Are there any similarities between ancient Greek and modern Greek?

I can only tell you this: my girlfriend (who is Greek) tells me that when she hears ancient Greek, she recognises, let’s say, 75%, but she understands a mere 25%.

“The difference between ancient Greek and modern Greek is basically the same as the difference between Chaucerian English and contemporary English. They have lost one case of nouns (from four to three).”

Also, my husband (who’s quote that is above) says that you want to do it the other way around. Learn ancient and then modern.

Ancient stuff is older than modern stuff. Just want to make it plain, that was a fact.

Classical Greek is more complicated, more inflected and infinitely more peppered with accents; the rules about how to use them takes almost as much time to learn as the one verb I mastered.

That was paideno(παιδενω)...to teach.There were several hundred different endings to learn, including a startling number of participial ones.

Start by memorizing the Greek alphabet, the same in both modern and classical. Learn the forms for upper and lower case, use in middle of word and at end (sigma) and the diphtongs. Οοps. Ι forgot the smooth and rough breathing.

Alpha beta

Definitely start with ancient Greek. I think the best thing to do would be to find a textbook that looks good to you, or even better the one that will be used in the class, and start on your own before class. I liked this one; it has a workbook that goes with it, which can be useful. If you know ancient Greek, modern Greek is pretty easy to learn.

@Marina it’s actually a bigger difference than that (seeing as Chaucerian English is less than 1000 years old, whereas the Ancient Greek taught at schools is the 2500-y-old version).

I speak Modern Greek fluently. As rebbel says, when I read an ancient pillar or something, I recognise quite a lot of it (I think he means his gf reads and not hears Ancient Greek). The problem with pillars of course is that there are no spaces between the words (as you would find in a typical text for example). On the other hand, what they usually say is a list of names and nothing more, usually of the people who paid for the pillar/temple/etc.

Realistically though, you don’t have enough time to learn Modern Greek by next year anyway. If you did however learn it, it would be a very interesting language offering you insight into many other languages – practically all Indoeuropean words either directly derive from Greek or have developed alongside a Greek word which has still kept its original meaning. This means that language makes more sense if you see it through these eyes. Combined with German and English, I can understand most languages spoken here in Europe. I bet that if I could speak better Russian, I’d understand practically everything.

As far as Ancient Greek is concerned, if you spoke Modern Greek fluently, you would be able to make general sense of a text (ok, let’s just say Chaucer for now, even though the difference is actually bigger). You might not know specific words, and the syntax is certainly very different. But it would help.

The real problem is time though. You cannot realistically expect to learn any language in a year, and all you’d learn would be a few basic words and phrases, and maybe some complicated grammar rules that you’d soon forget. Not worth it.

@gailcalled I’m pretty sure you mean “paidevo” (παιδεύω) right? I think the Alphabet is probably the easiest bit. I know people are terrified by different alphabets, but it only takes about a day to learn (took me a day to learn the Cyrillic and Arabic alphabets), and half the letters are the same in this case. Greek is also phonetic, which is great.

@Jack79 ”(I think he means his gf reads and not hears Ancient Greek)”
You are right, there.
And i know what you mean when you say that Greek is phonetic, my girlfriend explained that to me too.
I, however, can not explain it here, so could you give one example (i’m thinking of the word bar, am i right?)?

Yes, and many others.

There was this great thread here on fluther where Jeruba posted something by Mark Twain about the English language and its pronunciation rules. Simple example: how do you pronounce the word “live”? It can be “live” as in “five” if you’re talking about live music, but “live” as in “give” if it’s a verb (“I live in NY”). And why isn’t it pronounced the same as “liver”? French is just as bad. But in Greek (as well as Spanish, Italian, German, Russian, just to name a few) the word ”λιβε” (which is not a real word) would always be “live” as in “liver” (the sound of L, I, V, and E).

There are some basic rules about diphthongs (same as German) and of course some exceptions, but overall once you learn the code, you can read any word easily. Knowing what it means is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Just for reference, here’s the alphabet (only 24 letters nowadays)

A=always an A as in “bat”
B=always a V
Γ=always a gamma sound (something like “y” in “yacht”)
Δ=always a “th” as in “there”
Ε=always an E as in “bet”
Ζ=same as Z
Η=a long double ee as in “bee”, nowadays pronounced the same as I
Θ=always a “th” as in “three”
I=always an I as in “it”
Κ=same as K
Λ=same as L
Μ=same as M
N=same as N
Ξ=same as X
Ο=always O as it “hot”
Π=same as P
Ρ=same as R
Σ=same as S
Τ=same as T
Υ=same as H and I (the sound of I in “hit”) but used in diphthongs
Φ=same as F
Χ=always a hard H sound, as in Scottish “loch”
Ψ=always a PS (P is pronounced)
Ω=same as O (though originally a longer sound, like the AU in “pause”)

Diphthongs:
A+Y=AV or AF
E+Y=EV or EF
O+Y=OU (as in “you”)
A+I=E
E+I=I
O+I=I
H+I, Ω+Ι and Y+I are now obsolete

As you may have noticed, there are many different ways to spell the sound “ee” in Greek. It could be EI, OI, I, H, Y, (and even YI and HI in the old days). This has caused a nightmare for generations of schoochildren who have to learn proper spelling, and even people who have finished school often get it wrong. Which means Greek is far more difficult to write (properly) than read. Luckily Microsoft has a spell-checker ;)

@Jack79 The point was not about the time, but about the level of difference. 2,500 years ago there was no English, only proto-English, which would be incomprehensible to English speakers of today. Also, at least for my husband, he does not read pillars, he reads texts.

@Marina I know, I understood that. Still, having read both Chaucer and ancient Greek texts (both admittedly pretty hard), I’d say the difference is probably bigger (the time was given merely as an explanation of why it is bigger). In any case, the point is that there are similarities, but it’s certainly hard to understand a much older root language, even if you’re fluent in the modern version of it (Italian and Latin would probably be the same).

@Jack79 : You are right. It’s an accented upsilon and not nu. So much for being self-taught. Would that transliterate into paide oo (or uh) o?

The text I used (to sustain myself during chemotherapy and radiation) was recommended by several classics professors at the college where my brother taught.

It is From Alpha to Omega; A Beginning Course in Classical Greek: Anne H. Groton.
It is a serious book, large and heavy and can be used to swat mosquitoes when one tires of first, second or third aorist of verbs with liquid stems and?or passive and active voices, which one did rather quickly.

ταμπαχ ψοκε ιντερνετ

No. In this case you read the ε+υ first, and that’s an “ev” here (in other cases, it could be “ef” as explained above). So it would be pronounced “pedevo”. btw the word in modern Greek means “trouble someone” or “be a pain in the arse”. But ”εκπαιδευω” still means “educate”.

Also, your link above (the New Testament Greek) shows how words were probably pronounced 2000 years ago (I imagine it to be quite accurate, though I’m not an expert), but is very different from today. Which is why I was explaining about the different ways of writing “I”.

As you can imagine, I just picked up Greek by spending more than a decade in the country (which is how I picked up most of the languages I speak). So I don’t know any good learner’s books. I did however read a lot of novels in Greek, and can spell better than any Greek I know, even most philologists.

…“tampax coke internet”? lol

Thank you all for your great information. So I guess I’ll just wait it out until next year, when I have an actual teacher to guide me through it. It seems way too complicated to do without a real person guiding you. The class is a beginners class, so I guess it will be very simple and straighforward, and there’s probably a good teaching method, as every Classics student must take at least 3 Greek or Latin courses.

@Mtl_zack; If υοθ ψαν ρεαδ τηισ, you are ready to take the course.

@Jack79: Give me the phonetic pronunciation of paidevo. I see no beta there. So where does the “ef” sound come from? Sorry to be so στθπιδ.

@gailcalled: In ancient Greek (at least as ancient Greek is pronounced today, which is partly conjecture), it would be pai-deu-o. In modern Greek, the diphthong eu is pronounced ef or ev like @Jack79 said. There are other unexpected pronunciations of letter combinations (consonants as well as vowels) in modern Greek; for example ντ (nu tau) is pronounced “d” and μπ (mu pi) is “b”. I remember these spellings leading to some funny transliterations of actors’ names on movie posters; for example “Brad Pitt” is μπραντ πιτ (mprant pit).

Thanks. I finally understand. As I said, I am a little σλος. (Zack; notice the different form of the “s” at the beginning of “slow” and at the end.”

My friend who spends a lot of time in Greece told me about the sign that said ”Ταμαχ.” She was very relieved to be able to read it.

Exactly what theabk said :)

Guesswork among linguists has led them to believe that the word παιδεύω would sound something like “pie-day-woe” (ie the English words “pie” “day” and “woe” said together). Pronouncing ”ευ” as either “ev” or “ef” (and also ”αυ” as either “av” or “af”) is a much more recent development, believed to have started around 1200–1400 AD.

@Jack79 @theabk: This is the problem with studying Classical Greek. Here we are, on day three of how to pronounce one word. At this rate Mtl_Zack will be in the classroom for α λονγ τιμε.

Ι have excavated and found my 5 lb. textbook and might spend the day with it, instead of getting cash, gas, food, and sundries.

…or you could simply take an αεροπλανο to Ελλαδα and learn the γλωσσα where it is spoken, just like I did. You start by αναγνωριζοντας single λεξεις here and there, and σταδιακα more and more, filling in the κενα, until you τελικα καταλαβαινεις τα παντα.

No fair. You’re using real Greek words, but I get the point. Have I mentioned that I will no longer get on an airplane unless there is a death in the family?

Alas, (or Helas,) I have to go.

You think I won’t return to ^^ later and work out every word?

I actually expect you to ;)

(to be honest, I thought your Greek would be good enough to understand this, besides half the words are also used in English in some form, which would help understand them if you tried hard enough)

I did say I got the point, but will have to get back to this. My Classical Greek consists of Chapter I (alphabet) , Chapter 2 (accents, pronunciation and diphthongs) and Chapter 3 (present tense of piedaywoe).

..Take an aeroplano to Hellasa and learn the glossa….so far so good. So long ‘til later.

δ=d (so “Ellada” in modern Greek, “Hellas” is the ancient name). It’s different from σ, though they look a bit similar, especially in some older fonts.

@Jack79: I am Odysseus; the Sirens are beckoning. Tie me to the mast, until tomorrow at least. (Ellada? What a nerve? Although now that I think of it, there is Hellene.)

Lesson #452: Latin punctuation and stress added to the Greek language

When the Romans conquered Greece (and several centuries after that), and tried, among other things, to learn the language, they realised that Greek was not as phonetic as Latin, or as phonetic as we presume today. For example, the word ”ΕΛΛΑΣ” (no lower-case letters back then) was actually pronounced “hellas”, with a stress on the A. So, they did two things:
1) they added various symbols (similar to ones used in Arabic but also Byzantine hymnbooks) to show them how and where to breathe, one typical example being the “daseia”, which was a sound like modern-day English letter H. The symbol was similar to a small c before the word (and eventually over the first vowel). Many words, such as Ερμης, Ηφαιστος, Ελλας, αιμορραγια, ομοφυλοφιλος, ετερος, etc were pronounced with this “h” sound, and therefore became what we now know as Hermes, Hephaestus, Hellas, hemorrage, homo(sexual), hetero(sexual) and so on…
2) The Romans, who didn’t know which vowel to stress, added various stress symbols (known as the “polytonic system”) which told them how to stress the word. Most verbs for example ended in -ω and took a ”περισπωμένη” (a broken horizontal line), whereas other stresses might take an ”οξεια” (acute) a ”βαρεια”(heavy) or even an ”υπογεγγραμμενη” (understroke). All of the above rules were simplified in 1981, when Greece adopted the “monotonic” system, with a single stroke marking which of the syllables is stressed, and no “daseia” (since the pronunciation had become obsolete anyway, people say “Ellada” or at least “Ellas” and not “Hellas” nowadays).
3) an interesting note here was that the letter R was a vowel in Ancient Greek. With a daseia, it sounded very much like an Arabic letter (which I can’t write here), the first letter in the name of former UN Secretary Butros-Butros Galli (it’s not a G, it’s that letter I mean, which is something between a W, a H, a Y, and an A). That’s what the Greek R sounded like (ok, you can imagine that without the daseia it sounded like the French R, so with it, it was just a lot harder and deeper).

Lesson #453: Please use breaks.Remember my eyes.

I am saving this project for the next heavy snowfall, which, given the odd weather patterns, could come soon. I can, however, do a wonderful French R.

(I love this stuff. Keep it coming.)

jack79 , I’m an Arabic speaker and decided to start learning Modern Greek , started taking courses since last December , and i’m finding it interesting , and FOR NOW its going fine with me , and I HOPE it remains like this ( am sure not ) but if I said that everything is hard and impossible to learn then I wouldn’t learn anything in life , I also want to study or at least check the Ancient Greek but I heard it will be double harder but maybe sometime latter when I can be just on a good standard with this Modern Greek . by the way , we can exchange informations, If you need help with Arabic! also!
Και γεια σας , από την Αιγύπτο.