Would you condone this for your child?

Probably not. I see nothing wrong with fake tattoos on little kids, but that location is weird. Cindy Crawford did it with her little girl though. Looks creepy to me.

@casheroo It’s not a weird placement. It’s a perverted placement. I think the whole idea of tramp stamps is to provide “art” for whoever it is standing behind the behind. Ooooh see what I did there?

No way
I would never want kids

If my daughter wanted a fake tattoo like that, I don’t think I would forbid her, but I would certainly ask her a lot of questions about it. She’s 13, btw. However, my daughter probably wouldn’t get one there because she doesn’t usually show her midriff. She has very fair skin and burns easily. Also, I don’t think she would want one, because she understands what it means.

I think I would explain to my daughter what the connotation of a tattoo in that area signifies and then allow her to make the decision herself. I would not approve of such a placement myself. But I can’t be judgmental about large tattoos in general since by the time I do have a kid (if that happens), I will have my entire back piece done.

@daloon It’s great that your daughter is smart. She is 13 so she is coming into sexual awareness. The girl in my question was so small. She had to be 7 to 9 years old. No where near being sexually aware but rather having sexual awareness pushed on her by whoever condoned the tat.

No not at that young age!

::sigh:: Kids.

No, I wouldn’t condone that at all. And I have a real tat on that part of my back, too. When I got mine, though, there was no such concept as ‘tramp stamp’, nor did I tell everyone that I had one there.

to each his own really. and how do you know she was nine? could have been thirteen and just looked younger…

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 So you would condone this for your child?

I have a 12-YO daughter, and have raised another daughter to majority, and the scariest thing to me has been premature hypersexualization, which is not limited to inappropriate tattoos. It is ubiquitous throughout the culture, and very difficult to combat.

@Deepness I don’t have a kid. so until then I try to reserve judgment until I have experienced a similar situation, I don’t think it’s fair to do such things if you don’t really know what you’re talking about in the first place.

Kids learn from mimicking adults.
They want to try the things they see adults doing. If a child wants to wear a fake tattoo, I don’t see a problem with it. My friend’s 5 year old wears fake tattoos and it doesn’t seem to be a problem.

@The_Compassionate_Heretic I don’t think it’s the tat that irks me. It’s the placement of said tat.

@Deepness just curious, do you like it when mature women have that sort of tattoo?

If I had a daughter, I would strongly discourage her from becoming part of the Horz Bratz culture. Little girls should not look like sex objects. I would not want her to wear certain clothes, makeup, etc., nor would I acquire them for her. Anything that screams “fuck me” to older guys is not something I’d want my daughter to go out in public wearing until she was emotionally ready to know and deal maturely with the consequences of looking a certain way. Same would go with those tattoos and I would do my best to explain to her that there are some things you can do to make you look older, which make you look like you’re smart and know not to get involved with certain things that could be dangerous, and there are other things you can do to make you look older that make people think you’d be willing to try or do just about anything, no matter how bad or dangerous it was for you, and that these things, even if they don’t mean anything bad to YOU, do make some people think you’re the kind of girl they could treat a certain way…and that’s a way you don’t to be treated. Something along those lines…but I would try to avoid “forbidding” it outright. I’d do my damndest to make it seem like she was in control and making the decision, but I definitely wouldn’t let her at age 9 go out on the street with it uncovered. At minimum I’d say, OK, you can have it and show it to your friends, but don’t just let strangers see because some strangers could get the wrong impression about you, and that could cause you to be less safe.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 No. I think it’s trashy. One person’s trash is another person’s gold. To each his/her own. The question isn’t about adults with tramp stamps. It’s about kids with tramp stamps. Why exactly am I in question?

@dalepetrie Thank you! You said exactly what I could not find the words to say.

in short: on an adult, a tattoo on the lower back is a tramp stamp. on a little girl, it is a temporary tattoo that she just wanted there because she thought it looked pretty. regardless of where a little girl gets a tattoo, perverted minds will remain perverted minds. i wouldn’t condone it, but i don’t think it’s obscenely adult.

as bad of a reputation as tramp stamps have, i would not expect a 9 year old girl to know that. nor would i expect her parents to be like, “no honey, only porn stars get tattoos there! go urbandictionary it, it’s like a target!”. and she wasn’t even wearing a belly shirt to show it off? maybe it’s just because i’m young, but i don’t see a problem with it really. if i were her mother i most definitely wouldn’t encourage her to get it there, but if that’s where she wants it, and she’s not wearing a midriff top (or looking like a skank in general), whatever.

Don’t you think it more likely mom or older female relatives have those tattoos than the child was influenced by ‘the American culture”? If the mother didn’t have or approve of slutty tattoos. the girl wouldn;t have faux ones. My sister, who doesn’t have the sense of a chicken, used to dress her son like his absentee father. A cross betwwn punk and outlaw biker. She always said that’s what he wanted. Sheesh!

No, but that’s because I don’t live in a trashy part of town. Don’t you know that anything goes in the ghetto areas?

Parents are good or bad in the ghetto and in gated communities. I’ve seen more trashy tats on pink skin than on brown skin. Psst, cover up, your prejudice is hanging out.

Tramp stamps are trashy at any age. The sad thing is, her family probably thought it was adorable. It’s another example of how over-sexed kids are.

I don’t like tattoos on anyone for any reason, but that’s just me. When I see somebody with a tattoo, I just look away.

How silly. A henna painting is far more preferable to a real tat as it will soon disappear.

the other responders r silly; not your post, yarn!

Maybe she just looked young.

I’m so sick of the term “tramp stamp”. I have a tattoo in that area and got it before that term existed. It would be awesome if people would stop using it since that isn’t what it is. It’s a tattoo, end of story. It shouldn’t mean the person with it is a tramp.

I let my nine year old put fake tattoos around her belly button when we went to a Renaissance Faire. I’d never heard of a tramp stamp, but I don’t think there is really a difference in what I allow my daughter to do and what this parent did. And yes, I think my daughter looks uber-dorable, and no, I don’t feel that I’m sexualizing her, because it’s for a special event where, yeesh, there are lots of boobs, cleavage, and belly dancing type things going on.

My question was, was she alone riding her bike? There was no supervision around to notice you gawking at her? Sorry, no offense, but it would be more troubling to me that a girl is might be her own than the placement of her fake tattoo.

No way in hell would I allow my daughter (especially that young) to have a fake tramp stamp. Disturbing.

I used to tell my daughter not to write on herself. She resisted.
When she turned 18, she moved out, and got several tattoos. She now works as a body piercer.
Maybe I should have let her get it out of her system.

@filmfann There’s a big difference between letting a child write on themselves and letting a girl around the age of 9 have a tramp stamp. Placement, mostly, is the biggest difference. A tramp stamp was designed to be sexual in nature. Simply writing on yourself isn’t sexual.

@DrasticDreamer I don’t think it is meant to be sexual in nature. It is usually a tribal design. If they want something sexually alluring, I am sure there are better ideas.
I am more alarmed that someone had to apply this to a 9 year old.

@filmfann It is sexual in nature. They’re right above your ass for a reason and they’re meant to be seen.

@DrasticDreamer That’s a bold generalization regarding the tattoo. It only becomes sexual if said person with it wants it to be.

@galileogirl

And I’ve seen more trashy tattoos on brown skin than on pink skin. Oh snap. Here in the Bay Area, the more ghetto areas tend to not be white, but notice I said nothing about skin color and I was talking about the area. The poster never said the girl in question was not white. Simple fact that majority of people around here who buy “bling bling” for their cars and have trashy tattoos or clothing are from poorer areas.

@jeanna Yes, you’re right, it’s a generalization. 99% of the women I’ve seen with them purposely show them off, so it’s not a generalization I’m unwilling to make.

@DrasticDreamer Like I said, it’s up to the person with it to have it be seen. I have one and no one really sees it, except my boyfriend.

@DrasticDreamer In your experience, which is limited. It’s a stereotype. You’re basing an opinion on an assumption regarding strangers. If that isn’t a stretch, well, call me Sally.

@jeanna How is her experience limited when most other people will say the same thing?

Absolutely not.

I would not allow any tattoo, anywhere.

@Facade She doesn’t really have any experience. Her judgment is based on an assumption regarding strangers. The tramp stamp term came about thanks to porn stars. Certainly doesn’t mean women with them are tramps. At some point, we can actually stop using stereotypes. It starts with just one person.

@jeanna So if 100% of them females I know who have tramp stamps are sluts, that means nothing?

Tramp stamp is a common term, but in no way denotes someone is a tramp, and it is not about sex. Some might be, but there is NO WAY anyone can determine why someone got a tattoo in a specific place.

@DrBill Even a temporary one?

@DrasticDreamer I have been thinking on your statement. I can see how a man’s forearm tattoo could be represented as being macho. Do you mean the Tramp Stamp is kind of like that? (is there a female word for macho?)

@benjaminlevi

Not even a temporary one.

I would also not buy a child candy cigarettes, it just sets a bad example to a malleable mind.

@DrBill Curious, why do you so strongly object to tattoos? Would you “condone” one after your child was 18 and moved out?

@DrBill

I got candy cigarettes as a kid (not super young) but I was raised to believe smoking was an old-fashioned thing that no one does anymore because it gives you lung cancer. Everyone I know just smokes pot.

@benjaminlevi

When they are a self supporting adult, they can make their own decisions, I would not condone a tattoo, but it would be their choice even if I don’t like it.

@Facade Is that the case? Any proof to them being “sluts”? I’m a fan of logic, not assumptions and judgments.

@Facade Do you know a majority of the women with “tramp stamps”?

And what defines slut? To some, having one partner out of wedlock makes a woman a slut.

Whoa, you can’t possibly say every girl with a tattoo on her lower back is a slut. I have one of my lower back. My parents let me get a very large lower back tattoo, I had just turned 17. They thought it would deter me from getting more tattoos. That plan backfired. But, I still have the stupid tattoo that they let me get. Parents think kids learn from their mistakes, but they usually don’t until the make quite a few. The more I think about this, the more I might allow it, since maybe they’d get it out of their system or just be able to express themself. It doesn’t have to be sexual. Mine isn’t sexual at all.

I don’t think the parents had actually agreed. The person helping her could have been another little girl, and perhaps there are tattoos like that which you can buy even when you are 9 (perhaps the other girl was 15 or something). But I can imagine far worse things happening to a 9-year-old than having a fake tattoo on her back. She could have been hit by a truck while riding that bike for example.

Not sure how I’d feel as a parent. Probably wouldn’t like it, but wouldn’t bother that much.

@Deepness because if you didn’t think a lower back tattoo was trashy on an adult you’d have less of a problem with one on a child. would you be opposed to a girl that age getting a fake tattoo put on her arm? probably not. you’re social expectations are what dictates this, and to some people, lots of people rather, a lower back tattoo isn’t trashy at all.

I think my niece takes the cake when considering children with fake tats.

@jeanna First of all, I never said that just because a woman has a tramp stamp that it makes her a slut. Just because something is sexual in nature doesn’t mean it automatically equates to someone being a slut.

Second of all: I do have experience. Experience with the multiple women I know and have met who have those tattoos. Every single one of them got them to show off and generally, yes, they’re the women who sleep with more people. <—- And never once did I say that was a bad thing. The only thing I said is that, in my experience (nice of you to assume I have none, by the way, considering you know nothing about my experience or lack thereof) is that “tramp stamps” are in general sexual in nature.

Lastly: I’m not one for sweeping generalizations or stereotypes usually. Some of the raging debates I’ve had on this site have to do with just how stupid I think they are. That said, there are still norms for things, regardless of what anyone thinks. And the norm around here, where I live, is that they are indeed sexual in nature.

Don’t judge what kind of person I am before you know more about me.

@DrasticDreamer I love when people are so obviously pissed on the internet. I said your experience is limited. You obviously have an issue with a tattoo on the lower back. Just because the few women you know like to show them off does not give you the right to label it a tramp stamp. The point in my comments, which you seemed to have not read entirely, is that this is a stereotype. As such, it’s up to us to break the habit of labeling people as trashy, trampy, promiscuous just because of a tattoo.

Your judgments (not mine) were based on assumptions. I simply called you out on what I read in your comments. Your supposed involvement in other discussions on this site are irrelevant. You’ve bought into the stereotype. I don’t care to interact with such people who do.

@jeanna I’m not pissed. There’s no point in getting pissed when you’re having a conversation with someone – it gets people nowhere. For as much as you say you don’t like judging people, you sure are judging me a lot. It seems as if you misunderstood a lot of things I’ve said – especially because I just said that simply because a woman has a “tramp stamp” that it does not make her a slut. As I said above, again, it simply tends to be sexual in nature. Sexual in nature does not equate to “trashy, trampy, promiscuous…” in my world. So what stereotype, exactly, have I bought into? Calling it a “tramp stamp”? What other name for it is there, do you know? It’s not just a back tattoo – it’s a specific kind. So by all means, if there is another name for it, inform me and I will use it.

I can see how a tit or crotch tattoo can be construed as sexual, but I’ll never understand how lower back tattoos are singularly sexual.

@DrasticDreamer and @jeanna and @tinyfaery We have to accept that a tattoo in that specific location regardless of what the tat is, makes it sexual in nature because when a person catches a glimpse of it, they also inadvertently catch a glimpse of part of your a—crack at times. I don’t know about what the rest may think but a—cracks are definitely sexual. There is no denying that.

We should all agree that a child who hasn’t even reached puberty should not be wearing something which can make it possible for her to be viewed as an object of desire. There are sickos in this world people! Would you want your child tempting these sickos? We do agree pedophiles are sickos, right?

@Deepness little boys probably shouldn’t run around with their shirts off in teh summer then huh? there are sickos after all.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter what any individual person thinks about tattoos in that location, it is what society as a whole thinks of them. And that is that they are sexually enticing, or meant to be. Given that, I would not allow my daughters to have a fake tattoo in that location.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Dude, I’m done talking reason to you. You let your future daughters become statistics if you want. I pray them safe haven from your ill parenting skills. Peace.

plenty of people with foot fetishes too, probably shouldn’t wear flip flops around anymore… you see what I’m getting at yet?

@Deepness Exactly! My entire point is that specific fake tattoo automatically draws the eye to someone’s ass. And that is extremely inappropriate on a 9-year-old girl. I never once called women who have them sluts. I don’t even believe in the word “slut”, but that’s a different conversation altogether. The placement is just not okay for a kid.

the fact of the matter is, a sicko’s still a sicko tattoo or not. you stare at a girls ass regardless of reason, you’ve got some morality issues. I don’t care if she’s dancing to the thong song in a bathing suit, it doesn’t take a tattoo for some pervert to stare at a young girl/boy.
The only reason you have a problem with this girl, who we’re not even sure what her true age is, is because you’ve stereotyped that particular piece of art as slutty. my girlfriend has one, it’s a personal piece that I designed for her that’s in memory of her mother and sister that died in a car crash, is she a slut for it? the fact is you assume a girl who has that is a tramp.
That’d be like me coming up to you, and calling you a douche bag having never met you, and then saying it’s because douche bags always wear their hats like that. it’s an absolutely ridiculous stereotype and you know it.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Who, exactly, is calling women with those tattoos slutty? Seriously, it’s a genuine question. Pedophiles are pedophiles, yes, but that doesn’t mean you should condone your young daughter to wear something that will be even more likely to call attention to an area a grown man shouldn’t be looking at in the first place.

For the record, for the millionth time, I am not of the opinion that women with those tattoos are sluts. Deepness, what about you? Are women with them sluts? augustian, are they sluts? They are simply inappropriate for a child.

I know I’m done being judged by people who accused me of judging others now. Oh, the irony…

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Dude, you’re killing me here. You designed a memorial tat for your gf and she had it placed above her ass? Way to go… clap, clap, clap

No, I don’t think your gf is a slut or tramp. I don’t know her well enough to judge her. Please read through this entire thread and listen to what is being said.

It’s about the term used. It doesn’t have to be labeled as such. To call it a “tramp stamp” certainly does imply the person with one is a tramp. It can simply be called a lower back tattoo. Are there other special names for the locations of other tattoos? We don’t need special names for them, especially when the names carry such harmful implications.

definition from here
a. A prostitute.
b. A person regarded as promiscuous.

now, slutty…
a. A person, especially a woman, considered sexually promiscuous.
b. A woman prostitute.

holy moses! those two definitions seem pretty similar don’t they?

saying something is a “tramp stamp” implies that person is slutty by definition, so by referring to that tattoo as such, you’re calling the wearer a slut. before you use a word or term, it helps if you are aware of it’s definition and synonyms.

She put it there because it’s a big piece, and very well done if I say so myself, so rather than scale it back, she put it somewhere it would fit, it has nothing to do with your stereotype. I used it as an example to show that you are generalizing without valid justification.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 heh We seem to be on the same wavelength.

“especially because I just said that simply because a woman has a “tramp stamp” that it does not make her a slut.” from DrasticD.

“She had a tramp stamp (tattoo above the ass).” from Deepness

so yes, both of you are saying it’s slutty. and stereotyping, and contradicting yourselves quite heavily.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 I didn’t invent the term “tramp stamp” lol. I do use it pretty liberally.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03

Putting something in quotes usually indicates that you are not using the term in seriousness but are mocking it or indicating that it is not the best choice of words.

@Deepness regardless of what your personal definition is, that is the true definition, and it’s highly offensive.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Let’s forget about your gf having a lower back tat and back to the question. You would allow your 9 year old daughter to get such a tat? Mind you, I did not confirm this girl’s age but she was no taller than 3 feet and weighed about 50 pounds. She was tiny. She was definitely a child.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Nowhere did I say a woman with that tattoo was a slut. I said multiple times that I did not believe that to be the case. I also said that if there was a different name for it, I would use it. As applies to the actual question asked you can’t just call it a “back tattoo” because the location is relevant to the question. “Lower back tattoo” works and I’ll call it that from now on.

And Boobs – yes, I put the word in quotes because I didn’t know what else to call it. Nowhere did I say anyone with that tattoo was a slut. You and jeanna are very quick to judge when it seems that’s what you hate the most.

@Deepness you asked me that once before, I’d rather not have to repeat myself.

@DrasticDreamer so if I say “I’m not racist, but that guy’s a nigger” it’s ok? that’s what isn’t being understood here, you’re using the term, regardless of you’re own definition of it, it’s still offensive.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Ok I will call it a lower back tat if it satisfies you. I’m really not the most politically correct person you would ever come across.

@Deepness it does, that’s all I was asking :).

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 No, it’s not okay. As I just said, “lower back tattoo” is much more acceptable and I said I would stop using the term “tramp stamp”. But when someone who is blatantly not calling a woman with that tattoo a slut, it’s ridiculous for you and jeanna to jump down their throat. Why approach the situation with so much hostility and accusation? Pointing something out is much different than judging others and automatically jumping down their throat. Especially because it’s what you seem to hate in the first place.

@DrasticDreamer I wasn’t being hostile at all. I brought up the definition, never once did I call you ignorant, stupid or anything of that nature. I certainly wasn’t judging by any means, and I’m sorry if I came off as that way, the internet obviously does not show tone of voice and my writing capabilities are somewhat lacking when it comes to showing my emotion. what part of our conversation offended you?

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 But you still have to agree that society’s norm surrounding lower back tats is one where “tramp stamps” label came from. That being said, you will be judged by society’s norm. Who defines society’s norm? I have no idea. I guess it is us as individuals who define it. Now, if the majority of people view a tat placed in said location as sexual, does it make the world a safer place for a 9 year old with said tat?

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 The fact that you said I was calling people with those tattoos sluts, when I said on numerous occasions that I in no way believed that to be the truth.

@Deepness that’s the thing, individual’s decide societal normality. displaying to you that using the term tramp stamp can offend those who have some back ink alters the societal norm for you.

@DrasticDreamer I know you didn’t think those who had them were in fact slutty, I said that your use of the term implies it, even if it’s not intentional, I didn’t mean any insult by it.

@ DominicX Excuse me, I misunderstood you but since the term “ghetto” generally refers to only 2 groups you must be referring to Jewish people, right Noah Webster? I am surprised you dtdn’t write that your best friend… is. . . Don’t try to backtrack. Most of the people here know exactly what you meant,

She’s 9. The girl does not understand that what tramp and the placement really means. She wants to be like the grown u kids, do what’s perceived as cool. Her parents might not speak English, and may not know what the word means, it’s The Bronx. I wouldn’t let my 9 year old wear that tattoo, but I wouldn’t be quick to judge the parents who do allow it.

@jeanna You can wish all you want about how tattoos are named, and you can shout out what your intentions were in getting a tattoo on your lower back, but you can’t change the way people look at it if you never interact with them in any way other than exposing your lower back. Bare lower backs, like bare stomachs, are sexual in nature in the cultures that most of us live in. This, I believe, is because it is unusual to display these parts of your body in these cultures.

Tramp stamps and bare midriffs draw the viewers attention downward, away from the face and upper torso, and in so doing, they point towards the genitalia. For me, it makes me imagine pulling down the woman’s pants. Frankly, I think that most women who get tattoos in these areas (yourself excluded) want to draw attention to how hot they are. They want the admiration. They want (even if they don’t think about it) for men (or women) to imagine more intimate activities with them.

And even for a person who hides it, it is often, I believe, a kind of secret, intimate thing that only an intimate partner gets to see. Other women have tattoos that are generally hidden by a bikini bottom that are quite explicitly only for intimate partners. I’ve heard women say the tattoos are just for themselves, and this may be true, but it doesn’t stop other people from reacting as they will. In any case, I don’t believe that anyone would get a tattoo if there was noone else in the world to see it. It’s a form of communication, and communication makes no sense if there’s no one to communicate to. Besides, why put a tattoo in a place you can’t see it if it is for you?

A tattoo just above the overtly sexual tattoo is implicitly sexual. It draws the attention towards the sexual parts of a body and hints that there may be more that is hidden. Hell! There is more that is hidden even if there are no tattoos hidden below. You can protest all you want about how you think of your tattoo, but that doesn’t stop other people from seeing it as they will. Further, I don’t really believe that in some, perhaps subconscious part of your mind, you were not also quite aware of the symbolism of the tattoo as far as the general public is concerned. Otherwise, why would you keep it private all (or almost all) of the time?

Like I said, it’s up to the person with it to have it be seen. I have one and no one really sees it, except my boyfriend.

Oh, see? You said it right there. It’s sexual for you, too. It’s only seen by your intimate partner.

So the question remains for you. How do you feel about a nine-year old girl adorning herself with decorations that are implicitly or explicitly sexual? Is it cool with you that a girl of that age points out her sexual nature, and invites people to treat her more as if her sexuality were more important than anything else about her?

I would no more let a girl that age have a fake tramp stamp OR wear lipstick. I have a daughter.

@daloon My reasons for getting the tattoo were not sexual, but then I don’t need to prove anything to you. When I got it, I had never heard that term. I’ve had it for many years. I’m not going to explain what the tattoo is of; much like my other tattoos, it has a meaning. I don’t show any of them, usually, because they are personal. They all have a meaning and I don’t just share that meaning with the world, hence why all of them can be covered up. I don’t condone using that term, no more than I do using any derogatory term.

As for the question, I do not have kids. If my child, no matter the age, wanted a fake tattoo in any place then I would question as to why they wanted it. Based on those answers, I would most likely allow them to have it. I imagine my daughter would most likely want it on her lower back because I have one there.

As for what society deems, well, who better to change that than….SOCIETY. I don’t just talk about changing the world; I actually do every thing I can, no matter how small, to change it.

@jeanna Why did you put it on your back?

Lame.

50 years ago people assumed those with tattoos were criminals and/or prostitutes. Now, people from every walk of life have one.

To assume a tattoo in a specific area has certain conotations is just as bad as the old stereotypes. The lower back tattoo was such a fad that there is no way every girl who got one got it to turn on the onlookers. Not everyone shows their ass crack.

Maybe it’s time to challenge your assumptions instead of trying to condone them.

I think the thing girls should know is that MEN see lower back tattoos as meaning you are highly sexualized. You might have been innocent when getting it, but you need to be aware of what you are putting out there. I think I have said once before on Fluther that I worked for a lingerie company, and moms with their 12 year olds would come in and buy thong underwear for their 12 year olds so they have no panty line. They might be so young that they really are only considering the panty line, or they might think it is cool cause their friends do it, or they might be feeling sexy already at the age of 12. It could be any of those things. What I know is the men I know, when they see thong underwear on a woman, they think about sex, and they think the woman wants sex. The man is assuming the woman knows what message she is putting out there. Women like to feel sexy. And a back tattoo is something that can be hidden in the work place, so that’s good. You can have it out when you want, and not when you don’t. But you can’t ignore it is a sexual tattoo in our society.

“I think the thing girls should know is that MEN see lower back tattoos as meaning you are highly sexualized.”

that is incorrect.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 ok, a lot of men, is that better? Generalizations are just that, I understand it does not apply to every man.

@daloon As I said in my comment, my tattoos are personal and I don’t discuss their meaning nor the reasons for their locations. This discussion has been about the sexual nature of the location, and, as I’ve said already, the location was not chosen in a sexual sense. We all find different areas of the body sexy. So instead of giving me a hard time for not buying into stereotypes and trying to challenge the assumptions many of you have made, why don’t you challenge yourself.

@tinyfaery If multiple people you know, or even most people you know believe that a tattoo in a certain area has certain connotations, they why would it be unreasonable to assume that is a norm?

The norm may be incorrect insofar as the intentions of the person with the tattoo, but the intentions of the person with the tattoo have nothing to do with the way other people judge that person. For a person to maintain that such tattoos do not have these implications seems to me to be quite disingenuous.

We can challenge our assumptions all we want, and maybe, over the long term, people’s ideas about tramp stamps will change. We are not yet at that point, and I don’t think we ever will be. I think the assumptions are warranted. Maybe not in your case, but in general. I would also question your case. I don’t think that people are completely aware of their own motivations, and there is the possibility that you do things for other reasons than you believe you are doing them.

@jeanna I do believe I challenge myself most of the time, and I think your reasons for placing the tattoo where you did are relevant to the discussion and would inform the discussion in an important way. I think that the fact that you refuse to offer your reasons suggests that you may be hiding something relevant to the conversation, especially since you are willing to say that something is not the reason for choosing that location. In any case, I think it reduces your credibility.

I’m fine with that. You have no obligation to discuss your personal choices (although I wonder why you would be reluctant to do so, since this place offers anonymity). I’m just pointing out the possible consequences of that choice.

@daloon There is no anonymity on this site. The people on this site who know me know I don’t usually discuss many things, such as religion and politics. It is a personal choice. I don’t share much about myself in person, much less on the internet. My close friends know the reasons for my tattoos. You can see this as a reduction in my credibility, and that’s fine. In a very similar sense, I’ve learned something about you as well.

Take care.

@galileogirl

No, my best friend is white and so are the majority of my friends. The point is, you see more trashy tattoos like that in poorer areas. In poorer areas that I’ve seen, the kids basically do what they want, otherwise you wouldn’t see them joining gangs and such. It wouldn’t surprise me that a kid got a tattoo in a poor urban area. Poor urban areas tend to be some of the worst in the whole country. A kid I knew (18 years old) was shot three times randomly on the streets by other kids his age. That doesn’t happen in “gated communities”. You can deny it all you want for the sake of your pretentious bleeding-heart liberal political correctness, but it is true.

@daloon Because that’s what people should do—challenge their assumptions, specificaly when others are giving you info to the contrary. That’s how one learns and grows as a person.

To say that men think those tattoos mean a girl is trying to turn them on is the same as saying a girl in promiscuous clothes deserves to be raped.

@Dominic Your comment strikes me as bit racist.

@tinyfaery

How? Please explain how I claimed that certain races are inherently inferior to others.

@tinyfaery

To say that men think those tattoos mean a girl is trying to turn them on is the same as saying a girl in promiscuous clothes deserves to be raped.

Oh no, no, no! There is a long distance between trying to be sexy and asking to be raped. I hope you don’t conflate the two.

@jeanna Fair enough.

I think it’s crazy people are condoning judging a woman for having a lower back tattoo. You’re either part of the problem, or you’re not.
And geez, I never knew it automatically meant I was a slut and poor. :rolls eyes:

Oh, a guy sees as a tattoo as sexual so I can’t have one where I want it? Oh, so a guys sees my mini skirt and assumes I “want it” so I shouldn’t wear what I want. What is the difference. Either way I can’t do what I want because of what some guy might say or do. (And people say we no longer need feminism). This comment was based on this “I think the thing girls should know is that MEN see lower back tattoos as meaning you are highly sexualized. You might have been innocent when getting it, but you need to be aware of what you are putting out there.” by @JLeslie not to anything @daloon said.

@DominicX So, what kind of people live in the poor urban areas and who lives in the gated community? Minorities are more likely to get tattooed? Why is that?

@tinyfaery

In San Francisco and the San Francisco Bay Area, the people who live in poor urban areas tend to Hispanic, African American, and Pacific Islander. That is not a racist statement. That is a statistical fact. I don’t understand why it has to be racist to point out that white people don’t typically in these poor urban areas. I also understand from reading statistics about such places like Camden NJ, Detroit, New York City, and visiting Los Angeles, that poor urban areas across the country tend to have the same “races” in them. I don’t care about “race”. I don’t know if minorities are more likely to get tattooed, I have seen tattoos on both minorities and “white people”. I don’t think all tattoos are trashy or slutty by any means. The fact that the 9-year-old girl in question with a tattoo was from the bad part of the Bronx doesn’t surprise me since from what I have observed, kids get away with a lot more in the poorer urban areas than they do in the “gated communities”.

I think I am being misunderstood. You can wear whatever you want. I would never say that because a girl wears a short skirt she deserves to be raped. I agree we should not assume as a society what is in the head of the person wearing certain types of clothes. My point is many in our society do. I personally would never call a young girl a slut because she has a tattoo or wears tight clothing. My parents actually let me wear heals and short skirts younger than a lot of my friends, way before I ever had sex. I also, as a side note never drank alcohol (maybe a sip on three different occasions, but never a glass) or got hi. When I finally did have sex I was with the same guy for 6 years, so even though I was relatively young (summer before 11th grade) I was not premiscuous. I BET if you ask the guys who knew me in high school they thought I was doing it when I wasn’t. I also found out later that some of the parents of my friends thought I was a bad influence…I was the straightest one in the group. So I get that you can be innocent in your head, but other people perceive you a certain way by what you wear.

@DominicX Whenever I talk about social class, race, etc. on Fluther there is always a bunch of people who want to deny these things exist.

One last thing, we can’t compare tattoos from cracker jacks to tattoos of today. Not sure how old you are @Deepness but when I was a kid, I’m 41, adult women did not even have tattoos on their back. Kids want to act like grow ups, that has always been true. Cracker jack tattoos were not to be like an adult, they were just cute and fun and had cartoons we liked.

Much lurve to @tinyfaery and @casheroo for your answers.

I think all any of us can aspire to is trying to see beyond what society claims is truth.

@DrasticDreamer By the way, the reason I stated the things I did is because you did use the term and you did not put it in quotes in your first few comments. You also stated it was sexual in nature. These statements certainly do imply that you feel the women that have them are tramps. You don’t always need to say the words in order to mean them. Implications go quite a long way. In essence, because I have a lower back tattoo, one could argue that you’ve judged me as a tramp. I just hope, since you claim to not be so judgmental, that you’ll think before you speak next time.

@Dominc You statement “The fact that the 9-year-old girl in question with a tattoo was from the bad part of the Bronx doesn’t surprise me since from
what I have observed, kids get away with a lot more in the poorer urban areas than they
do in the “gated communities”.
does nothing to contradict my first comment.

And it is so easy for those not affected by racism to claim not to care about it.

That has nothing to do with race! It has to do with economic level; the girl could be white for all I give a fuck.

@tinyfaery How does making observations about socio-economic groups make you a racist? It is just statistical facts, nothing more. Let’s use a more benign example: women in my social class do not keep their fingernails really long, and generally if your nails are very long, you are probably from a lower socio-economic income than me. That is not saying that there are not some women with my same education and household income who have long nails, all it is saying is if you do have very long nails statistically you are more likely to be from a lower class than me. I am not casting judgement on that person, because I hold no judgement about people based on class, I don’t care if you earn $8 an hour or $200 an hour, all I care about really is that you have integrity, but what I would say is that keeping your nails so long, you are giving away your social status.

Thanks for pointing out the problem with statistics. It keeps us from thinking for ourselves, and from stereotyping others.

@tinyfaery I think you meant that stats cause us to stereotype others? I agree that is what stats do, stats can support our stereotypes, but that is then agreeing that a majority of people in a group do behave a certain way. It does not mean that when you meet an individual you just lump them in with what is statistically likely about them; each person deserves the chance to be evaluted (not a good word evaluated, not sure what else to use) on their own accord, as individuals, separate from any obvious groups they might belong to.

@DominicX Since I have taught in an urban public school in San Francisco for almost 20 years, I will put my actual experience up against your anecdotal bigotry any day. BTW it was quite a feat to live and work in San Francisco and limit your social circle to members of one race.

@jeanna I did use the term, you’re right. But I also said that I would stop and that I used the term simply because I didn’t know lower back tattoos by any other name. And for the final time: “Sexual in nature” does NOT equate to “slutty”. Stop saying I think someone is slutty because I say “sexual in nature”, because apparently, we have extremely different meanings for “sexual in nature”. Lingerie is sexual in nature – are you saying that a woman who wears things like that is a slut because she wants to turn someone on? I know I sure as hell wouldn’t.

@galileogirl

And I will put my life in San Francisco over your touchy-feely liberal crap anyday. Please do not speak to me any further. I have no interest in what you have to say if you’re going to accuse me of being a bigot, something I most certainly am not.

The ball is in your court, kiddo. If you don’t want to read something-don’t. But it is beyond your purview to direct who can post on this site. BTW, I first came to San Francisco in 1947, probably before your Mama saw the light of day.

I wouldn’t talk too much shit about “touchy-feely liberal crap”. It’s what allows you to be gay and get housing, jobs, etc.

@tinyfaery : – )

So it’s a package deal, huh, I have to like all of it? Even though some of it is stupid hypocritical bullshit?

If a part of it is hypocritical, then it all is. “touchy-feely liberal crap” is all based on the same idea. People just hate looking at their prejudices, because then they have to accept that they have them, and then (hopefully) change them. Using the cop-out of “touchy-feely liberal crap” just allows people to remain shackled to their prejudices.

@Jack79

I hope you know I didn’t think that was funny at all.

@galileogirl
No, I can’t control who posts, but if yours or anyone else’s posts are just insults then I can take it up with the mods.

@tinyfaery

No, it makes it so pointing out statistics is racist, which is complete and utter bullshit.

Holy hell, what a discussion. Lurve to @Deepness for starting it. I’ve been taking a bit of a hiatus from Fluther, and @JLeslie called me outta my break asking for input; lurve to her as well.

And now… I’m probably not going to respond to anyone in particular, instead focusing on the points at hand.

Firstly, the issue of the lower-back, “tramp stamp” tattoo, in general. Whilst my liberal mindset has forced me into thinking of the better of society and how we can progress, I understand full well and cannot ignore the sexual connotations adhered to the placement of such a thing. The fact of the matter is this: when I see lower-back tattoo on a woman with a tight body, bad thoughts fill my head. Is that bad of me to admit that?

I’d like to think not. You see, just because I view any particular woman with sexual desire does not equate to me viewing a woman to be a slut, tramp, whore, or what have you. It matters not what the tattoo is – it could be a butterfly, tribal design or “Enter Here” in cursive with an arrow pointing downwards – a sexual tattoo or a tattoo in a place that could be seen as sexual does not call for instant branding, if you’d excuse the super-lame pun.

You can disagree with me on this, sure.

“But Grisaille,” you cry in confusion and anger, “How can you say such a thing? If someone has the word ‘slut’ written on their chest in bold letters, that obviously makes them a slut!”

“No,” I say, punching you in the face. “If I were to put a sticker on an orange that says ‘Apple’, would that make the orange an apple?”

The correct and fair argument against my claim would be such: social perception transcends intent. In fact, society rarely cares of intent, instead focusing on the creation at hand.

You see, the person that put the sticker on the orange could have done it as a joke. His intent does not play a factor in what society may think of the object in itself; some may choose to believe that the orange is indeed an apple. In fact, society is, by definition, a conglomeration of human beings coexisting – therefore, society is a mass complex of a myriad of ideals and viewpoints; it is subjective in nature, despite what people may tell you of the “hive mind”. Any any given point in time, a new viewpoint may arise and break away from the common belief.

What am I getting at? The idea that society believes one thing or another is inherently flawed. We are not connected via some neural network; generalizations are ridiculous.

To put it bluntly: everyone, it doesn’t matter what or where a tattoo is. The only significant aspect of the whole “tramp stamp” issue is the intent of the user, the bearer. Broad generalizations pollute the mind; I think we’d all do well if we realize that any given body adornment has nothing to do with you. You can yell “SLUT” till you’re blue in the face, and that takes nothing away from the object in question.

Conversely, you can yell “NOT A SLUT” as well and that doesn’t change shit, either. It is the intent of the tattoo the wearer hold that has any importance whatsoever. You can call modern art a waste of time or of holding no value; that does not change the author’s perspective. What he believes to be art is art, ya dig?

Okay, moving forward – let’s answer the actual question.

No, I would not condone this for my child.

First let me start off by saying I grew up in The Bronx, in poverty, hopping around homeless shelters – the works.

Someone brought up the point that a 9 year old girl does not know the sexual connotations that a lower back tattoo might have. That is quite false. So false, that I feel like stabbing myself in the eye.

When I was 7, I was already calling girls sluts (what? I never said I was a model kid), knowing full well the vigor, definition and social stigma such a term has. Similarly, the girl being verbally assaulted knew that what I was calling her was bad.

Speaking as an urban kid, this is not surprising.

A kid growing up in poverty has to learn – quickly. This holds true over a long, broad spectrum. I described in an earlier thread that whereas a kid from a suburban neighborhood with wealthy parents tends to focus more on more studious matters, a kid with very little instead focuses on gaining some sort of support structure under their feet. Ripped directly from the thread:

“You see, schools teach – sure – but what they fail to do is give students a glimpse of what else is in the world outside of The Bronx. Society is foreign to them; a job with a decent salary in Manhattan is a scary, alien thought – one unattainable. It’s considered the “White World”, in fact.

This is why many turn to selling drugs, joining gangs and what have you; it’s the only thing they know. And it’s a damn shame, as this is rooted in their own self-consciousness of the world around them. They feel the need to fend for themselves, in a way – they feel as if society hates them and thinks them to be scum. This is all due to schools and teachers not instilling a sense of confidence, motivation, etc.”

Because a kid from a lower social class may not have a wise, loving parental figure, they instead turn to gaining the acceptance of the next best thing: older kids from the block.

You see what I’m getting at?

Hypersexualization of our youth does not begin with the media, society’s viewpoint of anything of the sort. It stems from the youth mingling with the older kids, attempting to be more like them; from there, the hypersexualization begets social perspective, not the other way around. Just wanted to clarify that.

So yes, I believe that that 9 year old girl knew full well what she was doing. It comes with the class; if you’re of a lower economic circle, chances are you have a much more sexual mindset than someone of a higher economic circle.

@Grisaille well said

@DominicX Who said statistics are racist? Statistics are numbers. Without an application, they mean nothing. Certain people believe that these numbers support their ideas, while others who have the exact opposite beliefs, see those same numbers as supportive to their arguments. You choose to do with those numbers what you please.

Ugh! @Grisaille There are so many assumptions you are making, I don’t even know where to begin. I give up.

“So yes, I believe that that 9 year old girl knew full well what she was doing. It comes with the class; if you’re of a lower economic circle, chances are you have a much more sexual mindset than someone of a higher economic circle.” Gross.

What’s so gross about it? I clearly wrote why I think this is the case.

You can either agree or disagree; saying “gross” to what I believe is a fair statement doesn’t really add to the conversation.

At least give me a counter-argument to why I’m wrong; your comment is quite rude.

Gross = I cannot believe someone actually thinks that. Much like I would say to someone who said…man, I won’t even say it. Just color me disgusted. Bye.

…right.

@tinyfaery I’m totally with you on this. This thread has completely depressed me. I don’t even know how to respond.

I think it’s funny that there are still at least three people following this thread who agree with @Grisaille. I suppose now I can see on which issues we are divided.

I want to know why what I said has people “disgusted”, “depressed” or whatever.

Did anyone read what I wrote?

You have to understand: if a 9 year old girl is around other girls, aged around 16–25, chances are THE TOPIC OF SEX WILL COME UP.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that most children look up to and reach out to the older kids, cooler kids. Because they are mimicing their every move and learning from them, of course they will follow in their footsteps.

Would you agree with me on that?

Would you also agree with me that sexual promiscuity and teenage pregnancy is higher in poorer economic areas?

Please, correct me on this. I’m not trying to troll, be an asshole or anything of the sort. I genuinely would like to know why the viewpoint I have is so apparently moot that it deserves naught a counter point or even the slightest shred of credibility; instead, it is being shrugged off into irrelevance. Why is there so much hostility?

Fuck this; if you’ve reminded me why I had a mild distaste in my mouth when I took my break from Fluther – no one can share an opposing ideology or thought without someone else being a dick towards you. Mature, open forum my ass.

@Grisaille Although I question whether the 9 year old really has full grasp of what she is doing, meaning the consequences (especially psychlogical) of what might happen when playing the sexual game, I understand she knows what sex is. I do completely agree that she wants to be like the older kids, what she perceives as “grown up and cool” I think I had mentioned that also on this thread.

I wonder if the people who disagree with Grisaille are from middle or higher class backgrounds? If so, maybe we should take a minute to know that Grisaille has first hand experience and knowledge about being poor in The Bronx.

One last thing, not sure I agree promescuity is higher in poor neighborhoods?? It might just be more visible.

[mod says] Take a deep breath guys, and cool off for a moment.

@JLeslie “Visible”... that may be true. I’m far from an expert on social matters; I can only speak from experience.

What I do know is that it’s quite common for an 11 year old girl to lose her virginity to a 13 year old boy where I grew up; it’s normal – and they weren’t considered a slut. (unless said girl slept with a friend’s boyfriend. then there’s hell to pay.)

But as for the first point, I’m going to disagree a bit there. For starters, I will agree with the fact that there is no way that a 9 year old can understand the psychological and social repercussions of having a temporary tattoo on their lower backs. What they do understand is that it gives her attention. It makes her a sexual object; she understands that, albeit in a very limited way. She knows that the older girls have the real ones and get the attention from the guys; her next best option is to have a fake one.

To her, in her mind, she incorrectly thinks that this is one of the only ways to caputre the eye of the opposite sex – she was not taught any better. As I said in that other thread, we NEED more positive role models in these urban areas.

It’s quite sad.

@augustlan Yes, very much. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have written that last paragraph; apologies all around.

@Grisaille You hit it on the head with your last post. Lurve to you.

@DominicX People seem to be afraid of shining light on the facts. Fact is that in poorer urban areas, underage sex and pregnancies run rampant. They are statistics that represent factual data.

Sarah Palin’s daughter is a mystery. lol

@Grisaille As always, friend, you made an excellent contribution. I hope that – no matter what – you never back down, from anything or anyone. You’re an awesome, intelligent person who has so much to offer.

@DrasticDreamer WOULD YOU QUIT MAKIN’ ME BLUSH IN FRONT OF ALL THESE PEOPLE

(thanks. a ton. <3)

I believe it was Grisaille that said: “You have to understand: if a 9 year old girl is around other girls, aged around 16–25, chances are THE TOPIC OF SEX WILL COME UP.”

I can say that I lived in a gated community, and at the age of 8 knew what, homosexuality was, HIV and AIDS were, and I had already watched a porn. This is because I had two older sisters, one of which was in high school. Sex came up. Simple as that. And that all happened years ago, nowadays 15 is the new 17, 9 is the new 13, for a lot of people. Times are changing and I’m not condoning anything, but you can’t underestimate what children know these days. (where ever they may live)

@Grisaille I find your explanations and justifications for those explanations very compelling. I am sorry that @tinyfaery and @casheroo seem to be unwilling to even start discussing any of the explanations you brought up. Perhaps they can not begin to respond because they don’t have any alternative supportable explanations to offer.

@everyone I wanted to say something about statistics. Statistics are used to describe a set of observations. Sometimes statistics are used to make generalizations about a larger group than those who were observed. One has to be very careful to do things that enhance the chances that generalizations based on the observed group accurately describe the entire population.

Now, most people are familiar with only one statistic: average. They justifiably get angry that when people make generalizations using averages, they don’t describe the exceptions to the average, and note that almost everyone is an exception to the average.

Many people are not aware that statistics also has a measurement for what average difference for all individuals from the average of a set of observations. This is called variance. The variance figure can tell you whether most people are fairly close to average, or if there are a lot of people that are pretty far from average. It is a way of describing the shape of the bell-curve that also describes all observations.

When describing statistics, most researchers use the phrase, “on average,” as a qualifier for any generalization they make. This should clue people into the idea that it’s just an average and doesn’t reflect the amount of variation from the average. Averages are stereotypes, and when we use stereotypes it can be easy to forget that just about all individuals vary from the average, or are different from the stereotype. The stereotype should be thought of as an imaginary center point that helps us understand an approximation of what the most common kind of behavior is. It’s an illusion to believe that the average accurately reflects the most common behavior, especially if the variance (which is almost never discussed) is quite large.

That’s the big caveat that must be understood when we make generalizations. Generalizations are useful in that they are a way to lump the most common types of behavior together, but we always have to remember that there is variance, and sometimes there is a very large amount of variance.

The question then becomes “how useful are averages?” @tinyfaery might say they aren’t useful at all. @Grisaille might say they are quite helpful. I think they can be useful as long as you treat everyone as an individual, and know that they very well could be quite different from the imaginary average. They will almost certainly be different, at least a little bit, from average. However, I believe that if we understand their limitations, averages can provide a lot of helpful perspective.

@IBERnineD

But there definitely is a difference between children with significantly older siblings and those without them. I have an older sister, but she’s only a year and half older than me. I didn’t know what sex was until I was 10 and we learned it in 5th grade sex ed at the end of the year. We didn’t talk about homosexuality in that, so I had to learn what that was from my parents the next year. I didn’t even know what anal sex was until I was in like 8th grade; that I learned from the other kids at school. My friends were all my age.

Obviously, it’s not just older siblings either, if a kid has friends who are older, stuff like that will come up as well. But that doesn’t mean that will happen to every or even most children. I was around some older kids, but only by a year or so. Not exactly a world of difference. My boyfriend is an only child. Even less opportunity to hear things from older kids.

@daloon

Any time I brought up statistics or observations, I never said they weren’t stereotypes or generalizations. I always clarified that they were and on some of them I indicated that they were based on my observations, which are even more faulty since they only come from one person. Still I am called a racist. And I agree it’s ridiculous to not even discuss what @Grisaille said, comments that I myself agreed with. She basically said what I was trying to say, except a lot better.

@DominicX “She” is, in fact, a “he”.

Damn sexually ambiguous screen name, always makin’ me look bad.

@daloon Much agreed there.

As you said, It’s imperative to realize that although generalizations are useful in preparing yourself for an impending argument or gathering information, the macro POV =/= micro level.

I tend to bring such situations as these down to a per case or small group basis, as it quite often helps us view the situation in a less objective eye.

It’s easy to say that the A-Bomb ended the war, you know?

@DominicX Of course everyone’s situation is different, but I think breaching the topic of sex with my older siblings was easier considering they were also girls. My oldest sister was in high school, but it was my sister that was only a year and half older than me that informed me what AIDS was and homosexuality. And a lot of times on average children these days are more in tune with sex. Of course I am making a generalization, which as we have seen before, can be risky, but I think a lot of people can agree with me about this one.

@Grisaille I knew your contribution would be thought provoking and interesting :). Your statement ”... I will agree with the fact that there is no way that a 9 year old can understand the psychological and social repercussions of having a temporary tattoo on their lower backs. What they do understand is that it gives her attention. It makes her a sexual object; she understands that, albeit in a very limited way. She knows that the older girls have the real ones and get the attention from the guys; her next best option is to have a fake one.

To her, in her mind, she incorrectly thinks that this is one of the only ways to caputre the eye of the opposite sex – she was not taught any better. As I said in that other thread, we NEED more positive role models in these urban areas.”

I agree with all of that.

I thought I might better define what I meant by “visible.” Not only that you might see tattoos, but the teenage pregnancy, rather teenage mothers comes to mind. It seems rather acceptable to have a baby when you are teen in some lower economic areas, this is not the case in the middle class. I would argue that those middle class girls are having sex (probably not at 11, but still in there young teens) but they are either better at birth control or having abortions. A close relative of mine was a big sister through Catholic Charities in Manhattan. Her “little sister” at the age of 13 was saying things that indicated she was going to lose her virginity. My relative did say she thought it better not to have sex, and then went on to ask if the girl knew about birth control. The girls reply was, “I wouldn’t use birth control, because that is a double sin, sex and birth control.” My response is—huh? So, they are not protecting themselves in more ways than one sexually…that makes me sad.

Years ago, newsstands weren’t required to cover up nudie mags that were on display. I now see them covered with a band of paper that conceals the model on the cover. I was 5 years old when I first saw a titty mag and I’ve never been the same since.

@JLeslie Man. I don’t even know what to say to that story.

On one hand, I’m slightly upset that the Church still teaches birth control to be a sin this day and age – especially in youth outreach programs like these.

On the other hand, no matter what I think of organized religion, God, or whatever, I have to say, it’s always nice to see these sorts of programs. Regardless of the teaching or intent, good can come from religion.

Just… gah. I don’t know, haha.

In response to the ‘experts’ who have made statements about socioeconomics and pregnancy-

Each year, almost 750,000 women aged 15–19 become pregnant. Overall, 75 pregnancies occur every year per 1,000 women aged 15–19; this rate has DECLINED 36% since its peak in 1990.[
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ATSRH.html

Despite assertions that teen and/or unwed birth is caused by poverty, it has been proven that these pregnancies CAUSE poverty as over 60% of these mothers become destitute. In fact the number of births to white teen mothers is almost twice tat of black teen mothers.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf

Your first link states “Black women have the highest teen pregnancy rate (134 per 1,000 women aged 15–19), followed by Hispanics (131 per 1,000) and non-Hispanic whites (48 per 1,000).[27]”

Now about your second link, I could not get it to open, but I am going to make an ssumption from your statement and a comment…I think the blacks account for about 13% of the population in America, so if 100 teen mothers are black, and 200 are white, the blacks have a much higher percentage of teen births than the whites. My question would be, since I can’t see the site, what social class did the women, the 60% start out in?” I am not saying I am right about my assumption that more people from lower socio-economic status are more likely to have babies when they are teens, but that they become “destitute” that to me is more extreme than being below the poverty line. Also, dividing by race does not necesarily really answer the question of economic level, whites can be poor and blacks can be rich.

@galileogirl and @JLeslie I am so bad at math.

The 1st link leads to the statement that rather than a teen birth rate increasing rapidly as has been implied here, it has DECLINED by 36% since 1990. USA Today printed a front page story last year that teen birth rates were on the rise’ In fact it was a statistically insignificant 3/10 of 1% in 1997 and fell again the next year.

The second link was to a 24 page report that belied statements made here about unwed teen mothers, poverty and race. Some information included in that report was that in that recent year over 208,000 white teens had babies while 116,000 black teens did as opposed to the idea that this was primarily a poor, black problem. There was an increase in working and middle class teen unwed mothers and a decrease unwed teen mothers in poor families, especially where birth control was available.

Also according to this report we are beginning to see that poverty is less likely to cause pregnancy than pregnancy causes poverty, 60% of all teens mothers of all socioeconomic levels are destitute within 2 years.

@galileogirl First, thanks for writing it out since I could not open the link. If pregnancy causes poverty…seems like a good reason not to get pregnant in your teens. I was not implying that the rate of pregnancy is going up or down, but maybe others had? If 208,000 white teens and 116,000 black teens are becoming teenage mothers, a whole bunch more blacks are getting pregnant when you loot at the PERCENTAGES, there are a whole bunch more whites than blacks in our country; so, it is more of a problem among blacks. I am glad to see your stats say that unwed teens in poor areas have birth rates go down where birth control is available…that is very encouraging.

@Grisaille I agree that the Catholic church does a lot of great things, and that progrmas like big sisters is positive overall.