What should happen to the dog that dragged the newborn into the woods?
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It doesn’t seem to me that the dog wanted to hurt the child by any stretch of the imagination. If he meant to kill it, it was well within his means to do so.
He should definitely not be killed; to expect a dog to know how to behave if given access to a newborn of another species is ludicrous. I admire the father for not blaming the dog for obeying its instincts, and indeed crediting it with restraint. And if it is known, as it is, that the dog did not act abnormally, then it is not a matter of safety or convenience to kill the dog, but one of vengeance, which is ridiculous.
If I were the child’s parent, I would want that dog either dead, or failing that, the hell away from my kid.
Also, parent FAIL.
I just read about that earlier… so sad! I don’t think the dog is vicious, he was just being a dog. He will probably be put down, but I’d rather see him placed in a no children home.
There’s no need to kill a dog for doing what dogs do. If that breed isn’t good with children, the parents should be held responsible for keeping it around a newborn baby.
It bothers me when people humanize their dogs to the extent that they completely lose sight of the fact that they are beasts and have the capacity to act as such.
@peyton_farquhar Can you explain why you think it’s a parenting fail?
I’m not sure where I stand on the issue yet.
The parent is at fault. EPIC FAIL. The dog should be removed to a household where it is more suitable, preferably one without children. Any dog will behave with predatory instincts, and to leave a newborn child alone with a predatory type animal is stupid and thoughtless. Dogs aren’t humans, they are animals. Any breed interbred with wolves is doubly more dangerous than, say a chichuahua. But a chihuahua will bite just as quick as a husky. Anthropomorphizing animals is a dangerous habit to get into.
Clearly the dog cannot be allowed to remain in proximity of the child as it is now a proven risk.
@peyton_farquhar You would want your house pet destroyed because he unknowingly put the newborn in a potentially harmful position, in which he inflicted no intentional harm? Wow I’d hate to be your dog. People who turn their backs so quickly because they do not understand the responsibility of owning a dog should not own one.
@Likeradar do you think the parents are faultless in this matter? Apparently, they left a wild dog alone with their four-day-old infant. Even if they only turned their backs on the animal for a moment, they were still incredibly careless. It is akin to leaving a baby unattended in a bath tub.
@BBSDTfamily yes. If my dog killed my kid (and from the article it looks like the kid stands a high chance of dying because of this awful tragedy) I would shoot the damn thing myself. Do you think you would be able to retain the same level of affection for an animal that killed or almost killed your kid? Wow I’d hate to be your offspring.
[mod says] Flame off folks.
@peyton; You don’t have to love the dog. You also don’t have to take your grief out on it, seeing as all the blame, as you yourself point out, would rest on you as the failure of a parent. What you should do is give the dog to another owner and never set eyes on it again. All this being hypothetical, of course, given the fact that the government takes control of the situation (and does a poor job of it, apparently).
@peyton_farquhar Read the article again and get your facts straight before making statements…. the child is not expected to die. If the family does not want to keep the dog then they can easily turn it over to a rescue group that will place the dog in a much more responsible home. The parents are the only ones who did anything wrong in this situation by allowing the dog too much access to the newborn.
All dogs require discipline. That dog should not have been allowed anywhere near the baby to start with. I don’t believe the dog was at fault here. She was not disciplined and therefore this was the consequence. Some people are always ready to point the finger at someone else but they don’t see what they did wrong. I’m sorry for that baby, but the parents should have been more careful and that dog should have had some boundaries even before that baby was born.
@peyton_farquhar If you were the parent and you did shoot the dog, you would be blaming the dog for your own mistake.
What if your eight year old son stabbed your 5 year old son through the temple with a pencil? That was in the news last year. Would you shoot your own child then, for an action far more serious than the dogs but equally as unknowingly? If you own a dog, you need to take full responsibility and not take out your anger on the dog.
@peyton_farquhar Glad to hear it. Some people (me included) don’t take lightly to people saying they’d pull their dog in the backyard a shoot it though.
No one’s shooting any dogs here.
@BBSDTfamily again, I still would. That said, I love my dog. But wait at least a couple postings before you jump to personal attacks, would you? I said that if I were a parent and my dog killed my kid (or injured my kid), my immediate (irrational, emotional) reaction would be to kill my dog.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic Unfortunately, that is probably what will happen to the creature in the article. Well, he’ll be euthanized, but same outcome. Our government will most likely find it easier to just kill it than to place it in a home where it could thrive.
@peyton_farquhar I understand emotions run high when dealing with the safety of your children. Please if anything remotely close to this ever happens to you (and i hope it doesn’t), try to remember to not deal with situations in anger. It is much better to wait until you can deal logically. Sounds like you would be logical after the initial shock (like most).
@BBSDTfamily If you so that strongly, you could probably contact animal control in Lexington, Ky.and plead for compassion towards the animal. Chances are, after that story many dog lovers are doing the same.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic Very good idea. I hope that one of the national breed rescues for wolf breeds will intervene. That is what we do for bullmastiffs in the ABA.
Many times when there is an instance such as this, they will not turn the animal over to just anyone. A breed-specific group can best help. Making a phone call is definitely within my means though.
@BBSDTfamily Oh, I would, don’t worry. Contrary to what you seem to have asserted I am not a trigger-happy impulsive moron.
@peyton_farquhar that contradicts your post
@BBSDTfamily again, I still would. That said, I love my dog. But wait at least a couple postings before you jump to personal attacks, would you? I said that if I were a parent and my dog killed my kid (or injured my kid), my immediate (irrational, emotional) reaction would be to kill my dog.
After reading zebra’s, peyton’s, and kheredia’s (those posting here who seem to think that dogs should not be left with children at all) responses , I am curious: How many of you flutherers don’t trust your pooch with your kid? I have no kids, but I do know my dog pretty well, and I know that she is disciplined, not at all wild or unpredictable, and loves all the little ones she meets. She’s very patient with the annoying ones. In short, it would never occur to me not to trust her, so I can easily imagine being in those parents’ situation and not thinking twice about leaving my dog alone with my kid. Of course, were I to think about it for a minute and/or read a thread like this one, I’d probably not leave my kid alone with my dog. At least until my kid reached a certain size. But for you dog and kid people, do you leave them alone together? No judgment, just curious. It’d be nice to base our opinions on some evidence here, y’know? :)
I would most definetly not want that dog to be put to sleep!!
He was just a dog, he didn’t actually hurt the baby did he??
@peyton Yeah sorry I didn’t have time to read it since I saw some of you guys were saying you’d kill your dog!!
@wildpotato You did not mention me in that, but I’d like to respond.
I have two bullmastiffs, well over 100 lbs. each and fully capable of killing an infant or adult for that matter, that are the sweetest dogs that ever walked the planet in my opinion. I love these dogs like my own children, and no matter what they did I would never turn my back to them. However, I am expecting a child in February ‘09 and I will never take my eyes off of them if they are within reach of my child. I trust these dogs with my life and would defend them to the end, but I also am compelled to defend my child. I have no reason to believe that my dogs would ever hurt my child, but at the same time they are dogs, and must be supervised.
ADDED ON:
An example of how a well trained dog such as mine could still injure a child and why it needs to be supervised (doesn’t mean we don’t trust our dogs, just means we are being realistic)... If my 5 month old is laying in the living room and my dog is taking watch over it and there is a knock at the door, my dogs could potentially get up quickly and trot to the door to see who the visitor is, while knocking my child over or stepping on him in the process.
@wildpotato: I don’t have kids but both my dogs do great around children. But then again, my dogs are very well mannered and disciplined. I trust them, but I am always aware that they are very powerful animals and they can easily hurt a child because of their strength. I just think all dogs have to have some boundaries and they need to know when to stop.
Wow this actually made me mad
I am SO glad to hear so many positive responses for this dog. I live in the deep south where dogs are not usually treated with as much care and it’s refreshing to remember that there are many people who think the same as I do. We even have people that purposely fight them here. Sad.
@BBSDTfamily oh my, thats horrible! Is there anything you can do to help those poor dogs?
GODDAMMIT NOBODY’S KILLING THEIR DOGS
@peyton Yeah I know!! It’s just that I would never think of doing that!! And I find it hard to believe some people actually would. I’m not singling anyone out, if you think I am then thats your problem not mine
@kheredia Yes, call the police if you know of a particular place where this is going on, but it is illegal so usually kept very secretive. I have done it several times though to one person that I know fights pit bulls. Also, we have a no-kill shelter where these dogs can be taken if they can be rehabilitated, and there are many programs out there for adopting these animals but come with strict guidelines (as they should). It is very sad. Many times when the dogs are rescued they are in such poor shape from being fought and going w/o medical attention that euthanizing them is a blessing to them. Also, dogs are stolen from homes, maliciously adopted from shelters, etc. to act as practice bait. It is terrible, and to me unimaginable how anyone could participate. It goes on all over the country though, just is concentrated down here. There are various organizations you can volunteer for and donate to if you’d like.
I can understand @peyton_farquhar sentiments on this. We do tend to be irrational when it comes to someone hurting our babies. She said she wouldn’t do it, it was just her initial reaction… I get that.
As a parent and as a dog-owner, one of the first things I learned was never to leave a house pet alone with a baby or a toddler. Ever. You cannot trust either one to treat the other with the restraint you would want. Kid hurts the animal, it snaps, the animal gets blamed. Animal reacts normally towards a small, funny-smelling new creature in the house, kid gets hurt, the animal gets blamed.
Three of my dogs are just fine around people of all ages and sizes, as well as cats and other dogs. I don’t know about the American Bulldog because she has never seen a human being shorter than 5 feet tall. The pit bull wouldn’t mean to hurt a child, but he is very strong and active and would knock a child over. As a result, if small children are coming to our house, the dogs are isolated from the children.
Parents should never, ever leave their small children unsupervised around pets or vice versa.
If and when I become a parent I imagine I will have the momma-bear reaction to anything that hurts my babies. But please don’t slander me; I am not a dog killer.
Now I’m going to bed.
Wolf-dog hurts baby, wolf-dog goes to wolf haven, where they take in wolves, or wolf-dog goes to pound.
I am a big animal lover and watch a lot of Animal Planet and also anytime there are interviews with animal trainers and each and every single one of them has emphatically stated what Darwin said. Animals and babies (or young children) should absolutely NEVER be left together unsupervised, no matter how well trained the animal is. NEVER.
I think the keyword in this story is “newborn” and yes the parents are totally responsible for what happened. It matters little that the dog was fine with their older children——a four day old baby should never be unsupervised for any reason (does the phrase “crib death” ring any bells?) Most especially an animal, whether part-wolf or Shitzu or good natured Golden Retriever should never be alone with any young child or newborn. I don’t know whether their fault was due to ignorance or laziness but the end result was the same.
I feel so sorry for both the child and the poor dog and hope that rational heads will prevail in re-homing him rather than killing him.
On a related note——did anyone see the program on Nat. Geo. Channel about the rehabilitation of the dogs rescued from Michael Vicks’ hell hole. Most people were assuming that they would just automatically be euthanized, but some breed-specific volunteers with much experience intervened and implored the court to allow them to work with the dogs. It was truly a heartwarming documentary and may give some hope to this situation.
Give it a medal for trying to solve the overpopulation crisis.
The parents were total idiots, a tiny baby can excite the prey drive of the most docile dog.
Youtube is full of clips of people allowing their children to climb all over huge dogs and it is simply asking for trouble. The dogs could crush the babies skulls with one bite. Then the dog gets put down when in fact the humans should be put down instead.
I am a realist, if the dog did it once, it would probably do it again. How can anyone make sure that dog will never get close to a child again. It should probably be put down, but again the ones that should really be put down are the parents.
I have a dingo mix who weighs in at around 40 pounds so not a big dog, but her prey drive is so strong. She has never shown aggression towards anyone but I never let her near children unless she is on a leash and in a sit stay. Accidents happen very quickly and I don’t want to have to have my dog put to sleep because I was momentarily distracted.
I can’t help but think about an incident that happened in North Carolina in 1995 when I was working with big cats. A local family had a pet tiger that they liked to walk on a leash. Not surprisingly, the tiger eventually mauled their 4 or 5 year old son. Rather than help his bleeding son (who suffered permanent brain damage and lost his eyesight) and screaming wife, the father walked to his truck, pulled out a .22, and proceeded to shoot the tiger (who was no longer anywhere near the child) several times. When the police arrived, the tiger was still alive, flailing from it’s injuries. and had to be destroyed.
The father received no punishment for the colossal and criminal stupidity of having a pet tiger, and having a pet tiger around children (it was determined that he had “suffered enough”) and the tiger was shot. Where is the sense in that?
@peyton_farquhar as a parent, I understand 100% your gut reaction to this situation, honestly I would probably have the same reaction. However, as I don’t have a gun, I would settle for calling animal control (after the baby was stable and being taken care of – not like the ignoramus in @syz‘s story). I am bummed out about those jumping all over peyton for this opinion, this is a four day-old baby, of course the reaction to its mauling is going to visceral.
All that being said, the parents are 100% responsible for this tragedy. I don’t care how well a dog is trained, if it has no experience with newborn babies (which according to this article, was the case with this dog) it should not be let anywhere near said newborn. Period. I was particularly struck by the fact that this animal had dragged things from the house pretty regularly – regularly enough for the father to know where to look – and they still let it in that baby’s room! Come on people (Mouse says to the parents), use the brain God gave you!
I see no reason why the dog should be put down, but I do think it should be far, far away from children forever.
Ohhh Wow..I didn’t know about this article until I just read this and I DO NOT want the dog to be destroyed,I think they could just give the dog a good home where there are no babies at all and I was just…shocked
Right from day the day I was born I was surrounded by lots of dogs (mostly Flatcoated Retrievers but also Spaniels, Collies and Mutts). The dogs were always trusted around me and I was always trusted around the dogs. There were many times when, so that my family would know where I was at all times they would stick me in the kennel with one of the dogs. There was NEVER a problem because it was drilled into my tiny brain from day one how to respect these animals. I learnt so much from these dogs (even how to walk. Tramp had a very curly coat and I used to pull myself to standing on his curls (he never once complained bless him, I hope now that I didn’t hurt him) and he would walk very very slowly until eventually I did it on my own).
Anyway, of course you would never allow a child that much freedom around dogs now for the dogs sake as much as the childs and no matter how much I think I can trust my dogs I would never leave any of them alone with a child. Most children don’t know how far they can push a dog before it’s too late and it doesn’t matter how much the dog was provoked it will always get the blame if a child is attacked and usually this ends in the dog being euthanised.
In this particular cas obviously the child wasn’t at fault at all. In fact the only people that were are fault are the parents. If they were not in the room with the dog and baby then there is no way that dog should have been able to get anywhere near the cot. Doors shut for a reason people!
I will be very saddened if I hear the dog is euthanised for this. The child was not mauled and even if it’s life was/is at risk it doesn’t sound like any of the injuries the dog gave it were intentional. I hope the dog is placed in a more responsible and knowledgable home and I hope the baby makes a full recovery.
@SuperMouse look around, common sense is not so common anymore. As someone up there mentioned, the prey drive of a dog is always just below the surface.
I’ve watched my JRT go after rodents and birds with a drive that made her unstoppable. She refused all commands and ended up killing the small creature. She killed one of our beloved neighborhood Mourning Doves just the other day. I was sick for the poor bird, but the prey drive overcame her training. I had to run over to her and physically pull her off the dead bird. She is normally a well trained animal, has a certificate for Pet Therapy, and is licensed to go to nursing homes, hospitals and such to do her ‘work’.
But, she is still a predator, and she will attack and kill anything she deems as prey. If this dog in the story is not well trained (and many people do NOT take their pets to Obedience Training because they are lazy, or stupid, or arrogant enough to think they can do it on their own) then that is why this happened. Some people shouldn’t have pets, and some people shouldn’t have kids, and sometimes, its the same person. The people in this story are obviously morons.
Children shouldn’t suffer because their parents are boneheaded idiots.
And as someone up there mentioned about fighting dogs, well those people should get the electric chair. Michael Vick is one guy that should be the first in line. Anyone who fights animals for pleasure and profit doesn’t deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of us.
How awful! For the dog and family, the dog looks so scared…he probably doesn’t even understand what he did wrong.
I hope they don’t put the dog down, but they probably will :( He needs a home without children, or little children.
This is why you DO NOT leave your children unattended or out of eye sight… if NOT put someplace COMPLETELY secure… Its just too bad..I think the dog should find a home without childeren
The dog has been transported to Jessamine Humane Society 859–887-1577. I’m trying to find out if the dog is going to be placed for adoption. If you have sympathy for this dog please call and express your concern and hopefully the right family will get this dog.
Sorry the number is 1–859-881–0821. They are receiving a large volume of calls about Dakota and she is not up for adoption yet, but thank God people around the country are rallying together in support of her!!
Now if only there were any indication that the Smiths learned not to leave a baby alone with a family pet, no matter what size or how tame the pet is.
@Darwin you took the words right out of my mouth. At least the dad seems to be intent on not letting the dog back in the house.
But they still have another dog, a lab of some sort.
I hope the dog gets a loving home. I do wonder what the parents were thinking, and what they’ll do with their other dog. I mean, we didn’t even leave our cats alone with our young son, because you never ever know how an animal will react.
It’s interesting that there’s support for the dog but where’s the support for the mauled baby with massive head trauma?
@The_Compassionate_Heretic – I am intrigued by that as well, but I think there are plenty of people who are saying kill the dog, they just aren’t as vocal. I think the dog and the baby were the innocent victims, the parents are the culpable ones.
But that said, who hasn’t done something they have lived to deeply regret. Whether it is taking an eye off the baby for just a second and it is in just that second that some sort of disaster strikes. And how many of us have been oh so lucky to have not had the disaster strike when we took that second away.
This type of thing always reminds me, in a crass sort of way, that old line about “hey, I don’t deal the deck down here, just play the cards.” And there are so many ways to play them and so many different ways they play out.
I think it’s because the question was “What should happen to the dog that dragged the newborn into the woods?” Of course people have compassion for the innocent baby, but that wasn’t what the question was.
@The_Compassionate_Heretic; of course people care about the baby and think it needs support; it goes without saying, so it needn’t be said. Unless you are suggesting that one cannot support the dog while also caring about the baby, then presumably it should be expected that people answer the actual question and discuss something that might possibly stand debate.
I support the dog and the baby. I hope neither dies.
The thing is that the parents aren’t supporting either their dog or their baby. Folks are told over and over and over again not to leave a baby unattended around the family dog. And that is precisely what they did, causing harm to their child and labeling their dog as “dangerous” and “in need of killing.”
No one here does not feel awful about the baby. But the dog is innocent here, too. The adult human beings are the culpable ones in this case, but nothing will happen to them. They hand the dog over, let insurance pay to heal the child, and go on about their merry way, not even stopping to think that their other dog could do the same thing if left alone with a small child.
@Darwin it is very worrying that they have another dog but one can only hope that they learn from this and keep a watchful eye on the Labrador and the baby in the future.
@Leanne1986 I agree that the baby shouldn’t go unattended with any dog ever. However, I could be wrong but I don’t believe a labrador has the same instincts as a wolf hybrid breed. One has been domesticated for ages, while one has not.
@BBSDTfamily – a lab is a hunting dog, domesticated or not, it has high prey drive as do most dogs except some of the little toy breeds. It is foolish to let any child alone with, get in the face of, harass a dog with teeth. I don’t care what breed it is. It only takes 1 blink of an eye for a dog to momentarily lose its cool and do serious damage.
Always better to be safe than sorry!
Every professional animal trainer whom I have ever heard speak on this subject states that they do not leave THEIR OWN young children unattended with any of their own animals, no matter how well trained or for how long they have had them. Obviously they would be the experts on the subject and I’m perfectly willing to take their advice.
As Darwin (I believe) previously mentioned, children can be as unpredictable as the dogs and you really can’t predict what wacky kinds of ideas will sometimes pop into their adorable little heads.
The breed matters little as even those little toy breeds can get quite neurotic and nippy and are frequently the least likely to be trained by their owners because they are “so little and cute” But, a bite is still a bite and can mess up a child’s face in a major way and traumatize them for life.
It’s just not that difficult to separate the two if there will not be an adult present——that’s why God created doors.
@BBSDTfamily I agree 100% with @rooeytoo and @Buttonstc, I don’t care what the breed maybe, it’s asking for trouble to leave a child that young and a dog alone together. I have seen some very bad injuries caused by a Labrador. Any dog is capable of inflicting horrendous injuries on a person whether it’s deliberate or not. I go by the “Deed not Breed” rule.
@Leanne1986 and @rooeytoo and @Buttonstc My first sentence above was that I agree a dog shouldn’t be left alone with a child, so you’re all preaching to the choir here.
@BBSDTfamily Not really because despite saying that you agreed that a baby and a dog shouldn’t be left alone together you also gave me the impression that leaving a baby with a Labrador would be safer than with a wolf hybrid which is why I felt it necessary to reply.
@Leanne1986 Because like I said in my opinion, it is. I said I could be wrong, but I personally would feel more comfortable w/ the lab if I had to choose…. but like I said I don’t agree w/ ever leaving a child alone with any sort of dog. I’m entitled to my opinion, not trying to state facts.
@BBSDTfamily No need to get defensive about it. I can understand why you think a Labrador would be safer, in theory it probably should be but having seen damage done by a Labrador I don’t think any dog should be considered safe (or unsafe in many cases) just because of the breed.
I was just contributing to the conversation by telling you why I didn’t completely agree (I say “completely” because I agree with you that, in theory a Labrador should be safer but it doesn’t always work out that way) with what you said, I too am entitled to an opinion.
The reason I am so passionate about this is because, being a dog trainer myself, I so often hear of dog “attacks” and then hear the excuse “we thought everything would be ok because our dog is (insert breed) and they are supposed to be friendly”. I wish I could beat people for saying that!
I also disagreed with you because you said that a Labrador doesn’t have the same instincts as a wolf hybrid. You are not completely wrong as the closer the dog is to being wild obviously the stronger the instincts (whatever they are) will be. But you will be surprised by just how strong the natural instincts of any domesticated dog really are. A lot of people forget that or worse, don’t realise it in the first place (I’m not saying you are one of those people) and this often leads to situations such as this one.
Basically when it comes to any dog, there is no such thing as safe (which, before you jump down my throat, I can see that you are aware of).
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