Do you ever wish there was more of a political balance on this site?

I haven’t noticed what you seem to be seeing. I have seen many posts that seem to represent a Conservative point of view. Perhaps it depends at which post one is looking.

@pdworkin

I’ve had experiences with sites that had more conservative people and believe me, it was very different from this site.

Well, I’m pretty new to Fluther, so it may have just been happenstance that I have encountered the Conservative point of view.

I think that certain types of websites attract certain kinds of people. Most people on Fluther are liberal because this site actually promotes intelligent discussion of the issues and not a strict adherence to dogma.

At least that’s my take on it.

@drdoombot

Conservatism isn’t just about religion, though that certainly is a prominent factor. I’ve seen many conservatives discuss things intelligently, just as well as any liberal could. I’ve also seen them discuss things poorly and attempt to force religion on others. There are bad examples from both sides.

@drdoombot I think you and I probably share a lot of political views, but I do take exception to the contention that Conservatives are more dogmatic or less intelligent. I love a good debate with a richly informed person who does not share my point of view, That’s how one learns.

There is a political balance here. Perhaps it’s not what you want, but it is balanced. Frankly, I can’t see what would be gained by trying to more people who don’t lean so far to the left. I’m sure there are people who are far to the left of you. You might be in the middle somewhere.

No.

I am not liberal. I just think for myself.

And, I appreciate it when others on here express their views openly, whatever their position may be.

(Why would anyone take a “political leaning test?”)

I just wanted to clarify that I don’t think Conservatives aren’t intelligent, just that they aren’t into intelligent discussion. It just seems to me that it’s always about pushing a Conservative agenda, whether or not it is understood.

@PerryDolia

I think for myself as well, but most of what I think happens to line up in the middle of the political spectrum, just as some people’s views happen to line up on the left or on the right. I am not claiming that people are basing their views on a pre-determined spectrum, I am claiming that their views match up with certain areas on the spectrum.

For example, I have seen very few people on here defend American capitalism. That is generally considered a “conservative” stance to have, fiscally speaking that is.

@drdoombot

Believe me, plenty of conservatives think the same thing about pushing a liberal agenda.

That would take away the purpose of what Flutter is here for.

Our diversity toward topics tells plenty about who we are as a society.

@ChazMaz

Why would having more a balance take away the purpose? I’m not saying we need to round up conservatives, I am simply saying I wish there were more on this site. I can’t do anything about it. I’m just expressing what I think about it.

It seems that most websites I visit are 90% liberal, 10% conservative and nothing between or outside. Or maybe that’s just because those who do not belong to one of those two camps get “lumped” in with one or the other.

Balance as would Un-balance would be a statement as to how the populous operates.
So it is or is not.

Making it balanced would be only allowing or offering membership to individuals that are on the same page.

That option would not be so Fluffery.

@ubersiren

Maybe it’s because I got used to AIROW a long time ago, which was really about 50% liberal and 50% conservative. Some of the best debaters on that site had very conservative views. I thought all sites were going to be like that. I was surprised when I got to wis.dm and Fluther where it wasn’t like that.

Unfortenately,I feel much the same as you. I’m a moderate, and I feel sometimes if I say anything on the more consservative side I’ll be automatically stereotyped.

@DominicX
Who was a conservative and one of the best debaters on Airow? (Don’t say Nullo)

@allansmithee

Nullo, Falcon, (NOT ALEC). Those are the ones that come to mind.

@DominicX
Falcon was ok, Nullo on the other hand would totally disregard other people’s views and stick with some of most ludicrous beliefs on Airow.

“I feel sometimes if I say anything on the more conservative side Ill be automatically stereotyped.”

Yes I know what you mean. But that is what makes the discussions more interesting and stimulating.

I would be lying if I did not say I do like when I get approval from others. But, I do not take offense reading others prospective. It is interesting and sometimes frustrating.

Never, especially on here take anything personal. Let the truth (even about yourself) set you free.

Communication is exciting. Don’t let any hang-ups get in your way. :-)

i have found that if i expressed anything other than left leaning opinions i got jumped on (not by all, but by some, and i felt it was aggressive). In other words, instead of everyone stating their opinion, when i stated mine i got answers like “why would you think such and such a way?” and then there were reasons why my opinion was stupid. i did not find that very accepting. it makes me not want to express anything other than left leaning opinions. if i could post links to two i can think of i would, but i don’t know how.

Ok i’ll play devils advocate, you can be gay, black, hispanic, handicapped, female or born impoverished…so long as you fight tooth and nail to transcend these deficiencies to become a fully fledged member of the capitalist club.. Shit we’ll even exhibit you on the chat show circuit as a shining example of what one can be, if they only had the gumption to make the grade.

jca – So you get jumped on. That is metaphorically. So… Sticks and stones.

We all have to be free to be who we are for this site to work.
Who we are here reflects how our society operates. What we do not want is for anyone to hold back. Ok, be respectful if you can or if it is called for.

Since you/we are anonymous no one is going to burn a bag of poop at your door. No one is going to give you dirty looks at work.
If people are rude to you or you feel you do not want to express yourself. Shut that part of your brain off the best you can.

When I am on here sometimes I feel like a solider running across the battle field with my bayonet drawn. But ya know what. There is nothing that is going to kill me, so I stop running and just walk across. If a bomb goes off. So what. Not going to hurt me. Shit I will walk right through the fire. Certain subjects on here it is like walking through a burning building. No harm done unless I let it harm me.

Be free to say what you want, allow other to be free to respond.

@ChazMaz: i understand what you are saying, i just don’t always want to deal with negativity if i can avoid it. so it’s easier for me to scroll down past the question, or read the answers and try to avoid inserting my opinion, and then i don’t get yelled at, jumped on, hear nastiness from people (which, by the way, people are much more nasty on the internet than in real life – in real life i think we’re more respectful when engaged in conversation with others). i don’t need a soapbox to always put my opinion out there, sometimes it’s easier to keep it to myself.

the two questions i am thinking of were 1. someone asked about how do you feel about stores putting signs in other languages and i said i didn’t agree with it. I got responses to that like “why would you think that, that’s stupid, so you think blah blah blah” and 2. i also remember questions being asked about how you feel about people having to take drug tests for public assistance and i said i agree with it because i don’t want my taxes going to pay for people’s drug habits (i elaborated more than that) and again, it was why would you think that, blah blah blah. so it’s easier to not answer when i don’t think fluther will like my answer. if that lessens what fluther is trying to be, than so be it.

Yes, peoples neurosis are exposed easier on the internet.

I’m a conservative-leaning moderate. Three cheers for the “right” side of Fluther!

Living in a town which is pretty politically conservative, I am quite OFFENDED at many of stereotypes and labels that are being put on conservatives in this question. I really thought the political left is supposed to be more accepting of people of different cultures/races/IDEAS than themselves but I guess that’s just another stereotype.

drdoombot writes: “Most people on Fluther are liberal because this site actually promotes intelligent discussion of the issues and not a strict adherence to dogma” My 9th grade Geography teacher, who loved intelligently discussing issues in class also was a republican and disliked Obama a lot.

pdworkin notes “Conservatives are more dogmatic or less intelligent” My dad, who went to Stanford and is a very intelligent doctor, is a political conservative (and he’s an anti-materialist so you can’t says his political views are because of his income).

hug_of_war even says “I feel sometimes if I say anything on the more conservative side I’ll be automatically stereotyped” Exactly what I’m trying to say.

@jca also brings up a good point (you can just read his post, I won’t retype the whole thing)

It’s time we stopped f*cking around. Let’s have some intelligent discussion and quit the labeling/stereotypes in this thread!

People have the right to their own political beleifs, and even if they associate themselves with a party/side, it doesn’t mean they agree with absolutely everything that group stands for. Be mindful and respectful of that.

You missed an important part of what I said, that reverses the meaning: I said ”I do take exception to the contention that Conservatives are more dogmatic or less intelligent.”

ya but most of the time the mods either delete the post or suspend a user

@pdworkin My apologies. Sorry about that.

I feel it attracts liberal thinking, and anyone that doesn’t agree with their dogma is castigated, so those not like minded, want to leave, or stick around briefly just to to agitate. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a significant percentage prefer a socialistic society, rather then a democratic one, so it will always be hard to have fair and balanced.
I prefer independent thought, and no longer am I steadfast with demican or republicrat principals.

@DominicX Yes. (and no). I am about as far left as you can go… and I think you are right. Most here are left. I would like more points of view because that is more realistic, and makes for a much better debate, rather than just preaching to the choir. (or everyone arguing with the one annoying homophobe, fundamentalist)

but no because things get ugly.

Overall though, yes. It would be a good thing if there was more political balance on this site.

Yes, the more diverse the views, the more opportunities to learn. Too bad it can sometimes degenerate into shouting matches, but I guess that’s what the mods are for. I have seen some religious ugliness on Fluther, though. That I find to be truly regretful. Religion doesn’t seem to lend itself well to relaxed debate.

I always thought the biggest downfall of debating on Fluther is that you can easily get ganged up on and be overwhelmed with responses.

And for that reason, I do agree with you, @DominicX .

I’m sorry if I offended any conservatives with my comments; it’s very difficult to form an honest, even opinion when the most visible examples of the group are people like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Dubya, Cheney and the rest.

I’m sure there are sane, intelligent Republicans out there. I wish they would speak up and kick all the quacks out of their party!

I think political and religious questions should be moderated. I dont care about people’s politics but the Palin, Coulter, Limbaugh etc… Derangement syndrom often on display is disgusting, especially from people who otherwise might even be decent human beings. Ironically, Fluther’s otherwise so high standards of decency don’t apply to the most slanderous and vicious questions and comments.

Fortunately Fluther still has a very long way to go before being comparable to Wis.dm but it would be nice if people who don’t see eye to eye with the majority weren’t dragged in the mud by the fringe.

I’m a moderate liberal and I like the balance on Fluther. I would really miss the nice conservatives.

@Jack_Haas I agree with most of your comments. (except I was never on Wis.dm so I can’t compare the two sites.)

@drdoombot Glenn Beck is conservative but he is not Republican.

“I think political and religious questions should be moderated.”

I don’t. The debates we have, you have to take into consideration the good and bad of it.

If you want to say you do not believe in God. Great, make your point.
If you want to say if you believe in God you are stupid. That is where the line has to be drawn.

Even debating has to be moderated, no matter what the subject. Just to keep us civil. But everyone’s opinion and perspective should be heard and respected. No matter how it might get under your skin.
It is part of the reflection of our society and you need to look at it to see what it is ALL about.

@ChazMaz Can you tell me how these two statements contribute positively to a debate/discussion?

“I want to punch Ann Coulter in the face.”

“Sarah Palin is a stupid cunt.”

I think these are some examples of what @Jack_Haas was referring to (correct me if I’m wrong Jack) and what I agree with. Replace Ann and Sarah with users from fluther and the comments would have been removed. I’d almost bet if you replaced the name with Michelle Obama the comment would have been removed.

They don’t. As I explained.

If you want to say I do not like Ann Coulter, or Sarah Palin is not on her game.
Those examples are acceptable.

But, I will say this. It does come down to how the moderator sees it. Sad to say, this site left to its own would fall apart. That absolute power would cause too many out of control rants and incoherent babble. Turning people off from coming here.

Even saying “I want to punch Ann Coulter in the face.” Is showing who a person is and this person is a part of our society and that is one reason as to why our society operates as it does. Even derogatory statements give insight to that person and to the people that shape the environment around us. That giving us insight to why a person thinks the was they do.

None of the question on here as specific as they might appear are specific. They are a a sprocket in the time peace. A part of the total equation.

A good moderator should see weather what a person says is an act of disrespect or (as gruff as it might sound) part of the answer. Words sometimes need emotion behind them to send the message home.

though i won’t deny that there seem to be far more liberals here than conservatives, i think that the conservative side does tend to show itself very well when the thread calls for it. maybe the numbers aren’t equal, but i think that there is a fair amount of representation on both sides.

@jonsblond Your examples are spot on. In fact, the question that prompted the second comment was in itself a deliberate, open invitation to heap trash on conservative personalities and indirectly on those who don’t rabidly hate them, as if independent and fair-minded members were lesser human beings. Is it what Fluther stands for?

@ChazMaz There are obviously instances when discussions aren’t possible. If I raise a point using facts brought up by Ann Coulter, you’re free to raise counterpoints and bring relevant facts up. That’s a discussion. When all you can do is launch into an irrational tirade against Ann Coulter and show me how much you hate her, call her a tranny and whatnot, what does it bring to the discussion? Why would I want to know these things about you? It only shows there can’t be a discussion because you’re behaving irrationally. Unfortunately it’s considered not just acceptable but even normal behavior. Again, is that what Fluther stands for?

Everything’s going fine until someone mentions politics or religion. I believe mods should force everyone to debate in a civil way, incite attacks on ideas and not on people.

“call her a tranny and whatnot,” ?

What does it bring to the discussion? lol

:-)

Just in case, there is any confusion, when referring to the “person”, I was referring to, in my previous post, not to Ann’s character but to the person making the comment about her character.

Yes, but really republicans and democrats may conduct themselves with a degree of civility, much like british parliament, plod through legislation, the odd jeer here and there amidst the flatulence and the snoring, all very genteel and proper, whilst their generals blast human beings off the map on a daily basis, or point their missiles at any country that dares, has the audacity, to formulate a system of governance that America cannot exploit for commercial gain. So the debate is finished before it began, i don’t want to debate whether tax should increase/decrease a cent or interest rates, i simply want to know why America has waged war is waging war on multiple and completely unconnected sovereign states. America is waging aggressive war virtually continuously. Does that not strike anyone as noteworthy? Possibly even savage, despotic and shamefull? or is it really that unremarkable? As long as we can while away a few hours idley pontificating like grownups. Who cares.

I used to think I was Republican, then just conservative. Now I am just a human. Political labels were only invented to divide and conquer us all. Stop acting as if Right V. Left is the same as Good V. Evil. Maybe everyone should check out what mamal is saying. If we are fighting with each other then we certainly won’t have a problem waging wars all over the world.

War is very tragic, but under our current system of government finance, and it very profitable as well. We borrow every single dollar the government uses. We are broke, in debt in fact. We talk about a national debt but does anyone question what it is and to whom we owe it?

Our government has a U.S. Mint. Do not be fooled into thinking that they are the ones that create the money. Before any coins are minted at the U.S. Mint, we borrow money from the Federal Reserve. They, as it were, are a private for-profit central bank connected with the World Bank and The International Monetary Fund. Every single country, under a system of credit controlled by any of these institutions, is in debt.

Here’s the reason. We borrow the money from the Federal Reserve. As with just about every loan, there is interest attached. That is an easy enough concept to follow. Except that under the U.S. constitution, our Congress is supposed to issue the currency. Congress did, at various times in U.S. history, issue U.S. Treasury notes as opposed to the last 80 years of the Federal Reserve Note as stated on each bill. The money Congress creates is the same type of money that the Federal Reserve would produce, and that is called fiat money. That simply means that it is backed by the faith of the government and not something tangible. One difference between the two is that there is no interest on government issued money. If they distribute only enough to sustain commerce we don’t need to worry about inflation, booms or busts.

Borrowing from the Federal Reserve does indeed cause our nation to incur a quite unnecessary debt. While the Federal Reserve makes the same claims in providing stability that our constitution directs our Congress to provide they still ride on the backs of all citizens with the viscous usury.

Fiat money can be dangerous because there is no ceiling for the amount of money that can be created. Discipline is the only thing that can keep a fiat money system in check. The Federal Reserve knows that they can print unlimited (paper) wealth. The sinister effect, if it hasn’t already become even slightly apparent, is that the system makes paying off the debt impossible if we stick with them.

The first few years were crucial after the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. In order for them to profit they needed the country to start mounting a debt. Until that point, when the country did have to borrow money, which was a rare occassion, we paid it back soon. Generations past understood the consequences of having a debtor master, the founders learned it well from the Bank Of England. We entered in to WWI only seven months after they were established. We had to borrow all the money the country uses from them.

The debt was not designed to be paid off. They create a certain amount of money and expect more than they printed. It was designed to be paid on constantly, not paid off. Along side the Federal Reserve Act was the Income Tax law. That tax guaranteed the Federal Reserve payment. There had been no need to tax the labor of the people prior to 1913. For 137 years prior the government got along just fine.

We are seeing bailouts to big industry. Any and all spending programs, including wars will be funded by them. Why not, what bank wouldn’t want to rack up interest payment? The companies that are getting bailed out are owned by those that invest at the Federal Reserve.

The Government is bankrupt, FDR seized all of America’s gold and threw it in Fort Know. Later the government signed over the gold to the Federal Reserve as collateral on the debt we owe them. The big joke about the government is that they issue bonds, but they don’t produce their own currency.

Congress doesn’t need to declare war anymore for blood to be shed, it just needs to be paid for.

The balance is just fine on this site. I think the people here speak common sense more than anything else and they are willing to discuss their differences in a civilized way… for the most part.

We need more people with progressive views. Too many dittoheads here.