Is there a difference between a description and an insult?

That’s a really difficult question to answer without a specific example.

Like if he says, you are saying that because you are a woman, and “means your just a woman so your opinion doesn’t count.” Yes, I’m a woman, but it’s still an insult.

Specific example:

@YARNLADY Since when do humans decide what the function of other biotes is? Roses have precisely the same function as you, or ants, or alligators: to propagate their genes. Everything else is anthropomorphic commentary.
pdworkin (4424points)Great Answer! (2points) Flag as… ¶
YARNLADY’s avatar

@pdworkin I suggest you read up on Plant Husbandry. Humans have been deciding these things since the dawn of time. Some roses have to be grafted because they develop no seeds. Many fruit trees are grafted, because those grown from seed do not produce desireable fruit. Many foods have been developed no seeds.
YARNLADY (8763points)“Great Answer” (0points) Flag as… ¶
pdworkin’s avatar

@YARNLADY That’s just human beings crapping around. It doesn’t change the rose’s function. My, how anthropocentric you are on this topic.
pdworkin (4424points)Great Answer! (0points) Flag as… ¶
YARNLADY’s avatar

@pdworkin Apparently I have a different definition of function than you do. Please don’t use personal insults.

The key part of the phrase, IMO, is “to belittle.” If that is in fact why the word was used, then it is an insult. If that is not how it was intended then it is possible for it to simply be a negative description, not necessarily meant as an insult.

For example, my husband could say, “Supacase is really messy” and it would simply be a fact that isn’t very flattering toward me. Or, he could say, “Supacase is so messy that I doubt she even knows what a broom is for!” and that could be insulting.

The tone, which is completely missing online, also counts.

Without addressing the current disagreement you two are having, such a thing is called “rationalization”.

Addressing the current disagreement you two are having, if you two have things to work out between yourselves, please do so over PM’s.

The insult in your example isn’t that you’re a woman, it is that your opinion doesn’t count. Unless they are talking about what it feels like to take a knee to the groin or get a prostate exam, one has nothing to do with the other; it is a false correlation.

This should really be handled privately through PM’s. I think it’s wrong for the Yamlady to bring this to the main question page.

@YARNLADY
in your example, “you are saying that because you are a woman” is an attack ad hominem. It doesn’t actually explain or defend the arguer’s position, it just undermines the position of his opponent in an irrelevant and off-handed manner. So, it’s more of an insult than a description (it doens’t describe anything).

Is there such a thing as reading too much into, well, everything?

Ok. How about a link to what prompted this brouhaha. As long as it IS on the main page how about not beating around the bush about it.

This question is not about the example that @pdworkin has chosen to present. He is the one who put it here. The question came to mind when he gave his answer, but is not related to the personal exchange.

Many times an exchange can bring up a question that we have about something. This is in no way related to @pdworkin .

So, what IS it related to then.

All this wandering around the mulberry bush is making me dizzy.

@Buttonstc I provided an example above, and another one would be when someone belittles a person about age, either you are so young or so old, you don’t know what you are talking about. The age is a description of the person, but it is still an insult.

Edit, I just thought of another one: That’s just what I would expect from (a Christian, an Atheist, a Republican/Democrat). Any of these descriptions used to belittle an opinion.

The primary problem is that making that sort of evaluation requires one to be a mind reader. That’s not a skill that humans have yet perfected to a reliable degree.

If someone is describing the position of another based upon their own written statements then it’s pretty difficult to make a determination without being in another person’s head. To automatically assume an insult is unwarranted and tone of voice is very difficult to gauge on the Internet.

It also depends upon which descriptive term is used. Some are obviously meant as insults. Others are merely words. Nothing more, nothing less.

Personally, I think that anthropocentric is that kind of word. For crying out loud, I am anthropocentric most of the time as is the rest of the human race. Hardly a term of universal insult.

And as a little side note, I get really irked and resent having to spend the time to ferret out the specifics of a situation when someone is being extremely disingenuous. To ANYone reading this who may perceive that as an insult rather than an observation, I just have one thing to say: if the shoe fits, wear it.

I think there’s a potential for picking fights and perceiving insults where there are none.

@avvooooooo Yes, that is one reason I have often wondered about this. Some people go around seeing insults in every comment, and others deliberately belittle others and then say it was just a description. It’s very difficult to tell. To me, when gratuitous name calling is used, it is usually meant as an insult, and especially when the user resorts to “you” this, or “you” that. In a useful discussion, the ideas are discussed without name calling.

@Buttonstc again, I did not refer to the above “example” because it only jogged my memory of the generalized discussion I want to have

From your example, in short, i think words coming out from the other party is meant to belittle the other.

Is there a difference between a description and an insult? Sometimes and sometimes, not. It depends on context, and both parties understanding or interpretation of the context, the sensitivity of the receiver, the intent of the speaker based on his/her perception of the discussion or situation, which would also bring into play the speakers sensitivities, and how the receiver perceives the intent, rightly or wrongly.
Here’s a real life example. A customer has a argument with a store manager over the way he was, in his opinion, mislead by a sales associate. The manager has heard plenty of these arguments in the past and knows that nearly every time the customer is wrong and is really trying to get a discount, so he taikes a hard stand. The customer tells the manager that he is “acting like an ass.” The manager tells him that he is not going to put up with someone calling him an ass and proceeds to throw the guy out of the store. The guy takes it to corporate and in subsequent discussions takes the position that he did not call the manager an ass and only said he was acting like an ass.
Saying “you are an ass” is clearly an insult, the intent is clear. Saying “you are acting like an ass” is a description and is not necessarily an insult. If addressed to me and I believe I am probably not acting in a reasonable manner, I wouldn’t take it as an insult, but as a description for poor behavior. If my behavior was just and this statement came out of nowhere and was in no way appropriate, it is an insult. But the customer may have felt differently about my behavior (context/sensitivity) and meant it only as a description (intent) of how he viewed that behavior (perception).
There are many variables that come into play and it comes down to personal opinion, which of course may or may not be correct. By the way, I was not present at the manager/customer discussion so I can’t offer an opinion as a third party, but I will tell you that the customer was afforded a nice discount by corporate and was in fact an attorney that adamantly claimed that saying “you are acting like an ass” is not the same as calling you an ass.
See ya…Gary/wtf

@YARNLADY, so really what you’re asking is, “Is stereotyping an insult or a description?”

Insults usually are descriptions. That’s just they way they’re set up linguistically. Whether I take a paticular description as an insult depends on how attuned I am to the describer/insulter’s mood, words, and manner of expression, as well as how good I myself am at picking up on such things. I like Button’s answer for thoughts about the intent end of things and Gary’s answer for an overview of the situation’s dynamics. Just thought I’d go into the perception end of things a bit more.

An insult makes the person feel bad. A description can be an insult, or can be taken as one, if you take it personally. Of course, we are in control of what makes us feel bad. So what is an insult to one person may not be taken personally at all by another.

So, if someone makes a blanket statement about women, I wouldn’t take that seriously. Clearly it shows a lack of clear analysis on the part of the person making the assertion. One might laugh at this comment, or poke fun at it, or even explain how it is wrong, and how it reflects poorly on the reasoning ability of the person who made it.

If one were a woman, one could take it seriously, or as a veiled insult directed at the individual woman, I suppose. But why bother? I think you only take something as an insult if you want a fight. Your other choice is to walk away and find more interesting or reasonable people to talk to. No explanation is required. Who cares what an unreasonable person thinks?

You can only be belittled if you want to be. If you let yourself be belittled, then it might be useful to ask yourself why you let it affect you? Perhaps you want a fight? Perhaps you really care about the person’s opinion? If so, why? Do you believe them? Do you think they could be right?

Personally, I prefer to pick apart the argument, such as it is. I might try to gather more information. Like, why do you think women’s opinions don’t count? Do you have any evidence to support such an assertion? What is it? Is this evidence generalizable? Depersonalize the issue and make someone try to prove it.

It can only be an insult if you take it personally.

@whatthefluther GA good story, I agree with that explanation

@daloon GA The last sentence is a very good point