Is it okay to get a YHWH tattoo?

pray about and see what Jesus says. Then base your decision on that.

Do what you like, but I would wear a wool sweater when in the presence of a person who follows Judaism. Or, just get a symbol that is more relevant to your own religion.

well there would be, I assume, a variety of opinions on this – whether they’re ‘informed’ is a different debate – I believe that in the Jewish tradition, tattoos are off-limits so since you’re Christian then it’s okay…though I’m pretty sure there are Christians who think tattoos denigrate the body as well…and you will always find a person who hates what you ‘did to yourself with that crap’ but so what – it’s your body and your devotion and you express it however it feels right

@efritz the unpronounceable name of the Hebrew god YHWH is very much applicable to Christianity… the extreme “can’t destroy a piece of paper that bears the name” rule is Jewish. Hence the base of this entire question.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir “ps- I am not concerned about the arguments for/against christians getting tattoos in general, but for these letters specifically.”

What’s with “G-d” if you’re a Christian?

@patg7590 I am aware of the meaning and use of YHWH. I am just saying it is a much more prominent principle in Judaism than Christianity, which is why I say it is “more relevant” to Judaism.

@patg7590 oh no I read that..but since the letters are related, obviously, I don’t see why anyone but Christians would find them problematic

Only you know what this would mean. You may intend it to be transgressive, you may intend it to be worshipful. I think it would be rude if you pronounced the Tetragrammatron aloud, as there is an injunction against that in the Ten Commandments.

@pdworkin i know this is a tangent but tetragrammatron, that’s an awesome name for a video game

@Facade God=G-d it is a reference to the sacred name movement, some people believe that the name of God is so sacred that it shouldn’t be written down so flippantly.

@efritz gotcha- yeah thats why im wondering if it would be considered blasphemous by people of either faith, maybe one more than the other.

@pdworkin is having it tattooed hugely on my back the same as pronouncing it?

thanks all for your input! any pastors out there want to give there piece? and rabbis that would admit to stabbing me if they saw this? lol

@pdworkin it’s against using God’s name in vain, not at all. there’s a difference. Why would the Lord’s Pray say “hallowed be thy name” if it was wrong to pronounce it?

If you want to know how I feel about it, I don’t really care for the idea, but it’s your body, your wish, and your intention that matters.

I have no standing to tell you what to do; neither has any Pastor, Priest or Rabbi.

@eponymoushipster – because it is SO hallowed that mere mortals are not fit to pronounce it. I think.

@efritz lol, unless you were being serious. then, I’m sorry

The more conservative Jews I know typically find tattoos using Hebrew letters or that have references to Jewish culture distasteful, since Jewish tradition frowns upon tattoos. As far as the letters, most Jews I know think that non-Jews using the letters YHWH is kind of dumb. We don’t really ever use those, we use El or Adonai.

but that’s just my Jewish opinion for you. If you like the tattoo, you should get it, regardless of what others think.

@efritz don’t think so.

@La_chica_gomela do you not use the name because of how holy it is or do you just prefer the other ones or what? can u explain it to me?

@eponymoushipster No one knows how those four letters are pronounced, nor are they pronounced in the Lord’s Prayer or anywhere else I can think of in Scripture.There is a 5,000 year tradition of not pronouncing them. Not everyone believes that this is important, but a sincerely religious person would be very distressed to hear you try to say that word. In Hebrew when we see those letters we say Adonai, or Hashem, or sometimes I have even heard Adhoshem, but I have NEVER heard them pronounced as a word.

@pdworkin well, no one argues how Joseph, Jesus or Abraham are pronounced and they’re based on the same grammatical rules.

The ban on pronouncing the Divine Name is a rabbinical tradition, as is much of current jewish “Law”, and not part of the original Law given thru Moses.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir (and eponymoushipster, I guess) – yes, that was a lol-worthy post :)

Yes. I just said it is a 5000 year tradition, and that very religious people would get upset. Please use a capital “J” when you write the word Jewish. I would never think of writing Christ with a small c.

Many Jewish people would be offended. Regarding if it is “sinful” or not, I lean towards no because you are trying to honor or represent God, but I strongly agree with @evelyns_pet_zebra, pray about it! You have to see what the holy spirit tells you.

Personally I like the idea. (though I don’t intend to steal it)

I would be very wary of taking on a permanent marking that might prove to be troublesome in several ways and possibly have an effect contrary to the one you intend.

How about if you tried something else first? How about if you either got a temporary tattoo in a conspicuous place, such as forearm, or had the characters put on a T-shirt in the same position where you propose to wear it on your back, and just see what kind of reactions you get? This might help you think about whether you want to go all the way with this idea or find another way of expressing your devotion.

@Jeruba I agree. Don’t get the tattoo, especially since its something as controversial as this. You’re probably going to regret it in a few years.

There’s also a general principle, one I happen to respect greatly, about choosing between or among alternatives: if in doubt, it is often wisest to take the choice that is reversible. If you don’t get the tattoo now, you can always do it later. If you do get it, you can’t undo it. Better be sure beyond any doubt whatsoever before you go ahead.

I don’t know specifically what other people would think about that tattoo but this is some great advice: when you found a tatoo you want, pray about it for two years. If you feel it’s still something you need to get, go for it. If not, good thing you didn’t get it lol.

I kinda think it’s disrespectful to Jews, but it’s your body.

Some background on what Jews think of the word:
-Not allowed to be pronounced (no one knows the correct pronunciation)
-If a book contains that name of God, no other books may be placed on top of it
-A book containing that name of God is kissed when closed (after study, for example)
-If a book containing that name is accidentally dropped, it is also kissed
-Any piece of paper with that name is forbidden to be thrown away or burned (they must be buried, like a human body)

Due to the Jewish prohibition on self-mutilation (which is what tattooing is considered), this almost works out to be doubly blasphemous.

I always think a person should be careful about doing something permanent which might be hurtful to other people.

I’m not a Jew, and am an ex-Christian, but I appreciate that you’re asking this question.

But really all Christian doctrine and tradition wouldn’t be there if it weren’t for Judaism, and you follow the teaching of a Jew. And I think that any truly devout religious person wouldn’t let the actions of any one else weaken or frighten them. They may think less of you, but you, as a Christian, shouldn’t be bothered by that either.

That’s just my circular two cents. : )

i appreciate all of this input so much, thank you all.
I really want to get it… I will be praying about it, i dont know if I can put off doing it two years though, im not typically the person who waits things out… (im 19 and getting married at the end of this month if thats any indication)

any additional thoughts are as always greatly appreciated.

@Jeruba great idea with the shirt! i will definitely try that. Now if only I knew ANYONE at all who is Jewish…hmmm…

@patg7590, you know that you can supply your own art work for custom T-shirts, right? It should not be too hard to find the Tetragrammaton online in a downloadable form that you can convert into a graphic.

Do you seriously mean that you don’t know any Jewish person? There are many in this community. Was that remark meant to suggest that you want the opinion of someone Jewish or that you are looking for a source of the Hebrew letters?

And what, if you don’t mind my asking, did you mean by your reference to “branding” in your question? Not about literally branding yourself, I think—or is it? Is your idea that you want to be branded for God? Or are you using it in a marketing sense?

@Jeruba yes I am a graphic design major and have made many shirts.

I honestly don’t know a single Jewish person. I meant while wearing the shirt, I would try to get the opinion of a Jewish person, but I don’t know any personally.

and I mean branding in the literal sense, as a sign of ownership. as in “branded by God”, I would never whore out the unspeakable name of God for a marketing ploy. This tattoo would basically be the centerpiece to a series of smaller, related tattoos- as in everything points to or is subject to this one.

@patg7590 ok..

As a Christian, you are certainly free to get a tattoo. But that isn’t the heart of your question, or, I think, your desire.

If it is your desire to be “branded” I would remind you that you were branded by God at your baptism. In the waters of baptism God called you as God’s own and placed a mark upon you. That mark will last longer than any tattoo.

If you interest is in doing something that is to the glory of God, then my recommendation would be to skip the tattoo and instead do something for the poor people in your community in God’s name. That may not have the lasting impact on you that a tattoo would have, but it would bring glory to God and be in keeping with the message of the Gospel.

@FrogOnFire I know that it sounds like something people say often, but I have a lot of tattoos and know a lot of tattooed people and no one regrets their tattoos…there’s no reason that all of us ‘will regret it in a few years’ – that’s just a stereotype

@patg7590, my guess is that once you put this shirt on you will meet several Jewish people.

I did not mean to suggest that you were proposing a marketing ploy. I asked if you were using the term “branding” in a marketing sense, meaning establishing a highly recognizable identity—branding yourself. I thought you might want to brand yourself in this differentiating-from-others sense by putting the name of God on your body, which I would take to mean that you saw yourself as closer to God than others—literally wearing his name on your person as if it were your own. (Other people wear things that display their own names or affiliations, and you wear God’s name.) How people would receive this affirmation of status might be one of the unintended effects of your action. Also just consider for a moment how it would be if, whether through your own fault or not, you should somehow come to be in disgrace and how you would feel about taking the name of God down with you.

I am not a religious person. In fact, I am an atheist. But I have a strong-to-the-point-of-suffocation Christian background and do retain a lot of respect for honest people of genuine faith. To me @torch81 sounds like one of those, and I would urge you to give serious thought to his or her comments. God won’t need to see your label, and Christians through the centuries have marked themselves as true followers of Jesus not by what they wore but by their deeds.

It’s fine with me. I can’t read the minds of anyone else.

“God won’t need to see your label,”

The reasoning behind this tattoo is makes me think of this passage here:

4“Hear, O Israel:(E) The LORD our God, the LORD is one.[b] 5You(F) shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6And(G) these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. 7(H) You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. 8(I) You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9(J) You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

You see it is not for God so much as it is for me.

not so that I don’t forget…but so that it becomes part of who I am.

Does that make sense?

@patg7590 it does make sense, it doesn’t have to make sense to me, though, just to you

@patg7590 out of show and misapplication of Scripture, many Jews (captial J, mmmkay, whoever) made/make cases to wear on their foreheads and hands with the Law inside (or pieces of it). While they do this, they miss the greater point of having it before them in a spiritual sense, acting in harmony and remembering it.

It basically becomes a piece of jewelry and loses all meaning.

@eponymoushipster: Judgmental of Hasidim much? Who are you to say whether a mezuzah or other repesentation of the Shema has meaning to an individual or not?

@La_chica_gomela because i’ve actually read what it said. I have no fault with any people; i find fault with putting traditions made up by people over what God actually said.

@patg7590 that’s quite an extraordinarily ugly and ill-informed remark. Are you unable to love your neighbor as you do yourself? Not very Christian, are you, then. WWJD? He would not be so free to denigrate other’s beliefs, I’m quite sure of that.

@pdworkin, what remark are you referring to? I don’t see patg7590 denigrating anyone’s belief.

Go read the post again. It refers to the ancient tradition of davening ley tefillin as a “misapplication” of Scripture, and being devoid of all meaning, and it compares devotion to the wearing of jewelry.

Are you talking about the post by eponymoushipster ?

Yes, sorry, I misidentified the poster. Thanks for straightening that out. I’m glad you found my error.

I don’t think I’m the one who deserves your apology.

@patg7590 I’m sorry I misidentified you as the author of a post which I found to be offensive. It was actually written by @eponymoushipster.

That’s better.

@eponymoushipster: You think they haven’t read what it says? They read what it says every day!

I just think it’s presumptuous and rude of you to say that tefillin or mezuzahs are a “misapplication of scripture” or “a piece of jewelery”. How do you presume to know what’s in other people’s hearts or minds? It’s judgmental, and there’s no need for that.

@Jeruba :]

@all- it’s getting kinda rowdy in here…

@La_chica_gomela how do you presume to know what’s in mine?

@eponymoushipster You told us what was in your mind, and some (especially I) found it rather unpleasant.

@pdworkin great. and i told you what i find unpleasant. but i stated my opinion on a factual basis, whereas others made it an emotional, personal attack.

I saw your opinions, I thought they were bigoted, I don’t know what you think is meant by “factual”. Perhaps you might like to provide some neutral, unbiased, scholarly sources and citations for your contention that when Jews daven ley tefillin they do so without meaning or devotion.

I’ll be glad to wait as long as it takes.

@patg7590, you raised a topic related to religion. If you look back over other such past topics, you’ll find a lot more rowdiness than this. I normally don’t even look at them any more: too much heat, too little light. But the very idea of such a tattoo caught my interest. I’d love to ask you to please tell us what you decide, but maybe it’s better if you don’t, at least publicly. (PM me. I won’t tell.)

@pdworkin explain to me how a custom introduced by men supercedes what God says.

for what it’s worth, there are many so-called Christians who do the same thing: put traditions and man-made customs above what’s actually said in the Bible.

Furthermore, seeking an explanation as to why someone acts or believes a certain way is in no way bigoted. Running to call someone prejudiced or an antisemite simply because they disagree with certain things is the cheap shot way out. If everyone who disagrees with Jewish religious customs is an antisemite, then there’re billions of them everywhere. you obviously are very touchy about it, given how you’ve reacted in this thread. perhaps you’ve had problems in the past. i have relatives of jewish descent, and i have connections to those who suffered in the holocaust. for the sake of perspective.

Most Biblical scholars agree that the Bible was written over many centuries by many different people. This has been observed stylistically, and also in the analysis of ancient scrolls.

Many people continue to believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, and you seem to be among those. This is a matter of faith and belief. It is certainly not a matter of fact. I won’t ask you to offer proof that the Bible was produced by Supreme Being and not by men, because you would be unable to provide such proof.

I respect your faith and belief that it is so, but I do not share them.

@Jeruba haha ok, when I decide, you will be the first to know.

As a side note, so far all the Christians I’ve asked told me to go for it. Not exactly what I was expecting.

@eponymoushipster Your comments leave a bad taste in my mouth. You read what the scriptures said? Jewish scholars have been studying those lines of scripture since before Christianity existed. Their interpretations of the scripture decided that the best way to keep something in mind was to keep physical reminders around yourself at all times. Tefillin and Mezuzoht are sacred objects and treated with respect, not at all like jewelry. You say it’s for show, and yet you don’t see Jews walking around flaunting their Tefillin all day long and showing off the Mezuzah on their house.

And don’t say your reply wasn’t bigoted. You wrote that ”[Jews] miss the greater point of having it before them in a spiritual sense, acting in harmony and remembering it,” implying that Jews don’t act in harmony and don’t follow the scripture. If that isn’t a condemnation of a people, I don’t know what is.

@drdoombot well, if they leave a bad taste in your mouth, ignore them.

@eponymoushipster Guess what! You are participating in a public forum! People will have a reaction to the things you say!

If you haven’t yet do it, and say his name loud and proud yet with all do respect for this is a very sacred name! Do not use these names as many other use OMG or jesus in such a blasphamous way!!!! And how you say this name is “YaHuWaH” YaH-oo-WaH and the son’s name is “YaHushua” YaH-oo-sh-WaH ! May YaHuWaH bless you. Shalom Shalom!

One could reason that you could have YHWH tattooed on your forehead: They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads (Revelation 22:4). Of course, I would believe this to be false reasoning, since I have been taught that the word ‘forehead’ here is in reference to one’s seat of emotion or to what one has on their mind.

well I think it would be a beautiful thing. tattoos can be (notice I said CAN be lol) wonderful and beautiful artwork and they are an expression of who you truly are and what you believe. If you choose to put the name of who is most important in your life on your body then I see that as a good thing, it would be like a constant reminder to you… everyday you would wake up and think “oh yeah that’s right, YHWH is right here with me”... and yes of course we know that he is already, but it’s just another personal way of cementing that thought in. So go for it is my verdict!