Do you believe that the IRS is a legit government entity and that you have to pay Federal Income Taxes?
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DREW_R (
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April 19th, 2009
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55 Answers
The IRS is nothing but a job factory
Seriously..
They appear to be laundering huge sums of money into foreign banks, mostly in Europe, and quite possibly into the Vatican. See the national policy on money laundering at 31 U.S.C. 5341.
I’m taking that link seriously.
It’s legitimate because it’s been legitimized by a vast majority of americans who’ve paid their taxes since its institution. So, yes.
Do I have to pay income taxes? I don’t have to, but then I’d go to jail, if they ever figure it out or find me.
I want to, because I like having roads, a military, a police force, schools, libraries, a social safety net (unemployment, social security), etc.
But federal vs. state? I am ideologically for state power over federal power, so long as the military remains at the federal level
Paranoia about the IRS? unfounded. It seems to be conservative talking point right now, even though our taxes will be lower than it’s been under Bush. I won’t bother with your link because as @johnpowell describes it, it sounds like conspiracy theory
I really am not sure of how to reply to these types of questions anymore. I just feel like the askers could always use a good hug. The world is not out to get you… I swear.
I’m going with @upholstry on this one.
I have enough trouble sleeping worrying about real problems.
Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
@auqustian: You sure?
Legal? yes. Constitutional? no. Does one have to pay? Consider the consequences.
The only way to put an end to federal income tax is if hundreds of thousands of people get in sync and stop paying all at once. Individually, it has no power or effect. A couple million tax protesters would be ideal. Will it ever happen? I doubt it. You’d have more success herding cats, given the nature of people in general.
I don’t mind paying taxes for the benefits listed by upholstry, but I’d be happier if everyone would pay their fair share.
I also think that people who sign up for welfare should have to pass a drug test, since I had to pass one to get my job.
My view of the Federal Reserve and our economy is that it is a ponzi scheme. In most ponzi schemes, people are willing to enter on their own, because they think they are going to get a good return on investment.
The Federal Reserve was created in 1913, as was the IRS.
What better way to keep a ponzi scheme going than by forcing people to buy into it via income taxes?
@evelyns_pet_zebra
I think it is quite unfair to mandate that one has to pass a drug test, because you willingly gave up your fourth amendment right to privacy.
Schools can not randomly drug test kids, because its a violation of their fourth amendment, right to privacy. Employers get away with it because you can go elsewhere to find work. Its kinda a catch 22 because drug testing is becoming more and more prevalent, so it is getting to the point where there will be no more choice, but to waive our 4th amendment right.
We need to stop expecting others to give up their rights, because some are willing to give them up without even thinking about it.
As @Yetanotheruser says, the IRS is legal. It is not, however, constitutional. And just see what happens if you refuse to pay what the IRS thinks you owe.
The fact that we are billions of dollars in the red is Bush’s fault because we had a surplus when he took over, thanks to Clinton. It can be done; we can have a government that is not a black hole. But it will take pressure from the voters.
If we are going to go that route consider that “money” and “ownership” are concepts based on a subjective, collective illusion.
Oh, come on. I’m with augustlan.
That link is bullshit. Federal income tax revenue doesn’t fund any government services? Give me a break. The IRS is a bureau of the Department of Treasury designated to collect any taxes levied by law. So that the government can operate. It is not some scheme to take all of your money and give it to the Vatican. Government runs on taxes. If you don’t like that, move to North Korea. No income tax there.
Everyone knows all the worlds governments are controlled by an organization known as “The Pentaverate”. And they operate in large part thanks to the financial support of Col. Sanders. They meet at a secret lodge known as “The Meadows”.~
@Yetanotheruser
If it isn’t Constitutional then it is illegal. The Constitution is the law. The 16th Amendment was never truely ratified by 2/3’s or 3/4’s of the states legislatures.
@DREW_R I believe the only test for constitutionality is the court. Theoretically, I agree with you, but since it has not made it to the Supreme Court for the test, I think it can be legal without being constitutional.
Google Aaron Russo’s (yes, that Aaron Russo) “America: From Freedom to Fascism.”
P.S. It’s not as militant as the title might suggest. Tamer than Michael Moore, in fact.
@eponymoushipster The names you have given are incorrect. I assume it is for purposes of secrecy? The real names can be found here and here
@Darwin According to the news, there are thousands of people who do not file tax returns and do not pay taxes, and they get away with it.
@YARNLADY – Eventually they do get caught. My husband was one such person (although I didn’t know it when I married him). The IRS found him and they find most others who don’t file. The only way not to be found is never get a real job (gotta be paid in cash or barter only), never pay into Social Security or apply for it, never have a bank account, never apply for a loan or a credit card or anything that would expose your “tax payer id” to those who keep track of such things.
Most of us aren’t willing to live that far off the grid to be able to do that.
Now those who file their tax returns but who figure out how to avoid paying any taxes at all are playing in a whole different ball game. Those folks are why the tax code is so darn complicated. They find a loophole and exploit it and the IRS tries to close it.
The IRS is definitely not a government agency. You should red The Creature from Jekyll Island. It was written in the late 80’s I think. But it’s predicting everything that has been happening lately. Paying income taxes was supposed to be temporary. Thanks, W. Wilson. Our government cannot continue to tax its people to pay for things in a socialist manner. It’s not working. The US government and the IRS are some shady, shady characters. Seriously, read the book. It’s about 900 pages, but it’s worth it. You will cringe every tax season, guaranteed.
@Darwin No, they don’t all get caught, and when they do, nothing happens to them. The tax office actually said that they barely have enough money to process the tax returns they receive, much less try to go after the ones who don’t pay. And when they do “catch” them, the lawyers usually work the cases out to a few pennies on the dollar.
The number one tax cheater on the California list has not paid taxes in over 10 years (exact number not available) and he says that he was taken to court a few years ago, doesn’t remember exactly when, pleaded guilty, agreed to make restitution, and never “got around to it”. he owes in the neighborhood of $93 million dollars.
The guy who invented selling priest documents so you could use religion as an excuse not to pay was caught after about 10 years of getting away with it, convicted, and sentenced. He was then released, because the prisons don’t have room or money to house non-violent offenders. He is now back to the same business as before, and is still convincing people it’s legal.
Correction: $93 million = $9.9 million.
@DREW_R: Could you please link me to a source that backs your outlandish claim that the 16th Amendment was not ratified by three-fourths of the states (the amount needed to amend the Constitution – I’m not sure why you included two-thirds)?
Please don’t use Benson as a source. There’s a reason he’s in jail.
@DREW_R that site is not a legal or official site of any sort. I could put up a site like that myself, only mine says “A call to the IRS elicited the following official statement: “The courts have … rejected claims that the Sixteenth Amendment was not properly ratified … In Porth v. Brodrick, 214 F.2d 925 (10th Circuit 1954), the court dismissed an attack on the Sixteenth Amendment as being ‘clearly unsubstantial and without merit,’ as well as ‘far fetched and frivolous.’”
@YARNLADY
Well then, why don’t you look into it as they challenge at the bottom of this page? Interesting chart too with the problems with the Radification by state and explained below the chart. ;)
http://political-resources.com/taxes/16thamendment/default.htm
Of course the courts will try and keep it. They get paid $25K-$35K to make the illegal convictions. That I can believe too.
I ain’t fer sure Drewster.
@DREW_R I think you mean ratification, not radification. At any rate, it is at least as legal as the Florida votes that were declared in favor of Bush in his last election. In the long run, the ability to put people in jail is legal authority enough, isn’t it?
@DREW_R check out the link I posted. The “16th amendment was never ratified!” lunacy is one of the idiocies I mentioned as it debunking. Oh, and it quotes actual sources too.
@DREW_R The constitution provides the most basic laws, the foundation of our laws. It does not provide every law. As long as a law doesn’t actually contradict the constitution, it’s perfectly valid and legal. If your theory of “It’s not in the constitution, therefore it’s illegal” was true, laws prohibiting murder would be invalid, and we’d all be perfectly free to kill our neighbors and coworkers.
It’s been proven that the IRS is in fact run by aliens who are using the data to find test subjects. If you meet the right criteria, they will take you aboard their flying saucers and perform experiments on you, often of a sexual nature. However, if you wrap your return in tinfoil before you mail it in, it will fool the equipment and you will be safe.
@chris6137 so when someone gets welfare, which is paid by the tax dollars of working folks, they can blithely collect money and yet, continue to live a drug-fueled lifestyle at the taxpayer’s expense? I’m not saying all people on welfare are cheats, or are doing illegal drugs, but a percentage of them are. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. To get financial help from the govt and continue to do illegal activities is wrong. If I as a tax payer have to follow the rules, then why doesn’t everybody that pays little or no tax? I said nothing about school kids; I’m talking about adults. You give up your right to privacy when you break the law. I still stand by my opinion.
if Fluther were a building, I would run screaming from it right now
@cprevite if fluther was a building, i’d take someone out behind it and get her pregnant.
@MrItty
The Constitution provides the guide lines and laws for our government to operate. The rest is left up to the states. The federal government is over stepping it’s bounds. The Left wing liberals want to make our Republic a socialist/Marxist state and the frigging Right Wing wants to make us a religiouse extremist camp. I am for neither. I am for the Republic by the Constitution as was ment and piss on the rest.
Obama wants to put us in Jack Boots while Bush just wanted to rule us. Both are bullshit. I can rule myself and do not need either the socialist shit nor the dictater shit. That is not what this country was founded on.
@YARNLADY Only if we wish to be a nation of sheep which goes against the true American spirit of independence.
@evelyns_pet_zebra Here’s an even worse story than drugs on welfare: If you become incapacitated enough through drug or alcohol use, you are eligible to receive disability benefits from the government.
remember on Green Acres whenever the main guy would start making a speech, they’d play The Battle Hymn of the Republic?
I could have sworn I asked you not to use Benson as a source, due to the fact that he has been proven to be fraudulent.
See this authoritative article that refutes all the anti-IRS nonsense.
It’s illegal to not pay your taxes. Though there is still debate about the 16th amendment, I believe that if the government says you’re going to go to jail for not paying, it’s illegal. I don’t believe it was properly ratified. Just because it was “deemed” ratified by the SOS, especially anyone working under Woodrow Wilson, doesn’t mean to me that it was ratified properly. He just deemed it so? Lame… if the proper number of states didn’t pass it, then it’s not valid. Just because some government official suddenly says it’s been passed, doesn’t mean it was. Doesn’t this seem shady to anyone else? You should really read The Creature from Jekyll Island if you really want to know. It gives you a shocking look at the IRS and what it REALLY is.
Or, you could consider the fact that 36 state legislatures passed resolutions declaring their ratification of the amendment.
@lefteh : That’s the part that’s still debated. I don’t agree or disagree because I don’t know what really happened. All I know is that the whole thing went down in a highly shady manner. I just can’t get on board with something that was not going to pass, but eventually was just confirmed as passed. It doesn’t seem right to me.
It’s debated amongst conspiracy theorists and Ron Paul fanatics.
Or anyone who is skeptical of their government. Still, it’s debated, and with valid merit.
I disagree that there is valid merit for the debate. There is record of all 36 states passing those resolutions. The argument that they did not do so, and that Knox simply said that they did, is quite absurd, in my opinion.
@ubersiren How can the liberals be such idiots? It surely baffles me.
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