Even if there is a god why would his opinions on the univere be seen as ultimately correct?

Supreme copyright laws?

It kind of does. I mean, if I write a story, what I say about it is really not an opinion. It’s fact. Other people can have different opinions about what the story means. But they’re wrong.

@MacBean
What something means is different, like the example you gave, but I couldn’t say what things can do.

@hiiiiiiii I don’t think I understand. Say, for the sake of this discussion, that God created the universe and there’s no question about it. It’s His creation. He made everything in it, and all of the rules. So which of His thoughts/feelings/ideas would be opinions? Even if He started off having the sky blue, if He suddenly wanted it to be green, it would be. You could go on thinking it was blue if you really wanted to but you would be wrong.

@hiiiiiiii I would like to engage in the question, but since I suspect every question you make is a part of your trolling crap, I won’t. @MacBean is trying honestly to discuss this. I suggest you show some respect, and stop leading people around with curious responses.

One of the defining characteristics of the Judaeo-Christian God is that he is omniscient. Therefore it stands to reason that all of his opinions (although this does leave God rather anthropomorphised) are ultimately correct.
Of course, we then have to deal with the ‘Inconsistent Triad’ and ‘The Problem of Evil’, but we’ll leave that for another day.

@oratio: Am I feeding a troll? I don’t think I’ve noticed any of this user’s other questions or answers before. Oops!

@MacBean He was trolling before. Maybe he shaped up. His other hiiiii account got closed.

@MacBean

What if God simply held opinions? If God doesn’t really like bananas, does that mean that bananas don’t taste good?

@Ivan I’d think if God didn’t like bananas, He would change the taste of them so that He did. Unless He just wanted to mess with people. (Which I definitely think He does sometimes, if He exists.)

I think the answer is because He made it, and the One who makes something knows it best.

@MacBean

But the taste of bananas is subjective. Let’s say that God does make every food taste good to him. Now God loves bananas, but I don’t. Am I inherently wrong? Or do I just share a difference in trivial opinion?

It depends on your perception of God. It would seem that you are attempting to perceive God as some sort of equal, confined to a set of unspoken rules that govern us…merely the author of a book. If you go on thinking that God is an equal than you can associate all manner of humanistic traits to Him. If you go on thinking that He is fallible than you can question His judgment, His creation, His ways and His “opinions”.

If, on the other hand, you believe God is infallible than just think about it. God looked on His creation and saw that it was good. Whether God prefers bananas or not is irrelevant (that is, again, attributing humanistic traits to Him). The whole of His creation He called good. He is a divinity. Capable of having always existed. Capable of creating something out of nothing. Capable of divine perception of reality.. not limited by human imagination. His “opinions” are all correct because He is infallible.

@NaturalMineralWater so if god is infallible, then that means the platypus turned out that way because god wanted it too? I would assume that the platypus is what happens when deities create beings after a three-day bender.

Quite simply, they aren’t. There is no “god’s eye view” of the universe, because everything is relative. Any being from Archaea to whatever deity may exist is subject to my judgements. If I deem them to be worthy of it, I will agree with them. If not, then I will not. The only thing I can be certain of is my philosophical ‘frame of reference’. Anything else is subject to my judgements.

@Ivan I dont think God would make bananas to his liking, but since he made them, he can choose whether or no he likes them. (think frankenstein)

@Ivan—YOU ARE WRONG.~ No, I just don’t have an answer since I am, in fact, not God. (You’re shocked, right? I figured it out in my early teens and it just about knocked my socks off.) If He’s out there, though, and I ever get to talk to Him, I’m definitely going to inquire about His feelings on bananas.

@evelyns_pet_zebra—The platypus is my evidence for thinking God (if He exists) just wants to mess with us.

go go Gadget Ivan.

I’m personally a huge fan of bananas… but to the point.

mind you I’m not a man of faith.

But here’s what was essentially shoved down my throat through catholic school.

God can do anything he wants, shut up and deal with it. As you can obviously guess this didn’t go a long way in convincing me to like the notion of Divinity.

Here’s my question. God made man in his image(allegedly). So how far in his image were we created? Is it a purely aesthetic resemblance, but having absolutely no connection with him/her/it in a spiritual manner? Does god have a psychi? a personality? fears? excitement? etc? Or is it something we can not comprehend because he’s just an ass like that? And if we truely are unable to understand God, why would he make a people that could never fully understand their creator? it seems like faulty programming.
And Why, if he’s the never dulling compassionate, would he create creatures so obviously less than him? a power trip? suddenly the all mighty is beginning to show a very human side, wouldn’t you think?

That’s where, I think, creationism has it’s faults. Tell me why an all loving god would want to create a people that are so feeble and pathetic compared to Him? The only logical reason would be an ego boost. If god has no ego though, why wouldn’t he make humanity a little more respectable?

We are talking about more important things than the taste of bananas!! I think in things that matter, God is the ultimate judge of what is best because He knows more about it than anyone else.

@Harold

Often the best way to examine a claim is to find contradictions to it, no matter how trivial or strange they may be.

@Harold We are asking if God is the ultimate judge. We cannot “leave it to God”, because we are asking if he is worth of leaving things to.

It is important to consider the possibility of a maniacal, tyrannical deity. Would we be correct in opposing such a deity, or would we be sinning because we are not aligned with their will? What if God is real, but just as inherently flawed as us humans? Would he then be worth worshipping?

@MacBean Regarding your first post, have you hear of “death of the author”? Any written text takes on a form and meaning in the minds of its readers, quite separate from the intention of the author. This does not make it ‘wrong’, just a different facet of appreciation.

@FireMadeFlesh Yes, which is why I said people are free to think whatever they want of the story, take whatever they need to take from it, et cetera.

@MacBean Yes, they can think what they want of it, but disagreeing with the author doesn’t make them outright wrong.

@FireMadeFlesh But it does make them not as right as the author.

@MacBean The point I am trying to make, is that there is no right. The author’s intention is not correct, the author’s interpretation is not correct, the publisher’s interpretation is not correct, and the readers’ interpretation is not correct. Right and wrong are meaningless terms unless you have an absolute frame of reference. You can have legal right and wrong, because the law is an absolute frame of reference. You cannot have right and wrong to do with a religion, or a book, or any art form, because there is no absolute frame of reference. The terms are meaningless, and what we commonly judge to be ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ in these matters is simply the result of the weight of numbers.

@FireMadeFlesh Okay. Neither of us is going to change the other’s opinion here, so I’m not going to keep arguing it. I do get what you’re saying. I just disagree, maybe because I write. If I write a story and mean it completely at face value—if it’s just supposed to be a narrative meant to entertain—then that is what it is. You can see it as allegory and get some hidden meaning out of it if you want to. If that’s how you read it, that’s great, especially if it makes some kind of difference in your life. But, still, in my eyes, you are not as right as someone who takes it as face value, the way I meant it.

Edit: And, actually, this is why when I share my writing with my friends, I don’t tell them what I meant by it. I want them to take whatever they can from it, without feeling like they’re missing my point. It’s just that… sometimes they do.

@MacBean I don’t argue to change your mind, I argue to understand your mind. Thank you for your interesting points. One last question though: Alice and Bob look at an artwork painted by an elephant (or a monkey, as the case may be) without knowing that the painter was not human. Alice concludes one interpretation, and Bob another. Who is right?

If we extrapolate this to religion, the original purpose of this question, we are all making judgements on the world without any conclusive evidence that there is an author, and who that author is. Without that knowledge, how can we determine who is right (seeing as you appear to believe there is an absolute)?

@FireMadeFlesh Clearly, we need to invent technology to read elephants’ minds! :D

Actually, I think not being able to get the creator’s opinion makes it even more fun/interesting, and I think if God exists, this is why He isn’t like, “Hey, dumbasses! Here I am! I’m real, and the meaning of life is 42!” Unless the message people are taking from your creation is to become a serial killer or something like that, creators should let people believe what they want and not point out those who are “not as right,” in my opinion.

If there is an absolute (and it does sound like that’s what I believe, but I’m not sure, because this is the first time I’ve ever thought about this in this much detail, and with someone challenging me instead of just nodding agreement) I don’t think it matters very much. I think the different interpretations are more important.

Does this make any sense? It’s 6 AM and I’ve been awake for a very long time.

@MacBean Duh, of course! All we need is an fMRI scanner big enough for an elephant’s head, and a restraint!

Actually the greatest epiphany leading to my atheism was the realisation, through other complex ideas, that if there is a deity the fact of their existence is unimportant. They would be irrelevant, as I judge things by my own standards, and I think I am entirely justified in doing so. Therefore every religion that encourages knowledge of and interaction with their deity is misleading, as it doesn’t matter if he/she/it exists or not.

I believe that the only absolutes are those based on science. They can be debated by postmodern philsophers, but since we must work within the framework of our perceived reality scientific observation and theorising is as to absolute fact as we will ever get. Everything else is relative, subjective and incapable of being right or wrong. But that’s just me, and I may be wrong. Sorry, couldn’t help myself there!!

@ Ivan- I have no problem with that theory. However, you can’t argue away something real by trivialising it!!

@ FMF- I know that is the question, and I am saying that He is the ultimate judge, because He is in a position to be that, as He knows more than anyone else about things because He made them all.

You may be asking if there is a possibility of a tyrannical God, but the answer to that is no, there is no possibility. He reveals Himself to be anything but like that. And He DOES reveal Himself. Obviously if He was flawed, it would be pointless in obeying Him, but the reality is that He is not flawed.

@Harold You speak with assumed authority. How do you know what he is like?

Because He has shown me. Quite simple really.

The only opinion that matters is yours. What God thinks or does’nt think does’nt matter at all.

I don’t picture God as a person with opinions.

i don’t know. i like musicians, because they often leave their music up to interpretation. while there’s an original intent of the piece, they usually don’t have an – excuse the pun – god complex and believe that theirs is the only correct perspective.

but the opinions we say god has are often a matter of our own opinions in a way too. people tend to apply their own bias to what they read in the bible.