Is infidelity a matter of thought or action?

I thought this question was going to be just about fantasizing about others. I’m glad it’s not. :)

I’d be more hurt if my guy made a plan to have sex with someone else. Knowing that he met someone, planned a meeting point, packed the condoms (oh god, hopefully!), took a shower to get extra spiffy, picked out his clothes, maybe even lied to me about where he was going… it would be heartbreaking and unforgivable that he soberly a) convinced himself this was ok and b) took steps to carry out his desires.

A drunken hook up or one night stand is NOT ok. It may even destroy my trust to the point of breaking up. I would be hurt… but not as hurt as I would be if it took thought and foresight.

Maybe it’s a little comparable to 1st v. 2nd degree murder?

As long as I’m thinking about you, it’s not cheating.

I would definitely be more hurt if he consciously made the decision to cheat. If it was a drunken one night stand I may eventually be able to forgive him

It’s both, actually. If you think about it, and never take action on it, then it’s not infidelity. But if you take action, it depends on your thought (or lack thereof) in doing it. If you think you love the person you are cheating with, that is much more of a cheat than if you’re just fucking.

Random encounters—one night stands, and the like, show a lack of good sense, but are less threatening to the relationship. If the relationship is intense, then, even if there is no physical contact, it is infidelity. If my wife planned it out, I would be seriously upset, and I don’t know if I could ever forgive that.

There’s theoretical contemplation… and then dedicated fantasizing. I think dedicated fantasizing, where the person imagines in detail and is actively longing to participate is where the line is crossed.

On the other hand, as far as proof goes (which predicates reaction), then you gotta wait until they actually do.

@Likeradar I wasn’t even thinking about the fantasizing bit. Thanks for pointing that out.

@All Great responses so far. Keep them coming!

You can not punish somebody for thinking. I could plan a million things I never have any intension of fulfilling. If somebody you know has planned to cheat, but has not gone through with it something must be holding them back; whether it be love you fear. It would be hurtful, but not entirely their fault. Obviously, something is wrong in the relationship on both peoples part.

Remember poor Jimmy Carter and his “Playboy interview” in Nov. 1976? No? Well, this bit of frankness was the trigger of many a joke.

“I’ve looked on a lot of women with lust. I’ve committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes I will do—and I have done it—and God forgives me for it.”

@ShauneP82 Why can’t you punish someone for thinking? That’s part of the question really. Can you call someone out for thinking or intending something they haven’t done? The responses so far seem to show that people would be more hurt by the former than the latter not that they wouldn’t be be hurt by the latter, of course. This seems to show that the thought as well as the action is an important part of the process of cheating.

For the record, I am not talking about mere fantasizing here, which I think is healthy and normal for a relationship.

I don’t think it’s actual infidelity until you follow through on the decision. But the fact that you can make the decision is a sign that something in the relationship is seriously broken.

So I’d have to say that from a guilt point of view, it’s not infidelity until you do it. But from a relationship health point of view, the difference between deciding to do it and actually doing it is infinitesimal.

Rosalind Carter was amused, I believe.

@gailcalled I’m sure she was. I would have a bit of a hard time laughing that one off myself. Hubris is my weakness.

I am and have been in this boat as the cheater… I had fully intended and planned out an encounter even wrote down everything I wanted to do to him and him to me. Plans fell apart and I knew it was wrong and never followed thru and forgot all about it. Until the day I found my chicken scratch on my kitchen counter with an angry boyfriend looking at me with hate in his eyes. Did it matter that I didn’t follow thru, no it didn’t. I pay for this everytime I look at the hurt I put in his eyes. We are still together and are trying to make things work but it was aweful of me to even think about doing this behind his back.

@mpjt2005 Good to see the other POV. Thanks! It’s clear that you have remorse, though. Hope everything works out for you.

@bezdomnaya I suppose you could punish somebody for a thought. My question to you though is how long and how? Would you bring it up everytime you were discussing relationship with the person that thought about cheating? @mpjt2005 is a good example. She feels the shame everytime she looks into her bf eyes. Is it right for him to keep punishing her for a thought. It is true they are trying to work it out, but is that fair to her to live with this person and suffer because of a thought. How many times should you apologize? Is it worth staying with somebody you feel you can’t trust?

One cannot be judged for their thoughts, only for their actions. I’m pretty sure that we all have thought some pretty crazy things in our lives. Even if I am obsessing about a person, desiring them, I have not crossed a line unless I act on it. We do not owe our partners every thought we have.

Further @bezdomnaya in mpjt2005 case she was actually being punished for writing out her fantasies not for thinking about them.

I’d say when one DECIDES to cheat that’s cheating. It’s not the same as FANTASIZING about cheating which everyone does whether they admit it or not. Someone can THINK about killing me and that’s ok, but when he DECIDES to do it, I’m out of here.

The operable word here is “DECIDE”.

@bezdomnaya seems as if we are at a stage in our relationship where it could be forgivable for me to plan what I did ( does it matter that it was an old flame, I don’t know). I feel now that I have to prove my love for him everyday and even tho he doesn’t ask me too I feel obligated to. He always says how faithful and loyal he is and I feel like trash because of a thought and the fact that I wrote down explicite things. He does not want to leave me nor do I want to leave him but it is still hard.

I don’t think we owe every thought to our SO hence why I mentioned that I’m not talking about fantasizing here, but if the thought is malicious, I believe there should be repercussions. Not 1984 Orwellian repercussions though. Clearly, that should be decided on a case by case basis.

I think that the amount of guilt put on the person is a complete discussion in itself. Lots of different things to be discussed there: Feel free to take up this forum to do so. I would ask another question to that effect, but I’m at my max at the moment. Damn it for wanting to know about candy bars!

@Mr_M – actually in a court of law, the Decider can be found guilty of nothing. (Forget about conspiracy – it does not enter the picuture here) It is only once the Decider takes action to make his plan a reality, that he can be prosecuted.
Imagine for a moment, man and wife fight. He says “I have decided to kill you, Bitch!” She call the cops. Cops come and do you think husband will be arrested? No, because he has not acted on his decision.

Do you think the wife will continue to live with him? No. Yet he hasn’t acted on his decision.

What if he SAYS, “I’ve decided to cheat on you.” Should she walk out only when he actually does?

@VS I disagree. If you are threatened that is grounds for legal intervention. Cheating and killing are two different things.

Just like murder, the act with forethought is worse. It is also worse to plan an affair that does not take place than to “fall into bed” with someone.

In fact, the most recent time my wife cheated, it was still in the planning stages. She was communicating via phone and email with the guy for eight months. She told him she needed two years to finish up some things before she could fully commit to him. If this was the first time, I could have worked with her. Unfortunately, she had physically cheated before, so I knew she would have gone through with this time.

Also, if she had cheated without forethought, it would be bad, but not the end of the world. However, she fell in love with each guy and was planning a future life with him. I cannot be married to her.

definately agree with you @ru2bz46 the act with forethought is worse. Because they know exactly what they are doing and how it will effect your relationship.
But cheating without forethought is aslo bad and not sure i could forgive that ut i would definately not forgive it if it was planned

I forgave her for all her transgressions, @funky_princess, but I cannot forget about them. I don’t want revenge or anything, and I still treat her well, and we get along great. We are separated, though. I agree that either form of cheating is bad enough to potentially end a relationship, but the “accidental” version would be easier to work through.

@ru2bz46 i dont think i could ever stay friends with someone who cheated on me, I would never be able to look at them in the eye. Knowing that they cared so little about our relationship to plan on cheating
I wouldnt want revenge but i could not stay friends.

@funky_princess We’ve know each other her whole life, and there is a lot of history. If all we had together was the time of our relationship (14 years), she’d be out on her butt.

o ok then.
Well i admire you for what your doing and the way you have handles things!

handled

@funky princess: you’re

@funky_princess: Cheating does not always mean a person cares little about the relationship. Perhaps even rarely does it. It’s causes are much deeper, and often a sign of desperation. If you work on the problems that lead to the cheating; if you both take responsibility for hurting the relationship, then you can have a possibility of forgiveness. If you are rock solid in blaming the other person, and interpreting their behavior as betrayal, then the relationship is kaput, and not necessarily because the cheater wanted it.

I hope you are never in the position of cheating or being cheated on, but if you are, I hope you will be open to examining yourself as well as your partner. Perhaps you can forgive and make a go of it again. There is hope.

@daloon Yeah ok i get you point of view but i just dont think i could ever forgive someone who cheated.
I personally would never cheat, even if i was in a bad relationship and yes i would examine myself if a partner ever cheated but whats wrong with sitting down and talking about the bad things in a relationship rather then going out and having sex with someone else!

@funky_princess Nothing wrong with it. In fact, that’s an excellent starting place. I just want to ask you, have you never been afraid to raise an issue with someone?

@daloon, no never been afraid to raise an issue with someone, if it was a really big issue no i wouldnt be afriad.
I think thats the least your partner deserves!

I personally believe that infidelity is a series of choices. I don’t buy the whole, “We were swept away in the heat of the moment” thing, or the “We were drunk” one.

For example, if you are in a relationship where you sense you may stray, you choose whether or not to get drunk, knowing what may follow.

I was once approached by a gorgeous man. I knew him a little and liked him a lot. I had two small children and my marriage was at the beginning of meltdown. I was SOOOOOO tempted!

And then I suddenly thought, “But I’m not Unfaithful.” And everything after that was easy – mentally. Emotionally it hurt like hell but I have to say, making the decision not to be unfaithful simply saw me through everything else. Someone told me I must be incredibly strong, but I don’t buy that either. I was just honest.

And though my marriage ended, I can hold my head up high and know I ‘Did the Right Thing’.

NB This doesn’t mean I look down on people who cheat – I haven’t walked in their shoes. But I do think you CAN choose not to… you just need to make that choice before you’re in the bedroom with no clothes on…