Is just putting the word wis.dm in a question going to get it moderated?
Asked by
Kelly27 (
1501
)
April 11th, 2009
I ask this with all sincerity, because I think it is unrealistic to expect wis.dm to never come up seeing that there are quite a few of us here now.
To expect that we never even utter the word here seems a bit like telling me that if I move to the United States from Russia I can never mention Russia again in the presence of Americans without getting negative reactions or the “go back there if you hate it here” response.
So my question is, is the mention of wis.dm in a comment or question going to continually bring about negative reactions from people?
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215 Answers
Maybe people have a negative connotation, because some people from wis.dm came here whining for what seemed like forever. No one wants to hear about the closing of that site any more. But, mentioning the site in passing isn’t a problem, and I don’t see why it’d get modded.
As long as it’s a question that falls within the guidelines, you’ll be fine.
No putting wisdm in the question won’t automatically get it moderated.
Asking a question that doesn’t comply with the (pretty explicit) guidelines will.
OH MY GOD STOP WHINING!!! YOU DON“T HAVE TO STAY HERE!!! GO BACK TO WIS.DM!!!
@boots I thought it might have been. ;)
KANSAS!!!! I’m putting KANSAS in here! Because I’m from KANSAS!!!! (Am I going to get moderated?!)
@boots Good! I thought I was going to have to send Kelly to kick your butt!! :)
@Lightlyseared I understand that, but my understanding of the guidelines is that they are very flexible and open to interpretation, so depending on who is the moderator, it may or may not pass muster.
@casheroo I asked a question yesterday that mentioned wis.dm…and it went MIA. The question was simply that…it was interesting that the couple of alternate sites that some of the wis.dm members set up for us had an immediate and serious ban policy—it was telling because wis.dm seriously lacked that and it got awful sometimes. I was jumped on with both feet, and the question was killed. ??? Still don’t know why, except that some people were saying I should have put “blank” in place of wis.dm. WTH????
@Dutchess12 Did you ask about why your question was removed?
No, but constantly bringing up hurt feelings is a good way to make your opinion seem irrelevant. Nobody wants to listen to people complain all the time. I tend to avoid those people in real life, too.
@Dutchess12 – Did you get an email about the question? Did you PM the moderators and ask them about the issue?
@Kelly27 Just did…haven’t heard back yet.
@fireside I just did….haven’t heard back yet.
The question about “micheal and angel” clearly went against the community guidelines.
@fireside Also, my question had nothing whatsoever to do with “hurt feelings.” Of all the answers I got, two people saw the question for what it really was, and one of them said, “Hey—if anything she’s showing appreciation for the moderation we have here.” Which was the truth!
@The_Compassionate_Heretic Why? Why would mentioning Angel and Michale go against guidelines? They both have accounts here. Is it because they aren’t well known???
@Dutchess12 – I have no idea what question you are talking about.
@Kelly27 – Most of the questions I have seen involving wis.dm have been about hurt feelings and misunderstandings. It all depends on the context.
wow. People need to let the past go. The site failed. And you moved on.
I miss Homestead.com but you don’t hear my complaining.
Ok nevermind. I guess they still exist. Well it’s not the same as the 90’s lol
@willbrawn This is exactly what I am talking about, why the attitude? It is this kinda-sorta snarky response that is quite irritating.
I don’t really care if you talk about Homestead.com. Talking about another site does not equal complaining.
Fluther is not out to get you. FYI
Wisdm people really need to stop attaching their identities to a website.
Also Kelly27 fluther is not a country. It’s more like a night club and this night club has a dress code. Some night clubs won’t let in guests if they are wearing jeans and sneakers and it’s their right to do so if they choose.
Cause it seems like people are divinding themselves and labeling where they came from. This is not the 50’s people.
It does seem to be a bit like that guy who never gets over his old high school football days. Eventually, people get tired of hearing him talk about that great game where he scored two touchdowns.
People’s reactions to that differ, some ignore some get upset. But ultimately, it’s just sad for the dude who is stuck in the past and doesn’t understand why people don’t treat him the same as they did when he was captain of the football team.
No @Dutchess12
The guidelines clearly state that all caps are not welcome and your question specifically cited the personal behavior of 2 specific people which couldve been construed as inappropriate.
Would “Micheal and Angel” want you talking behind their backs anyway?
I hope not, wis.dm is a great community, fluther should embrace and welcome wisdom out of the box….
:D
my pleasure darlings..:D
@Dutchess12 – if it was as The_Compassionate_Heretic said, then it was probably removed because it was random personal gossip. That’s not the type of intelligent thoughtful discussions they are looking for on Fluther. MySpace and Facebook work great for gossip.
Oh, God, I hope so! I thought we were past this ws.dm shit!
Please stop!!!
Apparently not. This question has been up for quite a while without being moderated away.
This question may get moderated. It was basically trying to start a fight.
@willbrawn Well, is that any different than mentioning what country you come from? I mean, that’s what integration is all about. Yeah, we have immigrants from wis.dm, and for a time we’re going to hang with each other, just like any other group of immigrants…Little China, the “Italian sections”, the Asians in our neighborhood for the most part hang with other Asians from around town (man, they cook a mean barbque too! And they never fail to invite us)...it’s a total natural human reaction. However, given a little time all the immigrants eventually merge and blend, and I think it’s just awful to tell us that we can’t mention our “home,” the place we were displaced from. It doesn’t mean we don’t want to be here, or don’t like you guys….it just means we’re a little homesick, and some of the insensitivity shown here is really by SOME of the people is really…...sad.
@Mamradpivo You are right, the question is still here as is quite a bit of hostility. I just don’t understand why the mention of wis.dm causes such a reaction. I think a lot of people have bent over backwards to welcome us and on the flip side of that I think people are bending over backwards to fit in. People genuinely like each other and yet when I mention wis.dm it instantly gets a hostile and tense atmosphere.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic What are you talking about, all caps?? @fireside It wasn’t gossip at all. The question said, “Isn’t it telling that the alternate wis.dm websites that Michael and Angel set up for us had a ban policy from the git go….” How was that gossip? It wasn’t anything bad. And before it was killed, the moderators flagged me only saying that I needed to be more specific in the “more”....so I did…and they killed it anyway. It didn’t say anything about it being wrong to mention certain people, and it wasn’t random. The final sentence in the more said, “It’s like a kid being raised in a certain way, and the minute they get out on their own, they change the things that they didn’t like in their home….” I think it could have been interesting, but….it was viewed as hostile and I still don’t know why.
@Kelly27 Yeah…I see that too. But there are some really great, great level headed and kind people here. I’m starting to get a healthy mix of wis.dmrs and flutherites in my friends list!
Also, I would like to remind people that it’s only been a couple of weeks for us. It’s like….just get over it already? Just give us some time….be patient please. Also I really haven’t seen that many questions that disrespect fluther or their policies except a little here and there, mostly about the moderation and the kinds of questions that we’re allowed to ask. It’s all part of the process of getting to know your community…it’s a natural process, and I don’t understand why it’s so upsetting to some.
It’s not so much a mention of wis.dm. It’s the constant, continual, unabashed grief and remorse over another site that began with a vocal group immediately after the announcement that wis.dm was shutting down.
A great number of former wis.dmers don’t feel the need to constantly compare, contrast, and self-segregate. It’s an issue because it’s constantly made an issue.
It’s not at all like being an immigrant—except if you went to a party in New York and proceeded to tell everyone how great France is, and wouldn’t it be nice to go back go France? Why aren’t there more French people here? I want a croissant! What, you don’t HAVE croissants! That’s ridiculous! I miss Paris. Why are you looking at me funny! I LOVE FRANCE!
It’s not appropriate.
That’s what PMs are for.
My advice: wait another two weeks. Then, if you still feel a need to talk about another site you’ll see how much of a different reaction you get.
@andrew : Or, as we have recently learned: J’aime la France !
@gailcalled: “We”? Certainly you didn’t just learn it! ;)
@Dutchess12
I imagine it had more to do with the limiting nature of the question directed at individuals which got it banned. It limits the involvement of the collective.
@andrew Well….we loved wis.dm, but there are many aspects of this site that are better than wis.dm. I really, personally, haven’t seen that much bragging about wis.dm, as much as trying to figure out the differences between the two. I’ve never said wis.dm was so much better than fluther or anything along those lines. I’ve made comments on the differences—and they were just that—observations. But it’s like, just by making the observation it’s assumed that I’m dissing fluther, when I’m not!
What on earth is wis.dm and why are people ashamed of coming from there?
(I mean no offense to Kelly27 or any of the other wonderful immigrants from wis.dm we have here when I say this). We don’t have a problem with people mentioning wis.dm, or even reminiscing about their time there. We do have a problem with people using it as an excuse for rude behavior. The format of the site was different, so naturally there will be difficulties as people learn to change the manner in which they communicate. But your mother didn’t die, and a normal person is not reduced to an emotional state of grief by the loss of a website, especially when they are still in contact with most of their friends from that website. So there is no reason that people coming to Fluther en masse from wis.dm should not be able to adapt to the format, the style of moderation, and the culture just as well as everyone else did when they came here individually. Emotional grief is a pathetic excuse, and wis.dmers are not a sufficiently large percentage of the users here to be able to claim right of control. We have nothing against you as individuals; it is when you try to claim special rights as a group that we have an issue. And, a large portion of questions in which wis.dm is mentioned have been attempts to claim such rights.
Believe it or not, it is possible to adapt to new environments without causing issues for others or making the experience less enjoyable for yourself; you just need to let go of the place you came from, and stop feeding off of the resentment of your fellow immigrants. Otherwise you get a feedback loop of hostility. Most people here have grown immensely tired of this childish behavior- which is really only the fault of a few bad apples, and not of most people who come from wis.dm- and so may act disproportionately and inappropriately to an innocent attempt such as yours, @Kelly27. I think, for the sake of pragmatism at least, that it would be best to stear clear of the topic of wis.dm for a while, until everybody is able to act like normal, intelligent individuals rather than as members of opposing camps that, in reality, have absolutely no reason to be at odds.
@SeventhSense Well, it wasn’t directed to them….I haven’t even seen them here that much. They were just the ones who set up the websites, and yeah, I could have posted the Q without mentioning their names. It wouldn’t have made any difference to the substance of the question, but….I did mention their names.
@Dutchess12 – it sounds like it was a poorly thought out question. A better one would have been “Do you think websites, such as fluther or wis.dm should set up policies to prevent things from happening that seemed to have created an issue on other websites?”
Then in the details you could go into various policies, such as banning, moderation, etc.
That would have been worthy of a robust intelligent discussion about life on the internet and the inherent challenges that website owners face when deciding to create a company.
It just sounds like it was poorly thought out, too limited in focus and not likely to create much discussion the way it was presented.
That’s one of the main reasons that I answer 1000 times more questions than I ask. I would rather let people who have fully developed questions ask them and then join that conversation than waste my time asking questions for the whole group. Some people are better at formulating questions than others. Just because the option to ask questions is there doesn’t mean everyone has to use it all the time.
@Dutchess12 Of course. I see your point… and, in a sense, it is unfair that a certain vocal minority have caused tensions to be strained.
Like I said, give it a few weeks, things will settle down.
@fireside I see your point. One thing fluther has done for me is to really try to think about my questions before I ask them! And that’s a good thing. Except I suddenly have about 3 questions right now that I’d like to ask but I can’t. :(
@Dutchess12 – well, there’s always tomorrow. The added time will give you a chance to make sure you re-read your questions and develop them to create a robust discussion : )
@fireside I was reading through this entire thread thinking I was going to mention the phrasing of a question and you freaking beat me to it! Here’s my input anyway:
I’ve found that “loaded” questions don’t usually last long around here. It doesn’t matter whether it’s about wis.dm or not. I asked a question about jazz the other day and got modded. The question said something like, “Is there anyone else who doesn’t like jazz?” When I went back and reread it I realized how loaded it was and changed it to “What is it about jazz that is appealing to so many people?” Maybe not the best wording still, but it made the cut.
The thing I’ve figured out about Fluther and jellies is that we like to come to our own conclusions. We don’t like to be sort of coerced into taking sides on an issue. I see that you guys have already hashed this above, but I’m not deleting this answer dammit!
Anyway, like @fireside said, I would just think hard about the way your questions are worded and I’m willing to be the modding will go down for you!
I think this is a stupid battle. They complain, we defend. They complain, I hack there IP.
I win.
Hail the Jellies!
@essieness Also, “Is there anyone else who doesn’t like jazz?” looks for responses like “Me!” “I don’t” “Nope!” “I do!”, whereas “What is it about jazz that is appealing to so many people?” is a much better prompt.
@willbrawn I haven’t complained, and I still get hacked.
@willbrawn You win? Hail the jellies? I don’t think all the problems and tension lay with people coming from wis.dm….....
seriously. Just let it go. I try to enjoy talking with people here. Pull the stick out and relax.
This is not high school people.
@Kelly27 You know, I was just talking with someone, saying I kind of wish the shoe was on the other foot, just to see how wis.dmrs would handle such an influx…I said I would like to think we would have been more tolerance, but the truth is….it probably would have been just like here, because of the nature of humans. You and I and many others would have been welcoming, but there are others who would have been defensive and insulting (not naming names here!!) because that’s just the kind of people that they are (btw, I just received my first apology from someone who saw the evil question last night, and who had misunderstood it, and she added me to her fluther. Now that’s what I’m talkin’ about! :)
Think squidoo
A number of people from squidoo.com went to wisdm and the reaction was negative.
Some squidoo users were blatantly spamming the site but there were many who were just trying out a new site and were made to feel unwelcome.
As a result all the squidoo users left. So therhe shoe has indeed been on the other foot.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic Gosh…I never knew that. I apologize for their behavior. I would have done or said some to help if I had known. But that’s exactly my point. People are people.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic Can you tell me when this was so I can maybe go see for myself? (If I can get on the damn wis.dm website! Grrrr!)
Are you absolutely sure that account is a flutherite and not a disgruntled wisdm user posing as a flutherite?
I miss 90’s_Kid and you don’t hear me complaining…
I kid, I kid
@essieness I didn’t know you were, but thanks for letting us know.
@Kelly27 – anyone who answers a question is automatically following. That was her way of saying that the conversation has left the realm of relevance and has become spam in her Responses section.
@Kelly27 @fireside yeah, I kinda saw the insult in the comment…sorry Kelly!! I’m still here!
@fireside I understood her intent and followed with the same :)
@Dutchess12 You caught that too? It was so subtle I didn’t think anyone else had. ;)
Her avatar kind of seems to be rolling her eyes too : )
oh, well now we’re spamming about the spamming, there’s just no winning sometimes
@fireside LOL! Yep! Everyone’s the same everywhere you go!!
@Kelly27, @Dutchess12, and @fireside Well, I just had to pop back in and gee whiz, you guys went at it after my comment! It wasn’t a personal attack on anyone. In fact, @fireside‘s comment about this thread leaving the realm of relevance was dead on. For the record, not everyone is out to get the wis.dmrs or anyone in particular. There seems to be an air of sensitivity and defensiveness coming over from that group, but that’s just my perception.
By the way, @Kelly27 and @Dutchess12, when you’ve left a response and feel you have something to add, the way to do that is to go back and edit that response while you have the opportunity. There’s usually no need to write response after response and fill our “activity for you” boxes when you can simply edit. They give you several minutes to do so :)
Ok, stopping following again.
@essieness Got it…thanks! Didn’t think about it filling your activities box.
I guess the reason we commented on what you said was….because it didn’t really need to be said. What was the point of letting everyone know you weren’t going to follow the question anymore?
@Dutchess12 “anyone who answers a question is automatically following. That was her way of saying that the conversation has left the realm of relevance and has become spam in her Responses section.”
@essieness – I think your avatar is cute. I was just messin’ : )
@essieness Please don’t tell me that you left that comment and “just happened” to come back here, you left that comment for a reason.
I am sorry that you feel I leave too many comments on my question, I guess it would be appropriate if you did stop following the question and that would solve the problem. :)
@Kelly27 Ok, you’re proving to us now that you’re just trying to start a fight.
@essieness I understood what she was saying, but why did you have to make a point of saying that you weren’t going to follow the question any more? I see above that you’re accusing Kelly of starting a fight, but what you did wasn’t very nice either. It was like a “Talk to the hand” kind of comment….?
@essieness Really? You made a point to tell me that you felt my question was a bother to you, I say something and I am picking a fight with you? Please do as you felt the need to announce and stop following this question. THanks :)
@Dutchess12 Maybe so. This wis.dm banter has gotten tediously old and I think I speak for just about everyone when I say “We’re over it.” That’s why I made the comment.
Nobody is interested in listening to anyone whine about wis.dm anymore. We don’t want to listen to you whine about getting modded. Questions like this are not only redundant, but they take up space. While this particular question started out with good intentions, it quickly turned into a wis.dm vs Fluther scenario all over again.
MOVE ON.
@Kelly27 Does that clear it up?
I have to agree that something that some of the new people haven’t yet picked up on is the way their posts can seem inconsiderate when they post multiple times before someone else even responds. Or when they post a response to each person separately.
It seems a bit narcissistic to me in that you just like seeing your avatar show up over and over on the thread. But I know it isn’t just the new people who do this, so whatever. Just my two cents.
Now ladies, if you need me to separate you, I will. Each of you into your bedrooms, I’ll be there shortly : )
@essieness I haven’t whined about anything….I’ve had questions, but that’s not the same thing….Kelly’s point is, the problem is on BOTH sides. I posted a perfectly harmless question that happened to mention wis.dm, and was actually a comment on one of the things we didn’t like about wis.dm….and got trashed for no reason! The gist of the question was, when you’re the one in charge, do you incorporate changes to avoid things that you didn’t like from where you came from originally? I not only got trashed by all but two people, the question was actually deleted by the moderators, and the only reason I can think of is because it mentioned wis.dm. I’ve had critiques on it since then, and I understand that I probably could have worded it better, but it wasn’t THAT bad of a question! It just mentioned wis.dm. Hence, Kelly’s question. As I said, the problem is on both sides. I’ve seen more intolerance and insensitivity on the part of some Flutherites than I’ve seen whining on the part of wis.dmrs….we’re just trying to get used to the site and the rules and all of that. Really, some understanding and kind help (which I HAVE gotten from many flutherites) would go a long ways to ending the issue. Doing the kind of things you did, and saying the kind of things you do just fans the flames of misunderstanding and frustration.
@fireside… she mentioned that issue of filling up people’s inbox! Sorry, I won’t do it any more. On wis.dm, see, if you responded directly to a person it came up in their personal inbox. Only if you marked a question as being followed would all of the separate comments show up in your “following” box…and we hardly ever followed one particular question because of the feature that let us know that someone was talking to us. I DON’T WANNA GO TO MY ROOM!!! LOL!! I just saw the part where you said maybe we just like seeing our avatars show up over and over!! LOL! Yes, I have mine posted all over the house! (PS, if I hadn’t known better, BTW, I would have posted this as a second post. My avatar is so hot!! ;)
I guess not. Yours wasn’t.
@Zen “So my question is, is the mention of wis.dm in a comment or question going to continually bring about negative reactions from people?”
Blech. This is going in circles.
@Kelly27 Probably. I would just avoid asking them if it were me.
@Dutchess12 I guess my point then (and this goes to @Kelly 27 too) is why bother bringing up wis.dm over and over and over if you know it’s going to bring negative responses from the jellies and the mods? Why bother?? Is it that difficult to stick to asking questions about things not related to wis.dm and modding? I just really see no point in rehashing it time and time again. The mods have taken the time and effort to rework the guidelines for you guys. There have been countless threads about this crap. I just don’t see how it could still possibly be confusing. I really don’t.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic You wrote (about a mile up):
Wisdm people really need to stop attaching their identities to a website.
Also @Kelly27 fluther is not a country. It’s more like a night club and this night club has a dress code. Some night clubs won’t let in guests if they are wearing jeans and sneakers and it’s their right to do so if they choose.
Excellent. Let me say this again – excellent!
@Dutchess12 – Not really a big deal about the multiple responses, just something I have been noticing. A good way to test it is to go back and scroll through some threads. If the face doesn’t seem to change for a while, then there were probably too many posts in too short a time period. that said, I think andrew mentioned in the last jelly-table that he was working on a way to direct responses to a user.
Also, I would say that your thread you mention about being removed may have been removed simply because it degenerated into nothing but trash talking, not because of the question itself.
@Kelly27 – I think that what andrew suggested earlier about just giving it a few weeks for the wounds to heal is probably best. You can see that the heated responses have diminished, especially since the first week. Rather than picking at the scabs, just let them heal.
@fireside “I would say that your thread you mention about being removed may have been removed simply because it degenerated into nothing but trash talking, not because of the question itself.”
You hit the nail on the head. That’s pretty much what happened with this thread too.
@fireside You’re right, giving anything time usually helps.
As far as my replies I don’t think that I replied to often. I guess I could wait a half hour or so to wait for a few things to pile up that I want to reply to and then reply.
@fireside Exactly. Time heals all wounds. I just can’t believe that some people just want to say, “Get over it NOW!!” I mean, gosh, I’ve seen what Fluther means to some of you guys. People say, “I can’t remember what life was like before Fluther,” and things like that, and I know exactly what they mean and how they feel. Would anyone here just go “Oh shucky darn! Oh well!” if Fluther just shut down? I was really suprised at the intensity of my own feelings when the word came down because it is, after all, ‘just’ a website. But it was so much more than that. It’s what Fluther is to you guys….
@essieness Yes, it did, but because of the Flutherites. Yes, it degenerated into trash talk for absolutely no reason. There was nothing the least bit antagonistic about the question!
@Dutchess12 – I can almost guarantee that I would not say, “Oh shucky darn” : )
Regardless of the reason
Is it bad that the only thing I garnered from this entire discussion is that certain people with a pink flower avatar and ‘72’ in their username have bitterness issues? I’ve never seen such constant and frequent bitchy comments in all my life. Please, please stop spoiling such a nice site with such catty nonsense. It’s not welcome here.
@benseven It is a bleeding heart. Yes, it is a bad thing if that is all you have taken from this entire discussion, but that is just my opinion. Take from it what you want, I am not going to pretend to be anything other than what I am. You can call me bitter, I’m not, but it is really all subjective isn’t it? If I am not welcome here feel free to tell me to leave
Ding ding ding! And in this corner…
@Dutchess12 It’s a little gooey and slimy, but warm and fun. ;)
@dutchess12 depends how you do it
@benseven Have you looked at her other questions? They aren’t at all bitter. And in her defense, she sort of posted this question in my defense. You see what you see. Everybody sees what they want to see. What I see is some pretty fruitful discussion happening—I feel like we’re working through some misunderstandings and misapprehensions. For example, on this thread I learned that it isn’t a good thing to post a reply to a bunch of different people….I flat didn’t realize that it was viewed as rude…and narcissistic! Whereas it was no where near anything like that on wis.dm—so it’s been a pretty good discussion from where I sit….
@lightlyseared OH NO!!!
Time check: It has now been 3 hours and 40 minutes.
Marathon argument.
@essieness LOL!! Truly sounds…interesting! I gotta go bake some cookies or something now!
We don’t really mind questions that involve wis.dm so much as we are so freaking tired of hearing people complain about how Fluther isn’t as good.
@mangeons Well, it’s different. Actually, it’s a lot more like the original wis.dm that we fell so madly in love with, before they made all the different scenes and changes, that we never did come to like. The old wis.dm was just like this one mad party in one huge room like this is! It was so much fun! This just takes some getting used to. The only thing I would wish back is the ability to post pictures directly into the comments….we’d tell whole stories just with pictures. They just added another dimension to the site and that was so much fun. But…we’ll get over it. Just give us time.
@Dutchess12 Picture sharing would be fun, I agree. I guess we just old school it with links.
@essieness Ya…but o well! You know, another way this is like the better and original wis.dm, everybody is sharing technical information with everybody else on how to do things here….we used to do that on wis.dm—I learned SO MUCH from them—but then wis.dm incorporated all of the stuff we did long hand (like changing font type, color and sizes, bolding, etc.) into buttons you just click on. It was nice but….not so much fun as learning how it all works from the geeks.
Andrew mentioned that he was looking for ideas on community building types of things like Photo contests or Photo sharing. They probably wouldn’t be hosted on Fluther, but could be linked in much the same way we do now.
If it was in a “Community” section that was dedicated to pictures there would be no complaints about using the question feature for just posting links to images.
During the last jelly-table, he said that people should PM him with any ideas. I haven’t sat down to think about it yet though a “dress up Dr J contest comes to mind, but I’m sure that invitation is open to anyone.
Edit: here’s my first submission for the dress up Dr J contest
@fireside The dress code isn’t uniformly enforced. Some people are turned away at the door while others are allowed in wearing the same thing. We are told that certain questions, “Don’t meet Fluther standards” But questions like this do? Or this one?
@Dutchess12, the reason Andrew said that he was opposed to being able to directly post pictures in is because Fluther is very quick as it is, and it would greatly slow the system down to have a bunch of pictures everywhere.
The mods aren’t perfect, you know. They aren’t even paid for their work, and there are fewer than a dozen of them, so you can’t expect them to catch everything and to be perfectly evenhanded in their treatment; it would not even be fair to expect them not to have favorites, because they were and are regular users of the site who have developed relationships with other members.
I could put it more harshly, like if you don’t like the house rules then pack up and leave, but I welcome most of the other Wis.dm folk who have actually managed to integrate instead of retaining such a primitive ‘us and them’ mentality. If you’re being moderated more harshly, it’s probably because you’re not following the Fluther guidelines, as is the case with a lot of newbies. And I hope it’s a bleeding heart was sarcasm, because if not you really need to be seeking out some relationships in the real world post haste.
And I’d like to point out that incoming wis.dmers aren’t the only ones who get modded, both newbies and long-time members alike get modded.
@benseven- the “pink flower avatar” is a bleeding heart
@benseven You seriously just had me laughing at you, bleeding heart is the flower you were referring to in my avatar.
Also, I have no problem with any moderating of me personally as it has only happened once, so I must be following the rules a little.
@Jayne Thank you for the great post the one you posted way up there I have found that to be one of the better posts of the entire thread.
@Kelly27; You’re welcome, and thank you in return for both the compliment and for what has been an unusually civil thread sad as that may be for the topic.
Incidentally, I recognize that the immigrants from wis.dm have been separated from one another not only by their dilution among the members of Fluther, but also by the format of the site that prevents people from contacting others as a group; sending private comments to people is an inadequate substitute if you want to maintain a common bond, and the loss of this bond is, I suppose, a legitimate source of lasting discomfort. The loss of a site should not cause emotional distress for any extended period, and the loss of your friends, which would be by far the most understandable source of grief, has not really occurred. But it is true that we on Fluther do feel a sense of solidarity against the mass of the internet, and it would be a blow to our pride if we were forced to abandon that solidarity; there is no reason that should not be the same for wis.dm.
On the other hand, having recognized this, and allowing the time to adapt, wis.dmers should stop trying to maintain that bond, because on a practical level there is no basis for it, and everybody would be much happier if, instead of trying to maintain an identity as ‘the people from wis.dm’, they just treated each other as friends, among the other friends they find among the indigent jellies. Perhaps it is a good thing that the site makes it so hard to create conversations for all wis.dmers alone, and no one else; it forces them to interact with us as much as with each other, atomizes us so that we can join together again. The only thing you have to let go of is your collective pride, and we have another nice big pride all waxed and ready for you.
@Jayne I know what you mean. The wis.dmers were trying to band together as a group, which is preventing them from melting into the community, making them a lot more of a group of “outsiders”. Some of them, that is. ;)
@Jayne You bring up a good point, Jayne. Once upon a time wis.dm was just like fluther is now…then they went and made a whole bunch of different scenes and other features which had the result of….. separating us from each other. We never did come to like it, and I think it’s one of the big reasons wis crashed. We’ll never forget it though, and the friends we made, the things we learned, the times that we literally laughed out loud—and the times we cried. Babies were born, people were married, people poured out their souls, people and family members died, relationships were formed and relationships broke up, and we helped each other through. In so many ways we will always be from the “old country.” Somebody said it’s NOT like immigrating from another country—but I disagree. I find comfort in seeing a wis.dmr here, because I know exactly what I can and can’t do or say. When I’m dealing with flutherites I’m always afraid of accidentally stepping into it, or somehow insulting some one inadvertently. But, above all, I’m very glad ya’ll were here to field us. :)
It’s just another topic, the same as “Apple”, “books”, or “animals”...some will be interested and some will not.
@essieness Its seems to have died down from the volatile state we saw earlier this morning.
Wisdm traditinally was a place where people would use questions as a chat room.
However Fluther has an actual chat room. I think the chat room is being underutilized.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic; You couldn’t be more wrong, the live commenting on Fluther makes it much more “chat room-ish” than wis.dm ever was.
@J0E; yes, but you have to stay relatively on topic, and you cannot post a comment with no other purpose but to socialize.
@Jayne Yes that’s where I’m coming from.
@Jayne Thats what they are perceived to be, but they aren’t trying to be like that.
And who is “they”?
They are coming. You cannot hide. Run. soi soi soi soi
This really just goes back to the whole over answering thing and the idea of relevance. People who feel the need to respond to everyone individually, or people who just like to throw in inflammatory comment, seem to be misusing the system.
Try to think about it from an outside perspective. Someone comes here after doing a Google search and finds a thread on some specific topic but they have to wade through all the nonsense posts that are basically meaningless to the question at hand. There was just one I saw on health and dieting that had to be modded because the useful answers of figbash, Dutchess12, essieness and others were lost amidst the garbage.
I think ben and andrew are working on a way to separate questions out into ones that can be more social and ones that beg for a specific answer. Let’s see how that plays out.
@fireside Again, the idea of responding individually was based on how wis.dm was set up—responding individually worked best on wis.dm. It doesn’t work here, and now I know and I understand why. I’ve adjusted and so will the others when they understand that it doesn’t work that way here.
The most ironic part of all of this is….Kelly snarked on us a once because often some questions would just fly into nonsense! We were having fun, just 3 or 4 or us, but we were light years off topic! She said, she’d see a question that had 100 responses and thought mebee she’d found something worth looking at, and it would be just a couple of us screwing around!!! LOL!!! Remember that? :) ((((hugs Kelly!!)))
@Dutchess12 What do you mean by “responding individually”? And how is it any different on here than…over there…
@fireside From my experience, it was considered rude to post a question and not make the attempt to answer specific comments. I am bad about it and maybe that’s why I haven’t caught any flak for the most part, there are no narcissistic intentions behind it.
It’s a subjective thing, and I’m sure there are examples of me doing it.
But posting responses to everyone who answers is probably a good indicator that the question was more social in nature. Maybe just wait an hour and then post a response to each person by only using a single post. Some people get tired of seeing the same person for every other response. Sort of monopolizing.
@fireside Responding to comments is bad? what?
@joe because on wis.dm it was considered good manners to respond to each person individually, because it would come up on their personal inbox. However, here when you make a comment in a Q, you have automatically “favorited” it and are “following” it….so, like, yesterday I cut and pasted the same response to about 4 people…not realizing that each of those 4 people were going to be flagged 4 times because they were already active in the Q! Do you see what I’m saying? It’s overkill here….
@fgs Oh heck. I’m narcissistic! Wouldn’t you be with an avatar like mine? You want to borrow it? :)
@fireside Yes, wis.dm was very, very, very social….which was sometimes good, sometimes bad.
@fireside Like a great many question here, much is left to interpretation. They are neither good nor bad just a smattering of some people’s thoughts. I think the real gist lies in the fact that there is no real “standard” (sorry if I use that…I’m in the Army and standards are what run the military) The feelings of one can override the intentions of any given question. The standards are not maintained equally across the board. I try not to bitch too much but it has happened to me on more than one occasion.
@joe….see below….I was a talkin to you but answered to replies as they popped up while I was composing that reply…I think that’s one way to show consideration here…am I on the right track @fireside?
@Dutchess12 I think it is necessary to address specific people so others know who you are responding to.
@fgs Yes…I noticed the discrepancy but…well, just like on wis.dm, “older” users get more slack than the newer ones….
@joe that’s what the @thing is for, I think…and you can use it as much as you need to for different people in a reply. And I feel so super-cool because I know what FGS stands for!!! LOL!! @fgs :)
@Dutchess12 True dat….For sure I would have expected more leeway for a question than a new user. I can understand their stance to be honest.
@fgs I appreciate a lot of things about this site. It’s just a matter of…sorting out the good eggs from the bad. We could almost do a xxxxflutherite=shellanswerman thing, you know?
@J0E I was unaware that responding to people individually was not the thing to do either. I always felt I was being rude by not acknowledging everyone but I guess not. :)
@Dutchess12 – good explanation
@J0E – you can still respond to multiple people without taking up multiple threads
@FGS – Military aside, everything in interpersonal communications is subjective. Some people think that it is rude not to look at them when you talk, some people think that close talkers are violating their personal space… It’s all a balancing act and the moderation team is volunteer and not on scheduled shifts, so that may create the impression of lacking standards, but it seemed fairly clear before a few weeks ago. Let’s give it a few more weeks.
@Kelly27 – You don’t have to ignore everyone, but the point is that taking up every post seems a bit much, for me at least.
@fireside Hence, that’s why I do my best to keep my comments to myself and try to play within the parameters of the given playing field.
No, but it apparently will get you a lot of responses!
I think what bothers Fluther so much about wis.dm is that wis.dm allowed close personal relationships to develop and freedom of speech. These things are politically incorrect in most of the world. They would rather wallow in their misery than stick their necks out and become complete human beings. We morn wis.dm because it made us more than we were before and now it is very hard to find anyplace where we can relate as closely.
@walterallenhaxton- No. Fluther was never bothered by ws.dm. Fluther is bothered by the constant whining and comparison and all of those wanting Fluther to be wis.dm. Well, it’s not wis.dm, nor will it ever be. It’s like this sick obsession with some of you; to make Fluther something it’s not.
I’m sorry your old site is gone. I know that I’d miss Fluther tremendously if it shut down. But GET OVER IT! Please!
I think that any any time we are examining what should and should not be allowed to be discussed, we are making a huge mistake.
My “offense” did not occur in a question or even in a comment. No, people got angry with me because I was talking about wis.dm in the chat room. I’ve never had a question moderated; I have had one comment (to my knowledge) moderated, and that was not about wis.dm. In fact, now that I think about it, I don’t think I’ve talked about wis.dm much at all on Fluther itself. Instead, I decided to talk about wis.dm on third-party chat room. A chat room that was, presumably, set up for informal communication that would be frowned upon in a Fluther thread. This was my “crime.” This is what has earned me the label as the “vocal minority” of “disgruntled” wis.dm members who “never stop complaining” about how I want to “turn Fluther into wis.dm.” In reality, I have followed Fluther’s guidelines, refrained from expressing my displeasure with most of the site’s features that I am not fond with, and I have certainly never expressed the notion that Fluther should change to become similar to wis.dm. In fact, I have largely refrained from talking about wis.dm and Fluther specifically. I have, instead, taken it upon myself to tackle the prevailing attitude among Fluther members that Fluther should not be questioned at all and that the will of the owners should be accepted without hesitation. This has, in my opinion, gathered more negative responses from the Fluther vets than any other issue.
It’s been 24 hours. Why is this still going on?
It’s not wisdm that is bothersome. It’s the passive aggression and constant infighting that gets old. This was really tired when it routinely happened at wisdm and it’s real tired now on fluther.
“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.” It’s Easter Sunday, my friends, and although not all Flutherites might celebrate the event, maybe we all need a break from this discussion. “Time will heal a broken heart, just like time will heal his broken arms and legs.”
@The_Compassionate_Heretic I don’t see fighting so much as discussing and issue that is bothering all of us…and the best way to come to understanding is to have a real discussion to let our feelings out. The occasional pokes and random insults and yelling serve only to force our feelings underground instead of resolving them. If nothing else on this thread we finally feel like it’s OK to say how we really feel…and basically it’s that, yes, we sorely miss wis.dm. Really, if you don’t want to hear about it, quit following the thread so we can finish talking it out. You know, if something close to you dies I think it’s terribly rude for someone to just start yelling GET OVER IT ALREADY just because your feelings are an inconvenience for them. I for one am glad Kelly started this thread…I feel like I’m able to talk for the first time.
@mattbrowne Yes, time will heal the wounds….and the more we’re forced to keep our wounds hidden the longer it will take….it’s coming. I can feel it. Wis.dm, for me, is gone. It’s fading behind me but the memories still linger….
HAPPY EASTER TO YOU MATT!!!—and everyone else!!
@Dutchess12: You might want to consider not answering 40+ different times for the same question. Perhaps consolidate some of your responses, as is customary here. Or else, chat privately with PMs or chat room. My reaction has nothing to do with your original Q & A site.
@gailcalled Yes, I learned that, in this thread, actually! As I said above, on wis.dm it was considered considerate to respond to each person individually—not so here, and now I understand why. I fact, I ‘splained it to JOE and FGS above…any and all suggestions area appreciated.
No @Dutchess12, it’s the same old thing. This isn’t the gazebo and incessant talk about grog, shell or other of your ex compatriots don’t fit the mold anymore.
People continue saying the same thing over and over and over which is exactly why this question is still going on.
Sure wismd was a good experience for you but you need to understand that this is not wisdm and if that requires you to change the way you post then you need to do that.
The old ways are gone and you need to adapt to the change. It’s not up to fluther to pander to peoples whims.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic We know it’s not wis.dm. We’re not trying to make it be wis.dm. And I HAVE changed the way I post questions and replies. And we ARE adapting to the changes.
I think the only reason this question keeps coming back around is because other people see the thread for the first time and post. It seems to have helped Dutchess12, at least, to resolve some confusion about the atmosphere.
@Ivan; I’m pretty sure your “crime” was calling the moderators Nazis in the chat room, not talking about wis.dm. But, ya know, same diff.
@fireside Thank you. That’s what I see too! I mean, I’ve learned a lot of things here and I feel like maybe the air got cleared a little.
@Ivan You called ‘em Nazi’s??!!! You’re a bad, bad galaxy!!
@The_Compassionate_Heretic BTW—you lost me on this one: “incessant talk about grog, shell or other of your ex compatriots don’t fit the mold anymore.” What do you mean? I haven’t said much about our friends (and not so friends) there…
@Jayne
I think people have latched onto that and cited it as an example when they have nothing else to cite. The comment was made in jest, as I have explained to multiple moderators. But even if it weren’t, someone would have to explain the harm of it to me.
Too much off-topic blither or blather belongs in the chat room or in PMs. I do repeat myself, don’t I?
@fireside Ivan was the very first avatar I saw that signaled wis.dm—it was at the bottom of cnn.com or something, and his avatar piqued my interest. So I checked and walaa!! Couple of the best years of my life jumped in my face!! BTW, his is a galaxy called the “Sombrero Galaxy” I hadda research it!
sorry, this is Jayne, forgetting to sign out of Harp’s account
* Ahem * As I was saying, @Ivan; I seem to remember that the rest of your input, and that of some other members, was similarly belligerent; but I can’t find the transcript of the conversation, and it is possible I am misremembering, so you deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Just curious, why does it matter that this discussion is still goig on? Who does it hurt? The longer a question is active, the better it is…
@J0E: This is no longer a discussion. It is silly yackety-yack that belongs in the chat shack, expressly designed for that purpose
The Italians who came to America adapted to change. They were very glad to have a chance to implement their American dream. But they also brought pizza to America. Was this a threat to the hamburgers and hot dogs? I don’t think so. So what did the pizza do? It made America a little more diverse, a little more colorful. People who had never had pizza before probably first thought it looked strange and tasted even stranger. Some people (maybe with puritan roots) never tried the pizza and remained suspicious about the cheerful nature of Italian catholics, while others said, hey, when can I get lasagna too? What do they all have in common? They all want good food safety regulations. For that you need organizations like the FDA. And when it comes to “food” for thought? You need experienced users like @gailcalled reminding newcomers politely that sushi gets served in the chat room.
@gailcalled But who does it hurt? Those who want to talk will keep following, those who don’t will unfollow it and move on…right?
@Joe: There is a reason for the PM and chat room modalities. Guess why? (Is there an echo in as, as mattbrowne suggest?)
@gailcalled
There is a difference between not understanding the rules and disagreeing with the rules.
If you want to come to this private party, ya gotta abide. Challenge rules with PMs to Ben and Andrew or in the special chat rooms designed just for that purpose. If you came to dinner at my house and smoked, I would not discuss it. Out ya’d go.
(But you know this already. Repetition gets really boring.)
It most certainly does. Love it or leave it, love it or leave it, love it or leave it…
@gailcalled Maybe if you’d answer my questions you wouldn’t keep repeating yourself.
@J0E – It’s a matter of perception I think. Are we talking about sushi or smoking cigarettes? You might say, hey, why can’t I have my sushi here? Well, there are certain health risks related to sushi. Uncooked seafood sometimes carries bacteria or might even lead to parasitic infections. Now, your point is, if I don’t eat sushi I won’t get sick. Others might argue that by just looking at sushi will give them a sick feeling. Or maybe there’s some other reason to keep the restaurant sushi-free. But there’s a friendly sign with an arrow pointing left. Here’s the chat room and you can have all the sushi you want.
Now you have several options: You disagree with the rules and found a “pro-sushi” movement trying to change the minds of the restaurant owners or you visit a different restaurant or you open your own restaurant.
I think the problem some Flutherites have is that many followers of the “pro-sushi” movement enter their main restaurant wielding their placards and distributing leaflets. And they are tired of it, like @gailcalled. They have repeatedly told the movement to visit the managers’ office in the back of restaurant to exercise their freedom of speech and distribute the leaflets there. Translated to Fluther-speak, it’s called a PM. I think this is what this is about.
And by the way, there’s another option as well. It’s a blog about the guidelines. I made use of it several times already.
http://blog.fluther.com/blog/2009/04/06/more-policy-tweaks-and-new-jellytable/
This is just plain stupid. You can’t even have a conversation without someone popping in and telling you to read the guidelines or to go talk somewhere else. It’s pretty ridiculous for a site not to want activity…but whatever.
@J0E – “The longer a question is active, the better it is…”
The better it is for whom? For the company, for the database host, for the people who like to chit-chat? There’s plenty of activity on the site, but it is not meant for idle chatter.
Guess it just depends on your perspective.
In my perspective anything that gets people talking is a good thing, but it’s not my site.
By Joe, you’ve got it! I knew that you would get it and indeed you did.
@J0E – You see, sometimes I’m struggling a little too. A few people don’t like diversity. Despite FDA approval, some people here don’t like pizza delivery men. The nature of some of my questions has been questioned by Flutherites. But they are a very small puritan minority. They prefer to eat hamburgers. But they should be tolerant enough to let others have the occasional colorful pizza. Most Flutherites are really wonderful and very supportive of newcomers. Let’s appreciate what they have to offer. Let’s eat sushi in the chat room. Please.
@AstroChuck Not exactly gone. Wis.dm can be created again by anyone with the desire to do so. It is not dead. Many clones will arise to take it,s place and they will not remain clones. They will create new environments with different flavors where each question will not be moderated but simply ignored if it is worthless.
I have no intention of changing Flutter in any way at all. Changing others is not the way to true wisdom at all. Creativity and love of life in all of its flavors is.
@walterallenhaxton – While this might come true eventually, at the moment none of the attempts seem viable. Participants are not enough. You also need highly motivated organizers. And this community is called Fluther, not Flutter. Walter, it would be really great if you decided to stay. I really miss our discussions about pure capitalism and government-free countries, not to mention photovoltaics and joules and kilowatt hours ;-)
@mattbrowne :) I think Pizza was actually invented in New York and isn’t actually an Italian invention! However….look at all the “Mexican” food we eat now. In the 50’s I don’t think anyone even knew what a burrito was!
@Dutchess12- Pizza was first introduced to Americans in New York, but it definitely originated in Italy.
@Dutchess12 – As a student when riding on a Greyhound bus somewhere in the middle of nowhere, some dude asked me whether we had cars in Germany (maybe I gave him the impression I came from a developing country, or he thought all foreign countries were still under development). I told him cars were invented in Germany. He thought I was kidding and had a good laugh. Good for him! Of course cars were invented in America. I’m sure there’s some sort of memorial in Detroit. Same for the pizza, but wait. There’s also the telephone, the light bulb, the Internet, television commercial breaks and coupons for grocery stores ;-)
@mattbrowne: Add gunpowder, inbreeding of some dogs, the refinement of sexual techniques, the stirrup, the long bow, the wheel, silk, calligraphy, cigars, chocolate, polo, coffee and fire.
We did invent succotash, I think. And we no longer play polo with decapitated heads, or do we?
I only play water polo with decapitated heads.
Much easier to clean up the mess.
@mattbrowne The person who has the network that my website is on is working on an improvement that should make it a good place too. If that does not work out I plan on creating an independent site that functions in an interactive way and is simple enough to keep everybody on the same page.
@mattbrowne It is the unnecessary censorship that hurts my mind.
Yes, it’s been horrible lately. ~
@mattbrowne- Actually, you were right when you joked that the first car was invented in Germany. Karl Benz invented the first internal combustion engine driven automobile. As for America’s big impact in the world of automobiles it was Henry Ford, who was the first to mass produce cars via introduction of the assembly line. After that, Detroit was the auto Mecca.
Praise be to Allah Henry.
@AstroChuck – Agreed. Henry Ford’s invention was as critical as was Karl Benz’s invention. Europe and the US have a very fruitful symbiotic relationship. Here’s another great example:
Inventing the Internet (US) -> Inventing the World Wide Web (Europe) -> Inventing the first user-friendly web browser (US) -> ???
Okay, I actually read all that – and you know what? THIS thread seems a lot more like wis.dm than fluther ever did, in my experience and that’s a stab at wis.dm, for sure..but there are other things to be said….I was always a hardcore wis.dm member, always, and wis.dm is no longer what it used to be…and fluther was never and will never be wis.dm, but none of these statements or realities, to me, are negative…I do not regret coming to this website, no matter that ‘traitor’ remarks it’s gotten me…I made attempts to transition many wis.dmers to fluther and it’s worked out…this website didn’t work out for other wis.dmers but it didn’t have to…anyway, Kelly, I’m not sure what I’m saying here any longer but I wanted to say that I don’t think mentioning wis.dm itself will get an automatic negative response…
Somebody wants me to answer this question. I don’t have anything to say. This question did not go into limbo so it answers it’s self.
@HungryGuy: Ugh. Can I just say that Answer bag is just the worst sounding name for a website? it sounds gross…
Could be worse. It could’ve been called AnswerSack.
@breedmitch & @AstroChuck – Somewhere, there’s a question of how they came up with that name. The original founder answered the question and listed all the names he was considering. As I recall, there was quite a few…
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