Is is true that some people are honest 100% of the time?

YES,

remember, you can be honest by keeping your opinion to yourself

I’d be lying if I answered “yes”

Where yes = no; yes.

Honestly, I really don’t think so. Some lies are very much ingrained into our culture—they don’t necessarily lie through boldfaced lies, but they lie through omission (and perhaps consider themselves clever or honest for doing so) or by convention.

I’m not sure if I’m 100% honest (not counting April Fool’s jokes etc), but I think I’m pretty close. I find it impossible to say “he’s not here” when someone calls, though I may have managed it a couple of times (and of course the caller knew I was lying). It’s not so much that I am against lying (which of course I am), but that I can’t do it. I’m like DrSpock or something.
Keeping my mouth shut (like DrBill said) is also hard, but at least I can do that sometimes.

Maybe there are, but I think that such people will have trouble socialising. faintly remembers a movie with jim carrey that had that topic.
It is my opinion that in certain situations lies are necessary to ensure proper societal operations.

What about when it comes to a paradox?

Let’s have a fun example here. A, B, C, D. A is a person accompanying his friend B who is very much infatuated with C and it seems like they will be dating soon. D is a nosy friend who always wants to know what’s going on with B and C, but isn’t there, so she communicates by text to A. D wants to know if they are kissing. When they do, A tells D that they are. B wants to know what A is texting about. A lies and says he is talking about hanging out with D. But A also told D that he wouldn’t tell B or C about what D was saying. So, if he told B the truth about what he was texting, he would’ve lied to D and broken a promise.

So, what do you do?

By the way, this was a true story. I am A. D is my best female friend. B and C are friends who recently became boyfriend and girlfriend.

I doubt it very highly. If nothing else, most everyone lies to themselves about something or another. When I think about honesty, I’m referring to things like not cheating (on a spouse or your taxes, etc), not stealing, not being deceitful to those you care about. I’m not talking about whether to tell the telemarketer that the person he’s calling for isn’t in.

@DominicX

It is private.

@ragingloli

I do not know of any instant that would justify a lie as necessary.

I’m honest 90% of the time. The other 10% is dedicated to me trying diligently not to put myself into a situation where I would have to lie.

@DrBill

I know, but if I told B “I can’t tell you what I’m talking about”, he knows I’m talking about him, because otherwise I would just tell him. And so, that’s why I lied and made it seem like I was not talking about him. I don’t do this all the time, don’t worry. But you can see why it wasn’t easy to get out of this situation.

Always telling the truth is not what it’s cracked up to be. If I ask my daughter if these pants make me look fat, she’d better say “no.” If someone asked me what my pin number is on my credit card, I would be an idiot to tell them! What if a relative that you don’t trust asks you for your new address. Can you say, “no, because I don’t want you to know where I live”? Why the goal, Yarnlady? I can see someone wanting to do this if they discover that they have become a habitual liar or something. The rest of us only lie when necessary.

@DominicX

Being honest is not easy, if it was more people would do it.

@Skaggfacemutt

That isn’t really telling the truth, though. Not telling someone your PIN isn’t lying. You’re not lying about anything. Lying would be telling them a false PIN. You can refuse to tell someone something; it’s not lying.

I hope not. Honesty is not always productive. When people enjoy what they are doing or wearing for instance, what good would it do if I tell them they are failing in my opinion?

Would you tell your friend you feel she has little chance of success at her upcoming job interview, or that she has no one but herself to blame after her boyfriend left her?

@DrBill
I used that in another thread, but here goes.
Example 1:
It is 1942. You are hiding a jew in your basement. SS officer knocks at the door and asks if you hide jews in your house. Will you lie, or will you betray the jew and condemn him to death?

Example 2:
You are a muslim. It is a dark night and you are going home from work. You run across a gang who just killed a muslim because of his religion. They come over to you and ask you if you are a muslim. Will you lie or will you accept your death?

Example 3:
You are taking a walk with a friend who happens to be gay.
You run across a bunch of Fred Phelpian Christian fundamentalists who just beat a guy to to a pulp with a baseball bat because he was gay. They turn to you and ask you if either one of you is homosexual. Your gay friend lies to protect himself and says “no”.
How will you answer?

Example 4:
You are at school during a school shooting. The gunman has you and your classmates kneeling on the floor. He goes through the row and asks everyone whether he/she is a christian and pops everyone in the head who says yes.
Then it is your turn. You are a christian. What will you answer?

Okay Dominicx, then tell me how you would respond to the unwanted relative? I ask because this happened to me a couple weeks ago. He is the cousin of my deceased husband, and just wants to come over to make a nuisance of himself and hit on me. He asked if I moved, or if I was in the same house. I told him I was in the same house. Lie-lie-lie. What else could I do?

@Skaggfacemutt

I’m not really the one to ask. I would lie. I don’t want someone bothering me. I’m not 100% honest. And I’m being honest about that.

@DominicX re: You can refuse to tell someone something; it’s not lying.

I don’t think that holds water all the time.

When I asks you for confirmation on what I wear or on how my last presentation went down and you’d rather refrain from comment that won’t go down as well as… hey pretty good.

In that sense, I feel that corporate America is prime example where 100% honesty will make your career very shortlived. If my fomer CEO said “I can see you put a lot of work into that… very interesting” you’d better understand that you need to redo your work. Whereas if a Dutch boss would say… “not bad”, that means great. This difference in standard levels of honesty has proven to be a good foundation for some very amusing misunderstandings

@ragingloli Your examples are exactly why I stated my ‘goal’ is 100%. There are extremely unlikely circumstances when a 100% isn’t attainable. However, with that goal in mind, being honest simply becomes second nature and habitual. One doesn’t have to stop and think about it, just as any automatic movement. When you put your hand on a hot stove, do you want to stop and think about whether you should move it or not?

When confronted with an impossible situation, such as the ones you have stated, it becomes a different story. The goal is no longer one of lying or not lying, but evaluating the possible outcomes, and choosing the one that you like the most.

@YARNLADY
I think it is always about possible outcomes and which you prefer. Sure a lot of scenarios can be covered with a predetermined blanket decision, but alot can not. And it does not have to be such an extreme scenario as the ones I presented. It can be a much less dire situation and you would still be well advised to consider possible outcomes.

@whitenoise Again, not lying is not the same as being brutally honest. In your examples, the honest thing would be to suggest some ways to improve any interview. You cannot forsee the future, so why pretend you can? As for the boyfriend thing, I would suggest counseling to find out what happened, after all, I’m no expert on personal relationships.

It’s a little harder to find something nice to say without lying, such as does this make me look fat, the answer should be you look good in that color/style. If people in your own family make you lie to them, you have worse issues than lying.

I don’t know if I would call it an issue as much as I would call it a situation. It doesn’t mean that I have issues because my husband has a stupid cousin. You don’t get to pick your own relatives, and certainly don’t get to pick your husband’s relatives.

@YARNLADY Why would you put so much value to always being honest? Shouldn’t we differentiate on being honest when it truly matters and rather think about intent?

When I feel grumpy, should I behave grumpy and tell everyone to sod off? Or should I just put up my happy face. What is wrong with answering ‘nothing’ when someone asks you ‘what’s wrong?’ when you really don’t want to talk about it?

Why tell the truth when the truth is cruel and adds no value to the grieving mother that lost a child due to the child being stupid?

In short (and again)... why do you put so much value to ‘100% honesty’? I would much more prefer intent

I was once told that I am “brutally” honest. But I tell lies when it is convenient, like the he’s not home sort of thing.

Does this mean I am not a good person or I am doomed to everlasting damnation???

@YARNLADY re:“interview [...] You cannot forsee the future, so why pretend you can? As for the boyfriend thing, I would suggest counseling to find out what happened, after all, I’m no expert on personal relationships.”

You don’t really mean to suggest counseling to just anyone who feels lousy after breaking up with a lousy boyfriend? Life isn’t that seriously hard and shouldn’t be. Many of life’s issues don’t merrit attention and are actually often better off without.

And for instance when people set off for the interview, you really think they would be better off when I tell them i think they’ll fail? No, I will lie and tell them I have confidence in them, realizing that expressing my true feelings would at that moment better no one but my own ego.

@ragingloli

Example 1:
I would take option 3, and tell the truth and save his life. You cannot test honesty be forcing them to choose between only the limited options you choose.

Example 2:
I am not Muslim.

Example 3:
I’m not gay. I do not have to answer for my friend, as he has already answered for himself.

Example 4:
As I have had training to deal with situations like this, I would revert to that training. I would not deny my religion.

NOTE: if you want to test honesty, don’t limit how they are allowed answer.

@whitenoise I being redundant here – 100% honesty does not mean the same thing as being meanspirited. The goal is to keep people from saying “It’s ok if I lie here, it only cheats the company” or “It’s for her own good” or “Everybody does it”. These are everyday excuses to not be a responsible, reasonable person.

When you are feeling bad, it is not a “lie” to put on a happy face. I stongly recommend it, because it says I respect the people I meet enough to not force my bad feelings on them. A smile does not have to mean “I am happy” it can just as easily mean “I wish you happiness.”

The only reason being honest without being mean (or dishonest) is because people are too ready to make up excuses for not being honest.

P.S. I absolutely did not recommend that you tell your friend he would fail his interview. Please only respond to what I do say, not putting words that are not there.

@DrBill
1. SS officers never travel alone, and they are armed, you are not. how exactly would you save his life with a bullet in your head?
2. This is a hypothetical situation, which means in that scenario you ARE a muslim.
4. Again, hypothetical situation. Schoolboys usually don’t have military training. In that scenario you are a schoolboy and have no military training.
But let’s change a small detail. The gunman asks you wether your neighbour is a christian. (and incidentally, both are)

Another thing. don’t assume that the acting person in any of the scenarios is you. Assume that it is an average person who you know nothing about. Would any of the situations justify them to lie?

I love how people can’t handle hyoptheticals. It’s hypothetical for a reason. It’s saying “what if”. If you can’t come up with a solution to it, it often means that there isn’t one.

@ragingloli
1. As you say I have a bullet in my head, I would be dead.
2. As stated above, I would not deny my religion.
4. As stated above, I would not deny my religion, I cannot see into another’s heart, I would honestly answer “I do not know what they believe.”

@DrBill
Fine but would any other person than you be justified to lie in any of these scenarios?

I have a question: if your honesty ends up or would end up harming someone else, how do you weigh which one is worth more?

@DominicX you mean, your ego, or the result of your action?

@ragingloli

Everyone must decide for themselves, what life they wish to live.

@DominicX So how does a question about someone being 100% always end up being about when should people lie. See, that’s what I’m asking about. People would much rather come up with reason to lie, which apparently is much easier for them, than ways to tell the truth, even when it seems impossible.

Here’s a hypothetical for you – How would you get out of lying in the stories you have set up?

No one is 100% honest 100% of the time.
And a lie of ommission is still a lie.

@YARNLADY

I don’t know how. That’s why I’m saying I would lie. Lying to protect someone else is not a big deal for me. What’s a bigger sin? Knowing that you killed someone indirectly or lying? You have to be a master craftsman to get out of those situations. People here don’t seem to know how to do it either. And besides, you can say how you would act in those situations all you want, but until you’re actually in those situations, you don’t know what you’re going to do.

@YARNLADY Sorry for having indeed advocated lying in response to your question. It stems from your statement of 100% honesty. That 100% indicates that you should always be honest. That dogma puts you so far out on an extreme of the scale that anyone not fully agreeing with you can do nothing but advocate the well intended use of a lie.
BTW, if you would know me better, than you would also know that I put great value on honesty, even to the extent that I quite often make life harder for myself. I am not so much advocating to lead a dishonest life. It is just that black nor white are the right choices for a fruitful life. Life is as always gray and staying tue to yourself in that.

it is really frustrating that some people go to such great lenghts to avoid answering a question.

they could go their whole life being honest and owning up to anything bad they do.

@ragingloli i guess being honest about honesty isn’t that easy…

@whitenoise it sure seems so.
I mean, all it does is show that they know that their position is flawed.

Strangely enough a person may be 100% honest with others but I don’t believe for a second that everyone is 100% honest with themselves.

I know several very, very honest people who sometimes blur the lines of truth.
The most honest person I know couldn’t bring himself to answer honestly at a crucial moment, and probably saved the lives of several people on my crew (including me) from a crazy boss I had.

I really think we constantly do, especially myself. I try and pride myself on being honest, but as GI Gurdjieff once said – mankind is asleep most the time and doesn’t remember himself-always trying to bury the dog deeper. So, you may think you are being honest, then some time later, you may perceive it completely different.
My brother during rough times I remember telling me about a respected adviser he was seeing and the jist of what the guy said was more often, truth can be gleaned from the opposite of what people tell you.

lurve for Gurdjieff. glad to see he still has some adherents out there.

Taliesin is the place for me, I really should go see it this summer, now that place is truth in architecture.

If I was honest with people 100%, I’d be just as unpopular as I am sometimes – because, after all, I am honest 99% of the time. People don’t like that no matter what they say. They think I’m intimidating because I don’t do small talk. I answer honestly to small talk questions and it turns out I’m anti-social because I don’t play along. But it gets exhausting and people aren’t genuine and it’s hard to find genuine people. Nobody actually cares how my weekend went, nobody actually thinks that shirt looks ‘slimming’, etc. Maybe I’m a cynic, but cynicism’s never failed me. The truth I see is in my children and in my loves eyes.

I try to be honest as much as possible, or atleast when it counts. Sometimes not telling someone the truth is the best thing for them, or your friendship for that matter. I just want my peers to know that when it comes down to it, they can trust me.