What are your thoughts on whipping horses in order to train them?

i kind of like it

I don’t know much about horses but animals can be trained effectively without abusing them.

@jaketheripper What?

@The_Compassionate_Heretic No no no, there is definitely a dividing line between whipping and abuse. Whipping horses is an effective way to discipline…er…train them.

@Ivan Would you whip your child in order to discipline/train them?

If the horse gets a kick out of it, sure.
PS where do you live where there’s horses everywhere?

So, all these years i could’ve been training my gitrlfriend to do tricks?

If a horse get’s annoyed by it, would he not kick the whipper?

I agree with @The_Compassionate_Heretic. And that goes for any animal. I don’t go to circuses or zoos for that very reason

I think it’s despicable!

@rebbel The guy had the horse tyed up with a rope. So it (horse) couldn’t reach him.

I don’t agree that animals should be abused…Horses are reallly smart. Isn’t that illegal?

@cyndihugs I wish it was illegal.

@Tink1113 Sure, it builds character.

@Ivan I’d hate to be your child.

@Tink1113 Sorry, but Horse ≠ Child. I’m not an animal hater, but saying “Would you whip your child…” is reaching a little, in my opinion.

I agree with Ivan here, that there is a difference between using a whip to train and a whip to abuse. Many trainers will just give the horse small jabs with the butt end of the whip to train the horse left/right/etc. to go along with voice commands. Now if you saw this person “training” the horse by completely going off on it with the whip, that’s different, but you can certainly successfully train horses by using a whip without abusing it. I think you may be jumping to conclusions here.

I personally believe spurs are far worse than whips for training and handling horses.

Jesus Christ, are you people actually incapable of recognizing sarcasm without someone directly pointing it out to you?

@Tink1113 If it was a long (flexible) rope, it (horse) could chase him, i believe.

@dverhey I was speaking hypothetically.
Now spurs, that’s another story.

I saw the guy actually abusing the horse while “training” him. The horse couldn’t even slow down when the guy was already whipping him.

@Ivan The ~ could’ve helped.

@rebbel The rope was tyed to a pole.

Sounds cruel! I don’t think all horse trainers use whips do they?

@Tink1113 Yeah, that’s what I meant by “directly pointing it out to you”.

Actually, @rebbel brings up a good point that even if the horse could not kick or injure the whipper, the horse would likely show some discomfort with the whip. So I can understand if the horse was actually showing pain, etc.

See, I think you just saw one incident and wrote it off as the majority of horse trainer’s methods. Correct me if I’m wrong, though. I would say that in reality, 75% or more of trainers don’t actually harm the horse when using a whip to train.

75% is just an estimate. I’m not really sure.

It sounds as if the man was lunging the horse which is a training method used to work on a specific gait or even exercise.

During the training process the whip is used to keep the horse out at the end of the line. Usually it is snapped and the crack has the desired effect or if that doesn’t work a flick from the whip will work.

I am sure some of you will consider it abuse so go ahead now and tell how it will ruin the psyche of the horse for the rest of its life!! It will probably become a horsicidal maniac or something terrible!

I have always found horse training sadistic. I think horses are beautiful, intelligent, thouhtful animals, and I find it hideous that horses have to be “broken”, and that they have to be whipped to be trained. I don’t get it. How are these people horse lovers?

@dverhey I was just talking about that man that I saw, I’m not saying that every horse trainer/owner does that.

I think it must hurt and when I see that happen I feel bad for the horse but maybe at some times the horse could get used to the whipping. =o
I don’t think they should do that.They should know horses are smart.

Don’t do it. A whip can be used if it is just the noise and touching them with it but don’t whip the horse.

@rooeytoo what’s wrong with just letting the horse walk or run however it wants to? Why make it learn a different way? Hitting an animal with a whip is abuse. Even using the sound of the whip to intimidate the horse is a form of abuse. It scares them.

@elijah – well it is like saying why teach a child or a dog or anyone, why not just let them go through their entire lives doing whatever they want????? Then when the horse runs wild and tramples some human because it is not trained, people will say what a bad owner the poor creature had.

I am about the softest animal loving person you could ever meet. I have spent a large portion of my adult life (not to mention my income) rescuing animals. But I do believe in training and using whatever method is the most productive, because an untrained, undisciplined creature ends up being socially unacceptable and eventually KILLED. I also believe as do most professional trainers, that there is no one way that works for all so to immediately dismiss a method without knowing the history of the animal and the skill of the trainer is irresponsible and well ignorant.

Use the almighty google and see what it says about lunging horses and the use of the whip as a training tool. Or better yet, go out and take a green colt and give it a go, then tell me what you think.

There’s a fine line between whipping a horse to gain its attention and abusing it. I wouldn’t expect some folks to understand it. Usually the whip is not used harshly, and just because it looks like it hurt, doesn’t mean that it does. Too often, people anthropomorphize the treatment animals get and assume if it would hurt a person, then it would hurt an animal. There is a differnece in pain threshholds between a 3500 lb animal and a 125 slip of a girl.

I love animals as much as anyone, and do not like to see them abused, but be sure you know what you are talking about before you go and accuse someone of abuse. False accusations, even those based on ignorance, can be very damaging to someone’s livelihood.

@rooeytoo Whatever way you want to justify it. I never said animals shouldn’t be trained, and comparing them to children is rediculous. Of course if I beat my child, or even threatened beating my child, he would learn faster. I wouldn’t be proud of myself for it. My family has owned horses, so don’t assume I am ignorant or that I need the almighty google. I don’t care if a thousand people think it’s ok. I don’t.

So @elijah and @rooeytoo, you two can agree to disagree. I have learned that unless you have real time experience with actual animal training techniques, and have worked with animals on a regular basis, assuming that using a whip is abuse is erroneous. You can’t assume that a workable training technique is abuse, unless you have incontrovertible proof. Now if the guy was beating the horse between the ears with a 2×4, that would qualify as abuse.

Too many people compare animals to children, leading them towards a false sense of what an animal feels. People complain that circuses are bad, but rodeos are MUCH worse.

@elijah – this is what you said ,“what’s wrong with just letting the horse walk or run however it wants to? Why make it learn a different way? ” What exactly does that mean if not don’t train them? And I think all creatures need to be trained and that includes humans. Who the hell said anything about beating???

I pointed out that the whip is to keep the horse out, it is rarely used on the horse.

Did you ever train a horse or an aggressive dog who outweighs you? And did you google lunge? If you had practical experience, your opinion might be different.

Whip horses as part of a training routine. Thats how 99% of horse trainers train them. Don’t wail on them because your pissed though or sadistic.

@evelyns_pet_zebra I respectfully say, no. How do you know how a sentient being experiences and perceives the world? How do you know it doesn’t hurt, that it doesn’t cause pain and fear? It’s just a bad to anthropomorphize as it is to assume that you know what another living creature experiences, especially when the idea of taming is invloved.

@rooeytoo I’m not going to argue back and forth, as we both know we won’t agree on this subject. No biggie. C’est la vie.

@tinyfairy you are entitled to your opinion. I have spent the majority of my life living in a rural landscape, I understand animals better than most folks, I know things about agriculture and animal husbandry from DIRECT experience that most people only read about in books or watch in movies with an agenda. I have spent most of my life being an amateur naturalist, and I do know things about animals that you assume no one could. But nothing I say could convince you, so I will simply leave it at that.

I know more about animals than you assume I do, and I am not going to argue with you. Either you know about animals from first hand experience, or you simply assume that you do. I am of the former, and I am going to assume, respectfully of course, that you are of the latter.

Do the same people that have problems with whipping horses have problems with spanking children?

Spanking is way different than whipping.

I cannot possibly roll my eyes enough at this question.

Why stop at the whipping? Why not say something about the lifelong emotional abuse a horse gets by being ridden his whole life.. unable to roam free… ?

The guy was training the horse.. a practice that has gone on for.. at least a couple of minutes now.

@Tink1113 – absolutely, but a lot of folks don’t seem capable of making that differentiation.

@elijah – I don’t know what I could argue about with you, you keep contradicting yourself????

Training, disciplining and beating or abusing are all entirely different behaviors, the 2nd two have absolutely nothing to do with the first two.

@rooeytoo I was thinking the same thing, it sounds like lunging.

I lunge my horse and a crop (whip) is used but if it touches the horse then it is done very lightly and certainly doesn’t hurt (usually it doesn’t need to touch the horse though). If your training the horse this way properly then the crop does not harm the horse in anyway. Anyone who does use the crop to harm or even scare the horse into doing what they want is not doing it right! It is used to get the attention of the horse more than anything. When I am riding I will sometimes tap the crop on my horses backside if he is going particularly slow when it’s not safe to go slow (ie: across a road). I don’t beat him, he just gets a tap on the bum and it wakes him up a bit!

Save a horse, ride an activist.

@Noel_S_Leitmotiv, GA, but can we ride them hard and put them away wet? Or simply ride them into the ground? There’s no sense in beating a dead horse, but does the same apply to activists?

okay maybe that last one went a bit too far. =)

@Noel_S_Leitmotiv Wow

@evelyns_pet_zebra I see you crafting, be nice!

@evelyns_pet_zebra: activists should be beaten on general principle. ; )

@rooeytoo the question was about whipping , and that’s the question I answered. I have not contradicted myself.
I choose not to explain my position further because I can see by your responses you will twist it into something else. So the last thing I will say is that I have no problem with training animals when positive reinforcement is used. Physical pain or mental scare tactics aren’t ok with me. Gentle coaxing and rewarding of good behavior is my method. And no, I have never “broken a horse” or whatever it is you seem to be so proud of yourself for, but we did have a bunch of horses on my grandparents farm. Some of the horses were used for work, some for play, but they were never commanded to prance around for human entertainment. That’s the difference I’m trying to point out. I know horses enjoy working, but you don’t need to break them down for them to work. Tapping the rear to show which way to turn is not the same as whipping. I answered based on the wording of the question.
@TylerM I can only speak for myself. I won’t hit my animals, I won’t hit my children. A parent (or animal owner) that hits has lost control of the situation.

i mean i sure as hell wouldnt whip a horse but then i feel no erge to ride them either ..i reckon they should be wild

There is definitely a distinction between hitting things and hitting things. Liberals these days, I tell ya.

@Ivan explain….

@cyndihugs

It’s simple. You see, in the culture that I grew up in, hitting things was OK. Heck, it was encouraged. But hitting things, that is always wrong. So because my upbringing instilled arbitrary dividing lines without any basis in reason, they are objective truth. Anyone who disagrees is just a cook who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

@Ivan I understand…

i think that the way people treat nonhuman animals in order to feel superior and make them work for them is one of the most repulsive things about human nature. a little smack to an animal – or even a child – when something they do was bad? okay. whipping because you want to break the spirit of the horse, or whatever the ‘purpose’ of that is? just an excuse to be a sadistic bastard.

@evelyns_pet_zebra I’m not assuming you know or do not know anything. I’m just asserting my belief that it is absolutely impossible for any sentient being to truly know what another experiences. To say that you can absolutely know what a horse perceives when you whip it, is false. Such belief is a result of the myth of human superiority.

I have been around cats since the moment I came home from the hospital. I have spent the greater part of my adult life rescuing and tending to stray and feral cats. I even jokingly refer to myself as the cat whisperer. But even when I see a frightened stray become a loving pet, seemingly, as a result of my time and attention, I would never be as narcissistic to say that it was I who changed the animal, or that I know what a cat perceives from my actions.

Whipping a horse is not a good thing – lunging though is not harsh, normally the “whip” doesn’t even touch the horse, it’s used as an extension of the arm, and helps convey your body language that is telling the horse “go this way”. And a horse doesn’t have to be “broken” to be ridable, although the word used is still “broken”. I have seen lovely and well-trained horses who are very happy around people who have been very gently and gradually exposed to a saddle pad, a saddle, human putting a little weight on their back and so on—takes a long time, but the horse is not given a reason to dis-trust. I have a horse who is boarded at a barn with about 20 others—have found that everyone there is of a similar mindset, gentle training techniques, but they still carry crops, so do I.

People have been using whips to train horses for a long, long time, just like they’ve been using pointy sticks to herd cattle. Their hides are considerably tougher than ours, so it’s going to take a bit more oomph for the critter to realize that it’s being instructed.
There are multiple ways to use a whip. Certainly, some are abusive. But others are instructional. No expert am I, but the abusive methods tend to involve blood.
Laura Ingalls Wilder goes into some detail about what a whip can be made to do.