Does this make sense to you? (See details)

Yes. You should complain. You should complain that your daughter’s English teacher doesn’t understand English.

That does not make any sense what so ever. Is that to teach them about third person perspective for a quarter of the year? Or is that her lesson plan for the rest of the year?

I would first talk to the English teacher and see if she has some kind of good reason for those rules. I can’t imagine what they might be, but you should do her the courtesy of asking. Maybe the rule is temporary to draw the students’ attention to the difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person narratives.

If the teacher doesn’t have any kind of reason for this strange rule, talk to the principal.

There is no “good reason” for a rule to speak English incorrectly. This makes as much sense as a math teacher insisting her students recite “2 + 2 = 5” every morning. Speaking in the 3rd person about your own self is grammatically incorrect English. The “reason” she might or might not have for doing so is irrelevant.

@MrItty I agree that her method doesn’t make sense. I’m only suggesting that @ShanEnri talk to the teacher first before going above her head. The teacher probably thinks she does have a good reason for those rules. Give her a chance to explain them, discuss it with her, and if that’s not satisfying, take it up the chain of command. I’m not defending the teacher’s rules, just suggesting a way to address the issue.

Who’s her english teacher – Bob Dole?

“Bob Dole is going to the bathroom. Bob Dole has to piss like a racehorse.”

That’s ridiculous. Let’s learn about the English language by using it improperly.

@eponymoushipster Same answer I was gonna give, except I was gonna use Reggie Jackson. People who speak in 3rd person creep me out.

Why would you want to teach children to speak about themselves in a detached way?

I thought schooling was also involved in teaching children to take responsibility for who they are and what they do.

Your daughter is not an object, unfeeling and remote from her own existence. Her brain is not the driver of an unconnected body.

How you choose to address it is obviously up to you but I can’t see a good reason for this method.

It reminds me of Victorian ideology, children should be seen but not heard and where emotion is terribly passé. Not constructive in my book.

What happens if your daughter does something wrong? I don’t suppose she would be allowed the retort of “Oh no miss, that wasn’t me that was Sarah”

Bizarre.

AC.

@MissAusten I agree that she should talk to the teacher – but only to determine if her daughter’s claims are accurate. It’s possible her daughter has misinterpreted the “rule”. If it is accurate however, I see no reason to continue the conversation with the teacher. A teacher who teaches incorrect factual information should be removed from the classroom, not reasoned with.

@Markyy did notice he was using a lot of 1st person statements in his fluther answers and since yesterday he tried to minimize the use of ‘I’. Constantly using ‘I’ sounds like a second grader’s English. Maybe your English teacher read my posts and got agitated by them.

It just sounds so wrong to talk about yourself in the third person. No matter what the reason is for not using first person, it can’t justify sounding like a douchebag for the rest of your life.

I’m still stuck on “takes off points” every time they don’t follow this rule.

What kinds of points? Final grade points? Brownie points? Imaginary points? And if that are not imaginary, how does she possibly keep track of all the infractions?

That and trying to compute it all for final analysis who’d require a Math degree. She is obviously in the wrong field.

She should be teaching “The Advanced Calculus of Nitpickery.”

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

@ShanEnri She’s a crackpot.

There is no way that kids should be penalized for speaking correct or, for that matter, incorrect English. Especially not correct English. She might have a reason for it, but her method is ridiculous and teaches kids detachment, not the narrative forms. This isn’t a higher level Spanish class where people are required to speak only Spanish. Its looney.

You might want to ask for a conference with the teacher and an administrator. Its possible that nobody’s complained yet and the administrators are unaware of what’s going on in that classroom. And when they do know, there will probably be a change of policy in the room since there’s no conceivable way that this is a good thing.

Is she teaching the kids to be royalty?

@mrentropy You might be on to something here.

@mrentropy if she is, she’s doing that wrong too. Royalty speaks with first person plural, not third person.

@MrItty right, the “Royal We”.

Very well. Perhaps she is a fan of James P. Blaylock’s Bulumnia books and is teaching the kids to speak like Squire Myrkle.

“Jimmy’s gonna get you George. Jimmy holds a grudge.”

maybe facebook got to her??

I could see this making sense if it was schoolwide policy (probably in some effort to dehumanize and de-ego the children? Part of their assassin’s training?). But one class? That’s sort of weird.

Please let us know what comes of this after you talk to the teacher and/or principal!

I can’t think of a reason a teacher would do this. It seems absurd. Perhaps she has some great plan though…

TKL does not approve of this

I certainly agree with @MissAusten; talk to the teacher first.

@mrentropy has reminded me of something though. My mother is a fifth grade teacher and during one part of the year she teaches her students about the American Revolution by pretending that she is the king and her students are colonists. She doesn’t fully explain that they have the right to revolt and cause an uprising, but taxes them unfairly, makes them address her in certain ways, etc. Eventually (with only one year as an exception) the students ban together and overthrow her, and then she stops to explain the scenario fully, providing them a more personal connection to history.

There also exist all the segregation / Nazism / other simmulations that always causes a lot of hard feelings. And sometimes, riots.

___I’m just saying she may really have some reason to be doing this.
.

No doubt, if she’s just a crazy person and is taking points away from a pool towards their grade for not using her phrasing, then yes, it is completely inappropriate

Out of curiosity, what level of English teacher is this? What grade is your daughter in?
I would like to second @Likeradar‘s request to let us know how this pans out! Good luck!

Maybe her mother never stopped talking to her that way:

“Mommy doesn’t like it when you do that.”
“Do you want Mommy to help you?”
“Give it to Mommy.”

Ugh, I never did that even once, and I can’t stand to hear it.

As a teacher, I also agree with @MissAusten and @Beta_Orionis that you speak with her first. I know in our district, the principal will not discuss an issue with a parent in most cases unless they have spoken with the teacher directly. That being said, I do not by any means wish to excuse her behavior. People like this woman are the reason that so many people have little respect for educators.

@zephyr826 just for my own curiosity, how do you see that conversation going down? In my mind, it starts with “Is it true that you tell your students they have to talk about themselves in the 3rd person only?”, followed by either “Yes” or “No”. If it’s No, okay, let’s figure out why the kid thinks this is true. If it’s Yes…. then what? If you’re the parent in that situation, how do you continue the conversation from there? Do you argue the point with her? I personally can’t see myself arguing why it’s incorrect to use the 3rd person when talking about oneself, especially not with a supposed English teacher. If I was the parent in question, I would at that point get up, leave the room, and make my way to the principal/superintendent/school-board/whatever.

Go to the teacher and say: “Sarah’s mother does not like the way you teach her daughter English”.
Maybe then she’ll see how stupid this is.

This is what happens when teachers are allowed to have tenure*. You can make learning interesting, that should be a requirement, but this sounds like a power trip. Either teach kids right, or get a job as a garbageman.

*waits for the wrath of the teachers on Fluther to come down on my head.

@evelyns_pet_zebra Not understanding where that came from. For all you know, this is this teacher’s first year teaching. She could be a 22 year old idiot, not necessarily a 60 year old idiot.

My point was that many parents model this exact speech pattern when speaking to their children. Obviously not anyone here who said that’s a crazy way to teach English.

Does that make sense to me? No, because it’s not correct. What I find entertaining is that when these kids get older, their teachers are going to completely reverse the rules. It’s stupid to keep the kids ignorant and then be shocked by the changes. I think you should complain. I probably would.

Like you, I’m sure other parents find it odd and have complained as well, so safety in numbers is a good thing. I would ask to have a conference with the teacher and not wait until parent/teacher night you never get enough time. I mean didn’t we all have that one crazy English teacher, I had one that didn’t believe in grades in High School, ok if you think about it but not so much if you really do what is anything based on for college.

Perhaps the teacher is doing it in the first week or two to learn all the kids’ names? Or perhaps, as others’ have said, the teacher is trying to make an eventual point. There is no point is being uberconfrontational. Talking to the teacher and discussing what are the goals of the approach makes a lot more sense.

@shilolo The learning the name thing is the 1st thing that came to mind. I am a little less subtle. I don’t fill in the seating chart for the 1st 10 days so I am liable to call on “hat boy” or “talkie girl” the 1st week.

The 3rd person thing sounds slightly Victorian or Southern. So maybe they will be reading a novel that uses a similar style. That would be a very creative introduction.

At any rate by the time your child is in middle or high school, parents need to step back a little and let children experience life (safely) instead of taking every little thing as a personal affront.

I can understand only speaking French in French class, but what your kid’s teacher is doing is ridiculous. I’d talk to her and the principle if necessary.

@galileogirl when a math teacher not only A) tells a student that 2+2 = 5, but B) docks them points when they claim that 2+2 = 4, it is absolutely a parent’s responsibility to step in, call the teacher out on her mistakes, and bring it to a higher authority if the teacher continues. It is not a personal attack that the child should be mature enough to withstand. It is a teacher being simply wrong, and affecting the child’s future (yes, grades do matter).

@MrItty Do you really believe that a child exposed to a different form of speech (temporarily) will somehow incorporate that into their lexicon? I doubt it, highly. My high school economics teacher didn’t understand the tax bracket system, and taught incorrect information. Challenged on it, he was defensive, yet persisted. That didn’t alter reality, or my understanding of economics.

@willbrawn dosent like third person speek

@Facade Try talking to the principal, you won’t get a verbal response from a principle. Of course the principal has nothing else to do but sit in an office waiting for the nit pickers on parade.

@MrItty It depends if you are using base 10. Teachers are supposed to be creative but it seems like most people on this thread are assuming wrong and incompetence. I have been known to do things that if taken out of context could be misunderstood but afterwards the students tell me they remember those lessons best. It is a sad state when we are calling for excellence in education but parents seem to think they are the experts in micromanaging everything.

@MrItty I would have done the same thing as you. I’m not sure that the conversation will go well, and there is a definite possibility that the teacher will refuse to changer her position or explain it. At that point it is totally appropriate to go to the school administration. I was suggesting it as a common courtesy. I know how much I hate it when I’m called to see the principal (that sinking feeling never goes away) and I have no idea why, only to be confronted with an angry parent who has not even made an attempt to contact me.

@galileogirl I don’t know about the OP’s child’s principle, but all the ones I have dealt with are extremely involved with their students and teachers.

i would be in the principal’s office so fast….... she sounds weird.

I would talk to the teacher to find out if a) this is really what is going on, and b) there is any reasonable teaching theory behind doing this. If it is going on but the teacher is unable to present a reasonable explanation of why such a rule be enforced, then go to the administration.

At least the kids will know to what the term “3rd person” refers.

@MrItty & @galileogirl
So both my parents, my aunts, and several close friends are teachers and have been for more than a decade. After having grown up with so many teachers and having been privy to the world behind the scenes in public education over several districts, I can definitely attest to the stifling of creativity via the micromanagement of administration, which usually stems from over-reactive parents. I’ve seen simple matters turned into ridiculous nonsense so quickly and so many times that it’s obvious that hesitation and careful consideration is necessary before jumping to “She’s a psycho! Let’s go over her head!” Avoiding such a scenario is exactly why having a thorough conversation with the teacher is absolutely key.

@Beta_Orionis I have already stated that I agree that the teacher should be talked with – to ascertain whether or not the daughter’s account is accurate. If it is, however, there is NO EXCUSE for teaching students that they must use grammatically incorrect English. “Creativity” does not excuse teaching a student that the Earth is flat, 2 + 2 = 5, or that it is ever appropriate to use the 3rd person when talking about oneself.

I have decided to speak to my daughter again and make sure she is telling the truth, and if she is I will leave it up to her as to what I do next. She is a senior and making up this English 11. (or in old fashioned terms English 3). If she wants me to step in I will go speak to the teacher! I’m not angry about it, I just thought it was an unusual way to teach. Unusual does not always mean wrong! I thank you all for your input and gave lurve to one and all for your answers!

She’s a senior? I don’t know about others, but I thought she was a little child being taught English. This does put it in a different light. I think you have every right to wonder what’s up and should ask what pedagogical purpose is being served by practicing this pattern. Perhaps she could identify the item in your state’s Framework that this exercise is fulfilling. But she is not interfering with your daughter’s language aqcuisition process.

I thought she was a child too…

@ShanEnri, no, unusual does not always mean wrong. In this case, though, the teacher is wrong.

Your daughter, however, should be able to stand up for herself by the time she’s a senior. IMO, of course.

@Jeruba I’m not so much concerned with the “language acquisition process” as much as I am that the student is losing points on her grades for not doing the wrong thing. If a senior in Calculus class is docked points for claiming that the derivative of x^2 is 2x, because the teacher wants him to say that it’s actually 3y, I would be just as concerned.

Rottenit thinks that this is really dumb and you should complain.

Please talk to the teacher before talking to the principal if your daughter wants you to get involved. Teachers should be treated like professionals (even though some don’t act like it) and assuming she has a reasonable reason for 3rd person speak you shouldn’t immediately go over her head.

Also, as a parent you have a right to know what’s happening in your child’s classroom, even if she is a senior. Whether or not your daughter wants you to get involved, you have every right to respectfully question a teacher’s practices.

@MrItty I would imagine that conversation starting with “Is it true that you tell your students they have to talk about themselves in the 3rd person only?” followed by a “yes” or “no”, as you said. Then if it’s “no”, then that would be a reason to talk to the daughter again. If it’s “yes”, then it’s probably a “yes, because it serves this and this educational purpose”. If there’s no good reason for it, then it’s only awkward for the teacher (“yes, because I’m just that crazy”) and then you’ll have a reason to go higher. I don’t see how you wouldn’t want to talk to the teacher – how can there not be a reason?

Oh, and the answers in third person got old the second time already.

@Vincentt Just because there’s a reason in the teacher’s mind doesn’t make it okay or acceptable. She may think that 3rd person is actually correct for some reason. She may in fact be that crazy.

And frankly, people do things for no good reason all the time.

I’m assuming that you are in the U.S. States have educational curriculum standards called frameworks that set forth what students are expected to master at each grade level. Here are California’s content standards. From what I hear, teachers are pretty busy just meeting these standards (and teaching to the tests). Either what this teacher is teaching is a content standard set by the state or it isn’t. If it is, you should be able to see the applicable standard. If it isn’t, what is the purpose being served? You can ask that.

avvoooooo still thinks that @ShanEnri should request a joint conference if she feels the need for one after talking to her daughter. avvooooooo thinks that the administration should be aware of the… “teaching method.” avvooooooo thinks that there isn’t a decent reason for this to be happening, but that daughter could be exaggerating.

avvooooooo really thinks that if points are being taken away that there’s a real problem and that the teacher needs a reality check… from @ShanEnri and/or the administration. avvooooooo thinks that if points aren’t involved, its not a problem and crazypants should go along on her crazy way.

I’ve spoken to my daughter and here is our plan…She’s going to ask a few other friends if they have the same teacher and find out if she’s doing this in all her classes. Friday I will call the teacher and request a meeting and ask if there is a point to her method and if yes what! If the answer is no I will go straight to the principal and ask what can be done. My only hold up is, is she going to take her anger out on my daughter if I have to go over her head! @avvooooooo is using contractions! That will be 5 points off of @avvooooooo ‘s grade!

@ShanEnri This might sound idiotic… but is there any way to have a meeting with the teacher without telling her your last name, therefore not identifying which of her students is your daughter?

… Maybe that’s immature in addition to being idiotic. I don’t know.

@ShanEnri If she is a professional she will keep any feelings she has about your family to herself. If she doesn’t, you will need your daughter’s help in documenting any incidences.

@MrItty not idiotic or immature, but I really don’t think I could get away with that! Not sure though I will give it some thought!
@Likeradar She can’t ride the bus anymore because we had a complaint about her bus driver, and this woman drives elementary students as well, and she kept writing her up for stupid stuff like laughing too loud, or sitting with her foot in the isle. Because I am apparently the only complaining parent they will not do anything about it so I had to take her off the bus! Sometimes professionals aren’t very professional!

@ShanEnri Shi’t.

@ShanEnri i had a teacher when i was in school who wrote me up for “not eating my pizza the proper way”. You know how i did it? I folded it, because i was in the 1st grade and couldn’t hold it “the normal way”. some people are asshats to kids, pure and simple.

@eponymoushipster That’s the Italian way. As in the Italian-in-Italy way.

@avvooooooo lo’l
@eponymoushipster I think some teachers get a serious power trip going!

@eponymoushipster Seriously!?!?! I always peel the hard part of the crust off, eat that, and fold over the rest. Your teacher would have expelled me.

I had a high school journalism teacher who would dock people’s grades for sitting with their feet in the isles because -I shit you not – it would be hazardous in case of a flash flood. Some teachers are nuts.

But I truly believe most try their best and have some reason for most things they do.

It isn’t limited to teachers. I had a friend who was a civilian employee of the Navy who was written up by a very young and insecure lieutenant for “sitting in an insubordinate fashion.”

@avvooooooo well, im not italian, but whenever i have a slice, i still fold it. tastier to me.

@Likeradar amen, sister! :)

@ShanEnri avvooooooo wants her points back! avvooooooo does not want to get a bad grade! Do not make avvooooooo call the mods! avvooooooo says “So there!”

@avvooooooo ok, ok, no need to go over ShanEnri to higher authorities! Here are the 5 points ShanEnri took from awooooooo!

@ShanEnri avvooooooo says “woohoo!”

@MrItty I said nothing to the effect of “teaching improper English is creative.” The portion directed towards you is that there are definitely more questions to ask of, and dialogue to be had with, the teacher beyond “Is what my daughter says true?” Why would be an important followup question.

@Beta_Orionis And my assertion is that there is no answer to “Why?” that justifies the “yes”. So why bother asking it?

This reminds me of an English teacher I had a while back… She was absolutely horrid. I believe I failed her class because of her horrible teaching methods, and for underestimating my, and everyone else’s work.

You should definitely complain. Contact the principal if necessary.

@MrItty Are you asserting that there’s no reason to continue the conversation if she’s taking off points? (i.e. Would your first question address both whether she is enforcing the incorrect usage AND hurting the student’s grade?) In that case I partially agree with you.

If you’re only asking whether or not she is making them speak in third person, and then exiting the conversation, why and whether or not she is docking their grade for each failure to comply are the next logical questions. Even if she admits to crafting and enforcing the ridiculous policy, why wouldn’t you ask if she will consider stopping?

Hx3 thinks this is totally retarded and confusing to a student and can’t be productive for any reason.

avvooooooo thinks some people should chill out and have a cookie.

Well I spoke to the teacher and she explained that there was a misunderstanding. She is having them write in third person for formal writing lessons! She said that the size of the class, combined with the fact that they are mostly boys, she (my daughter) might have misunderstood the instructions and said she would explain everything to her Monday! Thanks to all for your input and help! I gave lurve to all!

Would you look at that… Communication works. Good job sorting that out.

I thought there might nave been a misunderstanding. You should hear what my son says his teachers have him do, as compared to what he really has to do.

@ShanEnri avvooooooo wants to know if you want a cookie. avvooooooo feels like sharing for a good job talking to the teacher. avvooooooo doesn’t share often when it comes to cookies. Though, of course, if ShanEnri has one, avvooooooo will have to join her!

@avvooooooo ShanEnri has cookies would awoooooooo come join?

@ShanEnri avvooooooo LOVES cookie! avvooooooo gets called “cookie monster.” avvooooooo would love to come join!

@MrItty Still, you won’t know until you’ve talked to the teacher in question whether the reason, if any, was OK or not, so that still does not justify not talking to her. And I’m glad that’s what @ShanEnri did, because indeed there was a simple explanation. Going to the principal immediately would have been pretty awkward :)

I guess using smileys will especially cost me points…

@Vincentt
1) Yes, I will know before talking to the teacher if the reason was “ok” or not. It’s not. As I’ve said many times now, there is NO reason that is okay. Nothing she could say would justify taking off points for not speaking English incorrectly.
2) Please point to the post in which I advocated not speaking to the teacher.
3) This is issue has been settled, why are you still arguing it?

@Vincentt Have a cookie.

@MrItty

1) You can’t possibly think of all reasons one could have, and for all you know, one of the reasons you can’t think of is a good reason.
2) You didn’t, but you suggested that talking to the teacher couldn’t lead to anything good.
3) I don’t like leaving a discussion open-ended, and I only visited Fluther now, after the issue itself had been settled. If you don’t want to discuss it further, that’s fine with me too, I just thought it impolite to not reply.

@avvooooooo Hmm, cookies…

@Vincentt
1) No. That is simply not true. There is no reason, none, that justifies deducting points from a student’s grade for failing to use English incorrectly. NONE.
2) I suggested talking to the teacher to make sure the child’s assertion was correct. Which is precisely what happened here. The kid was wrong. If the kid had been right, no, there wouldn’t have been any reason to continue the conversation.
3) Well I’m done with it, because I’ve now repeated myself about a dozen times. If you want to keep going, you’re talking to yourself. Bye.

@MrItty Have a cookie.

@avvooooooo bumping the thread up days after it was last written in adds to the problem. Your cutsie little posts do nothing to help anyone.

Talking like Elmo is cute for about 10 minutes, but is extremely unproductive in the long run for kids learning all the intricacies of the English language. That teacher should be fined for her methods.

Sigh. If you all would just read the thread, you would find out that the daughter misunderstood what the teacher was requiring completely (as is often the case when kids come home saying their teacher wants them to do something silly or stupid).

As the OP said:

“Well I spoke to the teacher and she explained that there was a misunderstanding. She is having them write in third person for formal writing lessons! She said that the size of the class, combined with the fact that they are mostly boys, she (my daughter) might have misunderstood the instructions and said she would explain everything to her Monday! Thanks to all for your input and help! I gave lurve to all!”

So stop fighting over nothing and have a cookie.

Yes I thank everyone for their advice and input but the problem has been resolved and there was not even a problem to begin with just a misunderstanding!

Um…......okay.

Please ignore my comment above. I posted it to the wrong question!

Roger that.

@MrItty Maybe you need a colonic more than a cookie. Oh, BUMP. Deal with it. Your “serious” posts didn’t do much to help anyone, at least people enjoyed mine.

[mod says] Please take personal side-discussions to PMs.