Why doesn't a war on drugs work?

Alright, IMHO…

The war on drugs is simply useless and pointless, as long as there are naive and ignorant people around the world who believe that ”a man should have the right to hurt himself as long as he’s not affecting anybody else.”....

So basically, before trying to fight drugs, we should fight this stupid type of thinking first..

NOTE: However, this is only one side of the problem, and not the whole case..

everyone should just smoke weed.

War, amongst men, kills, damages, propagates hate…it divides men.
Drugs, bring sense of euphoria (albeit temporary), calm, introspection, insight (even if it doesn’t make any sense when the buss is gone the next day and you find yourself going WTF?), it unites men !
One is closer then the other to what we precieve to be attributes of a God
Small wonder that men are drawn to drugs over war, ESPECIALLY men who have experienced both…
Until that changes one will not win over the other.

—(I know many of you will disagree with excellent examples, I also know I’m speaking in generalities…but you get my point)—

@A Beaverhausen
I’ll Roll with that ;)

A “war on” anything is code for controlling that thing for the U.S.‘s political ends (or for a faction therein). If you’re not familiar with Iran-Contra and the San Jose Mercury News, look up a synopsis and you’ll see what I mean. Basically, the goal isn’t to end drug trade, but to profit from it monetarily and politically.

News just in from the war on drugs, drugs are still winning

Go drugs!

@kevbo – As far as I know Barack Obama has never used the term “war on” terrorism. In Europe this has always been called the “fight against” terrorism. I’m not sure about Obama’s terminology regarding drugs.

@kevbo

Good point, I agree with you!

It doesn’t work for the reasons that Kevbo mentioned. If it were designed to work, they would put as many, if not more, resources toward curbing demand as they are currently putting toward stemming the supply. It is a basic economic equation. Where there is a demand for a product, there will be someone to supply it.

Consider the thousands, maybe millions, of people who would suddenly find themselves jobless if the war on drugs were won tomorrow. How many federal employees working for CIA, FBI, ATF, military, DEA, and on and on…?

@Poser – Why not retrain some of them to become involved in prevention?

The government used the “war on drugs” to go into these neighborhoods where drugs are sold, take the dealers and throw them in jail then take those drugs and sell it back to the community.

Or thats just what we always say when we’re high.

The drug trade provides off the books cashflow for “black” operations.

and @mattbrowne, I truly wish it were a matter of applying a more commonsense solution. It’s a shame in a way that so much hopeful energy goes into “fixing” these problems when the real problem is that our own guys (if you will) are perpetuating it.

The same reason alcohol probation didnt work.

@archaeopteryx do you mind explaining to me why its ignorant thinking that i should be able to do what i please to my body as long as i dont effect anyone else? Or for that matter really even effect myself aside from my perception of reality for a short period of time?

Best way to reduce substance abuse is through education, not propaganda like we’ve been doing for all these years. Watch out for marijuana, its highly addictive ya know, and E will take ice cream scoops out of your brain -_ -

@uberbatman Agreed. Don’t forget that marijuana is a gateway drug, and smoking it once will most certainly lead to a downward spiral which will ultimately lead to back-alley BJs for heroin. And don’t most people who use hard drugs also drink alcohol?

It’s funny how “my body, my choice” covers “reproductive rights,” but not the right to ingest any substance you desire.

Because the War on Drugs is a great excuse to jail many more non-whites.

@Poser i do agree with the fact that marijuana is a gateway drug. But i also believe the US government made it that way. Its kind of like your told all your life marijuana is this horribly evil thing, and then you have it and realize HOLY SHIT they’ve been lying to me. Hmm i wonder what else they’ve been lying about….. The difference is i dont think it makes you NEED to do other drugs like they say, but rather be more open to the experience of other mind altering substances. As always though research is key. :)

@uberbatman
I’ve met people after years of drug abuse (and yes alcohol is a drug), they aren’t normal anymore. You can see it in a person’s eyes… they don’t shine the same. There are people who’s lives have been destroyed by their addictive personalities, or those of their family or friends.

Is getting stoned worth it? I don’t think so.

@mattbrowne, I don’t know how much this will interest you, but if you want to see the dots connected by a former LAPD narcotics officer turned “truther” check out Michael Ruppert.

I haven’t seen this video, but it’s him talking about CIA drug running circa 1997.

This video I have seen. Same guy, same story, but it also gets into 9/11 stuff.

@kevbo – Some time ago I read the book “Notes from a Big Country” by Bill Bryson. In one chapter he talks about the illusion of the war on drugs. Here’s what he has to say: “I appreciate that drugs can mess you up in a big way. I have an old schoolmate who made one LSD voyage too many in about 1977 and since that time has sat on a rocker on his parents’ porch examining the backs of his hands. So I know what drugs can do. I just haven’t reached the point where it seems to me appropriate to put to death someone for being foolish.
(...)
The saddest part of this zealous vindictiveness is that it simply does not work. America spends $50bn a year fighting drugs, and yet drug use goes on and on. The government enacts increasingly draconian laws until we find ourselves at the ludicrous point where the Speaker of the House can seriously propose to execute people – strap them to a gurney and snuff out their lives – for possessing the botanical equivalent of two bottles of vodka. My solution to the problem would be to take that $50bn and spend it on rehabilitation and prevention. Some of it could be used to take coachloads of youngsters to look at that schoolmate of mine on his Iowa porch. I am sure it would persuade most of them not to try drugs in the first place.

Here’s the full article. It’s really worth reading:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/brysons-america-why-do-killers-get-a-better-deal-than-junkies-1080781.html

@kevbo – Thanks for sharing the videos. I’m sure there are some black sheep in any secret service or police department anywhere in the world. Selling drugs can earn a lot of money, so some will be tempted. When watching the videos I thought, maybe some of it is true, some of it could be conspiracy theory. In any case, governments need to try new things that can work. The traditional war on drugs didn’t. See the suggestions above made by Bill Bryson.

Oh, I agree completely with your solutions, and I’ll read the article. The fallacy, if there is one, is that it does not work. For whom? Someone in Washington has a $50bn dollar budget. Someone has profits from a privatized prison. Someone has voters because he is “tough on crime.” Someone has apparatus to pull off covert ops. Etc.

@kevbo – For whom? Well, I would rather include concerned parents and relatives and friends of (potential) drug victims. Look at what meth does to young people in Montana. Clearly something needs to be done. You are correct, building privately owned prisons is totally counterproductive. Imagine prevention works. This would hurt the prison owners. They might have an interest getting more people on drugs. Voters should elect politicians eager to close down private prisons and getting serious about education and prevention programs.

@uberbatman

Because, even if you don’t hurt anybody else, hurting yourself will automatically hurt the rest of the community around you.

Imagine if this ignorant type of thinking was shared by the residents of an entire country or nation. The result will simply be that this country or nation is going to parish in no time! Or at least, it will be the worst, and most miserable nation ever.

Before you decide to get addicted to drugs or cigarettes or whatever, if you just stand for one minute and think rationally, logically, scientifically and pshycologically, and ask yourself these questions: “How this affect me? Will it ever affect my community? If my children saw me smoking or doing drugs, what will think? How are they gonna react? Will hurting myself ever hurt anybody else other than myself??”

If you ask yourself those questions, and really being honest about trying to find rational and scientific answers to them, you will find yourself subconsciously saying: “What the HELL was I thinking?!! O_o”

@btko your forgetting something very crucial.
Use≠ Abuse.

@archaeopteryx Lol im sorry but i fail to make any connections in what your saying. Me smoking pot does not affect my community in any way what so ever. Oh wait ya know what it does. As a result of my pot smoking im a much more pleasant and happy person to those around me. OH THE HORRORS!!!! Again as i said to btko use does not equal abuse. One can use drugs without being addicted, you seem to fail to see that. I am a very rational person and have often thought quite deeply about my choices to use drugs and always came out thinking it was the right thing. It has made me a much better person that I was before. Also i fail to see how i am hurting myself. I have enough knowledge to do my research before ingesting anything so i know how it will react with my body. You will never find me doing coke heroin meth or any of that other shit because its just stupid. Your a victim of the propaganda in america, sorry, but you really need to educate yourself some more on drugs before you go preaching.

@archaeopteryx A prohibition that arbitrarily makes certain substances illegal doesn’t prevent the vast majority of people w/in that society from ingesting said substances (as uberbatman demonstrates in his above post). If all drugs were legalized tomorrow, would you run out and sample all drugs which are illegal today (assuming you haven’t tried them already)? If your answer is no, then you are, in effect, proclaiming your superiority over the majority of Americans.

@Poser
I’m not talking about prohibition here.
What I’m talking about here is self-consciousness.

Think and think carefully, and be honest to yourself before you decide.
Do NOT do it just because you feel like it..

@archaeopteryx yes, you are talking about prohibition.

“Imagine if this ignorant type of thinking was shared by the residents of an entire country or nation. The result will simply be that this country or nation is going to parish in no time! Or at least, it will be the worst, and most miserable nation ever.”
Now if drug use is a purely self conscious thing, and everyone can make this decision on their own about wither or not they would like to use them. Why do you say there would be such travesty if they were legal?

Btw “Think and think carefully, and be honest to yourself before you decide.
Do NOT do it just because you feel like it..” I couldnt agree more. Then again this is coming from someone who uses drugs and evidently hurts everyone around him…..

it is basically impossible to win the war on drugs for the same reason that Britain could not actually win the revolutionary war with America. To win you have to eliminate all traces of drugs and drug trafficking just like the British would have to eliminate all traces of rebellion everywhere. As long as their are people willing to buy these drugs there are going to be people willing to sell.

because drugs are fun and illegal things are highly profitable

@uberbatman

“I am a very rational person and have often thought quite deeply about my choices to use drugs and always came out thinking it was the right thing. It has made me a much better person that I was before. Also i fail to see how i am hurting myself. I have enough knowledge to do my research before ingesting anything so i know how it will react with my body”

Okay, well here’s what, with all do respect (or maybe disrespect.. I’m not sure), you are pathetic, It’s very sad to that you’ve searched the entrie globe for happiness and success in life, and haven’t found it anywhere else except in a syringe injected in your a&* arm, and in a puff of a joint.. Really, it is so sad, and shows how naive you are..

@archaeopteryx To call your last post naive and self-righteous doesn’t do it justice. I’m assuming, then that neither you, nor anyone close to you has ever so much as popped an aspirin for a headache, downed a beer with dinner or walked into a pharmacy for cold medication. If so, then, by your logic, they are not only “pathetic,” but also guilty of destroying themselves and society.

btw, I think you intended to say “all due respect.”

LOfuckingL
I got to ask, how old are you achaeopteryx?

@benjaminlevi – Drugs might be fun at first. With a few exceptions (like drinking alcohol in moderation) they become an ordeal later, or rather the lack of them. Extreme examples are crack or meth.

@mattbrowne your generalizing all drugs together. I dont see the non addictive substances being an ordeal later on. Actually much less of an ordeal than the alcoholic beverage in moderation. Why would they lose their fun though?

@Poser

Well, then it’s either you or me who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
When I’m talking about drugs, I’m not talking about medicine, like Aspirin or Panadol pills or whatever. I use those all the time, there’s nothing wrong with them.

By drugs, I mean illegal ones.

@uberbatman

Why should I tell you?
I might be younger than you, but I’m sure as hell I have a way much better and healthier type of thinking than yours.

@archaeopteryx Aspirin is a drug. Panadol is a drug. Beer is a drug. Coffee is a drug. Earlier you said you weren’t talking about prohibition, and now you bring it up again. Marijuana has killed fewer people than the drugs I mentioned in my last post.

@archaeopteryx no, you have a naive outlook on this world. You also seem to lack actual experience in these topics which is why i wondered how old you are. Im guessing young teens. I also like how your separation between drugs and medicine is only legality. Legal substances are still drugs. Listen to an average commercial on tv for some new “medicine” side effects may include yada yada yada and some extreme cases may be fatal. I dont recall reading about the last time someone overdosed on marijuana….oh wait thats right… that never happened. EVER.

@mattbrowne
this I know, I was saying that it was unrealistic to think there will be any less demand for drugs anytime soon and that there will no longer be people who will leap at the chance to supply you with the drugs

I think that certain drugs should be (or, rather, should remain) illegal. I think they destroy the lives of the people who use them, ruin the lives of the people who care about those people, and are harmful to society as a whole. Some examples would be: heroin, cocaine, barbiturates, and meth because they are highly addictive and extremely harmful (physically). I think that the “war on drugs” would be more effective if it narrowed it’s scope to the most harmful drugs.

(I think legalizing marijuana would be fine.)

@uberbatman – What non-addictive substances do you mean?

@mattbrowne Mushrooms, LSD, Marijuana, Mescaline, DMT ect ect.

@phoenyx i agree.

Non-addictive versus degree of addiction/dependence. What do you think about this chart?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_(mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence).svg

Disagree on a few drugs locations on the chart.

since when was tobacco more pleasurable than LSD?

If youve ever done psychedelics you would quickly realize no logical person would want to depend on a drug like that. They are a shit load of fun but its a once in a blue moon type of thing. The only drug i listed above that i would agree with people getting a dependence on is marijuana.

@uberbatman – The chart is not about pleasure. It says nicotine is more addictive than alcohol or LSD. It says that the elements of tobacco (tar, particulate matter etc.) are more harmful than Khat for example.

@mattbrowne scroll down. There is a pleasure section.

@uberbatman – I’ve just looked at the chart. Aha. I wonder how they measure pleasure… do they conduct survey asking 1000 people to fill out forms and check boxes like “very pleasurable” or “just a little pleasurable”?

@mattbrowne doesnt say. Thats another reason i dont so much agree with the chart. How did they gather this info? What studies were done?

@uberbatman – I think you have to go the end of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_addiction

and look at the references.

@mattbrowne i didnt know what article it came from since you just linked to the image. Thanks.

“Participants were asked to score each substance for each of these nine parameters, using a four-point scale, with 0 being no risk, 1 some, 2 moderate, and 3 extreme risk.”
So the health risks were determined by a survey. Im sorry but that proves nothing. Just their perception of how much of a health risk they think it is without any actual scientific data to back it up.

@uberbatman – Agreed. We’d need to study serious scientific material.