Post some creative ways to solve the abortion issue.

Who here has read Jonathan Swift’s, “A Modest Proposal”?

@Haroot: I haven’t; What’s this proposal?

Condoms were a pretty creative idea. If I were going to try to hatch a new one, I would say some nano-sized, ovary drones could keep the area sperm free until the woman was ready to set defenses on standby for a child.

In order to get a protesting license, you must agree to financially help someone considering an abortion to raise that child through college age, even it means taking that person into your own home.

“You would even got a fresh egg every day for breakfast.”

?!?!?!?!?!

Retroactive abortion.

How about simply not breeding? That’s working out quite nicely for me. It’s easy to take control of one’s reproduction.

I don’t understand, don’t eggs need to be fertilized inside the person? How could we just lay an egg and give it away?

A creative way to solve the abortion issue? People get the hell out of other peoples lives.

@ragingloli You cannibal!

It’s not an issue that can be “solved”.

Slap a murder charge on those who get one?

More condoms.

Chastity belts with unpickable locks?

Or, you know, honest and open dialogue so that sex doesn’t seem like a taboo subject that shouldn’t be discussed until after mistakes are made.

We could always pass a law removing all human rights from the females of our species and forcing them to spend all their lives indoors cooking. That way we would eliminate:

1) abortion
2) sexual harrassment lawsuits
3) equal rights advocates blocking up our streets with their demos
4) divorce and the ills thereof
5) female politicians (Margaret Thatcher springs to mind)
6) MacDonald’s and the health issues associated with it
7) car accidents caused either by liberated women behind a steering wheel, or liberated women in minis on the pavement, causing unliberated men to drive into a telephone pole.
8) delays at the check-out counter, because the lady in front decided to start chatting with the cashier.

I could probably think of a million more…

We could perform reversible vasectomies on all baby boys at birth. Reversible only when the marry and their wives request it.

Make birth control free to all women who want it. Oh wait we already do that and thousands of women still can’t even be responsible enough to not end up with an unwanted pregnancy….

Abortion is not the problem. The problem is unwanted pregnancies, and the only way to prevent those involves education, persuasion and social engineering; these cost effort.

@BBSDTfamily use of birth control =/= no unwanted pregnancies.

LOL at a fresh egg for breakfast… Maybe the idea hasn’t been thought through enough, but would the woman be able to control when the egg dropped, or would it be at a set time every day? So much to think about… :)

@BBSDTfamily still can’t even be responsible enough to not end up with an unwanted pregnancy…. Well, now, how does one answer that? My own experience: I became pregnant unexpectedly at age 41; when I expressed surprise, the gynaecologist asked if we had used any protection. When I said No, he asked what planet I came out of. Irresponsible? perhaps. Over 40, with some 20 years’ full time education in my CV, and I forget the elementary fact of reproduction. It can happen to anybody. It happened to me.

But I was a fully employed professional, with family and other supports. I had choices,(which I abrogated by my conduct). Many women have few choices, whether to have sex or not, whether to use protection, or not; whether to have an abortion, or not. What is needed, and needed now, is a means of emancipating women from the restraints of gender – you notice I do not say sex roles. Gender is a social construct.

Here are statistics, from 2008.

It’s interesting that 61% of all women having abortions already have one or more children, and 78% report religious affiliation. Unintended pregnancy increased by 29% among poor women, and decreased by 20% among higher income women. 56% are in their 20’s and 67% have never been married.

@Pol_is_aware Here: http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

For the record, it’s a satire. I don’t promote eating children.

I love how people think birth control is free. Do you know how hard it is to get free birth control? I was on medical assistance and was getting it, then I got married and no longer received it. i was engaged when on medical assistance Most people make too much money for medical assistance. We’re broke enough that our son gets it, but we adults cannot.

Be fruitful and multiply,
Gods blessing to the families who provide
(socially conservative…biblical)Christian example foremost
and encourage responsibility and Christian lifestyle
in family also.

However, God curses in multiples
those who oppress believers in Christ,
he neither gives specific blessing nor
curses to the neutrals…

The abortion issue can only be solved when everyone on one side of the issue changes their mind, and they agree on a single answer.

My take on it is “Make a choice before you make a baby.”

I’m in favor of free (taxpayer funded)birth control for both men and women.

@Haroot they don’t taste that good anyway…I usually just have the potatoes.

The reality of the situation is that abortion is like prostitution, been around forever and will probably never go away. When it is illegal it is done in back alleys and unsterile conditions. It should always be legal and if you are opposed to it, don’t have one. As AlfredaPrufrock said, let those who protest, adopt an unwanted child, that will keep them off the street and doing something productive for society.

Cut off their dicks! Thanks, Lorena!

Life begins at conception!

My personal goal is zero abortions worldwide as a result of zero unwanted pregnancies. Couples have to think about the consequences before having sex. Casual sex without clarity about contraception is irresponsible.

Good sex education will lead to good birth control measures (thank God Sarah Palin isn’t Vice President). We also need to fight religious dogmas that tell people not to use contraception.

I am against punishing women or doctors for having an abortion. Free societies can’t force women to have a baby against her will. But as I said earlier the goal should be it never comes to that. But if it does, women need all the help and support of society including good counseling.

So, I am against abortion and pro-choice.

I agree, Matt, and a big factor is also about making caring for children affordable and practical. You cannot work a minimum wage job and afford child care. The practicalities of having children can be a nightmarish hell for people barely subsisting.

Interesting position, Matt,
Fortunately as Zygotes we were not subject to
moral ambiguity hmmm…?

It’s interesting that no one (that I noticed, anyway) took into consideration that even when some women are on birth control and take it responsibly, they still get pregnant. Why should anyone, when taking all possible precautions in a situation like that, be forced to have a baby if it’s not what they want? Simple answer is that they shouldn’t.

@NaturalMineralWater: Slap a murder charge on people who get one? In a lot of states that automatically gets you the death penalty. But wait… That’s okay, right? To kill a fully formed human being isn’t a problem, but for a woman to get rid of something that has yet to even turn into a human being is something that’s unspeakable, right?

And who, exactly, would you slap the murder charge onto? The woman who maybe wanted to maintain the pregnancy but didn’t because her partner didn’t want her to? The 16-year-old girl who got pregnant by her rapist? The 14-year-old girl who was molested by her dad?

What about the partner of the woman who wanted her to get the abortion? What about the doctor who performed the abortion? What about the counselor who held the woman/girl’s hand through the procedure? The best friend who supported and consoled the woman through her decision? What about the desk clerk who works at the clinic? What about all the nurses who work at the clinic who are there to simply draw blood and check blood pressure?

But wait! We can’t forget about all the construction people who built the clinic – who are now directly involved in aiding murder! Or all of the people who work for all of the companies that supply the necessities for the clinic to run. Shit… While we’re at it we may as well slap a murder charge onto every employee the electric and sewer companies have, that supply the clinic with electricity and water! I mean, they were all involved with multiple murders, after all!

In the case of serious threat to the mothers health,
violation and/or incest the choice
is the mothers and without sin.

Not everyone believes in god, sorry.

Well, God believes in you…

And everyone else..

@AlfredaPrufrock @mattbrowne affordable and practical… the real problem is not about abortion, it’s about having control over one’s reproduction. With control goes responsibility, which is why the education of women is so desperately important. Education should include indoctrination in the idea of responsbililty for one’s body and for one’s reproductive behaviour. There must be better information about what is possible, and what is not; what is undesirable, and why; much, much better information of the realities of sexual activity in today’s world.

Why, in one of the world’s most prosperous and advanced nations, are women in minimum wage jobs still without income supports, such as are routine in, for example, Canada and France? Supports that take the form of ante- and post-natal care paid for by some sort of centralised scheme; maternity leave; job security; assistance with child care. And so forth. If the education of girls addressed the question of personal responsibility for one’s body, perhaps there would be a greater demand for these services. They are not favours: they are rights.

I think people are taking this question too seriously. It was meant tongue-in-cheek, and I’m sure we’re not meant to solve the actual abortion issue here.

Personally I am against abortion, but can accept that there are extreme circumstances where it should be allowed. I think the two clashing views often presented in the media are too extreme.

“Pro life” basically says that you have to keep the child, even if you’re a 12-year-old girl who was raped by her grandfather and is in risk of dying if she gives birth, whereas “pro-choice” says that you can use abortion as a contraception – even if you’re married, healthy and rich, and the only reason to have an abortion is that it will mess up your holiday plans as you don’t want to go to the beach with a big belly. I think people on both sides should look at the issue more pragmatically and find a compromise.

In cases of violation, incest, and/or the
mothers life seriously imperiled the mother
has the discretion without sin. (consequence.)

@Jack79 “pro-choice” says that you can use abortion as a contraception. That is not correct. Abortion becomes a substitute for planned parenting when there are no other alternatives. In the pro-choice world, abortion is but one of many options available to the woman.

I know of very few people who have had abortions that were not deeply impacted by the decision; I do know a lot of men and parents, who haven’t given their partner’s/child’s abortion a second thought. It’s generally only a “convenient solution” for people who aren’t the one who’s pregnant.

One alternative, to have a baby and put it up for adoption, is usually met by equal social vilification. Except by couples who would do anything to adopt a healthy infant because they cannot have their own.

Yes, Alfreda,

Adoption is a extremely viable option to
someone seriously considering abortion of
a life created by mutual(non-incestuous)consent.

While many children do get adopted, there are always far more available that never get placed. Using “adoption” as a reason against abortion only works if you are willing to take up the slack. If every person who is against abortion would pledge to raise the unwanted children, then I would see their right to say it, but with so many children going without adopted parents, it is an invalid argument.

Yarnlady, I respectfully disagree, evidently you do
not know your statistics. Nice avatar, BTW.
There are Thousands of nice couples waiting
for Years to adopt. Why do you think Chinese
babies and other countries adoptees come here
by the tens of thousands?

@Crusader I don’t where you get your statistics from. According to the U S Department of Health and Human Services on any particular day in the US there are over 100,000 children waiting for adoption and approximately 50,000 prospective parents. The older a child gets, the less likely he/she will ever be adopted, and new babies are entering the system every day. (that’s roughly 2 in, one out, every day)

The reason most people who adopt from other countries do so, and they are in the minority, is because they don’t meet the requirements for an adoption in the US, and it is usually easier and cheaper to get a child from overseas.

The adoption agencies in the US are working on changing this.

YarnLady,

Ah, that clarifies things. Relaxing the requirements
somewhat is the solution, then? That is encouraging.
My sister adopted from overseas and she is married
in a nice home, good credit, clean record, etc…
If she had difficulties, then the regulations certainly
need altering…

@Crusader – The view that a child conceived by rape or incest may be aborted without sin is hypocritical. If one is anti-abortion because it is a life from the moment of conception then why is one life less valuable than another. The life is innocent, had nothing to do with the rape or incest.

YarnLady,

My apologies if I sound abrasive,
yet I still believe that abortion
of a child conceived with mutual consent
should never be terminated.

rooneytoo,

I said without sin, not guilt.
This will likely be in any case…
Your point is quite understood, and I empathize.
However, I also empathize with the woman
who is married, or engaged,or single for that matter and is impregnated against her will. This is an act of violence.
She has the choice. God will not judge her
in this circumstance. The life is innocent,
but the circumstances of its conception are not.

Just because it is not a sin for the
mother to terminate in this case,
does not mean God loves the life any
less, the Christian God values all life…
Enough to relieve the mother of the reminder
of a shameful, painful, humiliating violation,
preserving her current family and/or that
or her future chosen family. Enough to
love the child if brought to term,
Enough to forgive the mother completely if not.

@Crusader It never ceases to amaze me that some people seem to have a direct line to a God and what he wants. The bible is self contractictory with most of the important parts, and is not a good authority. I refuse to believe in any God that allows 20,000 men, women and children starve to death every single day of the year, and two year old kids die of cancer.

I agree with your outrage about the current
callous state of the world, YarnLady, would
that the world collectively employed The Christian
God’s Law, we would not have these problems nearly
to the extent we do now. We are spiritual beings having
this relatively brief human experience, if we leave
this body it is for a reason, always. This is very
difficult to accept, particularly when coupled with
hypocrites, and tyrants distorting and convoluting
the Word. God has a plan for us All in the here and
now and in the hereafter. The devil, in any case,
as having authority over this world, will have his
victories, but they can be minimized…

@Crusader – you religious types always have an answer, it may not be a good answer, but you always have one and if you don’t, there is some preacher or someone who will make one up to suit the occasion.

Doesn’t it say somewhere in the bible to mind your own business, run your own life, the one without sin can throw the rocks, if you are without sin then do continue to tell the rest of us what this god thing wants from us, if you are not without sin, then fix your own life first before you tell me how to fix and lead mine.

Nothing that has been promoted in this thread has answered the main problem: that of unwanted pregnancies. If termination is not an option, and enforcement of a ban nearly impossible, then where are we going? From the point of view of public health, the only way to go is prevention; and that will only work if women and girls are enabled to determine how they may live their lives, including the right to control their bodies’ functions.

Rooeytoo,

Thank you for your thoughtful post. This posting had been
particularly difficult for me, strangely enough, the song
‘You are my baby, and I am your man…the power of Love..’
by Celine Deone kept pleying repeatedly after and during the
posts, I am not certain about that relevance, perhaps just
coincidence, but I am certain that you have a genuine
desire for truth, are a very loving individual, and
believe in accountability for yourself.

Yes, the bible does discuss the things you references, in part…It stipulates, ‘do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers,’ also, ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone,’ (pertaining to the stoning to death of an accused adulterer..yet we are All in sin after age seven, even if we haved lived a ‘spotless, pure life.’ Even observing a
person not a spouse with lust is such, among other things…)

That said, sin is unavoidable, consequently, No Woman
should be stoned to death…In terms of prothelization, this is but one of the many catagories of Christian, teachers, prophets, speakers of tongues, (I intepret literally as
another spoken language,) and apostles, each with their own degree of responsibility and accountability.

I am certainly not Perfect only He was, but I strive
to honor Him by discussing such things with anyone
who will listen, even the remotest softening of the
heart can allow for miracles to happen, I believe you
are on the verge of such an epiphany…Mine was the
birth of my child, and the nobility and honesty
of his mother, I strive every day to be worthy
of such a blessing. Though I had been introduced
to many believers previous to this, and for some
while after was wayward, and..sometimes even now
vaccillate, I continue to read the word, speak about to those who will have ears to hear and pray every day…and strive to be a better person each day…

It is not my intention to attempt to personally fix lives
but to provide testimonial and information for so
that they may allow Jesus into their heart and He
will beging the fixing…I am by no means qualified
to fix anyone, barely even myself…

You are not discussing, you are judging, telling others what is right and wrong by your standards. Mind your own business and set your own house in order before you begin on others.

I thought you were a woman, but of course not, you are a man who wants to control women, a recurrent christian theme.

@Crusader, is there some reason why you can’t punctuate?

@Crusader ditto @AlfredaPrufrock. I don’t agree with you, but I am still interested in reading what you have to say sometimes. Your writing style makes your posts pretty damn hard to read.

@bea2345 – “Nothing that has been promoted in this thread has answered the main problem: that of unwanted pregnancies.”

I beg to differ. Unpickable chastity belts would avoid unwanted pregnancies. : P

@fireside I see several suggestions to deal with unwanted pregnancies, adoption, prevention, and acceptance.

@YARNLADY – Yeah, I didn’t go back up to look, the thread got a little long-winded for me.

@fireside I have once again gotten the threads confused. My remark was at the quote in your answer

@YARNLADY – well,
the past few days
all the threads
look the same
if you know
what i mean

YardLady, Know that homosexual
Christian-Hating activists are the First
to cast the stone, and the Last
to accept resposibility,
There is a good reason why
This lifestyle is not embraced
by the rest of the world.
The world will burn around
then, yet as long as they
burn with Lust it is acceptable to them…
This would include many, if not most
of the participants in this, and
most online forums. They have no children,
but plenty of subsidies moneys and time
to justify their lives at the
expense of others.

I believe the good christian man is now resorting to insults and name calling, again very typical, ho hum.

PS Please don’t tell my husband I am really a gay man in disguise!

Are you expecting us to believe you?
Ah, we are all so honest online, right?

@YARNLADY – Most of the time it’s humanity itself allowing 20,000 men, women and children starve to death. Why are there human beings on Earth? Pressure of evolution. We evolved as a species because our ancestors were able to deal with challenges and crises. Take away the paradise (like climate change did more than 2 million years ago) and our ancestors had to come down the trees and explore uncharted territory. They survived because they developed language and other skills. Their brains kept growing. Natural disasters made humans smarter and stronger. Crisis is the mother of invention.

Today we actually have the technological means to eliminate hunger and even for most natural disasters we have the means to reduce fatalities drastically. The same applies to many diseases. We should not blame God, we should blame ourselves. And better ourselves.

@mattbrowne If all the resources of the world were distributed equally, there would a food equivalent of 2 bowls of rice per person. Many believers say that God decides who gets children and who doesn’t and that this same God never asks more of anyone than they can handle. Is this the same God that gives infants cancer. No, I can’t accept such a thing.

[mod says] Personal attacks are not permitted and have been removed.

@YARNLADY – The nature of the belief in God varies greatly. To me he’s the creator of the universe and the way it works. He does not get involved to undo certain things that are happening naturally. God doesn’t give particular infants cancer by direct intervention. The disease is part of life and nature. We humans have the means and the brains to do something about it. And we will. But I totally accept that your belief is different from mine.

@fireside Unhappily, there is no lock that cannot be picked and, just as a matter of interest, who dreamed up the chastity belt, anyway? Almost by definition, it cannot be safe, sanitary or even secure (google “chastity belt” to see some pictures). Seriously, the only policy that will work is prevention, not interdiction, or intervention – as we are now discovering with illegal drugs.

bea;
interdiction and intervention And prevention, as well
as dramitically increasing the penalties for drug distribution
(larger quantities,) can and will prevent such behavior
the reverse is employed by gov. in US now, a Get out of
Jail Free Card to all for the first offence, conseling
and a nice rehab environment…
Soundsgood in theory, but as long as one self-
declared ‘minority’ can profit from the demise and
immasculation of the ‘majority’ Anything goes for many
of the ‘minority’ -the expression, politics, (money, power,) makes strange bedfellows applies here.

@DrasticDreamer I apologize for not seeing your reply earlier.. I had stopped following this some time ago.

My response was intended to be candid but it’s roots sprout from real causticity toward the world itself. I dislike the lack of self discipline which often leads to becoming unexpectedly pregnant and I despise rapists (or forceful boyfriends or demanding husbands or whatever the case may be) for putting women in a situation where they are pregnant against their will.

I consider creating a human life to be something sacred and beautiful.. and when created by accident these days it is such a convenient answer to just erase it from existence. To me it removes some of the beauty and sanctity from the whole idea..

That’s one man’s humble and old fashioned opinion. If it offended you I am sorry.

@NaturalMineralWater – when created by accident… But this is rather like treating a sore with plaster when what the patient needs is treatment for the underlying disease. Abortion is not a problem; it never was. The problem always was how to prevent the perceived need for it, and solutions are few and difficult. Forbidding the procedure simply has not worked.

And furthermore, whence came this idea (implicit in some of the posts) that the emancipation of women is a gateway to immorality? Perhaps it is because men’s conduct is not encouraging.

@bea2345 I have no idea where you’re coming from with that. I said nothing about the emancipation of women being a gateway to immorality and I agreed that some men have conduct that isn’t “encouraging”.. in fact I used the word “despise”. Could you explain?

@NaturalMineralWater – I was not replying to you, but to @Crusader and, at the same time, I was musing on the implications of the phrase when created by accident… Actually, I agree with you, but I have a less jaundiced view of humankind.

@bea2345 Thanks for clearing that up. Though I think my “jaundice” reflects reality. xD