Should we allow our 15 year old daughter to get a job?

I would, my mom told me that when im 16 I have to get a job.
So her dad doesn’t want her to work yet because she is a girl?Or is it because he’s afraid of her walking by herself? I would let her get a job if she really wanted one.

i would have her concentrate on school instead.

@ragingloli That’s not really a factor. Being the daughter in mind, this was intended to be a summer job. It’s too late in the year now, but I was supposed to be able to drive and get a summer job next year. However, we recently discovered a new change to the driving laws that will prevent me from driving for an additional 6 months, thus making the previous intentions impossible.

I say let her go for it. I started working at 14 (out of necessity, though) and I have a good work ethic because of it.

And, based on @Fly‘s answer, she seems rather intelligent. This jelly says “yea”.

Actually, I’m extremely impressed. That’s one smart child you have there, @augustlan!

I was working as young as 15 when I was in high school and having a job certainly instills a sense of responsibility and self-worth in a person not to mention that there is the extra income that’s rewarding also. If your daughter wants to get a job, which I think is admirable, I would recommend such things as checking her work hours, routes of travel to and from the workplace, all necessary contact numbers for her employer, and recommend that she ride a bike as that would be a more expedient and better mode of travel than walking.

Even if her planned route to work is safe, and I don’t mean to sound like an alarmist but this could be a wise consideration, you might recommend that your daughter carry a small bottle of mace or pepper spray with her when she goes to and comes home from work. (That’s the military policeman in me talking)

@Grisaille Why thank you!

Or a shank. Just sayin’.

@Fly You’re welcome! Something tells me you’re a leader of tomorrow.

@Grisaille Is it that obvious? ;P

Intelligent and confident. Hoo boy, look out world!

Personally? I’m all for independence. As long as it’s not a stupid risk, like letting her work the nightshift in a sleazy neighbourhood and then walk home, I think we have to prepare our kids for grown-up life sooner or later, and whether you do it now or in 3 years’ time makes no difference. There will always be risks, and not just the ones that make us paranoid as parents. I feel most parents are taking a much larger risk by overprotecting their kids for 18 whole years and then just dumping them into the world and letting them fend for themselves. So I think your gut feeling is right.

Of course the issue here is not what I think, but what her dad thinks. And however unreasonable it may sound, he still has a say in this. Flutherites don’t. So if you two still get along, maybe try and put things into perspective for him. The issue is not whether she can drive or not, or whether there are dangers or not. There will always be some degree of danger, regardless of age. But he has to understand that his daughter must slowly start to be exposed to a little danger in order to be able to cope with it.

Regarding concerns over safety, biking is a whole lot different than walking (of course, with a helmet, and biking defensively).

I say let her do it, and use a bike as transportation to quell any concerns about safety. Quite frankly, driving at that age is probably more dangerous at the end of the day anyway.

If she would have to travel at night I would worry but not if it’s in the daytime.

I was only allowed to have a job during the day until I was 16, so I worked as an ice cream scooper in a mall. If the job’s hours re only during the day, I would allow it.

Based on her answers to some recent questions, your daughter is clearly intelligent, confident and articulate – but is she street smart?

There is much value in being able to conduct yourself properly in the real world. Riding her bicycle to a part-time job is a reasonable step in that direction.

Once she’s secured a job, map out a bike route (even ride or walk it with her once to become familiar) – then…let go.

Fifteen is the perfect age to start (safely) exploring the world around you. Plus there’s the responsibility of the job, dealing with people – all just as important as what she learns in school (in my opinion).

If she can handle herself in the real world as well as she does in school, she won’t just be smart, she’ll be a force of nature.

I vote yes. Fifteen is a very reasonable age to start working a summer job. If the objection is really just to the transportation, can one or the other of you drive her at least one way? If not, does she have a cell phone she can call you on if a situation arises. It seems to me that it is time to let her explore her independence some. Kudos to Fly for wanting to work!

Is there not a lift giving opportunity?

Definately! Not only will it provide her with interaction with people or groups that she may not normally mix with, it’s a great opportunity to become more socially and financially aware. My 16 year old son has been working a part time job for about 8 months and it has given him a little financial independence and improved his confidence massively.

I think that this should be fine. She is your daughter so she is very smart. If someone stops a vehicle next to her, she knows to bike away immediately!

Does @Fly have a girlfriend that she could get the job, with and they could travel together? One of my first jobs in high school, I worked with two of my firends on the same shift.

DAD is right! Can no one give her a ride back and forth? Two things:

1. People who live in the same neighborhood for a long period of time frequently do not realize nor are willing to accept just how bad the neighborhood has gotten. Are you SURE it’s OK?

2. I don’t know what kind of a job she’s getting but, if it’s a food service type job, the people from the outlying “bad” neighborhoods will come to her establishment, no?

And does he plan on buying her the car so she can drive to work, or does he want her to somehow earn enough money to pay for her own/chip in for the car when he won’t let her get a job to make money. On one hand, safety is important, but on the other hand think of the values she learns when she’s not allowed to get a job. Especially around the age of 15, kids need to learn the value of having a job and making money.

That being said, 15-year-old girls NEED some freedom. My mom had complete double standards for my brother and I, and while he was allowed to walk around alone/bike alone by the age of 13, it took me until 16/17 yrs old to be able to walk alone DURING THE DAY. I completely understand where she/your husband are coming from, but having been on the other side of it and being completely frustrated with it, I 100% think she should be able to get a job, especially if you know the route, etc. Make sure she has a cell phone, and send her on her merry way to learn about money-making.

@cprevite, well said!

I’m with @omfgTALIjustIMDu and @cprevite. Doing this sounds totally valuable and a breath of fresh air. Do it!

Being 15 is hell. You can’t drive because you don’t have money. You don’t have money cause you can’t get a job. You can’t get a job cause you can’t drive.
Let her do this. Make sure she isn’t working late nights, and uses bicycle protection.

It will only help her resume look better and help her get a job over someone else.

I got my first job at 14. I walked through woods and along windy roads wth poor visibility to get there. It was fine, you just couldn’t listen to music as you went so you could hear approaching cars.

I actually think a job before you can drive is best. Her transportation is her responsibility. She has to learn time management and be independent sometime. Having a car can skew those lessons when you’re young. Running late? No big. You can always speed.

No thanks.

Get her some reflective safety gear and some mace if you’re worried. But that’s all I’d do.

Let the girl fly and screw the girls need protecting bs. :)

To all those who asked, no, rides to and from are not possible, otherwise this question would not have been asked. My dad leaves for work at 8 or 9 AM and doesn’t return until about 7 PM everyday. Although he could potentially give me a ride to or from he doesn’t want me walking the extra trip. And on a weekly basis, I live 45 minutes away from my mom who sleeps cough very late cough, so she can’t give me the extra ride.

My dad’s main concern is that I would be a girl alone on the sidewalk. I have a cell phone and a plenty fast bike, not to mention the fact that I’m not an idiot and if a car comes up I have no intentions of getting in. Yes, @SirBailey, the neighborhood is very safe, actually. (And no, I have no intentions of even applying for a food service job) The roads I would be on are very well-traveled making it nearly impossible for anything shady to happen without someone noticing, but not dangerously busy.

Then, if I were your Dad, I would drive the route you would take to/from the job on a weekday or two, “just to see”.

Your neighbors know the area better then any of us. What are THEY saying?

@augustlan, there’s a book called “Free Range Kids” that I think both you and your ex should read. Besides being very funny, it has a lot of statistics to show that the world isn’t the dangerous place for kids that most parents (myself included) think it is. The odds of something happening to your daughter while biking to and from a job during daylight hours are very, very low.

For example, if you wanted a stranger to abduct her, you’d have to leave her outside unattended for 750,000 years before it would statistically likely to happen. However, you know the area and the crime rate best. You also know your daughter best. She certainly seems to have a lot of common sense. Pair that with a cell phone and she’ll be fine.

@Fly , I agree with @SirBailey about familiarizing your dad with the route you’d take, show your knowledge of the area and the number of potential witnesses during daylight hours. You can even take it a step further and compile a list of crimes to show how unlikely it is you’d be harmed. How many teens have been snatched off their bikes in your nieghborhood in the last 20 years? Probably zero. How many have been hit by cars? That number is probably also extremely low.

I remember very well having to fight my dad tooth and nail for even the smallest bit of independence when I was a teen. When he finally caved in and let me get a car and a job…nothing happened. Nothing happened to any of my friends either. Strange, huh? :)

@Fly The collective is behind you! Now, go talk to your Dad.

@MissAusten , I have a fundamental problem with “statistics”. Not to be dramatic, but I imagine the mothers of those girls who go missing and are never found alive again say to themselves “Gee! Statistically this shouldn’t have happened!”.

What are acceptable odds for a parent to loose a daughter?

I had a bunch of odd-end jobs before I got my first real job at 15..working at a movie theater. My parents would drive me when they could, and almost always picked me up, but I usually took public transportation. A 15 minute trolley ride to the main station, a bus ride for 30–40 minutes. I wanted my own money, and some freedom. Work at 15 is still fun and exciting, so I think it’s a great idea.
It teaches money management, and responsibility for ones self. I think she’ll be fine and she needs to do this for herself.

I had my first job at 15.

16 min. bike ride. 5 min car. I have no idea what I would do. I have learned that right now, I might be way over protective as a father.

I’m having trouble figuring out what to say here, honestly, because I’m a bit shocked that your fifteen year old can’t walk around on her own. When I hit sixth grade, as long as I said where I was going and went with someone, my folks let me walk wherever I wanted to go. When I hit the end of eighth grade, I started doing it without an escort. Even at night. In, I’m going to be honest, a decently but not overly safe place. It’s fine. It was fine. This wasn’t even ten years ago.

That was pre-cellphone for the most part. I don’t see why you don’t give her a cellphone and require her to check in. “Hi, mom, I made it to work.” “Hi, mom, I’m on my way home.” As a parent, you should know exactly how long it takes her to get there or back, so if she’s late calling, you can freak out. Otherwise, it soothes the mind. Heck, you could even get one of those kiddo ones with a GPS in it (or an iPhone with Loopt in it and on) and track her.

Or, if it’s an evening shift, make her walk there and then pick her up in the evening.

To help everyone feel better, you could enroll her in one of those women defense courses. My mom made us take one mid-high school. It teaches women some ways of defending themselves usually with a focus on getting away from an attacker. It could be a condition of being allowed to get a job.

That way you are preparing her as much as possible, allowing her to have freedom, and giving her the information and skills she needs to protect herself in a bad situation.

Edited to add: Re: the safety course, in the version I took, the “intermediate” course covered stuff like handling pepper spray properly. This could also be useful.

seems like your squeezing a bit too hard to me. I had consistent jobs when I was 13. I have a better work ethic for it now. Let her get a job.

Let her get the job.

For protection, get her some pepper spray and a cell phone.

I’m with the collective, here. I started working at a young age as well, and it was very valuable experience. Pepper spray, bike, bike lights, helmet, cell phone – sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

let her if she wants to, if shes a good kid and responsible why not? I started working at a real job at 15 and had other work before that.

@SirBailey , I had those same thoughts. The odds may be 1 in millions that my kid would be abducted but still….what if she is that one? When we’re out and about and she asks to go to the bathroom alone, or wants to walk to the other side of the store to pick something up, I let her. She’s ten, and we live in a very safe town. She also knows to never go off with a stranger and to scream and fight like hell if someone grabs her. Still, I have to force myself not to worry about her while she’s three aisles away in the grocery store. Maybe I’m more paranoid than most parents, but I do try to counter it with some common sense and a reality check for myself. :( God help me when she starts to drive or goes off to college. I wonder if she’d let me be her roommate in college?

So long as it doesn’t interfere with school.

Fly, yes. But I wouldn’t apply it to all 15 year olds, or people in general. My fake sister-in-law still can’t take public transport.

I went to sleep after asking the question, and am surprised to see how many of you responded. I appreciate it. I’ll let her dad read all the great answers given here, and perhaps he’ll be swayed. Thanks again!

@MissAusten , I always say that if a 30, 40, 50+ year old man can’t outsmart a young child, his biggest problem isn’t perversion.

Edited to add: I’d be more comfortable with her taking public transportation then the bike. The driver is always there, plus the bike is the equivalent to valuable “bling” for some. If it means she waits for the bus or train alone, then I’d reconsider.

I assume she plans to use public transportation in bad weather like rain or snow? What happens if the weather is good when she GOES to work, but it storms or snows for her return trip? (I’m a father. Does it show?)

Arm yourself with cell phone and personal alarm. Also if your dad is really that against fy getting a job can she not do some jobs for either set of parents and get paid??

I would personally encourage my daughter to get a job I worked at 15 and it made me feel really proud that I had earned the money I was spending :)

Good Luck and hope all works out

The father of your child sounds like the over protective one here .. When I was 14 I had to quit school and get a job to help my mother pay the rent and feed my siblings. The most important thing you can teach your child is the value of a dollar and of a full days work. With the economy right now and with the way thing are If you refuse your child the oppertunity to get a job then your refusing your child there place in society. If your daughter can get a job right now when there are so many others that cannot . Then she should and you should be encouroging her independance and path to adulthood. As for some areas not being safe it’s called mace and a cell phone ladie ..

A teenager with a job and school? I agree with ragingloli (hope I got the name right) She should concentrate on school. As far as walking riding her bike, I really wouldn’t let my daughter do that so I can’t advise you to let yours. Again I say there are way too many pervs and sickos in this world!

I started working at 14 and it saved my life, but it might have been a different situation. My friends would all party on the weekends, and I didn’t so I was not hanging out with them, bored and lonely and eventually depressed. Thank goodness I got a job that filled part of my weekend and some school nights. I really lucked out that the teenages I worked with were super square too, so no pressures. We all became friends, went out after work, etc. Plus, I was great at my job, which made me feel good. My dad’s deal for letting me work was that my grades could not suffer, and they actually got better. I was not really working harder in fear of losing my privalege to work, but I think I was so much healthier mentally working there that I was doing better over all. BUT, my parents were stuck driving me there and taking me home.

I would trust that your daughter knows not to talk to strangers, not to get in anyones car, not to doddle, etc., so as long as the neigborhood is relatively safe it sounds ok. If there is always a bad element around that would make me nervous.

@ShanEnri As I stated earlier, school is irrelevant. This would only be a summer job.

I’m with EmpressPixie on the self-defense class idea. Any kind will be a great work-out on top of a practical lesson in self-defense, but a particularly good style to look into is Krav Maga. It’s not a martial art, and it has no rules – the only goal is to stay safe, not to learn certain moves to get points in a controlled pseudo-combat as in judo and tae-kwon-do. Krav Maga emphasizes personal defense, and using one of its techniques, a girl of any size can flip off a man of any size who is pinning her to the ground. Sounds implausible I know, but I went to a demonstration once and was completely amazed. You can find classes for Krav Maga in many cities.

Is it not possible to give her a ride? I took the teens in my family to and from work or school as much as I could when they needed it.

@YARNLADY And I repeat:
To all those who asked, no, rides to and from are not possible, otherwise this question would not have been asked. My dad leaves for work at 8 or 9 AM and doesn’t return until about 7 PM everyday. Although he could potentially give me a ride to or from he doesn’t want me walking the extra trip. And on a weekly basis, I live 45 minutes away from my mom who sleeps cough very late cough, so she can’t give me the extra ride.

I didn’t get that you live with the father. In that case, my answer would be to honor his wishes. It’s not worth a family feud.

Well obviously the solution is to tell your mom to stop being such a lazy bum :P

Disclaimer: If you actually follow this advice I am in no way responsible.

@EmpressPixie If I had a dime for every time I tried that one, I’d be a millionaire by now. ;)

So sorry! I would still be hesitant though!

I have read and reread this over and over and placed my daughter in the situation and my ex-husband. (he always has an opinion, yet really doesn’t parent.)

I gotta say, this sounds like something I might let my daughter try. I do think a very set path should be mapped out, all adults aware of the route and it should be executed a few times, so everyone is familiar with the approximate time it would take to get there and then to return home. I also believe I would buy some pepper spray and make sure she has a phone, and a whistle. Yes, I said whistle. If a person is in danger, it’s a startling sound. Whistle on a key chain, in the hand (if walking) and ready to go. (pepper spray there too, if possible.)

Fly sounds like a responsible, intelligent young woman. Augustlan, you have done well by her, now it’s time to let her explore, some. This coming from a woman who allowed her daughter to go to Costa Rica, on a mission trip.

As far as your ex. Just how much input does he have, and I don’t mean this in a disrespectful manner. In my case, I have custody. My decision is the one that sticks. I do consult my ex, when I feel like it’s something he should be involved in, rarely do we see eye-to-eye. Also, my ex still looks at my daughter and sees a 13yr old girl. I think she’ll never age, in his eyes. Does your husband understand your daughter enough to know that it’s time to let her try something new? The double standard issue is just a bad argument on his part. He needs to come up with something better than that!

One last thing, at 15, what will the night hours be like? I know my daughter would still be restricted on night hours. That would be something that would concern me, would there be a time when transportation could be provided?

It is so hard to do, I am struggling, too. I think if we hold them back from new experiences too long, we stifle their growth. It’s just really hard to start the process of allowing more independence and to let go…some.

@cak In our situation, he has physical custody and we have joint legal custody. Everyone is on excellent terms, and we co-parent quite effectively. When we don’t see eye to eye (rarely), we try to hash it out and come to a mutually agreeable solution. We haven’t really reached one this time around, so I was looking for some outside input. Also, if she had to work night hours (I’d prefer not…), her father could pick her up (and the bike, too) since he’d be home from work by then. I definitely would not be ok with her riding/walking home in the dark.

@all Thanks for all the input and advice. I particularly like the idea of self defense classes, pepper spray, and whistle (I carry an English Bobby Bobbie? whistle on my own key chain). I’m feeling a little better about the idea. Now we just have to see if her dad will, too. I’ll keep you posted.

@augustlan and @fly good luck, to all involved!

OK, people. Here comes the father in me again. When I read what some of you posted, i.e., give her martial arts training, pepper spray, whistles, hand grenades, bombs, guns, knives, attack dogs, yada, yada, yada, ...if she needs that to do what she wants to do alone, then she shouldn’t be doing it, for God’s sake! If it’s not safe enough for her to do without attaching nuclear missiles to her handlebars, then she’s too young to do it alone. Martial arts training? Give me a break! Pepper spray? Let’s hope the guy doesn’t get it away from her (or worse, she might be standing DOWN WIND. I guess she could ask the assailant to move, right?)

I suspect the guy will have more experience at being a criminal then the girl does being a crime fighter?? And what if there’s more then one??

The experience will be good for her?? What kind of message does “arming” herself send??

I’m from New York City so maybe I’m more cautious then she needs to be. If there are LOTS of people around when she goes to work and returns such that she can’t be forced into a back alley somewhere, I’d say “Try it for the summer”. I’d also be interested in whether or not police patrol the area. If that’s not the case, and she needs something tantamount to armed guards, then forget it.

What I’m actually suggesting is not martial arts training. It’s escape and defense training. There is a huge difference. With martial arts you have to train regularly. The kind of stuff they put in defense classes is stuff that even a very plump, elderly lady could do but it would still work to help her get away. Not nearly as well as when a spry 15 year old does it, but still works.

Also, the point of giving her pepper spray, a rape whistle, and some classes isn’t because it’s actually too dangerous for her to go and do this. It’s because her parents are worried and want her to be as prepared as possible. All of that stuff is, to some extent, parental soothing. @augustlan and Mr. Ex-@augustlan know they cannot hold onto @Fly forever. It’s not possible. But by letting her out a bit at a time and preparing her as best as possible, well it makes college a lot easier in, what, two years? Three?

Much better to prepare her now and make these very simple safety plays habit.

And while I’m commenting again anyway, I’d highly recommend the women’s defense stuff even if dad says, “no” to the job.

@SirBailey: The world can be a tough place. Being prepared does not equal being paranoid (the Boy Scouts and Military will tell you that).

The message you would send her is “expect the best, but plan for the worst”. The alternative is to place her in a bubble.

Also, I’m from Boston. While not quite as large and crazy as NYC, but there’s plenty of tough neighborhoods surrounding some really wonderful places. Why sacrifice the wonderful for fear of the dangerous?

@cprevite , I was a Scout Master for many, many years and the “Be Prepared” that the Boy Scouts use as their motto never meant “to fight off muggers”.

“The alternative is to place her in a bubble.” No, it’s not. Neither you nor I know her environment like her parents do. The alternative can be a lot of things.

Finally, I’ve been to Boston MANY times and love it. If you want to compare NY to Boston, compare OUR subway stations to your train stations. NO COMPARISON.

I too have been to NYC many times (my niece lives in Brooklyn). You are correct about the subway system and I did say that Boston was “not quite as large and crazy as NYC”.

But we’re talking about her riding her bicycle to work, during the day. And yes, her parents know the environment better than we, but I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts it doesn’t resemble NYC or Boston (@augustlan: correct me if I’m wrong).

I agree there are other alternatives (many of which have been discussed above), but your previous post is so riddled with histrionics (“without attaching nuclear missiles to her handlebars”), I can’t tell if you’re seriously that paranoid.

I think, ultimately, you’re simply more cautious. I don’t presume to know your background, but I’ve been around and involved in some pretty ugly things over the years. Perhaps I’m just less fazed.

“I can’t tell if you’re seriously that paranoid.”

Right back at ya. Maybe you’re that ignorant?

@SirBailey: As I said in my last paragraph: ”I think, ultimately, you’re simply more cautious. I don’t presume to know your background, but I’ve been around and involved in some pretty ugly things over the years. Perhaps I’m just less fazed.”

I concluded you were “more cautious” (choosing to overlook the histrionics).

Anyway, thank you for getting defensive. It’s been a pleasure.

Yeah. Right.

@SirBailey and @cprevite
The environment is nothing like NYC or Boston. I live in Maryland; Although we have three basic major cities (DC, Annapolis, Baltimore) I live an hour or so away from all three in an area that is actually surprisingly safe. On a county crime map, only two or so crimes appear withing three zip codes away, and they’re usually petty theft…nothing that would affect me.

@SirBailey “When I read what some of you posted, i.e., give her martial arts training, pepper spray, whistles, hand grenades, bombs, guns, knives, attack dogs, yada, yada, yada, ...if she needs that to do what she wants to do alone, then she shouldn’t be doing it, for God’s sake! If it’s not safe enough for her to do without attaching nuclear missiles to her handlebars, then she’s too young to do it alone.”

I would like to point out that any woman (or even man) of any age should have all of these things as a precaution. The point of having those things in the first place is to hope that one doesn’t need them, but that if something were to happen, one would have them to use. Anybody should have them, and is not related to age. If you want to argue that point, then everybody in the world shouldn’t be prepared for anything and should sit in a bubble because if they needed to be prepared, then they shouldn’t do it.

@Fly, first let me say I hope you get to do whatever you want to do with the job. I hope the experience proves valuable to you on every level.

I’ve said all that I have to say on this. I, like everyone else on this board, don’t know your neighborhood, your maturity level, etc. like your parents do. But one final comment: martial arts training, pepper spray, whistles, even a concealed weapon, I would advise even my OWN daughter not to depend on. If going to and from work required she possess these then I would not approve of her going to work at THAT job.

Like I said, pepper spray taken away from you will do you no good. Nor will it do much if you’re standing downwind. Nor will it do much if there are SEVERAL assailants. The whistle can be pulled away or slapped out of your mouth, or maybe no one is around to hear it. Or if one was to grab you from behind. It’s great that there’s training out there to teach someone to run away from the bad guys. Yes, everyone should go through that training. But I wouldn’t feel confident to face the bad guys just because I went through it. In fact, if I thought I needed stuff to go and come from work, I doubt even I would take the job!

Do keep us posted. I WILL worry about ya, too. And again, good luck and be safe!

14 or 40, all women, and men even, should know basic self-defense. Walking alone is perilous to many people. Age has nothing to do with it.

@SirBailey No one on here mentioned martial arts training – in fact I went out of my way to point out that the self-defense style I was recommending is not a martial art. The Israeli military uses it for and-to-hand combat, and it was originally developed by a Jewish man to help people in the Jewish Quarter in Bratislava defend themselves when attacked walking in the streets. This makes it a practical skill to have, regardless of the city you live in.

The purpose of all the things suggested here is not to be a fool-proof man-stopper. It is to decrease your chances of getting hurt.

Don’t get me wrong. It’s valuable training everyone should get. But it should NOT give anyone, including the parent, a false sense of security. When push comes to shove, when someone is caught off guard by an experienced assailant(s) who might even be armed, the training does little. To think otherwise is foolish.

And understand, I would say the same things were someone to recommend she carry a gun to work. The bad guys REALLY know how to be bad guys.

@SirBailey Many bad guys do know their stuff, I’ll absolutely give you that. But many more do not. Have you ever tried to perform a crime well? It’s pretty hard, mostly because no matter how accustomed to breaking the law or “hardened” you are, if you are smart you never let yourself feel at ease. If anything throws off your plan, even stupid criminals know it is best to give it all up and run away without getting caught. I speak from the perspective of someone who regularly performs victimless crimes, but I’d imagine that if I were an average large guy with evil intent, I’d be at least somewhat thrown off by a fifteen-year old chick who knew how to be defensively aggressive, or had mace in her purse, or whatnot.

This is why I love having a black dog that looks like a wolf in NYC – even though she is not guard-dog trained, I figure her appearance alone scares off half of all people who would bother me.

“Have you ever tried to perform a crime well?”

Can’t say that I have, to tell you the truth.

Self defense training is a GREAT thing for everyone, men and women. I work in a Psych hospital and we go through it. If someone grabs my arm I know if I pull back to get away I will never get away, but if I swing my arm towards his thumb, which is usually up, I can get away every time. This is the kind of basic stuff to free yourself and run. It also helps if God Forbid you are with an aggressive boy who will not take no for an answer. It is not full of scary situations described in detail, it is mostly how to get away. The whole family should take it together one day, it is great and you can practive on each other every so often.

It sounds like the streets are plenty busy and you will be one of the many, it sounds safe to me. But, I will mention here as some general advice to all: Someone mentioned mapping out the route and sticking to it. Well, I was raised by people who were raised in the Bronx and you have to worry about routines. If you are going be coming and going the same days at the same times, or jogging the same time every day, on the same path, etc. you might want to mix up the routes a little every so often.

@Fly why do you want to work? Is it for the money? Or, you think you will like it? One last thought, are there any other kids you know that work in the same plce you can carpool with? Would your dad go for that?

@JLeslie – in regards to mixing up the routes, I mentioned that – a possibility would be to come up with more than one route and make sure mom and dad know which one she is taking. The same thing, everyday can be dangerous; however, it would be important for a parent to know which way she is going, just in case something was taking too long. Of course, sometimes, there is only one way to and from a location.

I remember when I was way to young, being drunk in a place I shouldn’t have been, with a boy I shouldn’t have been with. He was on top of me and I was saying no. He didn’t want to hear it. I remembered a self defense class and yelled NO! I crossed my arms over my chest and then flung my arms outunder his neck. It may have been the alcohol that made it seem so dramatic but I would swear the guy flew 10 feet! He finally got my point.

@cak I must have skimmed too fast, I apologyze for the oversight.

@JLeslie – oh – no, you didn’t miss it. I mean a solution would be more than one route, just notifying the parents which way she would go to work or home from work. Nope…no oversight on your part.

@cak I completely agree.

@JLeslie I want to work for the money, because I have nothing to do all summer, because I think it will be good for me, and I think that I will enjoy it. And no, unfortunately, none of my friends even have a job. Even if they did, none of them live nearby.

@Fly All good reasons. I hope you get to do it. :) If not maybe you can do work around your neigborhood? People always need babysitters (you probably do that already?) and I would love to have a neighborhood teenager help me with chores around the house. Not really a maid, but someone to help me while I’m straightening up…I think I would pay $10—$12 for that, not sure what jobs pay these days.

@JLeslie I’m a certified babysitter, but for whatever reason, I have trouble getting jobs in my neighborhood. If I could manage that, I really would have no need for a job.

@Fly I just realized you were the one who asked the babysitting question :). You seem like a fantastic young lady, determined, creative, and well spoken. Try to remember your dad is afraid for your safety, not trying to control you.

@JLeslie Thank you. :)

I would let her do it. For so many reasons. A smart young woman is more responsible than we give them credit for. And usually Dad’s let their overprotective testosterone ridden side speak about matters concerning their daughters first.
I walked to my first job when I was 15 also, it taught me so much.

certainly it isn’t completely safe, but then again, what is? if she has a cellphone, that might make you feel a little more secure. maybe a text when she gets to the workplace, a text when she’s leaving. god, my mum would absolutely insist on that. responsibility, money management skills, income, independence, and street smarts that would come out of it are all really great outcomes, so i would say yes. besides, @Fly sounds super responsible and intelligent already.

He still says no. :(

@augustlan. Okay, I’ve had it. Enough is enough. I’m flying up there to talk to him straightaway. Come hell or high water, we’re going to get permission for your daughter to work even if it kills us me!

I sincerely hope he changes his mind because there is a wealth of positive opinion and support here for you, your daughter, and her aspirations to be employed. Best of luck in finding a positive resolution in this matter.

Awww. I know that must be very frustrating for Fly.

lame! I don’t understand. So whats the magic age for a job? 16? 17? 18? She could be saving up money now for a car or school, that doesn’t seem to matter to him.

That’s… very disappointing. Very disappointing Mr. Ex-Augustlan.

Just tell him the next step is the Jelly Exchange Program. I mean, why have a boring summer when you can spend it stopping all across the US, living with various Jellies? Actually, why stop at the US? Hey! A job is looking better and better all the time.

She can come to the land of Elvis for a week if she wants :).

Yes, extremely frustrating… :(

Hey august. Can you ship fly to CA so she can babysit me while my wife is away? :) I pay well.

When does school start?

@tinyfaery Now there’s an idea! :)

@JLeslie Mid-August… we already pretty much knew it was too late for this year anyway, but were thinking ahead to next summer.

Maybe by next summer your ex will come around. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you and @Fly !

How about getting him to pay her to stay home?

@YARNLADY I was going to say that she should hit her dad up for more allowance money since she has good intentions, but I wasn’t sure whether to write it or not. Now, with your post I thought might as well go ahead. :).

I’m practically 18 and I’ve never had a job. I do a lot of volunteer work, though, so that kind of makes up for it.

So what finally happened?

No job. He said maybe next summer. Maybe.

Poor fly. :(

Next year, little one.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. Well I actually read the question, though I don’t know if the job mentioned is still in play but the next job there are things you can do to have the job be safe, and ease minds if that can even be done. I know it is not like ancient times when I was 15 and went to work I had a part-time job just about every summer between the age of 14 until I graduated.

1st off, just because you are driving don’t make you much safer than if you were on the street. The car only limits the time and opportunity (and in some ways create them) for you to get abducted if you ever were.

There are counter measures you can take. If you had to ride a bike choose a course that passes as many street aimed security cameras as possible even if you had to go an extra ¼ to ⅓ mile out of the way. All except the really stupid would not try to snatch you if there is a greater chance it will be on camera. Get a cell and check in, when you leave home and when you arrive; do the same on the return trip, then an average travel time can be learned. If possible get a motor scooter, you may not even need to have a license and most can travel on surface streets, perfect for a 2 to 4 mile trip. Use Graigslist to maybe find someone to carpool with. Get and learn to use pepper spray. If you can find a job inside a mall which is serviced by mass transit, try to get that. If you think of what you want to avoid, you can think of counter measures that will allow be able to have a job and be safe too.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with waiting one more year for her to get her DL.
She can always do other things like babysit or mow lawns. My hs let students work in the cafeteria, and that’s how I got job experience from ages 14–15.

It’s also very unlikely that she’ll get a job over other ppl that are older than her (unless she already has a possible job lined up). As soon as she turns 16 she’ll have a better chance at getting hired.

UPDATE: My (now 16 year old) daughter got a job lifeguarding at her community pool! She kind of hates it, but she’s doing it. :D
She won’t have her drivers license until about the first of the year, but the pool is so close she can walk.

Thanks for the update.