is so amusing to me because HarmonyAlexandria just doesn’t have a clue.
@HarmonyAlexandria: Right, you’re just being idiotic now. No one invited you, you did not receive a gold embossed invitation to arrive, and we make lurve not war here. And, considering your numbers, I doubt you could ‘take us over’ anyway.
You’re no fucking Spartan, chica.
@HarmonyAlexandria THIS is war?
Once again you disappoint. A war of words? Really. I could understand if you wanted to compete at something you actually had a talent for but this? You still don’t get your role as comic relief? how can this be war when you’re viewed as no more than a plaything?
How can one hope to be serious when dealing with a petulant child?
Stick to spewing hate… you’re much better at it. Ignorance becomes you… fighting a war for which you are OBVIOUSLY unarmed… not so much.
For the record, I have fenced, practiced archery, I am quite skilled at throwing axes and knives and currently own a fucking armory of medieval weapons.
I got your war, right here, baby.
Bring it on. :)
@HarmonyAlexandria
First you proclaim to be all antisocial, now you seek strength in numbers LOL
You’re so __________ (insert here) haha
@Dr_C statements about “accomplishments”
Otay you have just given up your right to call me delusional. I know what I am, I’m a second year uni student. Unless you graduated med school at 20, the difference between you and I are a couple diplomas and maybe a year of experience.
Have you even finished your residence/specialization yet
And you miss punctuation.
[Mod says]: Flame off, folks. Get back to the question at hand, and try to ignore flame-bait.
“Ay me! for aught that I could ever read,
Could ever hear by tale or history,
The course of true love never did run smooth;
But either it was different in blood” Shakespeare
Let us all make Lurve not War
Mmkay.
Fun is over.
Apologies all around.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic I’m sorry your thread has been mutilated this way. You sir are more than welcome and a great addition to the community. :) Cheers.
May lurve be with you all
Response moderated
[mod says:] Like Andrew stated above, future quips should deal with answering the title Q and the rest needs to go to PMs. All future quips that are flame-bait/off topic will be removed.
Now that all of that silly hullabaloo is over,
I’m going to try to actually answer the question!
I think everyone has been answering:
What can new users do to fit in?
I’m going to knit-pick and say that’s different than:
What can new users do to feel welcome?
For the latter (and actual question), I’d say much of it is in your head. Just approach the situation as if you were welcome. Which you are. That kind of puts everyone at ease, which helps a great deal. Kind of does away with the whole you versus them mentality. Which perpetuates the issue.
As for the whole lurking issue, I’m going to have to agree with RedPowerLady. That just seems a bit silly. I don’t think either party really stands to benefit from new members mimicking established patterns of behavior. That’s stifling for the nubies. And downright boring for the regulars.
Unless your EQ is way below average, I’m sure everyone can figure out how to get along without taking notes. This is the internet, not study hall. Sheesh.
And that looking before you leap analogy? We’re not a pool of sharks. We don’t usually bite.
And when we do, we rarely break skin. Come on in. Just don’t piss in the pool.
I have no useful suggestions to add to this discussion because there are too many good answers already posted, except this:
If someone is new here and doesn’t feel welcome, please send me a PM and I’ll do my best to make you feel like a valued member of the Fluther collective. Have a nice day. =)
@The_Compassionate_Heretic – I hear ya. When I first joined, it wasn’t with the great Askville migration. It was actually before that, I had lurked, I didn’t start posting, to tell the truth, I felt lost. Marissa had introduced several of us in May of last year. I didn’t come back over – to participate, until August. It’s nice here, it does take some time getting used to the site.
The question thing comes, really, it does. Even now, I still don’t ask a lot, because they’ve either been asked a few times or mine is too broad. I have asked a handful and I always get sincere responses, people that really want to answer the questions, or help in some way. My advice, ask a moderator for help. If you have a question that aren’t are sure meets the guidelines, ask. They aren’t just there to say “no.” They are there to help.
@Bluefreedom just said something I was going to say. If you are looking to fit in and still feel lost, find me. I’m on and off, all day. I don’t mind helping, if I can. If I can’t, I’ll help you find someone that can help. If it’s just to meet new people, great! I am always up to meeting people.
Welcome to Fluther! I’m sorry if it’s been a bit of a bumpy ride, so far. Please, just reach out and let us know if you need some help! :)
It’s just growing pains. We’re all going to have to adjust.
To answer the question, and I don’t think the asker is guilty of this, I for one would prefer that if a new user is going to try and make an effort here, that they don’t then jump back to another site (wis.dm for example) and bash and trash fluther. I spent way too much time lurking over there yesterday (how in the world do you get anything done on such a sloooooow site?) and was disheartened by some of the opinions of fluther. Even some new members who seem to be trying hard here have said mean spirited or what we, here, would view as rude comments about fluther there.
That being said, we do have our defenders there, too.
I guess what I’m suggesting is, don’t bash fluther on wis.dm in an attempt at one last hurrah at solidarity.
wow, I was only gone for a few hours… Is it a full moon? Lurve lust?
The best way to feel welcome anywhere is to get to know other people and find things you like about them. Then most good people will reciprocate and find good things in you.
@EmpressPixie Yes, you are correct. I concede that point. However, I still think that a lot of what was being said (before this flame-war) by the fluther vets was fairly illogical.
@Ivan – Several of the “Fluther vets” are folks who migrated to Fluther from Askville successfully. Wouldn’t you think our perspective might have some bearing on the question? If Askvillers, accustomed to what is generally a completely unmoderated site, can adjust to a fairly thoroughly moderated site such as Fluther, then one would have to assume that at least some of us have some ideas about making oneself welcome to Fluther as a new user.
Personally, I stand by my method of lurking for a bit before jumping in with both feet, to avoid breaking the written and unwritten rules.
@Darwin: At the same time, the major problem we all had with Askville was the lack of moderation and then the ham-handed way they did it once they got off their butts about it. As opposed to the wis.dm folks who were quite content in their non-moderated state.
@EmpressPixie – Then perhaps those wis.dm folks who don’t like Fluther should go check out Askville? It could use some new blood and the moderation seems to have all but vanished once again.
@Darwin
I am not questioning the notion that your ideas would, in fact, be a good way to feel welcome in this community. I am questioning whether or not your ideas should be true.
@Ivan – If all the French suddenly decided to move to Minnesota, don’t you think it would work a lot more smoothly if they stopped to learn how things in Minnesota work first, instead of immediately storming the legislature to demand that everyone start speaking French?
There is a real difference between joining a site and invading it.
An invasion? Really?
Minnesotans would have to eventually accept their new French neighbors as friends if they were to move forward as a community.
@Darwin…yes. As I said, I am not questioning that what you said would in fact be best way to feel welcome. I am questioning whether or not that should be the case.
And for God sakes, no one is demanding anything. In your analogy, we (the French) would merely be asking for the right to continue speaking French. You (the Minnesotans) would be requiring that we speak English.
@Ivan – I think it should indeed be the case. You come to someone’s house, you don’t start dictating where the furniture goes as soon as you get there. First you stop to find out why it is arranged the way that it is. Then perhaps you make suggestions.
Every site is different. Fluther is a moderated site with specific rules about the types of questions that are acceptable. It has its own personality and culture. A wise person should stop and check things out a bit before simply moving in and starting to treat Fluther as if it were another site with different rules.
Is there no middle ground here?
@Darwin
I swear to God if I have to read the ‘don’t come into our house blah blah…’ analogy again…
Fluther is not a house.
@Ivan – No, it is a social construct but can be compared to a virtual house. Perhaps you see this phrase so often because you are ignoring the very real similarities between the two concepts.
I came to Fluther this past August from Askville, an essentially unmoderated site. I lurked for a bit to see how Fluther worked, what was considered acceptable and what wasn’t, I read the guidelines, and then I started communicating here. I have done fairly well here and enjoy it here, but I have also accepted Fluther as Fluther, not as another Askville. I have always felt welcome here. I can’t see why others don’t also if they are willing to do their homework.
All I am saying is very simply when you enter into a new group of people and you want to feel welcome it is the best idea to stop and look at what the rules are and try to follow them before starting to tell the folks you are intent on joining how what they are doing needs to be different to suit you.
Have you checked out Askville? You can ask just about anything you want over there. Well, except for pregnancy questions. Right now they have a glut of those.
@Darwin
Yes, I agree that the best way to feel welcome in a new community is to familiarize yourself with their customs, etc. I am questioning the legitimacy of that idea at its core. Ultimately, there are differences in opinion as to what makes a good site, a good community, etc. It would be irrational to simply presume that whatever institution that already exists is, by default, correct.
To use a stretching analogy. There are a bunch of rules as to what you are allowed to do when you meat the Queen of England. You are not allowed to touch her, turn your back to her, eat while she’s not eating, etc. Now, if I were to just jump straight into the royal palace, it would be wise of me to understand these rules and customs, absolutely. But that does not mean that those rules and customs aren’t completely and utterly stupid.
@Ivan – We are human beings. We are social creatures. We set guidelines of behavior whether at Buckingham Palace or online. If you want to feel welcome within a given social situation learn and follow the guidelines. If you want to be identified as an outsider, and a possibly unfriendly one at that, tell everyone their social guidelines are completely and utterly stupid. Or go find a place that has guidelines you like. Or even better, go start your own social construct with guidelines you like.
I may have missed something – I know that wis.dm is going defunct. But is there some requirement for wis.dmers to come to Fluther? Can’t they seek out other sites that are more similar to wis.dm if they wish?
I agree that it would be irrational to simply presume that whatever institution that already exists is, by default, correct. However it would be illogical to assume that that there is only one institution, or that all institutions have the same rules, or that just because you don’t like the rules that they are wrong.
Now, one of my personal rules is not to stay up after my personal bedtime. Since it has now reached that point, I am going to bed. My brother has a very different personal bedtime, so he would still be up for the next four hours. However, I am not him, and he is not me, and neither rule is stupid or incorrect. Just different, so good night.
@Ivan—Read it: Fluther is an internet home to some of us. A few former wis.dm-ers are making some of us feel uncomfortable in our own territory. And that sucks.
@Darwin
Perhaps I was unclear or misleading. I never really wanted to discuss the inherent validity of the customs. I only want to be able to have a discussion about whether or not certain Fluther rules, guidelines, customs, etc should be in place. Most on Fluther seem vehemently opposed to this concept. I am not so arrogant to believe that my ideas are, by default, absolutely correct. My only point is that we should not merely accept whatever is already in place without question.
@MacBean
Then why are you here? Maybe you should leave and find another site? Oh wait, that argument is awful, isn’t it?
@Ivan—Because I’m established here, and it’s a place I’ve been coming for nearly a year to have fun and have discussions with people I consider my friends. To be perfectly honest, I haven’t been coming as often lately. I’ve been waiting for people like you and HarmonyAlexandria and Halliburton_Shill to find your brains and leave. And since you continue to stick around and suck the fun out of Fluther, I’ve been honestly considering leaving. Because the argument isn’t awful.
@Ivan To put it in political terms, Fluther isn’t a democracy and has never presented itself as one; it’s a benevolent dictatorship. The users are free to offer input, but the owners of the site have the final say without appeal. If our input is rejected, all we can do is vote with our feet. Revolution isn’t an option.
Not that different from any store offering goods, really. If you don’t like the selection or the prices or the store policies, you can let the management know, It’s in the interests of the management to make the store attractive to a wide range of people, but the management will have other concerns as well, and in the end all the customers can do is decide whether they shop there or elsewhere. The owner is free to eject unruly customers from his property.
@Ivan: It seems as if the only reason you are still here is to say how much you hate being here and how stupid everything is here. An excellent way by which new users can feel welcome is to shut up long enough to realize that there is some good stuff on this site. we are a community. Just because it is online doesn’t mean you have the right to be rude. When you are in someone’s home, you follow the rules or you leave. As @MacBean said, this is like home for some of us. And, as @Harp said, we can’t kick you out,only Ben and Andrew can do that. Do you know why they don’t kick you and the other dissenters out? Because they are nice guys who are also willing to adjust to new people coming in. They shouldn’t have to adjust, you should. You are new here. You should learn that when you come into a different culture (because fluther does have it’s own culture) you can’t expect everyone to be flexible to what you want. You should be flexible to us.
@MacBean: I sincerely hope you don’t leave. I would miss you quite terribly.
@Darwin
Yes, I completely understand that this is the way it is. No one is questioning that. I am questioning whether nor that is how it should be.
@MacBean
Oh, so you have a vested interest in this site? You have a reason to hope that this site improves? Hmm, interesting.
@KatawaGrey
I don’t hate being here and I don’t think everything here is stupid. I recognize taht there is good stuff on Fluther and I recognize that it is a community. I don’t feel that encouraging open discourse is rude. Fluther is not a home, it is a service. If you are displeased with the service, you openly discuss your displeasure in the hopes that a comprise can be arrived at and the site can improve. Leaving would be irrational and illogical. I don’t expect everyone to be flexible to what I want. I expect people to be willing to have a discussion.
In response to the question, what makes anyone think they will ever feel welcome if they focus on the things that displease them? That just creates a negative mindset and, even with good intentions, that negative mindset will be reacted to by others.
@Ivan: What you’re failing to realize is that we were all new to the site at some point. We are getting new users all the time, not just in great big clomps like from wis.dm. People seem to adjust to us just fine. Near as I can tell fluther vets please correct me if I’m wrong wis.dmers are causing more trouble and having more issues than any of the individual new comers. Maybe it’s because there are a lot of you so you have a whole power in numbers thing going on. Maybe if you try doing it our way, instead of trying to change to your way or get rid of the parts you don’t like, you’ll be happier. There are a number of wis.dmers who have adjusted to fluther beautifully, such as RedPowerLady. Does that make any sense or is this not how discussions on wis.dm go?
@Ivan – You said: “I am questioning whether nor that is how it should be.”
And I am saying Yes, that is how it should be here on Fluther. If you don’t like it find another site closer to your own vision.
@KatawaGrey No one is trying to change Fluther for our own benefit. We merely want to have an open discussion, and you seem to be very resistant to that idea.
@Darwin The ‘Love it or leave it’ argument is illogical.
To build on my last statement, what makes anyone think they are being accepting if they focus on the things that displease them? That just creates a negative mindset and, even with good intentions, that negative mindset will be reacted to by others.
If Ivan wants to talk about what he doesn’t like, let him. Did anyone ever see that episode of Mad About You called The Conversation where they forced themselves to sit outside of their baby’s bedroom and let the kid cry without going in to respond?
Eventually everyone has to get over it and let other people cry if they want. It’s Ben and Andrew and the mods’ job to decide if what they are saying if outside the realm of acceptable.
Conversations about hurt feelings on both sides are tiring and just perpetuate the negativity. I think there’s enough intelligent adults that we can get by with the occasional flareup from an adolescent.
@jonsblond – yeah, really good stuff. That episode was particularly great because they filmed it like a play or like Rope with little to no cuts. But I’m only 34, so I guess it depends on what you consider old : )
@fireside and @jonsblond: I’m 20 and I used to watch Mad About You all the time. Neither of you are old, trust me. :)
@fireside I remember watching that show when my sons were in diapers, now they are in high school (I’m 38). It’s seems like ages ago.
@KatawaGrey Thanks! :D
@jonsblond: Wait, you’re 38? I thought you were a lot younger! You always came across to me as a woman in her twenties! ;)
@KatawaGrey I get carded for alcohol all the time, so I guess I look younger too. You just made my day! :)
To answer the question: Ask Gailcalled about Milo. Works every time. ;)
@jonsblond: I’m 22, I loved it. I still watch it. You’re young still. :)
Answer this question 
This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.
Composing members:
0
