What was the point at which you lost/gained religion?

The more I began thinking and looking into it the more I began to question if any of this really did happen and since there are no real facts proving that there is a god, hell, heaven, etc,,,,I began to not believe in it

When everything did begin to all make sense to me, and I knew that I would never stop believing.

Never was religious, never will be.

When I realized through many years of study that religion is nothing more than superstition redefined to control the masses; fear of the unknown begat superstition, and then superstition begat religion, and the world has been going to Hell ever since. =)

When I was about 11–12, saying my normal nighttime prayer, and realized I didn’t actually believe anything I was saying. It was just words I said because I was “supposed” to. That I didn’t believe in any such supernatural phenomenon as a “god”.

I stopped being religious once I found out how many religions there were out there, and how there can’t be one “right” one. I’ll find my own way.

@erichw1504 never say never, you don’t know where life may take you. I’ve seen the nonreligious become religious and vice versa, mostly due to external events beyond their control.

I was brought up with God, and He has always been a part of my life.

I don’t think it was a distinct point for me. Over the course of my relatively short life I slowly realized that I’m atheist. I have absolutely nothing against religion, or religious people, I just found that I have no reason to follow a religion, because:

1. The explanations the Abrahamic religions provide for the creation of the world and the way it works were unsatisfactory.
2. The morality that is dictated is at times faulty.
3. The use of scare tactics to force me into being a “good” person is unacceptable

When I read the bible myself, instead of listening to others talk about it, I realized I wasn’t on board with Christianity, though the book is a nice read

When my life fell apart and I had no place to look but up, he was there and pulled me out of the slimey pit I had created for myself.

When I realized that those around me with religion were just as phony, if not more, than those without.

I went to the Pentecostal church of my guardian as was demanded of me every Sunday (and some Tuesdays and Fridays) until I was 16. Then in college, I converted to Catholicism because having no religion at all got me screamed at every week. Plus, I liked the incense and the pageantry. But a few years after that, I had to face the facts that I had never believed in any of it ever, and that I was an adult and no longer had to justify any feelings I had or decisions I made to anyone. I lapsed.

I’m not religious! I love God, and that’s enough for me! I started asking questions and wondering about things in high school.

When I was twelve years old I realized a lot of what people believed was false (see snopes.com). I decided to rethink everything I could think to rethink. God didn’t make the cut, and still doesn’t.

sitting in class, going to church three times a week and listening to a religion that really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for 9 straight years is enough to kill almost anyone’s faith..

After 14 years of religious schooling (not my choice) and church every Sunday, I decided I’d had more than enough religion for a lifetime. There were too many gaps in logic, where you just “had to have faith” that it really did make sense somehow.

I was raised in the Assembly of God church where they spoke in tongues and were generally crazy. I was alright with this. Then my stepmother enrolled me in Catholic school and THAT’S when I knew that if these people believe the same basic things that AoG believed, then I realized something was amiss. They made me say repetitive prayers to which there was no point. They taught me that masturbation was a sin and that you will go to hell for it—to which I tried it, and didn’t get struck down, and enjoyed it.

I realized that there were too many gaps, too much unexplained, too much faith. It’s not my cup of tea, and until there’s solid proof, I’ll be an atheist and be accountable for my own life and happiness.

I was raised Catholic, so I guess I was technically religious, but it was really just all I knew. I guess I started to have my doubts the day I made my Confirmation…how ironic. (For those unaware, Confirmation is a Catholic sacrament which occurs at about 12 or 13 years of age. It is at that age that the church believes a person is old enough to make a decision for him/herself about whether he/she fully supports the Catholic religion.) I was told that I would be filled with the Holy Spirit. Being very scientifically minded even as a child, none of this really made sense to me. I couldn’t figure out how all of the things I was being taught could actually be true. But I obliged, as it was kind of a family tradition.

When the moment of my Confirmation occurred, and I felt no Holy Spirit within me (as I was told I would), it kind of confirmed for me there was no god. I have been a staunch atheist ever since.

I believed when I was 12, stopped believing when I was 13. I just decided it wasn’t for me. Nothing happened to make me feel that way.

One of the fundamental questions of philosophy is “What is real?”

As I have gotten older, I am better able to separate what is real from what is imaginary. Most of religion is imaginary. Worse, much of it is a fairy tale. That is why one has to “believe” and “take it on faith.”

I don’t think there was ever a specific moment when I moved toward agnosticism, but I it seems there is just a TON of stuff we will never be able to know.

There is nothing wrong with people believing whatever works for them. Just watch out for those that want to push their beliefs onto you. When you meet them, smile, say “excuse me just a moment,” turn and run away.

As Dave Barry said, “If God does have a representative here on earth, it won’t be a preacher on TV with a bad hair do.”

@PerryDolia – amen to that.

There is nothing wrong with people believing whatever works for them. Just watch out for those that want to push their beliefs onto you. When you meet them, smile, say “excuse me just a moment,” turn and run away.

@PerryDolia,
Running away is no fun, but telling them about Evelyn is fun. When I tell religious fundies about the 300 foot tall black woman with six breasts that I worship, it is they who do the running away. =)

@evelyns_pet_zebra I wish I could give you 10 lurve for that one, 5 for scaring fundies and 5 for awesome choice of God. I like to follow The Flying Spaghetti Monster myself.

@gggritso may you be touched by his noodly appendage…

I was about 11. A girl in my class was making a big deal about how she prayed for the weather to be nice and it was. People in the world were dying and starving, there was a war going on, and she actually thought God was listening to her. I realized that everybody thought their own God was the only right one. The only thing that made sense to me was that they were all wrong.

I was never really religious, but slow, general observation of the world as I grew up converted me to a full out atheist.

When I realized that God is bigger then you can imagine.

Oh, and he said for all of you to stop stereotyping him.

Very commonly, I stopped going to church in mt mid-teens. When my daughter was born with serious problems, the first thing I wanted was to have her baptised, which the nurse did that night and the priest did again the next day. Soon we started going to Mass, we had a formal christening and a few years later even talked about a religious wedding (not a party, just a private family ceremony). Eventually we had a family crisis and I went to the priest for help and advice and he was utterly useless. So I stopped going to church again and found my own ethics and spirituality have sufficed for nearly 40 years.

First of all I just have to say that I’m very sorry for some of you that have been mislead. I would also have to say that the catholics have some very twisted ideas. One being that Mary is more holy than Jesus. Another is baptizing a baby, because that is unbilicale, and does absolutely nothing. Batism is something that every person much CHOOSE to do, and babies cannot do that. You can however, have your baby dedicated, which is promising to raise that child in a godly way. God is there weather you believe it or not, and he loves you weather you want it or not. And a lot of people blame God for their problems, which is very ridiculous. God promised that he would give us our free will and never force our will. He gave us our will so that we will CHOOSE to love him and serve him. If anyone is telling you too that is wrong. God does answer prayer, but it’s not always what you want. God has his will and plan, and you won’t always agree with it. Sometimes bad things happen because you step out of his will. And another thing, God just wants you to want him… “draw near to God and he will draw near to you” is the best scripture I can think of at the moment. Another says ”...those who earnestly seek him will be rewarded…”. I can whitness to this because I am a firm believer in christ AND God that has an close relationship with him. He has guided my family through all our days, protected us from satans attacks on our marriage, and has answered prayers right before my EYES! So I pray that all you will accept him, and have understaning in the truth.

@Steverpeeps That’s not an answer to the question, unfortunately, even with all the grammatical errors.

I started to rethink my ideas about God and why I believed in him. I came to the conclusion that I only did so because my mother was so religious and she forced all her religious ideas on me.

At first I turned agnostic, I didn’t really care if there was a God or not. The idea of a God and heaven sounded really tempting though and it was always nice to have it in the back of your head.

Then I started to rethink my ideas again. Now my motto is that we only live once and therefore we shouldn’t let religious ideas block our path. Don’t waste your life in believing when you can do whatever you want to do!

I still believe that many parts of religion are good and the thought system is ideal for humans (some of us are so evil). I however just live by the golden rule, treat other people as you would want to be treated yourself. It has done wonders for me and if you remember this rule you can turn every situation into a good one :)

I’m gonna add a question to widen this discussion.

@Steverpeeps please please don’t pray for me right after saying how sorry you feel for me – that’s too much christly pity right there, no thanks
@girlofscience how is a 12 year old really supposed to grasp this decision, I mean really?

To sam – I wasn’t answering the question, I was replying to all the comments. And I’m really not sure or concerned with grammactical errors. I really don’t care about that.

To Haffi112 – That “tempting feeling” is the drawing of the holy spirit after you! Like I said, wheather you choose to acknowledge his existance or not he’s there and he loves you and will be hoping you will change your mind one day.

To Simone – I was just referring to those that were mislead through people that are supposed to be intrusted in spreading God truth and love. And I’m really sorry that you think that’s christly pity. If you know God, you really wouldn’t think that way. It’s not christly pity – it’s called God’s love! You might say “oh I don’t want to hear that junk” but me having a love that God wants and give us to have and give to others is not for anyone to refuse. Just like some people choose to refuse God and people respect that, I will pray and love you. i do not have to even know you to pray for you. I can feel God love, commpassion, and desire for you, and I just wish you all could too. It’s a love and a feeling like no human, animal, alchol, drug, or anything else out there that could give you.

@Steverpeeps I have felt human love and I don’t need any other. ever.

I was raised Christian (not Catholic). My mom was restrictive and I liked breaking the rules a little and in highschool when I read Siddharth and got a real picture of orginial Buddism (or at least so I though) it seems like a way more relaxed system and I wanted it to be the real deal though I wasn’t fully convinced. I started smoking pot and picked up plenty of bad habits which drew me away from God.

Freshman year in college I was high on adderal and in a crazed hunt for a logical answer to the meaning of life. I decided that “logically” nihilism was the only thing that made sense. I was distraught having no purpose or meaning so I looked up “meaning of life w/ belief in Nihilism and it said “you have to make it up”.

Then I came across the ontological proof. This encouraged me and I eventually chose to pick up my faith again. I prayed, and God began to show himself to me. Ever since I have been happier than I ever was before.

Simone, I have my husband who loves me and it’s awesome! Human love feels so great and seems like it’s the best thing that’s out there. I know God’s love and care, and I have my husband tender sweet love, and trust me God can reach you and give you a deeper, different feeling….because he can reach areas of you that you didn’t know you have, and that human can’t because they don’t know the inside of you, your heart, your mind, all of it.

I also need to let some people about Satan. Yes, everyone is aware of him, not all believe. He is just as real as God. Satan can do a lot more than people know. He’s not just the evil dude. Him and his demons do many terrible things throughout ALL nations. Deception is a very huge thing that he’s into. Deception and lies. He will convince you of anything that disproves God to you. So, I must caution you, being anyone not protected by God, that any thing that isn’t God, but you think it is, is just a lie. The devil’s telling you a lie – it’s as simple as that. I know, I’ve heard them, straight from him.

@Steverpeeps why when you say that god will give me a ‘deeper different feeling’, I get all kinds of perverted thoughts – oh yeah because it all seems ridiculous, I don’t feel as if my life isn’t complete…and it’s so interesting that you think you know my life better than I do, including all my interactions with Satan, apparently…and you heard lies ‘straight from him’...is that a metaphor for something? I sure hope so because if you literally heard that, well, you know, you better ask for help

Simone, I’m really trying to explain all this in a way that you or anyone won’t think i’m nuts, but I know that won’t happen. I’m also sorry you think it’s rediculous, because it’s the most wonderful thing ever, not to mention he’s the only love you can have for all eternity. God is God – to be touched by God in your life is just NOT going to make sense but to thost who’ve had it. I never said I know more about you, I said God does. And another thing you’re not going to want to accept is the satan thing. No, I don’t hear voices; I know that’s what you mean. Satan will put thoughts into your head that are not your own. So, it’s not hearing voices, it’s knowing the thoughts that are trying to ruin you. Like when people have thoughts of suicide. Suicide is NOT in our human nature. is the devil just whispering normal thing that are wrong, like “you know if you just end it right now, all your pain and problems will be gone”. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in that kind of plave before, but I have. I used to be trapped in depression too. but God relieved me of that – it’s gone! Now you probably do have a great life! i’m not sayong you don’t. I’m saying that God gives you the BEST life and joyful enternity. How about my favorite saying “I would rather live my life as if there is a God, than live my life as if there isn’t and die to find out there is”. I ask all of you that don’t believe, very seriously, really think about it, if you’re done thinking in under a minute your not taking it serious, what if you die and find out there’s a God? (I know there is, but you don’t think so). I’m not one of those people that are trying to say i’m better than you, I’m so not! I don’t know you, and you might even be a nicer person or what ever than me. Really! This is what God’s love is – just offering some truth, not being critical or condeming.

@Steverpeeps I’ve never heard voices in my head – guess Satan doesn’t want to talk to me, after all

@Steverpeeps Unfortunately, this website is for answering questions, not for heated debate (or “spreading love”) to those who choose to answer them and participate in what the site is for.

Like I said, not voices. I’ve never heard voices. Just thoughts. No different than saying in your head “oh I need to pick up some milk”. It’s just a thought like your own. I don’t know why but God gave me this verse for someone: “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” Hebrews 11–6 Just think about it is all I’m asking.

@Steverpeeps Have you ever thought that maybe the voice in your head that is exactly like you talking to yourself is, in fact, yourself?

I’m going to say this one more time – there is no voices. They are thoughts that satan influenced.

It has always been so easy for me to believe in God and is the only way that things make sense in my opinion. So much in fact that I am constantly surprised at how others miss it. But, the Bible said it would be like this, so I guess I shouldn’t be so surprised.

@Steverpeeps Praise be to Satan then. He’s a thought-inducer, and clearly a pretty smart guy if you ask me. Being able to influence thoughts and all.

BBSDTfamily I couln’t agree more! It truely is what is supposed to be happening in the last days.

Sam – I’m very sad you feel that way. If you’re going to mock it, then there’s really not a point for your input. You don’t know about the spiritual relm, and the angels and demons, and all that, then you are just making youself sound silly. That’s like making fun of someone cause they belive there’s a Russia, when we all know there is. Doesn’t make sense.

@Steverpeeps I can show you Russia on a map. I can take you there, I can introduce you to Vladmir Putin, I can show you the culture and the borders. You can’t physically show me that, nor have any evidence of it outside one book and a feeling you get in your heart. It’s not the same thing, so don’t say it is.

Oh it is. But if you can’t understand that I’ll understand. I can show you on judgement day because that’s when you’ll find out. I just pray that I won’t have to prove you wrong. But that’s not my job. That’s up to God. And if you read the bible God used to speak in an audible voice so there was no denying him.

“protected us from satans attacks on our marriage”

not like it was either of your faults your marriage had problems or anything…

;)

You see if you wish to inquire on that you would be lost. God has a wonderful hold on our marriage, it’s in his will, and he does great things with it, not as much that is to com though. Satan will do anything he can to interfere with God. So, he has used things that happen to marriages to where we’ve almost called it off. But, God found a way to save it. You have no idea what i’m talking about so commenting back would just be uneccessary. if you only knew the war between angels and demons, it would make sense to you like most spirit – filled christians.

@Steverpeeps you know what? if there will be judgment day, I can’t wait for it either – I will not be judge as you think I will and you may be judged a lot more than you think you will

“And if you read the bible God used to speak in an audible voice so there was no denying him”

what’s changed?

As a young adult I had many doubts. Somehow the God of my childhood seemed more and more unreal. At the time I thought that perhaps the most powerful force in the universe is the concept of self-replicating organisms (biology was one of my favorite subjects in high school). But then – almost by accident – I got into cosmology and astrophysics and I mentally went back to the time when it all began. I tried to understand how everything evolved long before the first RNA molecules came into existence. I was hooked. For years I read every book I could get my hands on. And the more I learned about the universe the more my doubts were dissipating and I found a new form of faith. But it was about a different God from the one of my childhood. Probably a more abstract form of a higher power. But it is enlightening and very uplifting nonetheless.

@Steverpeeps Catholic refers to the religion, but according to the dictionary the definition of the word catholic (small c) is

–adjective
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.

2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.

3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

I don’t know what coloring book you get information from but you couldn’t be more wrong. I may no longer practice Catholicism but I am a history teacher. Prepare to be schooled.

Twisted comes not from religion but from the people who use religion to foster war, ignorance and abuse.

Nobody thinks Mary is holier than Jesus. Holiness is not a competition.

Infant baptism originated in the 1st century CE as there were large conversions, whole families and their servants were baptized. By the Middle Ages it became a common practice to baptise newborns at 40 days when the mother and child came out of seclusion within the family.

Adult baptism returned during the 16th century probably with the Anabaptists who were the direct antecedents of the Amish and Mennonites. Of course virtually all Protestant religions have their roots in Catholicism.

It is not a teaching of the Church that God is to “blame” for bad things that happen, rather for must truly religious people it is “Thy will be done” Only Sunday morning Christians follow the old superstitions of trying to negotiate with a supreme being in order to get more health and wealth than their neighbors. They also share pagan beliefs in eviil spirits rather than confront the evil in themselves.

@Steverpeeps check your PM, where you will find an answer to your recent comment.

and the rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves for feeding the troll. =)

@evelyns_pet_zebra – Who is the troll?

@mattbrowne the religious person on here that seems to think he knows what is best for those of us who find the concept of god ludicrous.

@evelyns_pet_zebra do you not know what his best by implying religion is ludicrous?

My parents studied various religions and pretty much settled on Buddhism but nothing ever much appealed to me enough to become “religious”.

Way back in the Stone Age when I went to elementary school, we were required to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. Somewhere around the age of 12, I found myself fumbling over the phrase “under God.” I am not sure if that was the first time that I realized I was a non-believer, but it was the first time that I decided to act on it.

I’m just saying that you think you know what’s best by saying religion is pointless, she says she knows best by having religion. she’s not really a troll for it.

I am actually in the proces of converting. Once an atheist, I now feel it is best to fight fire with fire. I feel more and more like a Pastafarian .

Atheists have no moral backing and have no right to speak. That is why I think being part of a religious group is important. Don’t fight it, corrupt it.

@whitenoise may you be touched by His Noodly Appendage…

best way to pray

Flying Spagetti Monster – 1 Jesus -0

when I reached the age of reason.

Ok
Simone – I am not doing anything wrong here. I have not judged anyone. The bible says “to the measure to judge others, so will you be judged”. I am very humble and only wish to give an opportunity to someone to find God that WANTS him. I’m just passing on truth and love.
Aboynamedboobs – the the biggest thing that changed was when Jesus died he sent the Holy Spirit to communicate with us. Also God will not be around evil and the world today is filled with it. I am very joyful in you interest. Also for defending my being called a “troll”.
Gaililerogirl – You might have historical knowledge, but that’s doesn’t change anything. Batizing babies is not batism. Period. Secondly, there are things that catholic’s don’t believe and do believe that are not right. A specific example being, one catholic church that a friend of mine had attended was terrible. They think you can do whatever you wish all week as long as your in church sunday to ask for forgiveness. That is not true. For “God judges the heart”. So, if your intentions are not to be forgiven, but go and sin again, then you won’t be forgiven. And it is wrong to pray to saints. I’m sorry. God and Jesus is all God intended prayer to be to.

So, please going back and forth on here is ridiculous. If you wish to know something send me a private message.

@Steverpeeps it is indeed ridiculous

I do have a bit of information for you. the world back then, you know, when “god spoke” was just as evil as it is today, nothing’s really changed, just the technology involved.

there were such cult classics as rape murder theft, greed, hate, racism, bigotry, homosexuality(know you guys aren’t fans of that stuff), saying the world was nicer and less wicked back then is absolutely absurd.

Wait, people still believe in the Abrahamic God? I guess I have been out of touch once leaving Wis.dm and rarely attending Fluther.

@JamesL :) hey!

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
Heyyyy!!!

@evelyns_pet_zebra – There are Christian missionaries on Fluther? I haven’t met any of them yet.

well, you guys enjoy engaging @Steverpeeps I for one find such blind faith quite sad and also ridiculous, really. Why she continues to preach about God and Satan on here and not answer the question, I have no idea, but after dealing with her kind on AOL for eight years in the chat rooms, I have better things to do with my time.

Life is about choices, your results may vary.

” if you only knew the war between angels and demons, it would make sense to you like most spirit – filled christians.”

I do know what you are talking about. First I will say this, if it works for you (the way you are thinking) great.

Your heart is in the right place, the tools you are using are not. Without going on, and on, and on. What I have to say does not contridict the bible either.

There are no Angels and there are no demons. Except for the ones you create in your mind. God gave you all the tools, it is time to stop chasing “holy ghosts” and look upon yourself for who you are and how to get from point A to point B.
You can only provide love to others, not knowing their heart you can’t pass or even assert judgment.
Because you know? You know what works best for you. In the end you will be accountable for yourself.
Set an example, never attempt to set up people to live your example.

Aboynamedboobs – Yes you are correct. It was just as bad, I never said it wasn’t. But the world is getting worse and worse, and more perverse. The biggest thing is that like I said, back in the day there was no holy spirit and God was the only way to communicate. When Jesus died he sent the holy spirit to comminucate. So, that is the greatest, most important reason.

evelyns – I’m sorry you find my reality ridiculous. I will tell you once more – I am not here to answer the question; I am here to put in what God gave me to tell the people on here.

To chaz – I’m am so very sorry, but you are very very wrong. Angels and demons are in the bible, and they have been seen. They also have done a lot of things in the world. Once case being, someone I know had her children being thrown against the wall with no one there. They were all crying and screaming and so was the parents. Demons posess people as well. When my mom was about 18 and had just read the bible and learned how to cast out demons, her bed started levitating. She used her new found knowledge and cast the demons out in Jesus name and the bed dropped. I also have felt angels protection many times in my life. I have felt some wrap their arms around me when praying to God after something sad had happened. Also I remember a fews years ago, I was taking a really hot hot hot bath. I was laying there and the heat was too intense for me, and all this sudden, I passed out and went under the water. Before I knew it an angel had grabbed me and pulled me up, or I would have drown. God can reveal other’s heart to you through the holy spirit and you can walk past them and just know through God what has happened to them and wants you to pray for them for whatever he wants. What you say ONLY contradicts the bible. Satan and angels and demons going out protecting the people and ruining them are exectly what they do. So, you are incorrect.

@Steverpeeps no yeah, you’re right, all others are wrong, god told you this personally, so did satan…c’mon…

He did through the holy spirit – he gave me that scripture too. Satan did not. I do not put you down or mock you and tell you you are going to hell or anything so, you should be fair and give me the same respect. I did nothing to offend you, so offending me just doesn’t make sense.

@Steverpeeps it is offensive when you tell others they’re wrong no matter what they say

Yeah, actually i can understand that. So I see where you are coming from. I just wish everyone would take my advice

@Steverpeeps I’ve often thought advice is more for the benefit of the person giving it

where are you from? just curious.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 me? or @Steverpeeps?

steve.

was too lazy to do @Steverpeeps…watching a movie.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 which one?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir The Watchmen O.o… it’s actually pretty decent, was worried when I saw previews

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 cool

wow…

@Steverpeeps.
Ever been to Jeruzalem? If you didn’t, then how did you catch the syndrom?

“Before I knew it an angel had grabbed me and pulled me up, or I would have drown. ”

Ya know. If someone I feel is standing over my bed in the middle of the night. “It was a dream.”

If I am filled with the wholly spirit, “it is Jesus.”

If we are “not right” with God. We are delusional.

If we are right with God, it is a supernatural experience. Angles have appeared before me.

I have been saved for over 30 years. Born again! I have “seen” plenty of miracles.
I work for one of the largest Christian organizations in the world. (not catholic)
An inner circle person.

You will believe and see what you want to. When enough intensity is in place. What you have said, I have seen also. Or thought I did, or was given the impression it was. Just depends who you hang out with.
Then one day it made sense.

The light switch does go on because of some “magical” power. That “magical” power makes sense. God does not want us to be confused. “He” certainly does not want us to fight.

But, you can use that God given mind to make sense of it all, or you can make it “supernatural” denying you of any accountability. One thing we are is accountable.

God will not strike you down for your mistakes. Driving through a red light will. Not Gods fault you crashed. But God did put the laws of nature and physics into play. SO in a way he did. But not in some form of direct intervention.
Does the creator of the heavens and the universe need assistance? Helpers to fly in and save you? Does not sound like a big task for someone that made the sun.
Hardest thing for a person of the faith to let go of is damnation, fear, and guilt.

The bible talks about spiritual things because it was intellectually incompressible for the time. Ghost and spirits made sense, they still do for some today.

You simplify God when you inject those thing into who he is. Especially when you are capable of knowing better. But you wont, because you might get hit by lightning, and you might. If you stand out in a thunder storm.

For me, speaking for myself. When you bring God down to your level, you are missing the point of who God is. Stop putting the face of man on who God is. But, like I said, if how you see him works for you. You will not be accountable. Better to have never known the lord then to have known the lord and walked away. You can’t be accountable for what you don’t know. But, ignorance is the killer.

I spend my day watching people that are content with the :“mystery” of who God is.
And, I see the constant failure in it. Except for the ones that profit off your ignorance.
Hey, they believe too.
But in the end, many will walk away from the word. Ya know why? Because you will come to a point, no ones fault but yours, that you spent your life being ignorant. It will consume you and you wont even make an effort to re-set yourself to see who God really is. That pride thing.

How I feel, what I think does not take away from the Bible or add to it. I have just taken off my rose colored glasses.

:-)

Yes it does chaz. You are not the christ- like person GOd called us to be by saying these things. I’m so sorry you don’t know God. I’m sorry you can’t accept the things he put into motion. Like I said on the other page – the day is coming. This truth will be revealed to you. What about when Jesus cast out the demons from the pigs? Hello? What part of demons or evil spirits didn’t you get? You are saying the bible is wrong, and God said the bible is infallable. So, you accept the whole and you are a christian or not. You can’t be a christian without being christ-like. I’m so sorry.

And no I haven’t been to jeruzalem. What syndrom?

I’m form Michigan why? And in case your didn’t know I’m a girl lol

@Steverpeeps – Do you think Eve was made from a rib of Adam? Or is this a metaphor?

“You are not the christ- like person God called us to be by saying these things.”
THAT is nothing more then a cult like attitude.

” I’m sorry you can’t accept the things he put into motion.”
Not only do I accept it, I live it every day. I just do not need to convince people that rabbits magically appear out of a hat.
That “Magic” just being what we do not know yet.

“the day is coming. This truth will be revealed to you.”
The truth has been reviled to me. I live a less stressed and more Godly life because of that.
Beware of false prophets. Do you think they will be standing on the side of the road with a sign in their hand?
No, they will be the people you feel have a riotous connection with God.

“What about when Jesus cast out the demons from the pigs? Hello? What part of demons or evil spirits didn’t you get?”
Were you there? I get the metaphorical message, and I also take into consideration that I understand how the people of that time would have seen it that way.

” You are saying the bible is wrong, and God said the bible is infallible.”
Nope, I believe the bible is right on. But because I now understand what causes thunder and lightning, it still does not change what its purpose is.

“You can’t be a christian without being christ-like.”
I am christ like. I am part of God. Because, you want to pull a coin out from behind my ear, I am suppose to accept that there is magic involved because I did not catch your slight of hand? That might work for a 5 year old.

There is an answer to everything that is going on in the universe, for now it is beyond our comprehension. That comprehension tends to push people back to mystical beings, and spirits in control.
When the day comes when you and myself are before God. We will become enlightened to how it all came together. We will look into the eyes of God and go, “now I get it..” It all makes sense.
There will be no more, mystery, or magic or Ghosts. Even who God “really” is will probably surprise you. Since we want to see God as a man living in a house.

Since you do not know me, that is ok. But because of that you can’t determine where I am with God. There are people that sit down and eat roasted bats or fermented pork. I would find those things nasty, “wrong”. Do I have a right to determine that they do not know how to appreciate or understand food? No.
But knowing weather I am Christ like?
You know not the cross I bare. My walk with Christ is different then yours, but all paths lead to the same place. The walk might be hard, but know God is always there.

We are God, The path sometimes gets a bit rocky, put some shoes on. That is God. You want to sit still and wait for shoes to appear. Eventually something or someone will come along to either give you shoes or a ride.
Yes, God created those people and/or those shoes. Not out of thin air and you have to put them on.

@ChazMaz, I agreed with everything you said until you said “We are God.”
that’s the fine line I can’t cross. I’m called to be “Christ-like” not to be God. Forgetting that we are the created and he is the creator was what got Eve into trouble.

Yes, that is a hard pill to swallow.
To think we are sort of equal. But we are no, but then again we are, equally importent.

We are the body of christ. Just like your body. Lungs, arms, toes, hair, ect.
All play as important part to make us who we are.

Do you think we go to heaven and live in a town, have our own house, hang with friends, family member and pets, that were long gone? Again, trying to compare the greatness of god to our own way of living?

We go back to being where we came from. That is re-joining with God. there by becoming part of god and in essence and in fact becoming god.

The Christian faith talks about that we are to be brides of Christ. Does that mean we become Jesus’ woman? I have a hard time seeing myself in a wedding dress walking down the isle. Again, a projection of our small perception of who God is. It is two joining as one.

There is me, there is you, there is the guy at the 7–11. We naturally see a separation of one another. Again, small thinking in a universe that is so “complex.”

Being part of God and there by being “God like” sends thoughts of us having some superiority. A sense of greatness that takes us above all others.
You have to get over that egotistical and insecure way us people on earth think.

The wholly Spirit, the soul that we contain tethers us to the divine spark. That is what guides us. That is what gets us through our day.
When two or more are gathered together in my name I am in your presents.
True because now you have a body, and that body is God. You are a part of it.

Your finger is as much a part of you as is you brain.

I do not say we are god lessening who God is. That is the insecurity of others.
Without God I would not exist and we always existed as part of God.

The father, the son and the wholly spirit. Separated in order for us to make sense but one of the same being.

God came down to earth as Jesus, Having to take on the form of man in order for us to comprehend “him”. As much as we see who Jesus was and is. Jesus is God.

That Dichotomy is hard for people to comprehend.

Understand I am in the examples, simplifying things a great deal so I do not have to explain every word. I feel most people can get the gist.

@Judi nah, Eve’s trouble ‘cause she’s got a woo-woo…anyway, sorry, bad joke, back on topic

Judi, I agree with your last statement.

Chaz however you are like many others saying those things are metaphors. I actually just learned from a man of God who spends hours upon hours reading the word of God that when there’s a metaphor in the bible it will explain itself in the bible. Not a metaphor. It was a story about something Jesus did. Jesus gave parables that were like metaphors. He did not use his encounter as a metaphor; the bible explained what he DID. Sorry, but you can say whatever you like about the bible, but Jesus day if you take one thing away or add one thing then he will take away from you or add to you at judgement day. You do not call yourself a christian and then say something that is very wrong. I can give you more scriptures if angels and demons if you like, as long as you won’t just say they’re metphors. And what excuse exactly has your mind twisted about the scriptures in the book of Job when Satan was before God? In case you hadn’t read it, it talk about Satan having to give an account ro God on where he has been – before you even say it, yes GOd already knew where Satan had been, but Satan, just like every one of us, will have to give an account for everything. Anyway, Satan told God he had been wondering around the earth and coming to and fro it. Then Satan asked God to let him have his servent Job, being sure that Job would deny God. This was an actual conversation, not a metaphor, of anything else fake you could muster to call it. It’s the bible, if your a christian, then you just accept it. That’s all there is to it.

*but said – not day

@Steverpeeps ; you’re not doing you cause any favors here. You are coming across as quite manic.

All together now – “Let’s agree to disagree” . . .

I’ve never been religious, just faithful.

Albeit, at the moment, due to rough circumstances, I am what a friend of mine referred to as “spiritually constipated.”

Judi – ok, sure. But those who are close with God also knowwhat I’m talking about. Jesus said we would be prosecuted.

He did not say to go out and purposely alienate non Christians so they could persecute you. We are supposed to be a light to the world, not a squawking crow.

@Steverpeeps – Yes, unfortunately there are too many who are close to a group of people who think only they know what the absolute “truth” is. The one and only truth. Sorry, I don’t see this as truth. I see this as mental blindness and a form of fanaticism.

I’m not sure why you see me as a squawking crow. I’m not going out looking for trouble, this question came to me and God gave me some words to put in, that’s all there is too it.

Do you think those who are close to God are like you? You see, I believe in God too. What would you say if I told you that I’m closer to the real God than you are, because your God is not really the true God? What about the people who do not believe in Jesus being the son of God? Are they all wrong? What about the Hindus, the Buddhists and so forth. What about the atheists? They have their reasons too and chose their way. My advice is, let’s talk about your way and my way. Instead of “the” way. Instead of “the” truth. That’s my point.

You decided to join Fluther which I applaud. However, you will notice that critical thinking does matter. You will meet diverse people. Some will challenge your assumptions. The discussions are not about trouble. They are about discovering new insights.

@Steverpeeps do you ever have your own words?

I’m not sure what you want me to say. I’ve said all there is to say. And I’m afraid yes, I will say they are all wrong. The one thing I have to say about all these other “truths” that you like to call them, is that their Gods did not create them and the universe. So, once more, I cannot not convice you. You will find out for yourself in do time.

@Steverpeeps can’t wait.

No one on Fluther wants to make anyone say something in particular. What Flutherites say is their choice. What you say is your choice. Debate can become for fruitful if everyone tries to stay open minded and tries to understand the other’s viewpoint. We should appreciate diversity, culture and the various belief systems and religions. We only have a future on this crowded planet if people stop claiming to know the only one truth and that only their God is the only one true God. Or that the only one truth is that God doesn’t exist. Yes, you cannot convince me that God is supposed to be a whimsical magician violating His own sacred natural laws. Scientific illiteracy is a danger to our crowded planet. Praying alone can’t feed 7 or 9 billion people. God wants us to use our brains. And God can give people strength. Prayer gives people strength. Religions can give people ethical guidelines.

“But those who are close with God also know what I’m talking about.”

I know what you are talking about, believe me I am very close to God.

Being in the inner circle and being so involved for so many years I understand where you are coming from.

But, and speaking for myself, do not be afraid to free your mind. It does not change the meaning of the bible, it makes it even greater.

God has no fear of you seeking “him” out. As long as you are true to the goal. The fear and threat comes from your friends that you might cause friction with.
Are your friends, your church, and your family more important then you walking proper with God?

Go beyond the words.

God is the most important thing. I love him and I love spending time with him and I love the things he does for me, my family, my church, and even those that are not saved. I am a sinner and I repent to God for the wrong that I have done. I believe Jesus is who he said he was and is, and in everything that he did. I believe he died on the cross for my sins, and rose again on the 3rd day. He has worked more miracles than I can ever count in my life and in those that I know, and some that I don’t. I will obey him and the bible and live by it. I will speak any words he gives me to anyone he choses. Because I walk by faith and not by sight. You do as you will, I will do as God wills.

And as you will, is Gods will.

Not really. God gave you a will to choose whatever you want to do with it. God has his will. Part of his will is that we whorship him and serve him. That’s what we were created for.

No matter what goes on it is gods will.
Your actions, God already knows. Because it is your actions and your will. Propelled into motion by God.

God does already know, but it’s not his will, his decisions. He doesn’t will for people to kill people, or gay marriage, or abortion. I know I’ll get some protestors on that. You are wrong, because your idea would mean there is no sin. And there is. He wants people to love him and put him up higher than anything else. Also, denying angels and demons and all the things you said just is saying God is wrong and that the bible is a lie.

@Steverpeeps: Newsflash: there is no god.

Well I’m sorry, but that’s not true, cause I know him. You don’t have to think so. But I just think it’s crazy that people think there’s no God when there millions, the most out of all religions, that know him, love him, and have felt him. And know exactly what I’m talking about.

@Steverpeeps : Question: Why are all the billions of people on this Earth who are not exactly like you “not saved”? Muslim fundamentalists will tell you that you are not saved. Orthodox Jews will tell you that you are not saved. Christian fundamentalists tell me I am not saved, even though I also am a Christian, although a modern one. And all the others are supposedly also not saved according to your strict belief system. We live in the 21st century, my friend, and I think it’s time to accept that there are different ways to find God or other forms of spirituality or the peace of mind in general. How many wars do we need to determine who knows about the “correct” absolute truth?

@girlofscience: Newsflash: scientists conclude there is a theistic and an atheistic interpretation of the universe. There is a possibility that God exists. So ‘there is no god’ is a very unscientific statement.

@mattbrowne: There are both theistic and atheistic interpretations of the universe. The theistic interpretation is almost certainly wrong. While almost nothing in the universe is ever absolutely certain, the probability of there being a god is so ridiculously small that it is reasonable to conclude there is no god. Asshole.

@girlofscience – I’d say the probabilities are about 50/50, but this is a gut feeling. While science has the potential to explain any natural phenomenon, it can’t explain and will never be able to explain the meta-phenomenon of existence itself which led to natural phenomena for us to observe and explain. The orderly biophilic universe is quite remarkable. I believe there was an intelligent creator. But it’s a belief. Your belief is that God doesn’t exist. I can live with that. But scientifically, mathematically you won’t be able to show to that the probability of there being a god is ridiculously small.

“You are wrong, because your idea would mean there is no sin. ”

Yes, another hard pill to swallow, there is no sin. Except for the sin caused by ignorance.

Is that so hard to understand. Does the hard edged concept of sin that you live with needed, so to make pointing your finger at others that much easier?

If you want to live in fear and despair go right ahead. We put so much trauma into what is right and wrong. But it ALL plays part in the end result. It is ALL needed.
It is when YOU do things that you know are wrong but do them anyway. But even that falls under previous experience to cause an action.

I know where you are coming from, been there. You cant love your fellow man if you wont understand them. You wont understand them because you have been so isolated
in your understanding of what life really is and how it works.

If you would take the time, and know that God will not punish you for wanting to understand how “he” makes the world spin. Your devotion to God would become stronger.
And, you would have truly a solid argument to Gods existence. Even if you are the only one in the room saying what you are saying, you would truly be confident in what the truth is.
Confidence without frustration.

@mattbrowne: Science can and does explain existence. Even for the things science cannot currently explain, it is ignorant to say that science will never be able to explain them. All aspects of our universe are explainable by science, either currently, or they have the potential to be explained by science in the future.

The origins of all religions differ, but no religion was ever born out of scientific evidence. No religion is able to withstand the same kind of scrutiny that any scientific concept must endure in order to be accepted by the scientific community. There is simply no legitimate evidence to suggest that a god exists. Considering that so many people would love for a god to exist, and that so many religions and religious people exist, and that many religions have been around for so many years, if there was any valid proof of a god, it would be documented by now. Any proofs of god that have been suggested cannot withstand scientific scrutiny.

In the end, science will validate God.

Matt – All I have to say to you is that Jesus said that he is the the only way, truth and light. He is the ONLY way to heaven. There is no other way to heaven than through Christ. Sorry. You have a problem with that, go ask you “God”. You live by the bible and that’s it, that is if you’re a christian.

Chaz, that’s where you are wrong. But that’s ok. If you are not a christian, than I cannot hold you to it.

@Judi what end?

@girlofscience – How does science explain existence?

Well, there’s no legitimate evidence to suggest that a god doesn’t exist either. Scientifically we should all be agnostic (I am), but spiritually we can be theists or atheists. We can believe in God or not. Religions are about beliefs and ethical living. Religions are not about what happened between the 10^-43 and 10^-6 second or how the Grand Canyon was formed. This is the realm of science. Ironically it turned out that unlike Einstein the bible was correct in stating the world had a beginning. A Catholic priest suggested that Einstein was wrong about in his belief of the eternal universe. Later the big bang model became widely accepted. But then, there’s also Eve coming out of Adam’s rib. The bible is wrong. All Adams are actually “ribs” of Eves.

@Steverpeeps – I chose Jesus Christ as my way to heaven, and obviously so did you. But heaven is a “big place” if our belief turns out to be true. We’ll know when we die. I think there’s room for everyone, including those who choose different ways. I live by the bible relying on trajectory hermeneutics as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajectory_Hermeneutics#Trajectory_hermeneutics

To me it’s not only important what Jesus said, but also Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Hans Kueng and many many others. Christianity and other religions continue to evolve. The world doesn’t stand still. We need to define ethical guidelines about genetic engineering and other new technologies. We need to apply critical thinking facing the challenges of the future. We need to fight scientific illiteracy. I wish Christian fundamentalists would eventually understand this. Praying alone won’t save us from the next tsunami or hurricane. Tsunamis and other natural disasters are not caused because people are sinful. The Old Testament is wrong in this regard.

” If you are not a christian, than I cannot hold you to it.” Passing judgment where you are in no position to judge.

I am a Christian. Devote but not puppet like. I work for one of the largest christian organizations in the world.

I find Christ not by repeating what the bible tells us, as much as we are to arm ourselves with the word, but from having that personal relationship with Christ. Knowing who God really is. You use most of your mid to make sence of things but you leave a part to blind ignorance. That is not what God wants of you.

I do not need to throw words up in the air to prove Gods existence.

It is is the simpleminded “sheepish” behavior of today’s christians that cause them to fall short. Living in faith safely.

Matt – All I have to say is you believe ALL the bible or NONE of it. And no your wrong. We don’t need to do any of those things. If you say the bible is wrong, then you are saying God is wrong because the bible is GOD“s word!

This is the message he has given us to announce to you: God is light and there is no darkness in him at all. So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness. We are not living in the truth. But if we are l…...iving in the light of God’s presence, just as Christ is, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from every sin.1 John 1:

My son, do not despise the LORD’s discipline and do not resent his rebuke, because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.—Proverbs 3:11–12

God gave me these scriptures. No idea why, but here it is for whoever it is.

Chaz – I was not passing judgement. The bible tells us to come to one another with Christ’s love, to those that are christians, and correct them according to the scriptures. So, if you are a christian than I am called be Christ to show you where you are wrong. Knowing God isn’t blind ignorance; It’s what we were created to do. Knowing the God of the universe is the most amazing, fulfilling thing there is.

@Steve , as you mature in your faith I pray all your prickley edges will smooth out.
I was once judgmental like you. As I studied and grew I realized that the better I knew God the more I realized how much I didn’t know. It has been very humbling.

I am not jusgemental. I just told you all that. I am defending God.

Eve was taken from Adam’s rib. That is why Women have one more rib than men.

@Steverpeeps that is, in fact, false

“For now we see as through a mirror dimly, but then, we shall see face to face.”
we don’t see the whole picture yet. To pretend like you have a handle on the vastness of God is like a mosquito thinking it is the cause of the earths rotation. God is bigger than we can comprehend so spouting off like you have some special knowledge only gives non believers a bad impression. Let them see him by the fruit of your spirit. This approach isn’t working.

Though that is true, that doesn’t mean that I don’t know him, and have a deep relationship with him. I’m not sure what approach you think I’m taking. I’ve said nothing wrong. My only arguement is to those that claim to be christians, and don’t live by the bible. A christian is believing that Jesus was the son of God, died for all sin, rose 3 days later, and believe every word the bible says – with no question against it cause it’s God’s word – what it says is what it says. Also, that you live you life according to the bible. They should see by the fruits of the spirit; that will not correct the things they are saying about the bible.

@Steverpeeps you can’t believe it all because there are so many contradictions in the bible that one would lose it

No, there isn’t. The bible can be hard to understand, that’s all. The most anyone needs to pay attention to for everyday living the the New Testement. That’s very easy to understand.

Your fruit is kind of sour. Maybe you should let it ripen before you start feeding it to people.

@Steverpeeps – May I ask how old you are and what your educational background is?

Do you realize that you owe it to religious people – who worked as scientists during the era of Enlightenment – that you are able to drive a car, pick up the phone and use your computer right this very moment when you read this Fluther comment? It was people who realized that Eve is in fact not a rib of Adam. I think it’s very unfair (to say the least) that Christian fundamentalists enjoy all the conveniences of modern age, while at the same time telling the rest of the world that they are wrong and we don’t need critical thinking.

“those that claim to be christians, and don’t live by the bible.”
It is that “cultish”, because the bible (literally) tells me so, behavior that is the problem.

I cant say it enough. I have been there, I see this behavior every day, I believe the bible. In all it says.
But, you have to think/dig deeper, it will re-inforce what is meant in the bible.

That devotion to your pastor and religious leaders, because they are who they are. You cant/wont question them, you cant/wont ask for clarification. They are no different then you are.
You do love that “magical” edge. That super being that watches over you when no one else will. That “super being” is there. But it is you and the people around you that will make a difference in you life. Put into motion by God.
It is nice to put the blame on God when things are bad or don’t work out. “God has another plan.” That is a cop out, and the only thing is does is make other people wealthy. Pray harder, donate more.

Just like the example of the rib. It is not hard to understand what the people of that time were trying to convey in a scriptural message. Does not take away from the word.
Allow yourself to see the message for what it is in its entire meaning.

It is hard to break away from years of superstitious programming. I have been there. When I stopped being afraid of God. I was able to see insight to what is truly meant.

I am in no way trying to convince you of anything. Stay strong in your faith. God does not hold you accountable of what you do not know. He does for what you will not know.

And, even that is a decision of process.

Judi – I think it’s very insane that you’d say that. Once more – I have not done anything wrong. God has given sciptures for me to post – that’s not wrong, or sour. I am obidient to him. Also, I am not judgemental. I used to be also. God has delt with me on that. The rest is just that I must defend God and his word and truth.

Matt – I never said I’m not appreciative for the critial thinkers. They have made a lot of things that make living fun and enjoyable. My spiritual gifting is discernment. I don’t know your standing on all that, but that is mine. And that is where I can distinguish between good and evil. I know when things are form God, or satan – though the holy spirit. So, that is where I get my info. Also, I spent many, many hours with God. And another thing, It absolutely does not matter my educational background. Because there will even be pastors that will be left behind. You really won’t like that one, but it’s true. There are some very corrupt pastors these days the they will not go to heaven. But, saying which person will or will not go is not for me to say cause God judges the heart.

Chaz – I’m just saying, you are the only “christian” I’ve ever heard of that thinks that way. My church, and every one I’ve ever been too (and that’s a lot), and every Chritian I’ve ever met think and believe the same things I do, and understand the bible the same way I do. You are the only one that says all these things. I’ve never met or heard of a christian that doesn’t believe there is angles and demons, or all the other things you say. My spiritual gifting is discernment. I don’t know your standing on all that, but that is mine. And that is where I can distinguish between good and evil. I know when things are form God, or satan – though the holy spirit. So, that is where I get my info. Also,

My spiritual gifts are discernment and prophesy. That’s why I don’t go out of my way to evangelize, other than to just be available.
The problem is that you seem to think that you are the only one the holy spirit inspires.
Maybe he is trying to get you to think outside your little box.
I also think that the Bible is true and inspired, but I also take into account that throughout history the way people have proceeded information has changed and I am open to the idea that maybe a heavenly day is a spin around the universe and not a spin around the sun. Unless it’s a salvation issue it’s really not worth arguing.
I don’t agree with everything Matt and Seventh have said, but I do know that we are different parts of the body of Christ.
Maybe the Holy Spirit inspired us to encourage you to grow.
Don’t be like Jonah who got all ticked off when the heathens in Nineveh were saved. God is bigger than we know.

@Judi – Of course the bible is – in a way – inspired by God, although I don’t think He dictated every word. If we believe in God, He is the creator of the universe so everything we see around us is the result of God’s work. He chose to do His work by creating stable and predictable natural laws. Our universe is orderly. We can see the bible as true in a general sense, but the details have to change as religions evolve and our understanding of the world improves. Why was Eve seen as a rib of Adam? Well, some smart people wondered about the origin of life including humans. But they didn’t have the tools we have today. No labs. No microscopes. They made the correct assumption that two genders evolved at a later stage and earlier there was only one. Which is true. Sex was invented 1.5 billion years ago. Of course, without the tools people could not grasp the enormous time spans involved. Why came Adam first? There might be two reasons for that: patriarchic societies at the time of the writing and visible male sperm while the ovaries are hidden.

Now if someone today in 2009 tells other people (or worse, their own children) that Eve was in fact made from a rib of Adam and that the Earth was created 6000 years ago I really think they are suffering from delusion. In this respect they are really using a primitive form of religion as opium numbing their minds turning off critical thinking. The effects seem very similar to those of drug users taking LSD allowing the human brain to run amok. Religious fanaticism has a lot in common with drug addiction. Trying to wean a young earth creationist from his “drug” is a huge challenge and will fail in most cases.

@Steverpeeps – If you appreciate critical thinking you should tell me that Eve was not made from a rib of Adam. Do women have one more rib than men? If you’re married have a look at your wife and count the ribs. Or take an X-ray made by a doctor. Most likely the number will be the same. About 1 in 200 people has an additional cervical rib and there is a female predominance which means you will also find some men having one additional rib.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rib_cage#Number_of_ribs

Judi – I do not think I am the only one that the holy spirit inspires. If you’ve read what I said earlier, then you would of seen that I said that I know a lot of people that the holy spirit dwells with. And yes, we are different parts of the boys of Christ; I agree with that also. The holy spirit has me growing in a lot of areas. I am confused why you are relating me with Jonah getting mad at Nineveh. I’m here in case someone want to get saved. Not mad that they do. I still don’t get why you keep accusing me of things, when all I’m doing is defending the bible. That’s something that’s on my heart very heavily.

Matt- I do appreciate it. But I don’t not appreciate critical thinking in a way that changes the bible. God said that he made Eve from Adam’s rib. You don’t disect that. You accept that. And I am married, but I’m a girl, not a guy. You can debate the rib thing or not believe it that is just fine. There is an amazing anointed evangilist named Perry Stone that Spends hours upon hours studying the bible and he is very good at knowing what metaphor and what’s not and a lot more.

.

.

” I’m just saying, you are the only “christian” I’ve ever heard of that thinks that way.”

Hmmm, sounds familiar? They said that about Jesus. (Do not trip out I am not saying i am Jesus.)

Yes, time Christians started to think outside the box. It will be their downfall if they do not.
Actually, it is why that in the end time many will walk away.

“every Christian I’ve ever met thinks and believe the same things I do, and understand the bible the same way I do.”
That is the point right there, believe the way you do and understand the way you do?
Yes, seems to be that in order to be a Christian you need to follow the majority. Well that is wrong. Is is about God . Not what every “christian” thinks.

It is never about MY way of believing, or anyone else’s. It makes sense, using the brain God has given. Because they say so or the bible tells me so? Open your eyes.
It is ok, and as a CHRISTIAN thinking the way I do I do it using the tools God has put before me. Do not be afraid, plenty disagree with how I think. Really, the only reason that they will not is straight out refusal to think and look at any other reason.
Especially if there is a possibility that they/you have been driven by elusion and delusion all along.

Ok, fine. You can say what you want. I will no longer aruge with you.

@Steverpeeps – Sorry, I thought your name was Steve. If you’re a woman you can count your own ribs and the ribs of your husband, father or brother.

God said that he made Eve from Adam’s rib. You don’t dissect that. You accept that. Really?

First of all, God didn’t say that. If we believe in his almightiness, we must assume if He talks to us (in a symbolic way) His wisdom and His wise messages would be in accordance to His natural laws.

Why do you accept something that is in violation of God’s natural laws? I think because you switched off critical thinking. Please switch it on again. It will enlighten you. Apply critical thinking when reading the bible. Jesus himself repudiated Old Testament violence for example.

From Matthew 5, verses 38 – 44

“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

You see, ‘eye for an eye’ and ‘hate your enemy’ is like ‘Eve made from Adam’s rib’. It’s wrong.

You know, God revealed to me yesterday that I shouldn’t be talking with you anymore. I’m sorry

my pretty specialized answer… for a while there I half-held the maltheist view that the God of the Revelations of St. John might exist and would come and judge us all by his evil standards. I gradually stopped thinking this because (at least in my case) I could only (half-)believe such an unrealistic possibility for so long. (I had an elaborate series of rationalizations along the lines of a truly evil God would make it so that intelligent people would find it harder to accept his existence than dumb folk. because I thought that only a truly evil God could exist, if one existed at all.)

@Steverpeeps god revealed this to you yesterday? is he like on your speed dial or something?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir , She and I had a private conversation. I’m not God (btw) but I think her decision was a result of that conversation.

“You know, God revealed to me yesterday that I shouldn’t be talking with you anymore. I’m sorry”

Yikes. So disappointing. Do not think God wants us to run away from what we do not know. You do not have to have an answer. We can’t always articulate what it is we are trying to say or feel. That in no way means we do not know.

I do find it “frustrating” that “Christians” can be so content with passing the responsibility of understanding to someone up in the sky. Faith is one thing blind faith is another.

Thanks Judi ;)

And Simone, it’s kinda like that. God can speak to you through the holy spirit. I was praying about it and I got a bit “stop conversating with them”, being matt and Chaz.

@Steverpeeps you talked to god about fluther? wow

@Simone_De_Beauvoir ; It’s kind of nice to have someone to talk to that is there no matter what and is interested in even the most trivial details of your life. Fully understanding that the rest of the world thinks were off our rocker, @Steverpeeps and I know how much we gain from it. I think that’s why she gets so enthusiastiac about sharing it.

Yes, Exactly Judi!

“I was praying about it and I got a bit “stop conversating with them”, being matt and Chaz.”

Funny, God told me to love you.

“You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. All men will hate you because of me. But not a hair of your head will perish. By standing firm you will gain life.” (Luke 21:16–19)

“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” (Romans 8:28)

Never said I didn’t love you all

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom; and with all thy getting get understanding. – Proverbs 4:7

I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of ingenious inventions. – Proverbs 8:12

Getting wisdom means no one should ignore newly discovered knowledge. New understanding. And the search for new knowledge will continue.

Freshman or sophmore year of highschool.

I saw too many religious arguments get defeated to think any religion is probably true. Though, I haven’t outright rejected the idea of a god; scientific explanations and science based beliefs make more sense to me.

I grew up with no pressure to be religious. I didnt really believe in God, but I had no reason not to either. Basically, I didnt give it much thought. I tried reading the Bible a couple times and related to it in ablsolutely no way. It just seemed completely irrelevent and very dry. People would sometimes ask me if I had accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior and I thought it was just so much rhetoric and unneccesary. In fact I was probably on the fast track to becoming an atheist. Then, at the age of eighteen, I had a near death experience. I believe that I was actually dead for some undetermined amount of time, during which I had a talk with God. He basically told me that it wasnt my time to go and that He was going to send me back into the world. On my way back I met Satan incarnate and experienced many different unexplainable things. I saw angels and demons in many different forms. Its like my spiritual sensor was turned on and then quickly set to maximum. Supposedly its some great gift, but mostly it seemed like a torturous curse. Its been seven years since then and I still havent fully recovered from the experience. Whether I like it or not, I have to believe in the existence of God because Ive experienced it first hand. I know that my Testimony is very powerful, but I rarely get the chance to share it.
About the conversation above, I have to say that if you are going to try to talk to unbelievers about God, you should be very careful about what you say and how you say it because so much of what you are trying to explain is just going to sound like nonsense. You have to be ready to face criticism. Also, try not to dismiss anybodys ideas without first considering it in an unbiased way. Im currently working on trying to prove the existence of God in an empirical mannor, but the task is extremely difficult and daunting. Im not ready to say that it cant be done. I just think that I havent found the right way to go about it. But I have a lot of time on my hands and the process is interesting and fun and Im learning everyday. So even if I dont find what Im looking for, I can at least be assured that its not all in vain.

As a child people tried to force me through intimidation to be a part of an evangelical religion. It never made sense to me, I never bought the lies and despite their attempted social intimidation I was never tempted to give in to it. I have been for the past eight years (but forever in my heart) A sufi. I always had these beliefs but was never allowed to study religion. Once I met kids at school who were Muslim I knew that it was in the right direction but not quite right. Once I turned 18 and moved away from my family I came across Sufism and I finally had a name for everything that I had always believed in my heart. I think that too many people are part of a faith because they will be disowned by their famililies or spouces or communities if they leave but you have to do what is best for your soul and not give in to others. I never lost or gained a faith I was simply able for once in my life to be who I always knew I was. You have to look into your own heart and do what you know is right. You can’t let people scare you into a faith. Whatever you choose to believe it has to be in your hear, not someone elses.

I was raised Catholic. In high school and college I ran away screaming. After my accident (very serious, I was supposed to die or be a permanent vegetable) I returned to much of my life. There are some serious deficiencies such as emotional control and an actual drop in intelligence, but I was not supposed to live at all. I decided as a result that there had to be a divine being who orchestrated my survival, and I was obviously not finished living.