Should I overlook physical flaws?

Just be honest with her.

This is going to be one of those distinctly polarised questions. It will be interesting to see the response.

Actually, physical attraction isn’t that important to a lot of people. Of course we notice things and might have some preferences, but it is up to each individual how much they let those preferences influence their interaction and relationships with other people.

I think if her weight is that big of deal, you should either call it off or flat out tell her that you will not be attracted to her unless she loses some weight. Honesty is the best policy, whether you’re being honest with yourself or someone else.

I would let her know how you feel. Is a little bit of chunky-ness worth parting ways over? Do her other assets “out weigh” the flab? Would you find yourself missing her if she was not around? Maybe she is not happy with her physical appearance. Maybe she will tell you to go F* yourself. Who knows. You’re obviously not happy with it… that’s not good for anyone. If it’s such as new thing roll the dice and see, let her know what’s up or not up ;)

_
You’d better be honest that you are more comfortable not taking the relationship to a physical place, she’ll get it. One of the things I think is is a huge problem in people’s relationships is a feeling of having to be accepting and PC about physical things, dancing around an obvious part of human nature and that’s most humans are instinctively sexually attracted to fit partners. Why the hell do people have to justify that?

I just don’t see how this is something anyone else can answer for you.

After dating a big girl, I’ve become attracted to both large and small body types, and I’m glad I have an appreciation for both. Most of the time, I don’t care what size they are (within reason) so long as they’re not so much a pain in the ass to deal with. I’m sure that’s not how most guys think, but I find it pretty liberating.

But hey, if that’s not you’re thing, there’s some other guy out there who will probably be happy to sop up her gravy with his bread.

@kevbo best/ grossest analogy ever!! All sorts of interesting mental images are coming to mind

If you begin a relationship by making an important compromise, those compromises will keep building. It is unlikely that a relationship built on compromise will last, at least not happily. You would not believe how many men I have provided sex for who are fully virile with me, but need Viagra to perform with their wives. Their wives are not capable of turning them on. I really believe that most men who need Viagra have nothing wrong with them that a sexier wife couldn’t cure. Viagra is a drug to improve sex for women, not men.

@Midnight_Blue You sleep with married men? No offense, but you’re the last person in the world I’d be taking relationship advice from, unless the wives of the men you slept with knew about it and had no problem with it. But I think that’s unlikely.

And some men actually need Viagra. Just because the men you slept with were unhappy in their relationships does not mean that there’s no such thing as erectile dysfunction.

@Midnight_Blue Are we to discern from your response that you are both; plus sized and a lady of the night?

@Midnight_Blue re we to discern from your response that you are both; plus sized and a lady of the night?

I can’t see how you could possibly derive an impression of plus sized from my comment. If men come from an overweight wife to me, looking for sex that would hardly make sense. I work very hard to keep myself in perfect shape, it is how I make a living. And yes, I am a call girl. it is in my profile. Don’t bother discussing it, it is my choice and it is working for me.

For comparison, see the answers to this question about a woman wanting to dump a guy over a physical attribute. Noticeably different tenor to the answers, I think.

@DrasticDreamer

>Just because the men you slept with were unhappy in their relationships does not mean
> that there’s no such thing as erectile dysfunction.

Yes there is erectile dysfunction, in many cases caused by the expectation of a sexually unattractive woman. My experience is not unique, many men who need drug enhancement to perform with wives do fine unaided when with a sexually desirable woman. The popularity of performance enhancing drugs parallels the increase in obesity. Has that escaped your notice?

@Midnight_Blue In many cases, maybe. Provide the actual statistics and I’ll believe it. But in many other cases, men can not perform, no matter how sexually attracted to someone they are, without the aid of a drug such as Viagra.

Keep in mind that “sexually desirable” varies from one person to another. It’s not one set ideal.

Considering how visually oriented men are, if you already know you don’t want to see her with her clothes off I’d say it’s definitely doomed to fail. I would strongly advise against telling her your specific feelings on this. Speaking from the perspective of someone who is not conventionally attractive to begin with and needs to lose some weight, I would be extremely devastated if someone I thought was into me told me I just wasn’t ‘good enough’ in the appearance dept. People that don’t fit the mold of what’s considered attractive often have issues with self-esteem – why exacerbate that by saying something so blunt and ultimately unnecessary, in terms of an explanation why you want to end the relationship? If you do choose to end it, a kinder thing to say would be “I just don’t feel the spark” or something along those lines.

A pin prick is much better than a knife stab, ya dig? :)

@DrasticDreamer

>Keep in mind that “sexually desirable” varies from one person to another.
>It’s not one set ideal.

I see. When can I expect to see the sales of sexually oriented magazines featuring fat or otherwise unattractive women meet those of conventionally accepted sexy women?

@Midnight_Blue: VERY NSFW: but you asked…

www.bbwmagazine.com
www.plumpgirlsworld.com
www.bbwplanet.com

… and that’s just the first few generated from google.

Just look around, there are bigger women everywhere. EVERYWHERE!! I am one of them. I know we are not the “ideal” for all, but everyone has their own personal tastes. A lot of the men I know do not like to be “poked” with bones while they are having sex. And there are those who do not like to be enveloped in flab…. everyone has their kicks.

Secondly, I did not generate any negative connotations towards your chosen “profession” it was just a question. I do not make a habit of reading profiles before I read answers.

@Midnight_Blue Are you kidding? If it was one set ideal, only one hair color would be sexy, only a specific height sexy, only one eye color, one skin color, etc. Obviously, that is not the case.

@Midnight_Blue: I am sure that you will be the first to acknowledge that there are many factors that contribute to erectile dysfunction and that the unsexiness of a given man’s partner is, at best, a fraction of the picture.

For instance, this article published in the Journal of Urology in 1999 concludes: Erectile dysfunction is a common condition associated with aging, chronic illnesses and various modifiable risk factors. Normal penile erection is a hemodynamic process that is dependent on corporal smooth muscle relaxation mediated by parasympathetic neurotransmission, nitric oxide, and possibly other regulatory factors and electrophysiological events.

Here’s an article from the New England Journal of Medicine published in 2000 that states that erectile dysfunction: may result from psychological, neurologic, hormonal, arterial, or cavernosal impairment or from a combination of these factors.

I am not clear on your statement that “The popularity of performance enhancing drugs parallels the increase in obesity.” Do you mean that the popularity of performance-enhancing drugs has paralleled the increase in these men’s wives’ obesity? If so, I’d like to point out that you would probably see a much tighter correlation between the wife’s weight gain and the husband’s. This paper finds that “hypertension is associated with severe erectile dysfunction”, and this paper finds that total cholesterol and high density lipoprotein cholesterol are important predictors of erectile dysfunction. (Hypertension, cholesterol, and HDL cholesterol specifically are all directly correlated with obesity. These studies are referring to the obesity of the men experiencing erectile dysfunction…not their wives.)

So I have to ask—why are you being so antagonistic?

@nikipedia >So I have to ask—why are you being so antagonistic?

Freely expressing an opinion gained from empirical experience and tertiary training is being antagonistic?

You are arguing against something I have not said. I made no claim that all erectile dysfunction is not based in genuine physiological areas, just that those guys who still have a strong enough sex drive to go looking, have no problem. They tend to make a big issue of not needing drugs, it is their claim, not mine.

I really believe that among those who are not old or ill, the drugs are needed to combat a lack of sexual turn-on from their wife or partner.

@Midnight_Blue That or they have unrealistic expectations of how women should look. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes naturally. Or maybe the men are such assholes in the first place that their wives have no desire to try and turn them on. They are cheating on their wives, after all. That tends to scream “asshole”, in my opinion.

@DrasticDreamer

>That or they have unrealistic expectations of how women should look.

This is the attitude that I find difficult to understand. Physical attraction is not an expectation, it is not controllable, it is not modifiable. It just is.

@Midnight_Blue: Nope, the way in which you have chosen to do it is antagonistic. I read some unprovoked antagonism in these comments:

I can’t see how you could possibly derive an impression of plus sized from my comment.
Don’t bother discussing it, it is my choice and it is working for me.
Has that escaped your notice?

You clearly have a unique and valuable perspective given your unusual career choice. I think that by being so abrasive and closed-off to other people’s opinions, you are closing them off to yours, which is unfortunate for all parties.

@nikipedia

> I read some unprovoked antagonism in these comments:

You and I have very different reading skills. I prefer mine. The comment about how earn my living is not antagonistic, it is just warning that I am not interested in discussing it.

Still, if you want to view me as antagonistic, then fill your boots. It has little effect on me.

@Midnight_Blue Physical attraction is not an expectation? Tell me… Why do you work so hard to keep yourself in “perfect” shape, then? If it wasn’t modifiable as you say, then you would not try to physically modify your body in order to be in “perfect” shape.

@DrasticDreamer

>Physical attraction is not an expectation? Tell me… Why do you work so hard to keep yourself in “perfect” shape, then?

Where have I landed? Kindergarten?

I work hard to make myself attractive, both for my own satisfaction and to increase my value, that has nothing to do with an individual’s inability to change whatever expectation they have regarding sexual desirability.

@Midnight_Blue Why kindergarten? What was wrong with my question? It was an honest one. People can change their expectations regarding attraction – it happens all the time. Why do you think “ideal” beauty has fluctuated so often throughout history? If it was set, it would have always remained the same.

@DrasticDreamer

The kindergarten comment was regarding the fact that you relate my efforts to look attractive with a comment about another person’s inability to change their expectations of sexual desirability. The two have no relationship to each other.

People’s expectations change over time, but they don’t sit down one day and change them, the changes that occur are a response to experience, not a conscious decision.

Polite discourse please. Defensive knee-jerk comments go against the spirit of this site, or so I hoped (I’m new here).

@Midnight_Blue Like I said earlier, people generally have slight preferences, but expectations can be lowered or lifted, to varying degrees.

@FutureMemory Defensive knee-jerk comments go against the spirit of this site,

What did I miss? Who is the “defensive knee” jerk?

@DrasticDreamer but expectations can be lowered or lifted, to varying degrees.

I don’t think so. You can’t look at so much a photograph that you don’t find sexually appealing and make a decision to “raise or lower” your expectation and suddenly find that it appeals. You certainly can’t when it is a real life person.

You can make a decision to accept or try to ignore something that you don’t like, but you can’t change your basic instinct, the thing that controls attraction.

@DarkScribe I disagree. Love, for instance, can be a factor. I’m not talking about falling in love with someone and deciding to overlook something, I’m talking about falling in love with someone and actually becoming more physically attracted to them. It is real and it can happen. I know from personal experience.

@DrasticDreamer _I’m talking about falling in love with someone and actually becoming more physically attracted to them. _

I fully agree, but that is common once you get to know someone – it has little bearing on initial attraction, the thing that is often required to get you together in the first place.
Less attractive people are more likely to fall in love after being in a situation where they get to know each other, not at first sight across a room. The love is still valid.

There are many people who remain together because they are in love, but who don’t find each other attractive. It is commonplace. Being in love does lend itself to the “Rose coloured Glasses” effect, but those glasses still have limits.

It is like tastes in other areas. Being in love can make you more accepting, but it won’t make you like it. My wife’s only flaw is that she smokes. I don’t, I intensely dislike smoking and aside from her, I won’t accept it from anyone. I have changed my acceptance for her, I have not changed my feeling about the issue.

@DarkScribe In terms of looks, when in love, it’s not even about acceptance. I’m not talking about putting up with something that you might not otherwise.

What about people who don’t have physical preferences? I couldn’t tell you my “type” regarding looks, because I do not have one. Maybe I should change my stance to say that only some people can change their expectations, because I do not believe that many people are willing to. They are picky and look for “perfect”, whatever version of it they may seek.

Anyway, regardless of whether I’m right or wrong (and I’m completely willing to admit that I could be wrong), my original point was to say that there is not one set ideal, as Midnight_Blue was implying.

Blah. I’m tired and not at my best after Finals. I apologize if I either seem cranky or like a moron.

@DrasticDreamer my original point was to say that there is not one set ideal, as Midnight_Blue was implying.

I don’t see her as implying that, just that there was a popular preference for people who are not fat.

Your tastes do change, I used to prefer very tall slim, small breasted, “Voguish” women, but my wife is definitely more Playboy than Vogue. I adapted. (It wasn’t hard to do;) )

I have had several experiences with changing perception, more than once in my life (pre-marriage) meeting a woman who I found distinctly unattractive and after getting to know her, finding her very desirable. It was not a decision, it just happened – usually with someone who I was working with and in constant daily contact.

“When can I expect to see the sales of sexually oriented magazines featuring fat or otherwise unattractive women meet those of conventionally accepted sexy women?”

That implies that she believes it will never happen. It has happened before and it will probably happen again. What is “conventional”, besides something that is not and never has been static in terms of beauty? From what I get out of her tone, she doesn’t seem to believe it. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong and I’ll be glad to drop it.

@DrasticDreamer That implies that she believes it will never happen

She says “meet” the sales of… not that no magazines feature overweight or otherwise unconventionally attractive women. There definitely are girly magazine that feature large women or those with big backsides.

Ask her.

@DarkScribe I wasn’t calling anyone a jerk :) “knee-jerk” as in automatic; lacking sincere attempt to understand someone’s point of view. Something like that anyway.

@DarkScribe Last time I asked her a question she likened it to kindergarten and we got nowhere. sigh

@DrasticDreamer

>That implies that she believes it will never happen

I can’t see any possibility of overweight women ever being more sexually popular than the current convention. Not just in magazines, but movies and TV shows, the women who are overweight are generally either in bit parts or comedic roles. I do not deny that some men, very few men, prefer fat women. They do exist, but would hardly be the type to approach me.

@Midnight_Blue Have you ever heard of the Renaissance period? No, this is not antagonistic, it is a genuine question. That is just one period of time in which overweight and plump women were considered far more beautiful than today’s standards. It has happened many times before, it can definitely happen again.

@FutureMemory knee-jerk” as in automatic; lacking sincere attempt to understand someone’s point of view.

That isn’t really what “Knee jerk” means, it means an instant unconsidered response, nothing to with understanding the issue, just with not giving an appropriate response. . You can easily understand someone’s point of view if they have a good command of language, appreciating it is something altogether different.

Few adults will be swayed on major issues, debate is seldom won in real life.

@Midnight_Blue

>Have you ever heard of the Renaissance period?

Certainly, and if I lived in those days I might well consider deliberately gaining a large amount of weight. I don’t live in that time, a live in a time where fat women have not been considered attractive for centuries.

There is another issue here, that of health. I am healthy, if I was fat I would not be healthy. That is supported by almost all current medical research. I certainly would not earn as much if I didn’t make a major effort to maintain my appearance.

@Midnight_Blue “I can’t see any possibility of overweight women ever being more sexually popular than the current convention.”

I’m asking you though, what is the current convention? Like I said above, “convention” is practically impossible to associate with beauty. And the word “ever” which you chose to use, represents the past, present and the future.

You’re also failing to take into consideration other cultures. There are plenty that exist right now that prefer overweight women.

@DarkScribe Splitting hairs if you ask me. I would hope “an instant unconsidered response” would be because of a lack of sincere attempt to understand?

@DrasticDreamer

>I’m asking you though, what is the current convention

It is clearly depicted in popular media, television, magazines, movies including pornographic. Youthful looking, full breasted, women with an attractive facial appearance. Youthful equates to slim, not fat.

This is a pointless direction, it is more than obvious what society considers to be attractive with regard to sexuality. It isn’t fat women. We don’t live in other cultures so that is a non sequitur approach.

@FutureMemory because of a lack of sincere attempt to understand?

Sincerity has nothing to do with it, it is reacting without thinking. It does not have to be “good” thinking, or “sincere” thinking, just a failure to think about it first. If someone makes a considered reply, they have thought about it. It doesn’t matter whether you agree with reply or not.

I am sometimes a pedant with regard to language.

@Midnight_Blue We do not live in other cultures, you’re correct, but does that mean that other cultures don’t matter and should not be taken into consideration when considering sexuality as a whole? No, not at all. And my last comments were in no way illogical.

You’re right, this is pointless and I’m done now.

@DrasticDreamer You’re right, this is pointless and I’m done now.

My first comment in this thread was that it would polarise more than most. Questions about weight or male appreciation of female attractiveness always seem to do that.

I wasn’t expecting a girl who notes in her profile that she is a hooker would join in. I suppose she could be on that basis regarded as an expert.

@DarkScribe

>I wasn’t expecting a girl who notes in her profile that she is a hooker would join in.

I am a call girl, not a hooker, there a distinct difference. I am a very exclusive call girl. who currently spends a lot of time waiting. With my computer to amuse me.

@DarkScribe I see what you’re saying. But like she said earlier, she’s going to get clients that are attracted to her, as she is. So it can’t really be representative of what all males like, because if a man wants something other than what she has to offer, they will not go to her anyway.

@DrasticDreamer

That was a “tongue in cheek” comment. Hookers aren’t exactly experts on sexuality.

@DarkScribe

>Hookers aren’t exactly experts on sexuality.

This call girl has a degree in psychology. Would you like to take a guess at what my area of expertise is?

@DarkScribe Sorry. I really should shut up now, I’m far too tired. I’m misunderstanding far too much right now and I’m not able to convey myself properly. I’m faced with a dilemma when I still feel like Fluthering, though.

@Midnight_Blue It doesn’t matter what you call yourself. Hookers sell sex, as do “call girls”. It’s the same thing. I find it funny that you’re offended when someone calls you a hooker, yet you apparently see nothing wrong in sleeping with married men who are, no doubt, cheating on their wives.

Okay, okay! I’m really done now, because I am getting pissy.

@Midnight_Blue Would you like to take a guess at what my area of expertise is?

In view of the way you have phrased the question, almost certainly something to do with sex or sexual response.

If you already have your degree, why are you still hooking. Ok, you don’t like the term hooker – why are you still prostituting yourself? Is that terminology better?

@DarkScribe
>why are you still prostituting yourself? Is that terminology better?

Yes, I prefer it. Hookers pick men in bars and on the streets, have pimps and a police record. I work by referral and appointment only, I earn more in a week than most models earn in a month (excluding supermodels) and I intend to retire by the time I am thirty. I have lost a lot of money recently in real estate investments and need to recover, otherwise I would retire next year.

I have my degree, but am working toward two advanced degrees. When I retire I will work and write within my chosen field.

Does that clarify?

And you don’t care about sleeping with men who cheat on their wives, which is morally reprehensible and highly disturbing, considering you have a degree in psychology.

Logging off in 3…2…1!

@DrasticDreamer

>And you don’t care about sleeping with men who cheat on their wives

How about just I don’t care about men? That would be closer. I certainly have no interest in their wives nor the reason they look for sex and other forms of intimate contact elsewhere. I care about the fact that they pay me and pay me very well. My degree allows me to understand human nature, it does not imbue me with a desire to change or rectify it.

I have no reason to like men, I use them now, but from a very early age they used me. That is how my interest in psychology developed, from therapy.
Now I get paid for what they used to take.

@Darkscribe I am sometimes a pedant with regard to language

Agreed.

@Midnite Blue

You have no reason to like men (roughly half the earth’s population) because of what only a few (I hope) have done to you? Considering you have a psych degree I find it extremely hard to believe you hold such an illogical viewpoint. You didn’t learn in great detail how unique every single person is, and therefore judging any particular group across the board is just kinda…dumb?

@FutureMemory

>Considering you have a psych degree I find it extremely hard to believe you hold
>such an illogical viewpoint.

There is nothing illogical about it, response to conditioning is how we are all shaped and how we all survive. And yes, there were a lot of them.

Men are sexually driven and although I know full well that all men are not pedophiles, my experience of them as a child and as an adult does not endear them to me. I have not said that one day I could not meet a man who I could respect and possibly love, just my experience so far has not been pleasant.

My current profession strengthens my distrust, it supports my early conditioning. You would not believe some of the sexual perversions many men feel is normal. I playact as wives, daughters, mothers sisters, in all sorts of roles that would horrify the women who I was pretending to be. With many men violence in sex is just beneath the surface. Last year I was given a new convertible for allowing a man to deliberately hurt me. It was no worse than some of the things done to me as a child and the scars were minor and healed quickly. Men often enjoy painful and degrading forms of sex, things that their wives and girlfriends refuse to do, and they pay large amounts of money to be able to do it.

No, I don’t like men, but they are providing me with a secure future. I can retire very young with sufficient investment income to live well.

Not to minimize what you’ve been through, but a lot of what you say reminds me of various movies or TV shows I’ve seen. Insert life event X, which yields viewpoint Y, resulting in career choice Z that mimics life event X but somehow also empowers you and reinforces viewpoint Y. Enter vicious circle, stage left :(

As nikipedia pointed out way up there, a similar question was asked by a woman who didn’t want to date a man because he was too short and the respondents practically crucified her. This question is asked by a man about a woman who is “chunky” and until midnight blue became the subject of discussion instead of the original question, the man didn’t get a single lecture on his shallowness, go figure!!!

In the question by the woman, I said it was her privilege to go out with whom she pleased and I say the same to this guy, I just wonder why the responses of the fluther is so different in this situation as opposed to the other.

@Midnight Blue – you have an interesting outlook, it would probably be very enlightening to sit and talk to you. I have to disagree with Drastic Dreamer in this one, I blame the men who seek you out, not you for doing business with married men. Why is it always the woman’s fault? These men have free will, MB is not hog tying them and raping them, they are there because they choose to be, and if it wasn’t her, it would be someone else.

@Prof1980, getting back to your original question, only you can decide your intentions with this relationship. The relationship doesn’t have to be about sex, does it? Or do you feel like you’re wasting your time if it’s not?

I agree with @rooeytoo. Sorry @DrasticDreamer, I know you’ve said you’re tired and stuff but I don’t think your arguments are holding up this time.
So to answer the question… I think this is fairly shallow but I know everyone is different, is it possible for you guys to just be really good friends or something? I personally don’t think being brutally honest with her is the best option. If she’s “chunky” in an unhealthy way, then I guess it might motivate her to get healthy and prolong her life, or it will cause her to be upset and perhaps become worse. If it’s something she can’t help then you will definitely insult her. So 2 out of 3 options may result in her being upset, I’d stick with what @FutureMemory said way up there.
@Midnight_Blue, I find your position extremely interesting and thank you for sharing it, but I think you and @nikipedia are only still on topic in a very broad way so maybe should get back to the question at hand.

There was a point where my husband thought I was “chunky” and I weighed 127 lbs at 5’5”.

When my husband and I were first dating we were in a restaurant and a lady across from us was eating a piece of cake. He made a snide remark about how “she sure didn’t need that cake,” as she was over weight.
I, (being thin at the time but knowing I fight with weight all the time) put him in his place. I sort of cursed him. I said, “don’t you ever be mean like that in front of me again. Some day YOU might be over weight and that will be what you deserve for being so mean.”
Fast forward about 10 years and my husband is nearly 100 lbs over weight. (I was too actually.) When he would complain about his weight I would remind him about the mean incident in the restaurant.
We have both since lost all the weigh and are committed to insuring out health with diet and exercise.
The morale of the story is, if you sit in judgement of people you just might find yourself sitting in their shoes yourself.

For me, physical attraction is very important at the start of a relationship. If I don’t want to see her naked, I can’t get turned on. However, after the relationship is in full swing, once her body starts to change gradually, I get used to it, and it’s not so much a bother. I consider it a social flaw on my part, but from a biological perspective, it’s normal to look for good healthy breeding stock. Yeah, so I’m not in my most eloquent mood this morning. Sorry about that.

Here’s a petite woman that prefers a woman with “a little meat on her bones”. Most of my g/f’s have had beautiful curves and I loved their bodies. Just a personal preference…

Holy moley! I just read the rest of this thread! How did it turn into a thread about prostitution? Hyjack!

This is all just disgusting to me. All of it. Men (and women) can really be shallow.

@Midnight_Blue . . .First of all, welcome back Girl of Science.

Second. . .Most users, educated or not, that join a site claiming to not only be working toward dual Masters but also work as high class call girls are generally 15 year old boys living out some sort of strange online fantasy.

Third…You have the right to give your opinion on the female body. I have the right to tell you that you are being purposefully insulting and juvenile and basically showing a social ignorance that undermines all of your self aggrandizing.

At best your rhetoric is shameless self-promotion which is best left for the porn sites. On the other hand it could just be some well spoken flame bait but flame bait nonetheless.

grow up

@Blondesjon

>First of all, welcome back Girl of Science.

I have not been here before a couple of days ago so I can hardly be welcomed back. As for the rest, if you feel happier regarding me as a fifteen year old schoolboy, then you go right ahead. As for your reference to porn sites, as I have not made any comment of a erotic, carnal or remotely pornographic nature, I can only assume that you are relating to personal experience foreign to me. I do not ever discuss anything of a personal or titillating nature beyond very general references to experience. Never have, never will. Not unless I am being paid for it.

I make mention of what I do for a living, I don’t hide it, but I also don’t discuss the specifics of it. I made a point of mentioning that in my bio. If you can find anything to excite you in anything that I ever post then you have a problem.

All people, male or female, have a right to their opinion, and on something as basic as sexual attraction, you are going to find some very strong opinion.

In what way could anything I say be looked upon as self promotion? I most certainly am not looking for custom here, there is no way that I would even identify myself, let alone promote myself. The attraction here is anonymity, not publicity.

By the way, if you find someone who is both working and studying and attempting very hard to do well, as self aggrandizement then I have to wonder about you. Why would that impress you sufficiently to regard such a thing in that way? Aside from the fact that I earn money in a way that much of society frowns on, what else is unusual?

Did anyone look at the previous fluther post @nikipedia linked to? It wasn’t exactly the same because it was a question of height (can’t change that) whereas this thread is about weight (more control to change that) but the guts of it is:

Don’t lie to yourself or make excuses for what you find attractive, it’s either going to develop or not.

Don’t lie for the sake of the other person you’re “not feeling” because that’s cruel and a waste of their time. They deserve a better match.

Being honest doesn’t mean you have to choose stabbing words when a little pinch will do (someone else above mentioned this)

@Midnight_Blue . . .I stated in my post that you have the right to say what you will just as I have the right to comment on it.

It has been my experience that when an individual such as yourself not only points out how desirable and attractive they are but also goes out of their way to insult anyone else who is in the slightest way different, they are trying to compensate for their own feelings of inadequacy.

Every single one of your comments screams “LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!”. It leads me to believe that you weren’t hurt so much as a youngster as you just weren’t paid enough attention.

Again, your story reeks of bullshit and well spoken trolling.

Whoa, somehow we transitioned from Prof1980 feeling bad because he was mentally attracted to a woman but not physically attracted, to a whole other discussion about the validation of married men cheating on their wives because they’re overweight. These are two separate questions, because Prof1980’s question seemed to imply that he’s interested in a relationship with the woman, but doesn’t see it going anywhere. He obviously feels that perhaps he owes her an explanation for breaking up with her, or feels that perhaps if he tells her, she will lose weight.

There are past threads where people were dating someone, doubting physical attraction, “and then he kissed her.” The missing question is, what is Prof1980 looking for? A hook-up, casual dating, a meaningful relationship? If it’s the first two, then by all means, woman a favor and exit her life. If there’s more there, then maybe this is one of those issues that gets worked on, and the relationship moves slower. I’m sure she’s quite aware she’s “chunky” and telling her will only serve to be hurtful. Weight is not as easy to lose as people think, and there are often complex issues behind weight.

As for @Midnight_Blue, welcome to Fluther. Given the picture of social sex painted here on Fluther, I can only imagine old men or those who are time-constrained paying for sex these days. I can imagine that your personal life outside of work must be quite lonely.

@Blondesjon

Why do I get the feeling that you are an intelligent man who lacks tertiary education and has a degree of resentment against those who have or are acquiring an education? As you have made clear, we all have a right to interpret the way we wish and comment on it.

Where did I point out how desirable and attractive I am? I mention that I work hard at maximizing what attributes I have, but little else. You are right about one thing, I was not paid enough attention as a child. Not enough of the right kind of attention, too much of the other kind. Also, for many years I did have a overriding sense of inadequacy. I no longer have that. That took effort, both on my part and on the part of a couple who I was eventually fortunate enough to meet.

@PandoraBoxx

>I can imagine that your personal life outside of work must be quite lonely.

You are quite intuitive. That is why I spend time on various internet groups. I have no social life at all when not working or attending lectures and classes. I do not date, and have no family. Not in this country, my foster parents, the ones who helped sort my life out, are elderly and still living in Kent, UK.

@Midnight_Blue . . .I have no resentment toward anyone desiring an education. I don’t even have a problem with you whoring yourself.

I have a problem with the insulting tone that tinged your comments in regard to body type. You, of all people according to your posts, should be the last person to degrade a woman based on her looks or body type.

I’m still convinced that you are Girl of Science. She made the exact same assertions in the exact same voice.

I don’t know where the mods are, but I think this has gotten quite out of hand and all parties no longer interested in answering the question should step back and move their argument to private comments or the chat room.

@Blondesjon
>I have no resentment toward anyone desiring an education. I don’t even have a problem with you whoring yourself.

Thank you , I was very worried about your potential problem with me whoring myself. What a relief!

>should be the last person to degrade a woman based on her looks or body type.

Why? Why should I care about women who make no effort to look after themselves? I do it, it takes discipline and effort, it doesn’t happen by itself. Why should I care about people who are not prepared to make the same effort? Just because they are women?

If you find my tone insulting, perhaps you should learn the difference between insult and indifference.

If you want to change my status from a fifteen year old schoolboy to a Girl of Science, once again, you are welcome. Whatever makes you happy.

@Midnight_Blue . . .If you find my tone insulting, perhaps you should learn the difference between insult and indifference.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between intelligence and arrogance.

@Blondesjon

>Perhaps you should learn the difference between intelligence and arrogance.

I am both.

@Midnight_Blue . . .I believe the term you’re looking for is deluded.

@Blondesjon

You are retorting like a fifteen year old schoolboy now.

Guys, I’m not sure if you find this amusing, but I don’t, and I’m sure the asker of this question doesn’t, please stop.

@Midnight_Blue . . .Oh no. A fifteen year old schoolboy would be impressed.

@Blondesjon

>This, as shrubbery has pointed out, is going nowhere. No point in continuing

Bye for now.

@Everyone First, I would like to clarify that I absolutely do not blame the women when a man cheats on his wife. I blame the man and whatever woman he’s sleeping with, who doesn’t care about screwing up lives. It takes two people to cheat and I think it’s disgusting that a) a woman goes along with it, knowingly and b) the man is too much of a coward to get a divorce.

Secondly, this is the last post I will make to this thread unless it specifically regards the actual question. I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread and I will stop now.

If physical attraction is important to you, find someone else. Simple.

[mod says] Please get back to the topic at hand. From this point on, all off-topic chatter will be removed. Thank you.

It seems the more crucial concern should be whether the woman is comfortable in her own skin and with her sexuality… I am plus-size and healthy and I enjoy sharing physical intimacy with the man I love. I know women who might fit our culture’s current definition of what’s attractive who have way more hangups than I do, and are high-maintenance (which I can only imagine must carry-over into the bedroom… can anyone offer insight into that?)

I understand the point someone made about weight being something which we have some degree of contol over. I won’t date men who smoke… it shows a lack of respect for one’s own health, and being overweight is similar.

In my case, I didn’t respect myself for many years, and now I’m stuck with physical ‘baggage’ even after I’ve worked through the emotional issues. I am exercising and losing weight for my long-term health and well-being, not to look better for some shallow dude. I have been rejected because of my weight, and it was absolutely their loss.

If getting laid is your reason to be dating, then do her a favor and end it now. If finding someone whom you can share all areas of life with, in good times and bad, for many years to come… and you feel that she’d make a good partner for you, tell her so, and express your concern as it relates to her health. Listen to her explanation of why she has weight issues… does she have a medical reason? Has she been going through some difficulties or stress that’s contributed to weight gain? And listen to how she feels about her weight… is she content the way she is? Does she want to be more fit? Is she motivated to improve this part of her life? Do you believe that she is ready, willing and able to make fitness a priority in her life?

If you believe in her, and in your potential for a future together, than be prepared to make fitness and health a priority in your lives together. Do not sabotage her success by suggesting unhealthy restaurants or meals/snacks. Do not nag her or critique her progress, because that creates a control issue in the relationship. Realize that women’s weight varies as our hormone levels fluctuate, and that losing weight is biologically more difficlult for women. And don’t set expectations for a particular size, but for her to be fit and happy.

Also, strip naked and stand in front of a full-length mirror, and give yourself a realistic assessment. Who are you to judge? Are you truly the ‘whole package’? Do you live up to your own standards? If you were a girl, would you want to date you? Women often seem to see beyond the physical more easily than men, but we often consider a man’s ability to communicate honestly, to listen and relate, and to be dedicated… can you offer those things? Imagine when this girl loses the weight… will you feel worthy of her? I had a bf who told me I’d be out of his league when I lose weight, and another who worried that he couldn’t compete with the guys who’d want me if I was thinner; and they’d sabotage me.

And what if you met a woman who was perfect for you in every way and you married her, but then she became disfigured by illness or injury… would you stay by her side ‘for better or worse’? Everyone’s body and looks change over time. Our society is youth obsessed, but even the best surgeons can’t stop the hands of time. So even the perfect woman now won’t always look that way… and neither will you. What do you think will matter 25 years from now – how she looks naked, or how much you enjoy her company and conversation?

I’m on my iPhone, and editing is a headache; I hope this makes sense. :-)

@hearkat Wish I could lurve you more than once for that!

I think in all the hubbub, that Midnight Blue’s original point was somehow missed; and I thulink it’s a valid point, especially coming from someone with her unique perspective.

If prof1980 feels like he is making a compromise by starting a relationship with someone to whom he is not attracted, it’s unlikely that he’ll ever end up feeling better about it. Like it or not, physical attractiveness is an important part of any relationship, and I think it’s tougher for men to overlook. But I also don’t think that it’s something that prof should have to apologize for.

On the other hand, no relationship is perfect. Dating is supposed to be a weeding out process. You’ll never find someone that has no flaws. As with any relationship, when you find something that you don’t like, you have to decide if it’s a dealbreaker.

What you absolutely shouldn’t do is to overlook this (or anything) hoping that it will change eventually. It’s as unfair to hope that your fat wife will lose weight after you marry her as it is for your skinny wife to get fat after you marry her. I think this touches on Midnight’s first point.

I think you should give this lady a chance if you truly like her personality and feel you have a “soulful” connectionwith her but you should tell her that her being overweight is causing some anxiety in you. I mean, be honest and tell her why you like her and that you want to be intimate but that the weigth thing could improve somewhat, also for her own health! See her reaction. If she goes ballistic then perhaps you are not meant for each other – if she agrees she could lose some pounds then that’s a good thing for her – and you. But also see if you can actually learn to love her like she is – maybe sleep with her and see if the sex is palatable. With intimacy, the sex really improves a lot. I had something similar with a guy I didn’t even want to sleep with but after I had sex with him a few times, it really improved. So there….. try it out if you like her persona – personality is a lot more important than looks. This is a truism a lot of people in this shallow society overlook – much to their damage and eventual loneliness.