What is the single most convincing point that prevents you from believing in God?

Logic.

God wouldn’t allow Billy Mays to die

What makes our “current” god so special that it’s real when all the previous god(s) are just myths? (Greeks, Egyptians, Etc.).

The biggest point for me against believing in god that there isnt a SINGLE reason TO believe.

Why is this the one thing in the world that we have to disprove. It should be the other way. Prove to me there IS a god and I’ll believe.

Thousands of potential god’s. All considered true once upon a time. All apparently Human inventions. There is nothing that sets the abrahamic god apart from the rest.

But “there is no scientific evidence” is the answer.

Physical evidence and reasoned logic cannot function without it. An Atheist would have to use supernatural, intangible evidence as their proof. That’s counter-intuitive, and goes against the foundation of, you know, knowledge and logic. That’s akin to asking you:

What is the single most convincing point that prevents you from not believing in a god?

Oh, and you can’t use supernatural, unexplainable, unobservable events as an explanation. That’s been played out.

I’m copying @Grisaille, but “there is no scientific evidence” is the answer.

I am not against the concept or the idea of God, and I’m not certain that he doesn’t exist. I don’t believe in a god because there is a lack of evidence and because the universe is explainable without the existence of a god.

My guess is, if you are always seeking and embracing beliefs that refute the existence of a higher power- that should be convincing enough.

God supposedly gave everybody “free will” but if we don’t follow His Will, we will rot in hell for all eternity. That is too disgusting to contemplate.

There are many more, such as praying for help to win a football game, while 20,000 people starve to death every single day, and babies being born into pain, agony, and death; and accepting God’s Will will give you comfort from your pain, yet how is an infant supposed to do that?

I can ever prove it, thus I am uninterested in delving into something that I am 100% certain I can not know. I focus my energy on that which I can understand which will make me more productive as a citizen of the world. I believe that God, if He exists, will appreciate my honesty and will factor that in to His apparent decision to cast me into Hell or Heaven as apparently many believe He has a choice. I wish Him luck, and plead for His mercy, thus like the stock market I am covered and hedged both ways. If it is She or It, I also ask that She or It give me a break, I am honestly not interested in She, He or It. But that does not make me a bad person in my logical world, as God would, I postulate, appreciate his creations in using logic in an honest way.

How’s this: after coming close to death several times, I’ve never seen an angel, the face of “God” or heard ethereal voices. After being in dire misery several times and praying for something, I heard not a peep, was delivered by nothing but my own pain and stubbornness. In the exhalts of Joy and lucidity, still no “God/s”. I have been fascinated by religions of the world for study, for teachings, for the focus, strength and good they bring others but I have always felt an outsider so I leave it alone.

also there is the thing of incompatible attributes.
Omiscience. He knows everything, including each of our steps, decisions, and where we will eventually end up. Since he knows this, our destiny necessarily has to be set in stone already.
Which means he ultimately can not decide who goes to hell and who goes to heaven, he is unable to deviate from the predetermined decision.
Which means he can not be omnipotent.

@uberbatman Is infinity logical? Do you believe in it?

@ragingloli I didn’t say anything about the abrahamic God

@Ivan I can explain an apple as an object set apart, completely ignoring its origin.. that seed.. but it just wouldn’t be the whole story.

@YARNLADY We’ve been over that subject too many times to delve into again.. suffice it to say that we disagree on the definition of “free will”

@dannyc I think it’s dangerous to be so bold as to be 100% on anything.

@hungryhungryhortence Do you pray only when in pain?

@ragingloli Again, this is a misunderstanding about free will which we’ve covered many times over.

@NaturalMineralWater
You spelt it with a capital G. That normally is indicative of the abrahamic, specifically christian, deity.

@NaturalMineralWater: oh no, I have prayed in absolute joy and thankfulness too.

@NaturalMineralWater

huh?

@NaturalMineralWater
well what is your definition of “free will”?

I’d like someone to give me a single convincing point to believe in God. People who believe always say things like, “Look at the oceans, the mountains, the birds, the beautiful sunset and tell me there is no god. Isn’t all that proof enough?”
And I say if you follow that line of thought just look at those spectacular rainbows after it rains. Isn’t that proof positive that God is gay?

Personally, I just don’t like the fact that relying on an external power so much (to the point of using it as a justification for many things that would otherwise be considered immoral). I do like the idea that SOMEONE out there created the universe, but well… God himself, I think you know the answer to that judging by your question.

(My mistake, I didn’t read the question fully. Ignore what I said below!)

1. There’s no consistent and scientific (in this case, peer-reviewed by experts) proof besides what’s in the Bible that he’s the one who’s in charge and the Creator.

2. As an extension of that, the Bible has many historical inaccuracies (due to copying errors, translation, what have you) and so it’s hard to use it as conclusive proof that “This thing that happened in one part of the Bible proves everything else happened”.

Well I was hoping to provoke some thought on the concept of God but it’s clear that it’s going to be more of the usual.. lol.. very well then.

@NaturalMineralWater

Who gave you the idea that people were against the concept of God?

@NaturalMineralWater
don’t blame us.
it is not our fault that you capitalised the word, and by thus mislead everyone in this thread.
If you want to talk about gods in general, then write it in lowercase.

Because I see no reason for blind faith. Why not just put it all out in the open and let people love you or not love you, follow you or not follow you, obey you or not obey you?

Close relationships between humans are based on choices regarding people they know and have factual information on. (The exception being young children who are not yet aware of all choices or able to fend for themselves.) Shouldn’t the closest relationship in your life, the relationship with your higher power, be even more transparent?

Ok, in case that sounds too Christian-based, I still feel like there is no reason for all of the cards not to be on the table. Why the mystery?

I don’t see what difference it makes whether or not there is a God.

Here is an old dilemma that shows that the idea of God is meaningless. Does God do things because they are right or are they right because they are done by God?

In the first case, God is compelled to act the way He does and is not free. We could replace the idea of God with a set of moral rules that explain the way things happen in the same way as the laws of physics.

In the second case, God acts arbitrarily, without moral guidance.

In either case, what do we gain by believing in God?

“Look out, brother. Who you jiving with that cosmic debris?” Frank Zappa

The fact that it requires “believing” is, in itself, the reason. Why is believing required?

When you come right down to it, nearly everything everyone says about God, they read in a book.

Could it be that God is not really there and the only way he exists is in fable, lore and when you “believe?”

well…logic really…I’ve never met him, and it’s hard to believe in something I can’t feel or see…

Also, I really find it hard to believe he would let children die of horrible diseases like cancer…when I see children like that, I just feel so terrible…I almost want to tear up a bit from it, because they are going to miss out on what life has to offer, and they have no idea at all. And the short life they are living is just miserable, and are going through treatments to help them live longer…it’s just so sad.

How can a god exist when children are suffering like that? Born with cancers and ailments like that. No one should have to go through that, yet alone children, they’re so innocent.

Also, there are so many religions out there, who’s to say which religion is right? They could all be wrong for that matter.

God wouldn’t have let the hundreds of years of murder, mayhem, and genocide be committed in his name. Also, he would have never let Rush Limbaugh’s parents ever conceive a child.

“But you see, it is very difficult, for always there is a dream dreaming us” (The Heart of the Hunter, p. 139.)

A complete lack of empirical evidence and an untestable hypothesis.

Ironic anthropomorphism.

The law of parsimony says that the simplest hypothesis is generally the correct hypothesis, and in my estimation quantum mechanics and physics will prove eventually to explain the mysteries of the universe without recourse to the supernatural.

I trust empirical evidence. The evidence that the current state of life on Earth is due to essentially Darwinian processes is vast and irrefutable.

If we don’t need “God” to explain the state of affairs around us, then He probably does not exist.

I believe that our thought processes are chemical and neuroelectrical, and at death all organisms cease, and that there is no evidence of dualism or the existence of the so-called soul. It’s a pleasant fantasy, but it provides me no comfort.

It always comes down to the same age old question, why are we here and how? Science may be explain that there are unexplainable forces as we go into quantum theory. What makes things vibrate? Why do they vibrate?

The question maybe is, what is the definition of God. I don’t think of him as some white bearded dude looking down saying, Gary is going to get in a car accident today. Rather, it is omnipresent phenomenal energy-again and always, what created the energy and where did it come from. To me that is God presence by my definition

I am in awe that there are so many people with no belief in any god. It’s just amazing to me.

@filmfann The question wasn’t whether anyone believed in any god, it was if we believe in God, as in the one. I have a lot of spirituality, I just don’t direct it toward a mythical being of someone else’s construction. I choose to believe what I have observed and figured out myself.

@InspecterJones The question seems to address atheists.

@filmfann Well, I’m not an atheist, but sure am a skeptic, and I imagine there are more of those. People have a natural tendency to believe in something. For most rational minds its just hard to choose to believe something without proof of any sort.

So, you are inferring a person is irrational if they choose to believe something that science can’t quantify or explain.. You should check out some of Einstein quips and inferences to an unrecognized power.

For people who believe, we look around and are amazed at all the miracles we see.

@filmfann Some people are amazed that the Television can show them in real-time what’s happening a thousand miles away. That doesn’t make it supernatural. Amazement != impossible without god.

@filmfann and how do those miracles point to your God almighty?

There are many deities that are still believed in and many more that aren’t.

There is also the all ever powerful random chance and luck.

@filmfann possible response #2
“For people who don’t believe, we look around and see something amazing, and then figure out how it works, rather than assuming it to be unknowable.”

@Garebo

Einstein is not the pope of science.

The concept of god should not be limited to one sex. If god was a sex, it would obviously be a she.

@tinyfaery- No way that God is female. No woman could fuck things up so badly. That takes a man’s touch.

No, be he was way in tune with Quantum Theory along with other great scientists, he is just one that I recall that referred to a higher power-God, I call it You can call it what you want, but there is no denying there is a phenomenal, and for the most part unexplainable force (energy) amongst us.

Sure there is denying there is a phenomenal, and for the most part unexplainable force (energy) amongst us. I deny it.

Surprises me, so we agree to disagree-its futile like it often is. If anything personal belief systems, are God.

religious conversations of this nature are often like jacking off without a prostate…

all that running when there isn’t even a finish line.

Note: I haven’t read anybody else’s answers. I’m on vacation and just checking in quickly.

I don’t necessarily not believe in God. But I kind of hope He doesn’t exist, because if He does, He very clearly hates me, and I can’t deal with that.

I am not opposed to the idea of a god. I think it would take a lot of pressure off my shoulders if I knew there was someone looking out for me. That said, I don’t see any reason to believe there is one. We call all past belief in gods ‘mythology’. I’m pretty darn sure that the people of the future will add our current beliefs to the list.

As a Native American I was taught there is a god. As a scientist I have not seen this. As a human being, I pray to god he lets me into heaven.

@ASKER : I’m mystified by how anyone can “believe” that there is no God. If a person is not willing to take it on faith that God exists, it seems inconsistent to me that the same person would take it on faith that no traditional monotheistic Creator God exists.

i hope that you won’t mind my participating in the discussion without being one of the people of whom you are asking the quetion.

Logic.

For me, it is not “what is it about the idea of God that makes you so certain that He doesn’t exist?”, it is that there is nothing that indicates to me that there is any type of supreme being. So as much as you don’t want to hear the “no evidence” answer, that is the answer for us logical people.

For me no scientific evidence isn’t the answer because just because something isn’t proven doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It does seem ridiculous to me that there would be a God who needs to be worshipped every Sunday, who would punish good people. It just goes against logic to believe in God.

Seriously, I don’t understand how someone can be so afraid to say “I don’t know” as if it is a sign of ignorance. We are all ignorant about something, and attributing everything we don’t understand to a god puts us in the same boat as our ancestors that attributed all their unknowns to gods. Zeus and his lightning and Cernunnos, the god of the forest animals, and all the rest of the ancient gods were used to describe things man could not figure out otherwise.

Just because we can’t figure out a natural explanation for something, that doesn’t mean we have to choose a supernatural reason.

No one worships the Four Gods of the Winds, nor does anyone believe that Cernunnos is real, or that any of the approximate 2,500 known gods of history (besides the Middle Eastern Desert gods of Bronze Age goat herders) are real, and someday, either new gods will be created to replace those, or humans will discard all gods forever.

I created Evelynism just in case Christianity loses its appeal. =)

Evelynism you say? Hmm, am I forbidden to do drugs and masturbate?

@LexWordsmith All the atheists I know have no belief in god(s) but no insistence that it would be impossible for god(s) to exist

Actually, logic dictates there must indeed be a god.

@rocko How so?

To believe this universe…all the plants and animals and beauty and humans came from an accident goes beyond the realm of “Cannot be proven ergo must not exist.”
Most atheists are simply parroting others and not thinking for themselves.

now that is what i would call a vicious lie

@rocko- Wait a minute. I don’t believe in God. I’ve come to that belief on my own. So tell me again how I am parroting others and not thinking for myself. I find that many religious just accept their faith without freethinking, therefore parroting others. Your statement seems backwards to me.

what if parroting atheists were parroting those who said they came upon their own conclusion?!

that’s like being called a CIA agent and denying it.

you would if you actually were CIA, and you would if you weren’t ;)

@teh_kvlt_liberal Evelynism accepts all, and the main tenet is: Life is about choices, your results may vary

Evelyn isn’t responsible for anything you do or don’t do. She simply exists to get a chuckle out of watching humans be human. You can no more kill someone in the name of Evelyn than you can kill someone in the name of Snoopy Peanuts reference

@rocko, that isn’t the stupidest thing I’ve read today, but… no wait, it IS the stupidest thing I’ve read today.

Theists parrot each other, simply because they find reading the bible too tedious. Most atheists know more about the bible than its followers, and @Astro Chuck has it right.

The only thing most atheists have in common is a lack in a belief in a deity. Organizing atheists is like herding cats.

I accept the concept of gods/God/the Tetragrammaton when it’s convenient.

Belief defines reality, my friends.

Liber Chaos.

Well, if you are looking for conceptually, then here is my offer to you. A moment of levity, I beg from you, as I share a page my files…

Being a devout agnostic, I can say that I arrived at this inflammatory label for myself, by simply aligning God and humanity together. So, humanity created this club, religion, to gather within, and an idea named God became the headline attraction. The keynote. Followers followed and power was generated, and a perfect business model was born. So, my questions is, who started the God Club, and do they offer any value added incentives for joining after not believing for over 40 years? My hunch is that God has lasted so long, based on the impact a certain astronaut named Jesus made when visiting humanity many years ago. This is crazy, right? But not far from being very plausible, so, that is what prevents me from believing in God.

The fact that if there were a deity, its existence would be entirely insignificant in terms of morality. Morality is one of the greatest claims of religion, but in order to assess whether or not a deity is moral there must be another standard by which to measure what is moral. This other standard (to my logic, this standard would be population benefit, as morality has no real point if it is not for improving people’s lives) would then be superior to the dictates of the deity/religion in question.

Although I am not explicitly against the concept of a deity existing I do feel that the thought is rather condescending. There are so very many people fight and have fought for freedom, independance and the limitation of governmental powers, some have even died for these ideals and yet many of these same people appear content in the knowledge that an omnipotent superior being is constantly and consistently looking after them.
As I stated initially, I am not explicitly against the concept of a deity, if a deity does exist and has played some role in my life then i’m rather grateful (being that my life is generally quite pleasant) but with some considerable hesitance as should that be the situation I am deeply curious as to how my life would have developed without said deities intervention and why it chose to intervene originally without my requesting such. Afterall, who’s to claim whether my life would have been better or worse without this entities involvement?
I hope I do not cause any offence with this post. It’s merely some thoughts of mine regarding the subject.

‘If there were no God, it would have been necessary to invent him.’ – François-Marie Voltaire

“Monsieur, (a+bn)/n=x, donc Dieu existe: repondez!” I had thought that this was something that F-M Arouet had said to some Russian courtier at St. Petersburg, but the following site states that Euler said it to Diderot: http://www.everything2.org/title/Monsieur%252C+%2528a%252Bbn%2529%252Fn%253Dx%252C+donc+Dieu+existe%253A+repondez%2521

@Nially_Bob…there so very many people who fight…

at the moment, something that happened a few years ago. up until that I considered myself officially-unofficially an agnostic. after, unofficially-officially an atheist. as for the event, I will only say it devastated me. (not that I have not had plenty of other devastating events.)