How do you deal with a time when you feel as if people close to you are basically forcing you to act in a way that'll hurt them?

arg, that’s a really tough situation! be strong! hopefully other flutherites will have more specific advice! i just wanted to say i feel for you.

@La_chica_gomela thanks

It might be well to consider if it’s healthy or codependent behavior and then find the strength and support to proceed from whatever you surmise.

@SeventhSense
it’s not healthy, not for me, anyway
and it is co-dependent, you’re right
but I wish it didn’t have to be an ‘all or nothing’ situation

@Simone_De_Beauvoir It sounds to me like this may be related to a cultural expectation. Of course I could be wrong but that was the first thought that crossed my head. ???

My first reccomendation would be for your mental health. Unitl you are able to move out then don’t worry about it. There is no need to stress on something that will happen in the future. You can’t do anything about it right now.

I am also thinking of some compromises. Could you live on the same street or in a house in the back. Something close but your own. Of course if you couldn’t afford that you could tell your family the truth. You want your own space and if they will help you put an addition in the back you will live in it otherwise you are going to have to move away.

Other than those things this seems to be like one of those situations where you just have to do it and reap the consequences. If it is for your happiness and sanity then it is well worth it. You will probably have to put up with comments about you living away from the family but you will develop ways of dealing with those comments. Perhaps laughing them off, I’ve found that helpful. Maybe at that point you could work on doing something else they would really enjoy. Perhaps something they always wanted you to do (learn cooking, learn a language, travel somewhere, whatever it is they want of you that you haven’t done yet) and then they will have something positive to focus on as well. Of course you would also want to assure them that you love them deeply but that you just have to live alone. And that you and your child will come every week (or however often) and see them because you just couldn’t bare to be away longer than that.

This is a very difficult situation. You should pursue your happiness. This is something that may make them unhappy but it won’t hurt them. So in that circumstance it is morally okay to make you happy.

Is there an elder, a religious icon, or a counselor you could go to for advice?? They seem to help in these type of situations.

@RedPowerLady
this is definitely a cultural difference…American parents, for the most part, are all about their kids moving out…all my Russian friends faced the same issues with their parents but they don’t have kids…I had kids young…

i wouldn’t mind a lot of compromises, i wouldn’t mind living close, i wouldn’t mind them there..i don’t mind them now as long as they don’t interact with my kids in ways I don’t like and as long as they leave me alone…this just happens so rarely..

in terms of the assurances you mention, they’d just say that if I loved them truly, I wouldn’t do this, blah blah blah…

and I’m not religious, am already in therapy but I do thank you for your comments, they’re helpful

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

in terms of the assurances you mention, they’d just say that if I loved them truly, I wouldn’t do this, blah blah blah…

I had a feeling you’d say this. LOL.

Cultural expectations are the most difficult things to work with.

Maybe there is an elder that isn’t part of your family who could help you out? Whenever I have “cultural dissonance” I go to an elder.

and I’m not religious, am already in therapy
I didn’t mean to imply you needed it, i apologize if it sounded that way, I was just trying to think of people who might have a different type of insight

@RedPowerLady
there’s no elder as we’ve all always lived together, all the elders are with us now…i’ve always rejected the hierarchy but they gave up on me being ‘proper’ long ago…it doesn’t help that my dad’s cancer is stage IV and progressing…they need me here, in many ways…but him having cancer is no excuse for him being an ass…

@Simone_De_Beauvoir, I have some thoughts that may help in sorting through this conflict. But first please confirm if I have extracted the facts correctly. Do I have anything wrong?

1. You live on the second floor of your parents’ house with your husband and two children.
2. You lived there once before, during a previous marriage, but moved out.
3. There is a financial advantage to you in this arrangement.
3. Your parents help with your children.
4. Your parents do not encourage you to be independent.
5. Your extended family wants you and your children to live with them and applies emotional pressure to keep you there.
6. You are uncomfortable with this arrangement.
7. You object to the way they interact with your children.
8. You object to ?demands they put upon you.
9. Your relationship with your father is poor and has been for a long time.
10. Your relationship with your mother is unstable and has been for a long time.
11. You don’t think they care about your feelings in the matter.
12. You can’t afford to move out right now because of job losses.
13. Your family is of Russian ethnicity and there are cultural and generational issues.
14. Your father has cancer, and it is stage IV and progressing.
15. Your family is relying on you for some sort of support through your father’s health crisis.

And three questions:

—With respect to item 7, what is wrong with the way they interact with your children, and whose interaction is it that you object to?
—With respect to item 8, what is it that you object to or what do you actually mean by leaving you alone?
—With respect to item 12, is it 4a or 4b?—operable or not? What is the prognosis?

Oh, yes, and one more: are you still paying your own way in terms of rent, food, etc.?

Sorry, that third question pertains to item 14, not 12.

you cannot blame your own conflicted feelings on someone else “forcing” you to do anything. You and only you are in charge of how you choose to react or respond to those around you.

If you choose to be upset, that is on you. You should seek the help of a counselor or do some research online to find ways of dealing with difficult living arrangements.

If I were in your shoes, I’d move out as soon as you’re financially able. Let them know you are an adult, and you have your own livelihood to worry about. And about feeling guilty for moving on in your life, try seeing a therapist like the others have said.
I hope everything works out in your favor

@Jeruba
all the facts are correct, now for answers to your questions:
1. My parents, I believe, are too strict with my son…my mother is someone that took care of him for the half a year I had terrible postpartum depression and is now under the impression that he’s hers (even though it’s been over 2 years) my dad just sort of treats him like a toy that he enjoys until he doesn’t anymore and then he yells at him…my mother used to spank him, until I found out and it took a while for her to get it through her thick skull that I will not allow that under any circumstances…she further turns into everything related to the child into a competition between her and myself and about how she parents ‘better’...there are techniques that she uses (involves a lot of yelling) that I do not and everything I do is about ‘being manipulated by the toddler’ and that I, of course, ‘coddle him’ (neither of which is true)...my grandmother who’s even more full of herself just yells at him as if he’s a dog that she’s annoyed at…but all of them raised us this way and grew up in communist Russia where children are to obey and stay quiet and not annoy…

2. In terms of leaving me alone, my mother, specifically, criticizes every step of my life…now that I have another son, an infant, she can not deal with the fact that my husband (who she didn’t think could take care of children as he’s a man – yeah, they’re special, my parents) and I are capable of completely taking care of him without her incessant nagging…I swear to you she was fighting with me when I was having contractions about dust in our baby room (that wasn’t there)...everything is micromanaged so that no matter what you do, you do it wrong…and you always feel diminished and like a failure…even my husband (who’s THE most patient person in the world) gets anxiety from her and I just get angry…

3. The cancer is no longer operable as it’s spread to the lungs as well…my parents decided to abandon chemotherapy, the new oncologist I found, and the new experimental trials I got him into (months of research and work) in favor of this charlatan naturopath who’s going to give him a diet and some water and oils…as we don’t have any money, this is being put on my credit card (20000K for 2 months, I shit you not) but is being explained as ‘something that just has to be done’ when my kids are on food stamps and WIC…this is a huge source of conflict as well as I think this ‘doctor’ is a thief and a murderer to boot as he was the one to tell my dad to ‘quit chemo’...

sigh

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out a response to me…

Wow, sounds like a sticky situation.
So, you rent the second floor…do they come into your family space? I assume when you say you rent it, that you pay at least a little bit of rent..do your parents respect you as tenents at all?
Also, within your culture, how long do the children live with their parents and grandparents? Does this go on until they pass away? I’m just curious, I’m not familiar with things like this.

on a side note, my husband and i have been debating whether to move into my parents home, to save money. i feel i could have written parts of your question, in regards to how your mother has different parenting skills!

You have your own family. Your responsibility is to them, not to your parents.

@casheroo
yes, my mothers comes into my space uninvited, if not, she calls all the freaking time…my aunt and dad come in invited…i’ve already had to have multiples scandals with her about not touching anything in our kitchen (like she’d just take water mugs and start cleaning them as we ‘poisoning the infant’) and not coming after 11 pm…we pay rent comparable to what we’d pay for a separate two bedroom, maybe a bit lower, now that my husband’s laid off…

in terms of how long the parents and grandparents live together..well, my grandparents lived with my parents till they died and we have one grandma left (on mom’s side) and she lives with us…so yeah till their death…

in terms of you moving in, please reconsider it..the money’s not worth you getting criticized

@Poser
i understand that logically
but they disagree

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Let ‘em.

@Poser
I understand ‘letting’ them
I just know that if I do this, if I move out, there’s no going back for me because I don’t regress…and they will hate their lives as they have nothing else to live for…no hobbies, no friends, they do it all ’ for the kids and grandkids ’ even if we’re unhappy…

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I understand your predicament. But if they won’t listen to reason, if they won’t see that what they are doing is not good for their children and grandchildren, then you have to do what you have to do. Your children are your responsibility, and you can’t let their well-being take a back seat to that of people who don’t care if they’re unhappy.

Here’s the way I see it, @Simone. There’s a reciprocal dependency there. You are dependent on them for the material support of reduced rent and ?maybe a break on utilities, shared food supply, etc., and help with child care. They are reliant on you for some kind of emotional and practical support in your father’s terminal illness, which Dr. Feelgood is really not going to help with, and for both the joy that the children provide and the all-important distraction of this ongoing conflict, which keeps all of them from focusing on the impending final crisis with your father and all the difficult decisions that will follow from that. It seems to me that you are the biggest source of entertainment (=diversion) they have, and the last thing they want to do is resolve differences. They have a stake in keeping the uproar going.

It seems to me that the crucial question for you is not their behavior at all but whether you can afford to move out. If you are paying what you could pay for a modest 2-BR, go get it. If you could only afford a 1-BR, would that be better or not? How about a mobile home or a less desirable 2-BR? Is there any way you can afford to get out and live elsewhere? They are never going to believe you are independent and self-determining if you aren’t.

If there isn’t any way, then all the questions about how to deal with their reactions when they force you out, etc., are a smokescreen. If you aren’t going anywhere, then they are not forcing you out. Then the question is, rather, how to get along with them.

So it seems to me that what you really need to resolve is something other than the question you originally posted. I think first you need to figure out what you truly can and can’t do, will and won’t do. Then you have to deal with the consequences of that.

I any case you cannot change any behavior of theirs. You can only change your own.

@Jeruba very good especially “you cannot change any behavior of theirs. You can only change your own.”

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
I wish it didn’t have to be an ‘all or nothing’ situation
This itself is a codependent thought patttern. Rare are situations all or nothing except for say, a person holding a gun at the head of your child. Drama is a manipulative pattern by persons who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own emmotional state. You didn’t cause their problem, you can’t cure their problem and you can’t control their problem…only your own. Live your life.

@Jeruba
at this point I can’t move out, but there will be a point when I can…I just never thought I would and it seems that all this conflict only accelerated this thought process for me…I will eventually make more money and my husband will as well…yesterday I asked for all the expenses they pay on my behalf in order to start thinking about what our future budget will look like…

I wouldn’t want to move out just into any apartment as this is a good neighborhood, close to my children’s daycare and doctor, it has a backyard, pets, etc. I don’t want them to live in a more restrictive place just because I have issues with my parents…on the other hand, I don’t want them to be witness to our issues any more…

since I’ve written the question, I have informed my parents that I will move out as soon as possible and although they already did start their emotionally abusive counter attack, I am glad I put it out there…basically, this is all new for me, this kind of ‘fuck you’ to them…it’s not that I’m not independent…I have lived my life independently despite all their crap…in England, in South Africa and always with a person that I wanted, not with who they wanted…

also even if I move out, they won’t think I’m independent or capable, they’ll just think we’re doing an awful job raising the kids…this is how my grandmother treats my mother about me and my mother repeats the pattern…

I cannot change their behaviour, I just wish it were different…and I try VERY hard to limit my interaction with all of them but it’s hard as my son goes between all floors and I often follow him…

just to show you how psychotic my mom is…i just got a new job (no congratulations on that, p.s.)...and she calls me and screams “why don’t I know your new schedule yet? how am I supposed to make my pedicure appointment this week?!”...ya, just saying

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
You have a desire to be independent and that’s good. Anyone who would welcome a child’s dependence upon them long after they should have grown up, does no service to themselves or the child. It is a selfish aim. Now for you, to be dependent upon your parents does not allow you any true autonomy and only clouds the issue. You have got to break free of the nest whether you are encouraged to fly or not. And when you are truly independent you can support them in a healthy way and return the favor that they were kind enough to extend to you.

@SeventhSense
i agree they re selfish but they think i am
as it is a cultural must to put your parents before your children
even if i move out, once my father passes, it’s a REAL possibility that my old grandma, aging mother and aunt will have to move close to us or in with us as none of them think they can live without a man in the house

Well no offense but you are also selfish by leaning on them for support still. It’s not a one way street. Both parties in a codependent relationship get something out of it, even if it’s unhealthy. There is a payoff like any addiction only eventually the price is eventually too high. But you can’t argue this position from your current standpoint until you have effectively moved out. It’s like the alcoholic sitting at the bar espousing the wonders of clean living. Once you are able to make the transition you will see everything in a completely different context. And please understand, I speak from experience. I have a mother who would buy my religious affiliation if she could.

@SeventhSense
I am not taking offense…it is just that I never planned to move out, we’ve talked about how we can co-exist and they’ve now forgotten about it…I had children expecting support, but I’ve never taken it for granted…if I could foresee how it’d all turn out, I would make different decisions