What are the obstacles to learning Algebra in high school?

Obstacles? I failed 2 years of Algebra because I couldn’t see a practical application to what I was learning, I didn’t understand what the mathematics were actually for.
and now as a consequence I have to go back and take it in college after 5 years of not a single math class

How can you struggle in algebra?

@MrGeneVan Are you kidding?

Algebra is easy. Calculus is hard.

I would think that somehow working on simple problems until people feel confident and then moving up would be great, but its not really practical. Perhaps showing how simple problems evolve into more complicated problems, and that they could do the simple problems so this is just a step up and not really that much more complicated would help people to understand how it works and gain confidence. Relating new material to the old material in other ways, even if its not as similar or simply a step up, might help with the introduction of new material without major stress.

@The_Compassionate_Heretic @MrGeneVan
Algebra is NOT easy for everyone. Just because some of you are good at math and didn’t have a problem with algebra doesn’t mean its easy for everyone. Its called “compassion.” Get some.

It’s admittedly a tongue in cheek comparison. Calculus is far harder than algebra.
I had trouble with algebra at first so I ended up spending more time with it. It came eventually but it took work.

I would say a big obstacle to learning algebra is thinking you can’t learn algebra.

really?

you had to completely calculus in my school to graduate and we had an above average graduation rate.

algebra can be difficult for some people yes, but I’d be fully supportive of four required math credits (one for each full year), I think the problem lies in more to what @Sarcasm alluded to, students don’t see the practical implications of entry level algebra so they don’t take any interest in it. The thing is, Algebra covers a lot of bases and baby steps through a lot of things that are needed for later maths like trig, statistics, calculus, mathematical physics, etc. so there’s a lot of information packed into one class and it can be overwhelming. having Algebra 2 be required helps reinforce the base concepts in alg 1, and I feel it’s desperately needed.

Not understanding basic terms and what they really mean. Also, examples are often irrelevant, or too complicated. I like to be able to track numbers through the equation when I’m learning something new. Most math instruction leading up to algebra skips around too much. A lot of time is wasted on stupid stuff. For example, what’s the point of teaching stem and leaf plots in middle school?

There’s the tire course, the rings, and (gulp) the brick wall w/ rope.

@MrGeneVan EXACTLY!! How do you even struggle to pass Algebra 1, those are like your basics. Like it’s not even that challenging. It’s almost as easy as your basic arithmetic. I mean yeah I’ll admit I did have problems while taking Algebra 1 for the first time, and it’s not like you should understand it the 1st time around. I even sometimes felt left out because some kids were more quick to answer and more quick to understand it than me. Looking back all in all, algebra as a whole wasn’t so hard as I made it to be. But the obstacles I had in Algebra one were probably the radical aspect of it. In Algebra 2, what I found was a hard objective was when we were introduced to conics. Boy I hated that. Anyways I’m off to pre-cal this year, hopefully it won’t be as hard as some people say it is. What’s interesting is that I just finished Algebra 2, and in the majority of our projects, which mostly we had 3 throughout the whole year, were about careers and jobs that use Algebra within their everyday lives. We had to actually research this, and I’m thinking it’s because so many students were left there wondering, like “what is this stuff for anyways and how in the world could you use this in life.” I found this website useful within answering this kind of question. http://www.xpmath.com/careers/intro.php

@NazNthahouse23 hit upon a good point. Some kids “get it” right off the bat, and the teacher will blow through to the next concept, sometimes leaving half the class somewhere between “Huh?” and “I think I get it…sort of…”

I’m curious to know what state this is. I know in California there is a law that requires 8th-graders to be tested in algebra.

For me, the problems I had with algebra (I was, however, fortunate enough to have amazing teachers, so I’m pretty fond of the subject) were that a) I couldn’t figure out if a certain topic had any practical applications in the real world (if it would matter in my life); and b) I needed to understand why a formula or rule worked before I could memorize it and have it stick.

@PandoraBoxx There is no point to stem-and-leaf plots, I’m assuming, because I have no idea what they are and middle school wasn’t that long ago. I don’t think I ever encountered them again.

@kyanblue, I encountered them again in a statistics class for Six Sigma training. Why they were taught in middle school is beyond me, unless they were teaching to a test.

I hated math until I got to Algebra and then later on Calculus. They seemed to me to be a form of game, where you learn the rules and then figure out how to apply them so you “win” (solve the equation). I got A’s in those classes, when before I typically got C’s in Arithmetic.

My mother also saw Algebra as a game and did well in it, ending up as an engineer (although she had originally planned to be an artist).

Possibly taking this approach could help the kids who otherwise don’t “get” Algebra.

I’m not meaning to sound elitist or anything here, but why would people have difficulty in understanding algebra?

@Saturated_Brain Again. ARE YOU KIDDING?

People have trouble with all kinds of things. Just because you found it easy doesn’t mean everyone finds it easy. Its not that hard of a concept to grasp.

@avvooooooo Oh I know that some stuff which is easy for people can be difficult for others. But I’m wondering why people would find algebra difficult? It seems like a very basic concept of mathematics to me.

So why would you find it difficult? That’s what I want to understand.

Sometimes things just don’t click.
If I had an algebra book handy I could go through the chapters and explain what doesn’t make sense to me, but unfortunately, I don’t.

@Saturated_Brain I would be one of those people who doesn’t really get math concepts the first time around. Fortunately for me, I tend to understand them before too long. There are other people who just don’t get them at all.

Just like you don’t seem to get that some people just don’t get math. Even the “easy” stuff.

Interestingly enough, my two biggest struggles in math were long division and geometry. For some reason the idea behind long division took forever to lodge in my brain, much to my father’s frustration.

And then in geometry we had possibly the worst teacher ever. We called her “The Turtle” in part because her last name suggested it, but also because she always wore turtlenecks and had such bad posture that she always seemed to be withdrawing into her shell. In addition, she spoke in a soft, slow voice with some sort of speech impediment that made her sound as if she always had a terrible cold.

A friend of mine was never able to “get” math, and to this day has a devil of a time even balancing her check book. Interestingly enough, she was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome as an adult, which explained her social awkwardness, and which may indicate brain wiring that just doesn’t work for math.

And my brother loved math and even got a perfect score on the math portion of the SAT. He went off to college to become an engineer. However, shortly before he left for college he fell and hit his head. Subsequently, even though available tests showed no long-term damage, he lost even his ability to add and subtract. Apparently, whatever part, or parts, of the brain that handle math was damaged.

Thus, depending on brain architecture, some people just don’t “get” math, while others do wonderfully in math but languish in some other subject such as essay-writing.

@Darwin thanks for explaining it. At least now it makes more sense to me that it’s to do with the brain structure. How’s your brother doing now? That sounds terrible.

@avvooooooo You spend your time bemoaning and criticising me for not getting that people just can’t understand, when I want to understand why that happens. If I just took things at face value and didn’t try to probe deeper I’d be getting nowhere in my pursuit for knowledge.

@Saturated_Brain You just don’t understand this. Some people just don’t understand math. Some people just don’t understand ironing. Some people just don’t get driving (but they generally think they’re great at it). Some people just don’t get sports. Some people just don’t get writing. Some people just don’t get that others can find something difficult that they find easy.

How is not getting how people can find math difficult any different than people just not getting something else? Its not. Just as you can’t wrap your head around this, others can’t wrap their head around other things. I already said that. You “just can’t understand” this while others “just can’t understand” other things. Its the same. Its not “bemoaning,” its a simple statement. 1+1=2.

As for the brain thing, it might be brain differences. It is likely that it has something to do with the brain as our brains make us all individual and different. People have difference skills and weaknesses, different abilities. How we think, how we process, how we do many things influence what we get and what we do well and what we don’t. But what it all boils down to is what I’ve already said. Just like you don’t get this concept, some people don’t get math.

@avvooooooo Ironing and math can both be learned.

@avvooooooo So in a phrase, you’re advocating ignorance.

@The_Compassionate_Heretic There is such a thing as a math disability. There are people who can’t learn math. Its not simply a matter of practice makes perfect, its a matter of their though processes simply not being compatible with math. Recognizing that some people are simply not capable, just like some people are simply not capable of getting up out of a wheelchair that they’re in from a severed spinal cord and walking, is not giving up on them. Its recognizing their disability, their inability, and working around it.

@Saturated_Brain Accepting that some people can’t grasp a concept or a subject is not “advocating ignorance.” Its accepting that people are different and have different capabilities. You don’t seem to be admitting to your lack of capability to grasp other people’s problems and difficulties. You probably think that the aforementioned person could get up and walk because walking is not that difficult. It simply isn’t true, it doesn’t work that way. That person’s body doesn’t get how to walk, it doesn’t function in that way. Some people’s brains don’t get how to do math, their brains don’t function in that way. Some can eventually find a way to figure it out (this question is about finding a way to help them figure it out) but some don’t. There are a lot of things out there that we have to accept about ourselves and other people and choosing to be ignorant of the fact that some people can’t help their problems is a real problem.

@Saturated_Brain Tell me, do you get straight A’s in all of your classes? or whatever the “top score” equivalent is over there Surely there are some subjects you don’t do so well in?

I’ve always done quite well with languages. They make sense to me. Yet I know plenty of people who struggle(d) with even Spanish 1, simply figuring out when to use “soy” versus using “estoy”, or the difference between the two past tenses (Imperfect and Preterite if I’m remembering correctly).
I know people who failed Geometry while I got an A in it without an effort.

To acknowledge that different people have different strong/weak points is not “advocating ignorance”. Michael Phelps probably isn’t good at Shotput.

@Sarcasm just a related thought, when I was taking language classes it always helped me to memorize my vocabulary and proper sentence structure if I broke it all down into a math equation lol….

@avvooooooo & @Sarcasm (although it’s more for avvooooooo) Okay. I’ll put it another way. I know that people are good at some things and bad at others. But I want to know why that works. From all that you’ve told me so far you’ve basically been saying that I need to accept that certain people aren’t good at maths. Fine. I can accept it. But what’s wrong with trying to understand why they aren’t good at maths? Even the basic concepts of maths?

For the majority of cases, I believe that the ‘obstacles’ to learning algebra are simply more due to the way in which it’s taught rather than inherent obstacles with algebra itself or the person learning it.

Throughout this conversation, you’ve never given me a response as to why people have this difficulty besides “They just have it”.

I think that the average person (ignoring cases of ‘math disabilities’, which are outside of the norm) should be perfectly competent enough to learn math. It’s probably more a matter of whether their teacher or their school curriculum explained math in terms that were understandable, and helped that person learn best.

I don’t think people in one school district with consistently high math scores have brains that were wired better for math than people in other schools that were struggling in math. It’s mostly about your early experiences with math (learning the basics, adopting the ‘math mindset’ to problem solving, whether math was a positive or negative thing) and the present learning experience in their classes. Yes, there are people who have ‘math talent’ or ‘writing talent’, but those people are again outside of the norm, and it’s not like those people are born knowing geometry. ;)

@Saturated_Brain I can answer your question in terms of a neurology perspective if that’s what you’re asking for?

sorry to butt in, of course O.o

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 Any explanation is fine! That way at least I’ll feel like I’m getting somewhere…

And no problems about butting in. You’re just participating in the conversation that’s all. =)

In my opinion a majority of teenagers that struggle in algebra do so simply because they have little to no interest in the subject, because most of algebra does not have real world applications, but rather building blocks for more advanced mathematics or for cognitive development ( @kyanblue those stem and leaf plots are more or less a test for a teacher to gage their students ability to connect left brain and right brain activity, not for you to use it when you find a career). long story short in this scenario, which I feel is by far the most common, is the student does not possess the required interest level, so the dedication they put into the subject suffers, whether it be consciously or unconsciously.

Many people who simply naturally struggle with math, however, usually do so because the frontal lobe of their Cerebral cortex, which controls thought and memory, is under developed. for interest of time and my sleep schedule though I am going to cut this off without going into much detail regrettably, but tomorrow I’ll be back and fill in some details if you like.

People always hate talking to me about school because a lot of it came easy to me. I rocked at math (Calculus is freaking hard though!) and Algebra is my favorite.

I would have to suggest lots of homework. I have always found patterns in my assignments in the problem solving, which helps you solve similar problems. I think a lot of the time is just trying to get the student to see where they should go next when solving problems. I’d imagine that is super hard to teach to someone that isn’t getting it, and practice makes perfect. I’d suggest classes after school that can focus on the students whose strength is not math. Work though problems together and explain why the next step is what we took. Then, have the students work alone (or in groups, though no one likes to look stupid so that may no help). Go through the problems they just worked on.

I’m going on the assumption that the student wants to learn, regardless of whether they are interested in it or they just want to graduate. I’m suggesting a voluntary after school class to focus solely on helping students through it. Hell, I’d love to teach Algebra to people who wanted to learn.

A lot of high school teachers (that I’ve had experience with) do the “I’m making you do this so you’re ready for college” crap. Hence, the homework being done outside of school. I think simply having the teacher there, while they work on problems, and having him/her readily available to answer questions and then go over it to help student better understand it.

I’d imagine that someone who isn’t getting it would get frustrated with the homework, because it often feels different from what the teacher explained in class. Having the teacher there to reinforce the lecture would be the best help that I can think of.

@ABoyNamedBoobs03 You will have to teach me how you transformed vocab & sentence structure into math equations! I sucked at that stuff.

@Saturated_Brain My brother ended up as a musician with degrees in International Studies and Law. He makes very little money but is happy.

i think the obstacle is algebra itself.
some people are just not good at math. and some – at least most of the people i know who hate math – dislike it so much because it seems quite unrealistic that any of it would be used in real life situations. i mean, of course there’s a good amount of it that is, but after you get past that, it gets boring and feels pointless to a lot of people. (like me. but i passed algebra 2 years ago, so i’m happy).

The main obstacles are image and motivation. It’s seems cool to not like math. And many math teachers fail to show the connections to real life. Math is everywhere around us. Just take lotteries for example. If people knew more about math, most of them would not play. Just a week ago or so, some guy in Italy got a 25,000 euro credit to play the lottery because the Italian jackpot was almost 150 million euros. Now what are the odds of getting the right 6 numbers out of 90?

There’s plenty of bullshit about lotteries on the web and too many people believe in it, because when they were in school they thought math was uncool. Here’s a hilarious example:

“Luck is a major factor in any lottery game. But as a smart player, you know that it’s wise not to leave everything to luck. Various strategies are available for those who are passionate about winning the jackpot prize. If you are playing the Italy 6/90 or Italy Super Enalotto, you can choose from a lot of resources available online to boost your chances of winning (...).

Here are some useful tips that can help you improve your chances of winning the Italy 6/90 lotto. First, try to choose a balanced combination of odd and even numbers. It is very rare that winning numbers consist of all even or all odd numbers. In fact, it happens on only four percent of the time. For best results, you can choose one of the following combinations: three odd and three even numbers (3/3), four odd and two even numbers (4/2), and two odd and four even numbers (2/4). When you use a balanced mix of odd and even numbers, chances are you’ll get the desired results in the Italian lotto drawings.”

http://ezinearticles.com/?Free-Italy-6-90-Strategy-Tips&id=2151388

A balanced mix? Excuse me?

By the way, the guy lost his 25000 euros. Arrivederci my beloved money! He never liked algebra or calculus or the theory of probabilities.

I’m not saying math is easy. But becoming a good quarterback isn’t easy either. Image and motivation and a little bit of talent. It all boils down to that.