What is the proper role for men in this new century and culture?

Get out of the way and do what you’re told!~

Wow. Thats what I kind of thought women were thinking. But I think you are wrong sadly. lol ; )

just kidding. I’m to old to understand what is really going on in the new generation

Well, from my perspective. With so many people getting divorces, no faith in anything except the all mighty dollar, the new phenomenon of gay and lesbian marriages. Fathers appear to be useless. They are not fulfilling their role as the head of a family anymore. Now they are in the way and abusive it seems. Singles mothers are the norm now. What are your thoughts?

Every family makes choices, and it’s true, there are more choices available than ever before. History will decide if it is beneficial or not. Many people still do choose traditional families.

My wife and I are newly wed and we choose a traditional family. We work together. It is a great existence.

I keep a loincloth and a club in my closet in case I ever have to hunt for food.

@Mr_M So you say we are providers?

@ShauneP82, actually, not anymore. Today either spouse or both can be the provider. Sometimes it goes back and forth between the two. There are no “definites” nor are there constants today. And there are no rules.

The only thing a man MIGHT do uniquely is provide the sperm for child bearing and the woman, the egg.

@Mr_M It seems that way, but I do not agree. I think their are many things that either sex thinks they can do just as effectively as the other, but I think some things are just meant to be for a man and others for a woman.

I like to scratch myself and leave the toilet seat up. It doesn’t burt to grunt once in a while, either.

Now, excuse me, I have to go get a cheeseburger and a beer. There’s a game on today.

@IchtheosaurusRex Do you really think that is what makes a man?

@ShauneP82 You are buying into the hype. Fathers are absolutely necessary. Most men don’t truly believe that they are unnecessary to their children, and fewer still are abusive. You hear the horror stories, not the every day stories about good men.

Yes, divorce rates are high, and sadly, family courts tend to have the same opinion of men that you describe. It is very difficult for divorced fathers to maintain strong relationships with their children when they are told by society that they are, at best, useless, and, at worst, abusive.

To answer your question, though, I believe men do have a role in this century. I think that the last forty years have been devistating to masculinity, to the point that to express anything that was traditionally within the realm of “manliness” is considered sexist. It is because men no longer have a defined role in society that we see abuse, divorce, and absent fathers.

The male psyche needs something to take pride in. Men used to be able to take pride in caring and providing for their family. It was a society-wide value. Women now have a world of choices—they can be mothers or CEOs, soldiers or seamstresses. Or all at once. That is the benefit of the women’s movement, and it’s great for women.

But the handicap is that men no longer have a clearly defined role. Society doesn’t appreciate a man who takes care of his family, and, as a result, men spend their masculine energy on every sort of destructive behavior. Just take a look at almost every male figure represented in the entertainment industry. He’s either stupid, oafish, rude, ignorant, mean, abusive, criminal or just plain dumb. Compare that with the average female representation.

Interesting take from a well-read cynic.

@Poser Don’t get me wrong. I agree with you entirely. I merely asked the question to engage others. I know that I will have a major role in my family’s home. My wife and I know that men are needed in this society. This is something the feminist movement has certainly weakened, but I feel a revival of masculinity will come about just as the feminist movement did.

@hiphiphopflipflapflop Do you really think a chump like that is a man? He has a dick, but he is a coward in my opinion. Real men do not act like that. Personally, if anybody thinks that way about a marriage they should not even date. Go GAY if you think women are like that. He sounds pissed because his wife makes more than he.

apparently we’re supposed to drive hooked up cars really fast for foreign drug dealers.

@qualitycontrol LOL!!! That and kick the crap out of evil demons created in a science lab that are consuming the human race.

@ShauneP82 , no, it’s what makes a stereotype. If it seems a bit flippant that I’d joke about it – I don’t see what male-ness has to do with what role anyone would play in this century or any other. Children are born innocent and learn their roles from the people around them. It comes down to what kind of example you set.

My 3-yo daughter has already decided she wants to be a doctor. I have been discouraging her from taking an interest Barbie dolls. That’s where I’m coming from.

@IchtheosaurusRex I think I agree with you. If you are saying that boys look to their fathers to find examples of exactly what a man is supposed to be, I have to agree. If, however, you are saying that the only innate difference between baby boys and baby girls is in their genitalia, and any differences in personality are due to how they interpret symbols regarding gender roles around them, I have to respectfully disagree.

That is why I believe that men have such an important role in society. My generation is one of aimless men, having grown up with weak or non-existent examples of masculinity.

@IchtheosaurusRex Actually, studies have shown children that are raised neutral sexed still tend to divide their gender roles. Females still move toward toys and activities that are still “stereotyped” (if that is what you want to call it) as feminine. The same for boys and masculine toys and games.

What wrong with your child being a doctor? Nothing. But, what if she decided she wanted to be a fire fighter instead. Do you honestly think you would like to imagine her kicking in the door of a burning building to save a man that is more than twice her size? Could she physically do it?

Male and female are different. It is the same through out the animal kingdom as well. Humans in the end are animals. What if a man decided he was descriminated against for not being able to have children from his own body? From your perspective he should have that right, but will he? No.

@Poser well said. I agree personality can be influenced but genders are different.

There are differences between men and women that are based on gender at birth, no question of it. However, I was a schoolteacher once, and I can tell you that the differences aren’t significant enough to justify perpetuating stereotypes. For example, I had more boys in my computer programming classes than I did girls, but the girls were consistently in the top half of the class.

I know I’m going to lose the Barbie battle with my kid, but she’s already using a computer. She can navigate the Nick Jr. website better than I can.

@IchtheosaurusRex What stereotypes? I am not talking about toys. Toys these days are made to please the manufacturer. They are not designed to nurture the mind.

I can not think of a bigger stereotype in the world today than the “super mom” who is supposedly able to do both her job and a mans. It is possible to juggle both roles, but why would you want too? You would die from being over worked. Beside after all it said and done a single mother can not provide the innate lessons that a father can alone teach.

For example, what it means to be a man.

Furthermore, if you don’t want your child to have a type of toy. Say no. Under no condition should you lose a battle with your child who does not know the world or what it produces can do to them. Scream as they might, if they weren’t watching television for their education they wouldn’t care about them that much.

@IchtheosaurusRex I understand what you are saying, and I agree. Stereotypes shouldn’t be perpetuated. They also shouldn’t, however, be discounted. If fewer girls tend to go into math and science fields, but do better at them when they do, this issue should be addressed. Are they discouraged from doing so, or are they, by and large, simply not interested? Should a girl who has no interest in being a doctor be urged to go into the field just to break stereotypes? Certainly not. All children should be given an excellent general education—introduced to many fields and subjects—until they are old enough and mature enough to figure out what they are interested in. Then they should be encouraged to pursue those interests, wherever they may lie.

@Poser Wow! You write in a way that I think, but can never get it out on paper or on screen. Way to strengthen this discourse.

@ShauneP82 Thanks! It’s a great question. One I’ve been pondering for years.

A man can take on whatever role he chooses, in this century, which is the beauty of it, not the despair of it. I do not and will not ever buy into the concept of gender roles. I’ve never considered myself “feminine” in personality, nor have I considered myself “masculine” in personality. I’m a complex human being, as are we all.

People are highly unaware of how much culture influences people to be certain ways. There’s no way anyone can judge how much their culture has made them who they are, because it’s something they’ve been around since birth. At birth, there are no huge differences, besides genitalia, that separate girls and boys. All of our ideas of what we should be stem from our culture.

I’ve always felt this way, but now that I’m taking cultural anthropology, it has only confirmed my beliefs that much more. The beauty of being human is that we are so complex. Mere societal roles, whatever any culture believes them to be, are not what defines a human being.

@DrasticDreamer Then why do we cling to culture so much if it is as you say?

@DrasticDreamer Your first paragraph reminded me of something I read recently (I’m afraid I don’t remember where). The author was denouncing the idea of men having a “feminine side.” He said that, while men are certainly capable of being sensitive and nurturing, and possessing certain traits which are traditionally female traits, this isn’t evidence of a feminine side to our personality. These are masculine traits just as much as aggresiveness or stoicism. When I hug and kiss my son goodnight, or hold him when he’s sad or hurt, it isn’t because of any feminine traits within me. It’s because masculinity is complex.

@Poser @DrasticDreamer I can indeed agree to that. But despite how equal we may be as children our genders do change us. You can not determine anything about a person as a child. It is who they become. Which I feel many people such as feminists choose to ignore.

Also, aggression and violence, I do not agree are masculine. I have met some pretty aggressive and cold stoic women. Should they be look at as being masculine or just a bitch? Should they? lol.

@ShauneP82 Because we’ve been around it since birth. The reason we know culture has so much to do with who we are or who we choose to become, is because we can clearly see the huge differences from culture to culture. Is this a bad thing? Not at all. But it just proves that when we believe “this is how someone should be”, often times, it is how someone will be. What it also proves is that anyone can take on whatever role they choose, because humans are capable of it.

And no, genders don’t change us as we age. Our ideas of what we believe genders should be, are what change us as we get older.

@Poser: That’s a very good example of what I mean. Someone who believes in gender roles would say that a man who displays any kind of nurturing trait is “feminine”, which can be seriously damaging to a male. He will feel and display his nurturing side because he loves his child, but then he’s made to feel like something is wrong with him, because he isn’t “male” enough.

Just as it tends to be a common belief that women shouldn’t show aggression or anger, because it isn’t “feminine”. But, just as with a male, she will inevitably feel these emotions because she is human. Not acknowledging these feelings or being made to think that he or she shouldn’t feel these things because they aren’t “masculine” or “feminine”, is very, very damaging.

@ShauneP82 No. What I was trying to say is that there are traits that men and women have that overlap. It doesn’t point to any feminine side of men or masculine side of women.

@DrasticDreamer But I also think that claiming that it’s okay for men to have a feminine side is damaging. It’s absolutely okay for men to nurture and display emotions. But there is no feminine side.

@Poser Which means that there is no masculine side, either. There are just human emotions.

@DrasticDreamer I disagree. There may not be a masculine side, but there is masculinity. I only have a masculine side. I don’t say that defensively or braggingly (for lack of a better term). It’s simply who I am.

@Poser And this is where we disagree. As I said above, I do not believe, at all, in “masculine” and “feminine” – especially since taking cultural anthropology. (Which is highly interesting and might be something you’d be interested in.)

@DrasticDreamer Okay, I understand your arguement now. I agree 100% emotions do not determine what is masculine and what is feminine. I agree, but I still have to protest that we are exactly the same. It is obvious we are not. Look at physical features. You have breasts, I do not, etc. Therefore, we as opposite sexes will adopt different emotions more than others. Neither sex is better than the other in terms of emotion. I can be just as happy as you. But, some things you can do I can not. That is what I am saying is different. Due to that men do despite what emotions they adopt are needed in society. Besides actual cultur no longer exists. It is what you want it to be. So I don’t think it is a valid argument. You culturally think we are the same. I don’t. It can’t work when culture changes in every house.

@DrasticDreamer I suspected this was what you were getting at. I have to say, however, that spending time around very young children of both genders has further convinced me that there are definite innate differences between the male and female of the species. You can blame the gender-specific toys, but even when faced with an easy-bake oven, most boys will use it as a bomb.

@Poser I love it!!!! Thats great! How true.

Okay. I love this discourse. I will be back tommorrow. So be ready for more from me.

@ShauneP82 No, culturally, I definitely don’t think we’re the same. On top of their being culture, there are also what are called subcultures or microcultures. Yes, I definitely acknowledge the differences in bodies. Without them, there could be no human race. Mentally, however, I don’t believe in inherent differences.

@Poser Differences, yes. Caused by what, though? That’s what I’m getting at. It can easily be argued, especially because of the numerous things cultural anthropologists have discovered about societies, roles and the ideas that are generated within any given society. My point is that what is “male” or “female” in one society will not necessarily be “male” or “female” in another, which goes to show that at birth, there are no true differences in people, besides – obviously – genitalia.

Growing up, I didn’t have as many gender ideas pushed onto me as a lot of other people do. The result was that I very rarely wanted a Barbie doll. I took interest in remote-controlled cars (and similar toys) over anything else. Just as there are plenty of boys who now grow up playing with dolls if they want to. People would be surprised at the results if they let their children (by not putting ideas into their heads in the first place) choose whatever toys they wanted. Roles are created by societies.

@DrasticDreamer Gender roles may certainly be created by society. But that’s not the same as saying that gender differences are. I just think that there are far too many similarities in the roles most societies place on each gender to discount inherent differences.

I understand where you’re coming from. But here we have to just agree to disagree or we’ll go on and on and on. Good conversation, though.

@DrasticDreamer There’s something we can agree on!

I believe men have the role of father.. provider.. husband. I can’t answer for single dudes.. It’s been too long.

I want to add something, from an anthropological field study done by Margaret Mead:

“From the turbulence of adolescence, Mead next turned to the question of gender roles. Based on her research among the Arapesh, Tchambuli, and Mundugumor of New Guinea, she attempted to demonstrate that there were no universal temperaments that were exclusively masculine or feminine. More specifically, Mead reported that among the Arapesh, both men and women had what Westerners would consider feminine temperaments (that is, nurturing, cooperative, nonaggressive, maternal); both Mudugumor men and women displayed exactly the opposite traits (that is, ruthless, aggressive, violent demeanors), whereas among the Tchambuli there was a complete reversal of the male-female temperaments found in North American culture. Based on these findings, Mead concluded in her Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies (1935) that our own Western conception of masculine and feminine is not genetically based but rather is culturally determined.” (Cultural Anthropology – An Applied Perspective, 7th Edition – Gary Ferraro)

I posted this because it is generally assumed, without actual knowledge, that there are certain fundamental aspects that are believed to be shared by every culture. But obviously, this is not necessarily the case.

Taking into consideration that she studied varying cultures within a close proximity to each other and still got huge differences, one can not assume that different cultures, especially ones that are continents apart, will have a certain “sameness”. For instance, what a man is and what a woman is.

This is some great discourse. However, I would like to redirect the discussion back to the initial question. That way it will stay fresh in peoples minds. “What is the proper role for men in this new century and culture?”

@ShauneP82 , when I speak of stereotypes, I speak to the notion that men are callous louts, driven by control, competition and conquest, your stereotypical alpha male. There are still a number of those about, but not so many as to condemn the entire race, which 20th Century feminism was more than apt to do. I admire Eleanor Roosevelt, but Gloria Steinem can take her vibrator and…

I won’t forbid my daughter to play with Barbie dolls. I just won’t stop referring to Barbie as an anorexic bleach blonde who’s not an appropriate role model for young girls, and leave it at that.

@IchtheosaurusRex LMAO!!! Well said. Did you know that the term “race” is also stereotypical. Their really is no such thing as a race of anything except the human race. Technically the entire world should say ethnicity.

I do think Barbie is bleach blonde bimbo as well. I’d rather gouge my own eyes than let my daughter have one. lol.

The proper role of men these days? Well, there are a lot of rules, but I’ll only touch a few of them. First of all, all men must wear chaps. Chaps, and nothing underneath. It’s a bitch in winter, I know, but there’s nothing for it.

The boys need to be free, you know, and plus, you’ve got to be ready for action. After all, as soon as those females see you, they’ll be clustering around, begging for some sugar…. syrup. You’ll need to oblige them—that is, if you really are a man.

Another rule: no teeth brushing. Tooth brushes are for sissies. So are dentists. In fact, the entire medical profession is for sissies. Or maybe large animals. A doctor may be a poor subsitute for a vet, but what can you do? Anyway, a real man needs a real manly odor eminating from his mouth. Armpits too. And, while I’m thinking about it, crotch, too.

Then there’s the issue of etiquette. Etiquette? What etiquette? That’s right son, ain’t no etiquette where man guys come from. It’s the law of the jungle. If you got a woman, lock her up, lest she see some other guy’s ding dong, and go running after him. Women are so like that. Cheating wenches.

And finally, at least for today, is that all men got to join the misogynist of the month club. Every month, a new guy gets to bear the golden chastity belt. He may install it upon as many women as he wants. But he must also have a whip, to keep them in line, especially when working in the scullery.

So, that’s it for today. There is more, of course, so much more, but if you want to hear the rest, pony up. You think I give away this shit for free?