Does anyone else find veterinary practices unduly money grubbing?

It depends on the Vet. In the place I take my cats, there are two vets. One hardly charges me for anything while the other reminds me of when I take my car in for a Jiffy Lube, i.e., “I recommend you get the teeth cleaned and that costs…”“To be REALLY sure we should do an ultra sound and that costs…”, yada, yada, yada.

I have to agree with you there. I’ve found a lot of the local vets here to be money grabbers. We were taking our pets to this one who, who we (later) believe, was getting us to put our pets through some unnecessary testing and getting us to buy products that were overpriced (that we easily could have purchased online for a lot less). He tried to push us to buy products that our pets truly didn’t need. Later, we found out he had a huge gambling problem (would bet on the horses). My ex would say after coming out of his office, that we’d just finished receiving a good “ass raping”.

I don’t trust vets , i do everything in my power to stay away from them . Obviously if an operation is needed i have to go to a vet , but i saved the life of my parrot and many animals before who the vet said would die .

The last thing this country needs is more legislation!!! Why do we need the government to do EVERYTHING for us. If you want to give your dog or cat heartworm medication without knowing if your dog has heartworms or not go ahead. It only takes one mosquito and one missed dose of medication for your pet to be infected. You can order heartworm medication from 1800petsmed.com. If it kills your pet, you know it was infected. If it doesn’t, then the pet didn’t have any.

Try another vet. When I was evacuated due to fire, and my cat needed her heart meds, I called one vet who insisted that she come in for an exam. I then called my friend’s vet and this vet didn’t even require my cat’s records, because the vet was also closed due to fire. I just had to take her empty prescription bottle in and the vet gave me a 10 day supply of her meds, for free.

Call around. Not all places are in it for the money.

I think because a lot of vets know we would do anything to keep our pets healthy and happy. Not all vets are like this, but as with any profession there always are a few bad apples.
Maybe you can find another vet you might like better.

Vets & dentists. Either one, be prepared to pay the piper. I always said I was in the wrong profession.

This is a business as much as it is a place for pet health. There is overhead, salaries that need to be paid, etc. and the revenue for that comes from their customers. Personally, I don’t think that adding legislation is going to help. The vet isn’t doing anything to harm the animal (as far as I know) by suggesting more services, unnecesssary though they may be. And, as the pet owner, you have every right to refuse the recommended service. Legislation will just add to the expense.

My vet wants us to have “senior bloodwork” done on our cats every six months. We don’t do it. I understand that older cats are more likely to become ill and that cats “hide” illness many times until treatment is more complicated. That being said, we still won’t do it. These cats are indoors all the time and less prone to catching diseases because of that. They go for their annual check ups & shots and I have my long-haired cat groomed their once or twice a year. (They do a good job, cost less than Petsmart and are more convenient.)

As for the vet who wants your pets to come in before giving them heartworm meds, I would guess it’s a combination of wanting the money and covering his/her ass. He/she may be worried about giving the medication without seeing your pet and then being sued for prescribing medicine without examining the patient.. (side note: I don’t have a dog and don’t know whether heartworm medication is something that could be given responsibly without the vet seeing your dog.) In this case, I feel like the vet might be trying to get some extra cash, especially since you’ve taken the time to send your dog’s records to that office. If there are other vets around, you may want to call to see if they will give you the med for your dog without the office visit, if you send them the records.

I work closely with a lot of vets through my animal rescue group. We have a network of vets who donate various supplies to us for the care of our animals as well as provide testing and veterinary procedures free or at cost to us.

On top of providing all of these free services to local groups like ours, they are also constantly dealing with awful pet parents. Almost everyday, someone brings in an animal who is sick or injured and requires immediate veterinary attention. After assessing the animal and providing an estimate to the pet-parents, the pet-parents frequently throw a fit, say they don’t have that kind of money, and insist that the vet is under a moral obligation to help their animal. Sometimes, the vets oblige.

Vets are really just trying to make a living. They put years of work and study into becoming a veterinarian, and given the nature of animal health care and people’s lack of responsibility for their animals, they are often forced into situations under which they provide their services for free. It is unfortunate that they have to find these other loopholes (like requiring your dogs to come in for a visit) in order to make any money, but the above-mentioned reasons are why they do that.

In all honesty, I think everyone who has a pet should simply get health insurance for their animal. It is only $10–15 per month, and it reimburses all check-ups, medication, and procedures entirely. I have it for all three of my girls, and it is very worth it.

I have yet to meet a local vet who actually cares about the animal instead of the money. A few months ago, my family brought our cat to a local vet, because he was weak and tired. So, we left that poor cat with those assholes for three days while the so-called “doctors” are telling bullshit they don’t even know what they’re talking about to my parents, and had the nerve to charge us for shit we almost couldn’t afford. Three days later, the cat fucking stops breathing and we got some of our refund back and they want to charge us for a cremation, We told them to fuck off, so they dumped his body in some dumpster. Then three fucking weeks later they found out he had thyroid cancer. Fuck them and fuck anyone who defends them.

They want to at least meet your pet before they perscribe anything. No reputable medical doctor would give you a perscription having never met you and a vet wouldn’t either.

I must be lucky. My vet is a wonderful person who cares more about the animal than getting paid.
Once we had a cat that had gotten hit by a car. By the time we found him he was close to death. At the time, husband and I were strugglng fnancially and didn’t have the extra money the care would have taken. Our vet, realizing the hardship gave us the ‘hundred dollar deal’. He said he would do all he could for the cat and, if he lived or died, it would cost $100 and we could pay when we could afford to.
He kept the cat in the vet hospital for over a week. Set both his broken hind legs, performed surgery on his tail and a few other minor things.
The cat survived and we managed to pay him in time.

After reading the comments above, I am even more thankful for my vet whom I already loved. I have never felt overcharged, or pushed to do unnecessary procedures (in fact when my dog Lucy had cancer he donated palliative treatment just so she wouldn’t be in too much pain, and suggested that we let her die quietly at home without any intervention) and once, in the middle of the night, when I was in a human hospital and my girlfriend was caring for me, her Seeing Eye dog suddenly got bloat, easily a fatal syndrome. The vet got out of bed to meet us at the clinic and saved the dog’s life. I can’t remember what he charged, but I do remember thinking, “wow, this is cheap.”

(He also suggests that I buy my Frontline at Amazon for less than half his prices; I just ordered a six-month supply for $55.)

Keep in mind that the average veterinarian graduates with $100,000 in student loans and that the average starting salary is $64,000/year (I can find the references if you wish).

Your vet has the same amount of training as a medical doctor, uses the same exact equipment as a medical doctor (CT, MRI, ultrasound, digital radiology, blood pressures, blood gases, blood chemistry, complete blood counts, etc) and has to pay for that equipment. Yet veterinarians are paid 1/10th of what a medical “human” doctor gets paid for the same exact procedures.

Take a look at your next “wellness visit” or emergency room bill.

As is the case with your own health, you should educate yourself about the health care of your pet. Ask questions about tests and treatments that are recommended. Make an informed decision based on the best information available.

My wife worked at a veterinary clinic for the first about 6 years we knew each other, and we saw it from both sides. Yes, it is very expensive, but consider this….veterinary care is just a small subset of medical care. Medical care is expensive. You have to realize that these doctors first of all are going to bill for their time, just like any other professional….these people actually went to medical school, they are doctors and doctors do not come cheap. As for drugs, well drugs are part of the pharmaceutical industry, and basically, just like with human drugs, you have a certain number of years when you can make ALL your money off a drug before you lose the exclusive patent rights and anyone can make a generic. And just like any other business, it’s a matter of supply and demand, if there is a strong enough demand for something, where people will pay it, they are going to charge what they can get for it.

As for tests and procedures, any machines they may use or lab equipment to diagnose your animal, these things cost a LOT of money, and in fact, a vet clinic is really no different than a doctor’s office (I’m speaking about the way it was 9 years ago, and of course things have changed since then). Basically, I know this doesn’t go on to any degree these days because of how regulations on it have been tightened up, but if you have ever worked in a medical setting or know anyone who has, you have probably heard about how pharmaceutical reps will come in and buy lunch for everyone and give samples and basically these are some really put together, attractive people who shower the doctors and staff with gifts and what not so that the clinic will buy THEIR products….now there are strict limits on this, but not that many years ago, this kind of influence peddling was commonplace. It’s no different in the animal medical world…there’s a lot of money to be made, and they will spend money to make money. Same thing with medical equipment, they have reps whose job it is to convince vet clinic why they need the model 3000 instead of the model 2000 that has been working all along.

And as someone pointed out, the doctors have to pay a larger number of staff people. There are runners/kennel cleaners who can be hired for about the price of a fast food worker, and receptionists at the front desk who command about the same rate, but you have to figure even a small clinic needs a couple of each of these every hour its open. They have to hire an office manager, who is probably going to cost twice what the receptionist costs. They’ll have to hire a bookkeeper who is likely to make more than the office manager. And they have to hire a staff of veterinary technicians…at least one per doctor and usually at least one or two more than that, and these people will probably be compensated about double what the runner/kennel cleaners are paid. Some may hire a groomer, and they are usually going to cost about what the bookkeeper costs, somewhere in that area.

So, let’s do some math. Your doctor is going to want to make $200 an hour, which is CHEAP by medical standards, let’s say you have 4 doctors, 2 receps at $7.50/hr, 2 runners/cleaners @ $7.50/hr, 1 office manager @ $15/hr, 1 bookkeeper @ $20/hr, 6 vet techs @ $15/hr, and you’re open 12 hours. The office manager and bookkeeper only work 8 of those hours, the rest are staffed the full 12 hours. And you have to hire someone, usually one of the techs to be the overnight person in case of a problem with one of the animals, so there’s another 12 hours @ $15/hr. And these rates aren’t even that unreasonably high in today’s market. So, the cost of keeping the medical clinic open for 4 doctors, who each bill $200/hr is, not counting their salaries, because all this comes out of that $200/hr and any profit on the medicines, toys, food, misc they might sell. That’s about $1,900/day, or basically, for the 12 hours they’re open, about $160 an hour just to pay staff, not to mention employment taxes and benefits, so let’s say $200—$250/hr for every hour their open, just for people costs.

Then of course they have to rent or pay a mortgage on the building, pay the utilities, and the insurance, which is ALWAYS costly. Doctors also have to keep up their licensing and have to go to seminars and continuing education classes. There are a LOT of hidden expenses in running a vet clinic. So the mantra becomes that you bill for a “visit” and not the time, the “visit” is maybe a 20 minute appointment, so the doctor’s fee for that is $70. Your pet needs tests, drugs, supplies, these things all have to be billed at a price which brings in some profit over and above the price they had to pay for it.

Now, truth be told, vets do tend to live in very nice houses, drive very nice cars, and do very well for themselves, there’s no question about that. But again, they are doctors, and this is what we expect. They do not however live the same lavish lifestyle as people surgeons, just doesn’t happen. Most really do not go into it for the money, if they were going to do that, they’d go into human medicine. Yes, they’re making money off you, a fair amount of it, but they ARE providing an OPTIONAL service for you. Hell, when I was growing up, there were no heartworm medications, it was unheard of to get a dental done on your cat…basically you brought your kitten to the vet to be given its shots and be spayed/neutered, and then if you were lucky you never brought that cat to the vet again, and somewhere between 12 and 20 years later it would die of natural causes.

But people have become obsessive about their pets the same way they are about their children, and they’re willing to put out all sorts of money to keep fluffy as happy and healthy as possible. Yes, those labs they can run on your pet when they get older can be very revealing, but 99 times out of 100 they just convince you to buy treatments that really don’t extend the animal’s life in any way….maybe marginally improves the quality thereof, that’s it. But veterinary medicine is a for profit business, and just like ALL for profit businesses, it is going the way of corporate America.

In our area, the VCA, a California based veterinary medical provider, has pretty much bought out most of the independent vet clinics. You will see more and more of that, as the people who own the long standing businesses want to retire, and the people who want to further commoditize the veterinary medical industry and run it as efficiently and profitably as possible, see the value of these old clinics which come with a dedicated customer base (most people just don’t change vet clinics, even if their doctor leaves…it’s a continuity of care issue). They are going to offer these doctors who started their own practices or bought them from someone else many years ago, perhaps millions of dollars for this business that they’re currently spending 12 hours a day working at and making a good living, but not giving them a life. Yeah, they’re gonna by and large sell. And younger doctors just don’t have millions of dollars to buy a clinic, and it’s hard to start a business like this from the ground up unless you have someone with a great deal of experience and a loyal customer base who will follow that doctor to a new clinic. But why would an old seasoned doctor want to even go into business if he/she wasn’t already a business owner…there is probably a reason such a doctor never chose to have his/her own clinic, and chances are, he/she will not be interested now. But even if you do, you’re going up against well funded, multinational corporations these days.

The only way you’re going to find the experiences some have told of on here is to find an independently run shop that has not yet sold out to corporate America, where the doctor really cares about the patients and patients’ owners, where the goal is great service at an affordable price. They’re getting harder and harder to find, because the costs of doing business are quickly starting to grow to the point where most doctors are willing to go corporate and cash out. Bottom line, if you think your doctor charges too much, try to find another clinic, and the best way to do this is to talk to people you know who have animals…who do they go to, do they trust their vets and are their vets affordable. And realize that maybe you can find your meds from a discounter…even Costco now sells Frontline.

But to answer your question as bluntly as I can…if you go to a corporate owned vet clinic, yes, the owners are money grubbing scum who care more about running a business than servicing animals. If you go to an independent vet clinic, yes, it’s expensive, but your doctor is probably NOT money grubbing scum….he/she is probably just charging what is necessary to make the business work.

@jbfletcherfan As soon as I read the title, I thought the same thing! Some dentists are awful!

It really does depend on the vet. My father is close to a lot of vets in the area, he knows how they operate, we go to a vet close by….they aren’t the greatest, and the main vet is a complete asshole. But, they don’t really believe in unnecessary testing. They did do a major surgery on our dog, but we agreed to it because it was the only way to really figure out what was wrong. They are great with our cats though, which I love. They were crappy when our one cat got worms repeatedly, I felt they should have lessened the bill since it was them that kept prescribing different meds over and over…but for the sake of our cats life we just paid it.
I think some vets try to get money out of you, but that’s just business. I do wish they were more compassionate sometimes, but I’m sure they’ve been screwed in the past.

I just got back from the vet. It costs $262.00 including a three-month supply of heartworm meds for our two dogs.

@missingbite You cannot order from 1800Petmeds without a prescription. Also, the dogs had been tested.

@tedibear39 Yes, while we were there the vet suggested the senior bloodwork for my 9-year-old dog (an additional $140) even though she said her exam showed him to be healthy, and it would just be precautionary.

@girlofscience Yes, I have been involved with rescue, and I know vets do a lot of good work. We had a network of surgeons that would do our greyhound rescues at cost when we took broken leg dogs.

@syz I am glad that there are vets, and that their training is first rate. Since I think our medical care is vastly overpriced in this country, that is not likely to move me toward feeling veterinary care should be even more overpriced. I just went through the following experience: dog writhing in pain and whimpering. Visit emergency vet. Vet wants to do xrays. ($375). X rays inconclusive. Vets wants to do bloodwork, ($125.00) Bloodwork normal. Vet then wants to do abdominal ultrasound (going to be $475). Fortunately, dog poops out the 3 inch corn cob he ate so the total bill only came to $1175 instead of the anticipated more than $1600. A different discussion, but I wonder if vets should be using all of those high tech tests for animals.

All: Regarding legislation, I should have elaborated on what I propose. Simply, that recommended services have some kind of disclaimer saying they are elective and optional, and not indicated by any presentation of the animal during the exam. Also, that vets must offer owners prescriptions, which can then be filled anywhere. Just like human medicine.

@Marina – consider that pets are a luxury. You don’t see too many homeless people with pets. If you’re going to have that luxury, there are expenses involved. If you are not prepared to pay those expenses, knowing that some times they could be completely unexpected and extremely high, then you maybe have to reconsider pet ownership. Your example, you spent $1,200, the machines they used for the x-rays were hundreds of thousands of dollars, they have thousands invested in the equipment to do the bloodwork, and they have to pay for someone to help you at the counter, someone to bring your dog back, a doctor to examine the dog, do the tests and intepret the results, and lab technicians to help them perform some of the tests. It’s the culture that’s the problem, most people are of the attitude that their pets are their family and they will spend whatever it takes to keep their pets healthy. And a doctor, no matter how well meaning, who wants to provide this service to people, even if he is not personally trying to make a killing off other peoples’ misery, but trying to make a professional income fitting their education and the amount of money they had to pay to get that education, just in order to provide their service to you, they have to pay dozens of other people just to make it happen…that money you spent gets sent in a myriad of directions, each person is making profit off their efforts or their products, and it just all adds up. It seems unjust that you have to pay that kind of money for something that self resolved, but the doctor still spent his/her time, they still paid their employees, they still used that expensive equipment, they did their job and they should expect to be paid for that. Doesn’t make them greedy.

@Marina I guess it comes down to individual priorities. Some people would be happy to spend $1200 on a pet “writhing in pain and whimpering” and some would never even consider it. (And by the way, corn cobs are seriously bad news. I can’t fathom why they seem to be so irresistible to dogs, but we’ve had more life threatening foreign body surgeries involving corn cobs than just about anything else.)

@dalepetrie I did not begrudge the money. I would have spent anything to help him. I was attempting to illustrate that all of that technology did not help in this case. We were very lucky he did not have to have it removed surgically.

@syz I was happy to spend it and to have my dog back in fine fettle. (Also, see my note above on the point I was trying to make to dalepetrie).

You are so right about corn cobs. He was off leash in a field. Someone had tossed the piece of corncob in the grass after a picnic. He snarfed it and swallowed it before I could get him to drop it. Leave it command or no, he usually will not drop food. My husband calls his breed “mangetout”. Note: I did not know what he ate at the time, just that he ate something unauthorized.

The vet working with us said her first surgery involved removing 14 corncobs from a dog’s stomach.

I even had a cat once that would drag corncobs out of the garbage.

And re government regulation…I think the main purpose of it should be serving the public interest, and keeping the public safe. So things like food safety, keeping the shit out of our meat so we don’t get e. coli, that’s the kind of place where we need more regulation. Keeping our air and water from being polluted, that needs more regulation. And human medical care has become unaffordable as the insurance people pay for to make it affordable has ALSO become unaffordable and at times inaccessible…THAT serves the public interest, keeps the public healthy and safe.

But we live in a capitalist society, and unfortunately, anything that is ultimately a luxury really needs to be left to the free market to decide in order to make our society work. I’m OK with regulating, even nationalizing things that make us healthier and safer and which help us to live productive lives and keep us from falling through the holes in the system. But if we extend that to every business that exists, including pet medicine which is really an optional thing (though I would never make the decision to take my dog out back and shoot it if it was suffering too much, that is certainly a choice we don’t have with humans, and perhaps no matter how much you love animals, that’s as it should be because animals do not contribute to our economy in the way people do). I would spend whatever it took for my cats, but I’d do so knowing that people are making money off me, and that’s how it is in capitalism, and even though I’m pretty far left, I’m not about to go in for Communism as an economic philosophy just yet.

@dalepetrie Animals do not contribute to our economy the way people do? What planet do you live on? We exploit animals in all sorts of ways. Food, clothing, bomb sniffing. We don’t even pay them salaries.

@dalepetrie You don’t see too many homeless people with pets.

Actually, at least in our neck of the woods, almost every homeless person we see seems to have a dog with a rope around its neck for a leash. My son even commented on it the other day.

Now whether that homeless person gets vet treatment for their dog is debatable. I suspect the dog sees a vet about as often as the owner sees a doctor.

I, too, have been involved with animal rescue, and I know that many, many vets do an amazing amount to help out the various non-profit shelters. However, with that said, there is still quite a variance in cost and required procedures from practice to practice.

My vet has known me since 1985. He has learned to trust my instincts and my statements so he often will refill a prescription without seeing the animal in question. He runs a fairly small operation and works hard to keep it as cost efficient as possible. I know several other vets in town who also practice in this manner, and we appreciate their ability to keep costs down for us.

For example, instead of having a sonogram tech in the office full time, he uses a trained tech who travels from office to office as needed. She gets the flexibility to run her dog rescue during the day, and no one vet has to pay her salary and benefits. It does mean that sometimes your animal may have to wait a few hours before getting a sonogram, but it lowers the practice cost.

However, another local veterinary hospital here in town is infamous for what they charge. Understand that they do have every piece of equipment you can imagine, and they have full-time techs on staff to run that equipment at any time, day or night. That means both their equipment costs and their personnel costs are going to be higher. They also have multiple vets on staff, some with specialties, such as canine opthalmalogy. OTOH, it means that your pet will get the best possible care, equivalent to treatment in one of the best human hospitals.

By some strange coincidence, of course this vet is located right next door to the two fanciest neighborhoods in town.

I don’t like to deal with the fancy hospital because they have demonstrated the ability to turn your animal in pain away if you don’t pay for everything up front, and quite realistically, I really cannot afford to pay as much to have a pet as I do to have a human child. My vet never turns away an animal in pain, but will work with the owner to strike a balance between cost and quality of life.

Bear in mind, though, that just because a vet runs a small, one-person practice and does a lot for animal rescue groups, that doesn’t mean this is always the right vet for you. Vets are human beings, and you will get along with some better than others. I like, respect, and trust my vet, but don’t like a few of his colleagues. All of them have successful practices and loyal customers, but somehow the way my vet does things works best for me and for my animals.

@Marina – Yes, but WHO exploits the animals for profit? I’m not saying they’re not USED, I’m saying that lacking a frontal lobe and opposable thumbs, they are not the beings who governments are built to serve. Natural resources such as water, minerals, oil, etc. all are exploited to contribute to our economy, but they are not the drivers of the commerce, they do not self harvest, process and market. If there were no animals, man would exploit plants to a greater degree, yet you wouldn’t expect the government to step in if the profit motive caused the price of Miracle Gro to triple, would you? THAT’S my point.

As I said, animal health inasmuch as it applies to the health of animals used solely for companionship/entertainment of people, is a luxury. Now, as they are living, sentient beings, we place more importance on them than other “possessions”, but at the end of the day, that’s what pets are to us.

I will use the example of a big, flat screen HDTV as an analogy for a pet. One can say they “love” their pet, but plenty of people “love” their TVs when you get right down to it. Now most people if finances got tight enough, would give up their TV long before they’d give up their pet. But if it came down to having just enough money to feed yourself, spouse and children, or going hungry so your pet could eat, the pet WOULD in most households go.

Now as for the comment of you don’t see “too man” homeless people with pets, I didn’t say “any” because I know some homeless people have dogs. A dog can indeed help a person sniff out food. A dog can defend you against threats you encounter when living on the street. And a dog can be VERY self sufficient. In fact, you might be eating out of the same dumpster as your dog, and indeed might not have even been aware that there was edible food in that dumpster had the dog not sniffed it out for you. But I guarantee you, if it gets to the point where it’s that person’s survival or the dog’s, the dog ain’t gonna make it.

I just don’t think our government can prop up every industry because it bears some peripheral relationship to human well being. Our government needs to look out for its citizens, far more than it does in my opinion, but I would no more want the government to start spending money to make my vet bills go down than I would want it to spend money making flat screen HDTVs cheaper. Even though I’d love to have an HDTV in my bedroom, I don’t need it and I would give up the HDTV in my living room before I’d give up my cats. And yeah, I’d bitch and moan if I had an unexpected $1k+ vet bill for one of my cats and it didn’t seem like they did anything that nature wouldn’t have done itself (I have done this in fact). But I wouldn’t want the government to spend tax money to streamline the medical costs of animal health care. Not when there are 50 million people who don’t have health insurance for themselves, and nearly that many who live under the poverty line. Not when the education system is failing too many people, not when roads and bridges are falling apart and down because the government hasn’t been able to keep them up. And not when there is healthy competition remaining in the industry…again, if you don’t like what your vet charges, interview others with pets and find a nice family practice that is charging what it needs to in order to run a profitable business, but which is not sending all its money back to some investors in California who are just going to ask you to pinch the pennies a little tighter, oversell unnecessary services and continue to hike rates on things which used to cost a fraction of what they do now. I see no role for government here, pets are great, but they are a luxury, even if they are the last luxury we’d want to give up as humans. Some people don’t want pets, some do, those who do have to pay the price…same as how some people don’t want HDTVs and some do…we can’t prop up what some people might want.

As always I note the differences between here (Australia) and there (USA for me). Here you can buy heartworm meds in any grocery store. The theory is that the meds even if given to a dog who is heartworm positive, it will not harm the dog because the worms are killed slowly and will not clog up the heart in one fell swoop. Actually it is used as a pretreatment because it slowly eliminates the worms before the arsenical type med is used.

So makes you wonder about all the vets in USA who insist on heartworm check before selling meds????

Another big difference is worming, here they advocate worming quarterly without a stool check. I use Ivermec monthly, takes care of all parasites except tapes, but that is true of most worm meds.

I think it is just like your doctor, you have to shop until you find one that suits you. I hardly ever go to the doc and when I do, I don’t want all sorts of tests, I am a live until you die sort of person. I want the same for my dogs so I hunt for an old school vet. I don’t want senior bloodwork. Kennel cough vaccinations are useless, there are so many varieties of it that they can still contract a type of it. And my old vet told me and I have to agree, that most dogs get it and then are immune for 10 years (or the rest of their lives inmost cases). There is the rare dog who develops complications and dies but it is rare.

I am opposed to more legislation, just find a good vet.

http://oldcountryvet.com/

A life is not a TV, no matter how you look at it. And the government is responsible for taking care of animals: county animal services. Our taxes pay for the care, maintenance and disposal of animals. If it were a luxury to have a pet, then maybe we could get a tax break for caring for animals that otherwise the government would have to deal with.

And since the meds and tests that animals take are the same as those for people, of course the prices are jacked-up, and drug and medical companies are trying to bilk you out of your money.

FYI, laws require what is called a Doctor-Client-Patient relationship be established before any medications can be dispensed. This means that the doctor who is dispensing the medication must have actually seen and put his/her hands on the patient within the past year in order to prescribe medication. This law has Veterinarians tied down. If we disobey this law we could lose our license to practice. If you have a heartworm test from one vet, you should just use that vet to get a prescription for the medications you require to keep your pet safe from heartworm disease.

And just so you know Veterinarians make crap as far as other medical professionals are concerned. Even Dentists make more money than Vets. gets down from soapbox

In California Dentists can go to work for the prisons and make $16,000 a month to start. They don’t even have to invest in equipment, office space…...

@tinyfaery – a pet may not be a TV, but it is a pet, it is a possession, it is something you do not need to survive, and humans make human laws within human governments to protect and serve humans. Possessions are luxuries be they alive or not. They fall under the category of “wants”, not “needs”, and the government should be focused on needs, not wants. And in a day and age when a government is woefully under-protecting human needs, we can’t start taking away money to be spent on human wants. And to clarify, the drugs that humans and animals take ARE the same, but they are almost INVARIABLY cheaper for the animals, it is the humans whose health maintenance is a NECESSITY who are being taken advantage of, and until we can take care of people, we can’t really start to use tax dollars to make pet health care (which is already WAY cheaper than human health care) cheaper. It doesn’t matter how much you cherish this “life”.

My animals are an _essential- for me, however, no matter what the government thinks.

@Darwin – if it’s a choice between feeding yourself and your family and sending the animals off to somewhere that they will be safe and well taken care of, or watching your family go hungry so you can keep pets, you would keep the pets? I’m talking life or death survival…basic human needs. A pet may improve your life immeasurably, but they are not oxygen, they are not food, they are not necessary to survive…it is matters of survival in which I believe the government should intervene, everything else they should take a neutral stance on, that’s all I’m saying. After all, even if your animals mean the world to you, it’s still YOUR INDIVIDUAL CHOICE…your next door neighbor may never have any desire to have a pet of any kind….he has as much right to that as you have to your pets, why should the government make it cheaper for you to indulge in that way and give nothing to your neighbor who pays his taxes the same as you do?

The problem is that there isn’t any place I could send them off to where they would be safe and well taken care of. I know because I am being required to find homes for several of them and have had little success. So I would have to say that we might all switch to eating cat food if we had to, as it is cheaper than most human food.

Actually, in my experience there would be a better chance of finding a good home for my children than for my animals.

And I haven’t asked the government for any handouts for my animals, nor do I plan to.

Again, if I didn’t have my 5 cats that would be more tax money spent on animals. Animals are not possessions, they are lives that need to be tended to.

Who said that you can tell the character of a country by the way it treats it’s animals?

@Darwin – right, but my original point is, theoretically it comes down to you/your family or the pets. Let’s make up a hypothetical. A team of masked strangers enters your home by force. They have severed all contact between you and the outside world and they state their intentions to keep you in this house for 2 months. They have taken care of the outside world and what they wonder about you somehow, and they say alright, here’s the situation. You will all stay in this house for 2 months…you’ll have entertainment and food, but no contact with the outside world. We will provide meals for you and your spouse and we will ensure that you are the ones eating those meals, we need to have you healthy…we will also make sure there is no way to get any other food than what we provide, and know that even if you try to kill yourself, we will stop you, and if you DO succeed, we will not re-aportion the meals. As for your children and your pets, we will feed EITHER/OR. Whichever ones you choose not to feed will disappear from your lives forever, you will not know where they went, whether they are alive or dead and you will never see them again. You have no choice, you must choose who we feed/who you keep….your kids or your pets, and if you do not decide, we will decide for you. Not saying it’s realistic, I’m saying what is a necessity vs. what is not a necessity. Our priorities are either 1. keep self alive, 2. keep family alive, 3. keep pets alive, or 1. keep family alive, 2. keep self alive and 3. keep pets alive, but either way you slice it, for the vast majority, pets are #3, even if they are a DAMN close #3.

Now you can get into the political scenarios about cats on the street producing more cats, creating a problem for government services to trap and rehome of kill them, but that’s an irrelevant argument to this discussion. I’m not saying people shouldn’t have pets or shouldn’t love them or even that the government shouldn’t encourage people with the means and ability to own pets to do so. What I’m saying is, pets are not a human necessity. They are a human luxury. I fully support treating animals well, I support animal charities, I have always had and always will have animals, not the point.

The point is, if it’s my life or the cats’ lives, I’d HAVE to sacrifice the cats. I can give up my cats even if I really, really, really, really, really, really don’t want to, but I can’t give up breathing and eating. Our government plays a role in the well being of its society, it needs to make sure people have clean air to breathe, clean water to drink, shelter from the elements, sustenance to eat, and the ability to become self-sufficient through work. But our government does not and should not play a role in making anything cheaper or more accessible if it does not contribute to survival.

I’m not an animal hater and I’m not saying you should get rid of your pets, and I’m not saying that there should be no money spent on controlling stray pet population or on being humane to animals. I’m saying that no tax dollars (not no dollars at all), should be spent to make what is essentially a luxury less expensive to partake in. And it’s easy to get all bent out of shape about this when you think about your own emotional attachment to the pets you already have, but I’m looking big picture here, not at pet ownership in terms of pre-existing relationships, but as a choice you make when you first ACQUIRE a pet. Nothing forces you to do that. And therefore, I as a taxpayer should not be forced to subsidize that decision you made.

They can feed my daughter and the cats, and take my son. Please! ~

I am very aware of the choices I made when I acquired my pets. That is why I waited to acquire pets until I had a real job and a place to live. And I have not asked for any government subsidy for veterinary care or pet ownership, nor do I think it is a good idea. The government does pay for animals in our communities because some people abuse the privilege. The sense in which they pay is simply that too many stray animals negatively impact human health.

I do believe that that my animals form part of my family and that just as with my children I am required to care for them and feed them and keep them from being a burden on society. Thus, any decision I make will include animal care.

Your situation is very, very hypothetical, and it will not happen. If it should, please understand that my children are better able to care for themselves than my cat or dog, thus I might have to decide accordingly.

@Darwin – if you could live without seeing your kids ever again, without even knowing if they were alive in order to ensure the security of your pets, then I dare say you’re a rare parent. I mean OK, I’ll be more direct. A gun comes out, the assailant says I’m going to shoot your kids or your pets, you decide or I decide for you. It’s a fucked up, unrealistic question, but I’m trying to get at the fact that pets are NOT a necessity. You and I agree on the lack of government subsidies for them. Ergo, I assume you agree if you had no pets and could not afford to acquire them, you would go without acquiring them before you’d expect the government to make pet ownership cheaper for you, right?

@dalepetrie – Yes, if I had no pets and could not afford to acquire them, I would go without acquiring them before I’d expect the government to make pet ownership cheaper for me. That is, in fact, what I did. I did not acquire pets until I had a stable job and a place to live where pets could also. However, it had been on my mind literally for years as to when I could have pets.

I am involved in animal rescue so I am very aware that many people do not feel that responsibility. The primary reason for that, however, is that they consider pets as objects, not living creatures with whom one can form a bond.

For me, though, pets are a necessity. If I had to live completely without pets I might decide not to live at all. Psychologically I need them.

@Darwin – And if we had adequate health care in this country, including both physical and mental health, and you could afford to go to a competent psychiatric professional whose professional diagnosis was that an animal was necessary for your mental well being, then perhaps we could have pet prescriptions, we could have mental health dogs the way blind people have seeing eye dogs. But I’d say feeding the 50 million hungry people, and ensuring access for every American to safe roads, schools and health care would still take precedence over making sure everyone whose life would be immeasurably enhanced by pets could afford to maintain them.

The part that I wonder about is how many out of those 50 million could feed themselves if they went to work. And really what Americans don’t have safe roads if they drive sanely and education is quite good if you want to be educated.

Self accountability is being lost and the government is supposed to intervene and take care of and provide everything.

I have had some crap jobs that I hated but I took them so I could feed myself and my dogs, and a lazy exhusband.

I’ll keep my dogs at least until everyone is doing their share.

@rooeytoo – many of the 50 million who live under the poverty line have jobs. Hard jobs. Jobs which don’t pay the bills. Minimum wage is a cruel joke. Try raising a family of 4 on $7.50 an hour and then get back to me about how these people are lazy.

Re the roads…um, you may have missed it, but I didn’t since it was in my fucking backyard, but a bridge on a major interstate fell into the Mississippi River two years ago with dozens of cars on it, killing 13 people and injuring 200+, all of whom were driving sanely, which happened by the way after a governor with a fiscal philosophy seemingly similar to yours did NOTHING to invest in roads and bridges for 6 years, basically opting for spot checks instead of full inspections and repairs.

Re the education…it’s pretty good…if you live in a decent neighborhood, if you live in a poor neighborhood, our government’s solution is to test the kids and take funding AWAY if they don’t do well enough, rather than to spend money to make the schools capable of teaching the kids so they CAN do well enough.

Self accountability is self righteousness in disguise, it’s a smokescreen…you point to the few people who do abuse the system as proof that we should do LESS, not MORE for the people who genuinely NEED it. It’s about giving a hand UP, not a hand OUT to people who through NO FAULT of their own, or NO lack of personal effort, but by sheer circumstance (trust me, there aren’t any jobs out there right now for example, I went to college for 4 years and worked for 15 and I haven’t been able to find one for 6 months, not for lack of trying, and I use my government provided unemployment benefits, for which the employers for whom I’ve worked over the last 15 years have paid insurance so I can get this, to pay my bills and feed my family), can not get on their own feet by their own efforts alone. But it’s much easier for people like you to sit in judgment of people who struggle, because you ass/u/me that they have no self-accountability.

I got news for you, Reaganomics died on November 4, 2008, may it rot in hell.

@dalepetrie – There is truth in what I say. Minimum wage kept food on my table and a roof over my head, not a particularly elegant one, but a roof nonetheless.

And I completely disagree about self accountability. It is the most important aspect of being a responsible adult human being. It has nothing to do with self righteousness.

These are subjective opinions and you are just as entitled to yours as I am to mine and probably equally unlikely to change your mind. So I really have nothing else to add.

@rooeytoo – I would only question when the last time you made minimum wage was, because it has not kept pace with inflation. Minimum wage is currently $7.25 an hour. At 40 hours a week (which you’d probably have to find 2½ time jobs to swing in this economy), that is $15,080 a year. After Social Security and Medicare taxes, that is $13,900 a year. At that rate, you would also end up getting a personal exemption and a standard deduction on your Federal and State taxes to the tune of about $10k, but you’d pay a total of about 15% in taxes total state and federal on average on the remaining $4k, or another $600. You are down to $13,300 a year in take home. Let’s say you don’t own an automobile so you don’t have to pay insurance, car payment, gas, etc., but you do have to pay $100+ a month for mass transportation, you’re down to $12k take home or about $1k a month. Let’s say you find an apartment for $450 a month that includes ultilities….that’s a shitty apartment no matter where you live. So $550 a month. A young, healthy person would be lucky to get health insurance for $250 a month these days and NO minimum wage job is going to give health insurance benefits, so you’re down to $300 a month to cover food, clothing, and emergencies…you’re not going to be able to afford “entertainment”. Basically if you live as frugally as possible, you CAN survive, you can’t really “live” but you CAN survive. So let’s say you want a family of 4. Now, clearly that’s not feasible unless your spouse also works. Of course, you need a bigger apartment, more money for insurance, public transport, food, clothing, etc. But a 2 bedroom, maybe $600 for a shitty 2 bedroom, not quite double, you save $300 a month, but where are you going to get kid care for $300 a month for 2 kids? Which you’d need. So, you both end up working 3 20 hour a week jobs, never seeing each other, just to feed and house your families. In America in 2009, it is next to impossible if NOT impossible to do what you did, whenever it was that you did it, period.

Maybe you have chosen the wrong veterinarian. My grandson works for our vet, and she charges one of the lowest rates in town, plus she and all her staff love animals, and do a lot of pro-bono work.