Are parents to be credited &/or blamed for their adult children's general behavior?

My psychology textbook says yes.

I raised my children to question authority, to be autonomous, to be fearless, to trust their own judgment and, on important issues, not to take anybody’s word for anything but to do their own research.

I think parents can be credited to how their adult children behave, to an extent. But definitely not fully. A child is taught how to act by other influences as well, their friends, teachers, co-workers, grandparents etc. I have two older sisters and we were all raised under the same rules and each of us went in different directions.
Are you saying that if a child was raised by rude parents they are going to be rude themselves? I have had many friends who are kind polite peoIple with no help from their parents.
I saw an interesting quote paraphrased: “If your mother or father is to blame for why you are who you are and how you’ve lived, go get them. I’ll treat them so you will get better.” Dr. Wayne Dyer Just think about it.

It’s always nature PLUS nurture. This is the truth. It’s not one or the other. There’s no such thing as the “bad seed” or completely shaping your child to be exactly how want them. Unless you keep them locked up in your basement for their entire lives.

No absolutely not. Should we lock up Jeffrey Dahmer’s parents or give Einstein’s folks credit for his theory?

Yes.credited and blamed

I’m so happy my children are well behaved.

@SheWasAll_ that is what I was going to say along those lines, we can teach them all we can but once they are in school and making friends they will follow their peers more so and learn from both their parents and peers.

You are the product of your environment. Which includes, but is not limited to, your parents’ job of raising you.

If parents were the sole factor in a person’s adult personality, well I wouldn’t have the slightest understanding of what sex was, or what drugs were, or how to drive a car. I would’ve voted McCain and would love Fox news.

No, I can’t agree. Up until a certain point, or age more specifically, yes, absolutely. Every person is an individual, though. Regardless of how someone is raised they will still turn into their own person, with a set of values (or lack thereof) all their own.

My parents didn’t raise my sister and I the best way, but we turned into pretty decent people. If we were complete products of our environment we’d probably both be alcoholics and drug addicts, not to mention completely submissive and/or abusive, and a plethora of other negatives. But we’re not, we’re nothing at all like either of our parents.

I think @Jenniehowell doesn’t have kids. What does Fluther think?

Me and my children have an agreement. I won’t take credit for their successes or blame for their mistakes.

@IBERnineD I am not saying that if a child is raised by rude parents the child will necessarily be. I think everyone learns in different ways & so it could be said that a child who has a negative experience of rude parents may decide that they should be totally opposite. I have known many a person who had an alcoholic, or womanizing parent who saw/experienced the negative in it and chose a different path for themselves. But on the same hand children who don’t learn in that way but learn by following a leader those children tend to follow in the footsteps of even negative parents. Children who don’t learn by experiencing or following but who tend to do their own thing must be guided at times into the ‘right’ direction and when they are not we see them as adults making it clear they were never reigned in as children whether it be bossiness, rudeness, disrespect, privileged sense of entitlement, narcissism etc. Additionally, as we all who have children know kids will chose to act out in one way or another as they grow and I believe that what we teach them as that occurs will be what shapes their adult behaviors in general with regards to their general patterns. Not to say that some will/won’t make mistakes along the way but that the general pattern is shaped by the parents. Not to say that there may or may not be a phase of time where our children do the exact opposite of what we taught them but that in the end they will come back to the core values and plateau their behavior.

@SeventhSense good point – I don’t think we can give Einstein’s parent’s the credit for his theory but I do think we could likely give them the credit for his work ethic and his positive methods of attempting to find the truth & answer questions he may have. I also think that had Dahmer’s parents dealt with his mental issues better via one means or another then he would have chosen a different path as an outlet for his issues. So though neither parents are to be given credit for any singular act of their child they can be given credit (in my opinion) for the overall character which is shown through behavior patterns of their children.

@MacBean You would be thinking wrong. I can be credited with co-raising one child who is now an adult and (so far) has not displayed any significant weirdness or major flaw. She has extremely high grades, is attending her first year of college on a scholarship, is mostly respectful of others etc. She has one (what I may call) significant negative pattern in that she bullies people through a form of intellectual elitism that is often insulting to the receiver, or that is manipulative of authority figures who cannot match her intellect. I often do the same myself so it is of no surprise to me that she has a similar behavior. (btw – that is not to say that I think either of us are the end all be all of intellect – just that we are not so diplomatic of those who don’t match our own) This is something I myself am working on and something that I’m sure will affect her as she moves through life just as it has me & therefore I must take part in the blame for that behavior in her. Once she realizes the cause of it (partly me) then it is her job to fix it instead of whining and making excuses so depending on the moment in time we are speaking of I feel I am definitely to blame for that behavior in her.

@Jenniehowell if everyone learns in different ways like you said, then you can’t apply a flat statement on how people behave.
Would you allow your child to blame you if they kicked a kid at school or even at 30 if they said something rude to someone at a bar? I believe there is a time when a person needs to take responsibility for the way they treat others. Whether or not they were raised “correctly.” But believing their behavior is solely dependent on how their parents raised them is ridiculous.

@Jenniehowell By your logic regarding the Einstein-Dahmer post, you shouldn’t hold Kanye’s parents responsible for his single act at the VMAs. And to quote a favorite book of mine (101 People You Won’t Meet In Heaven) “Early Influences: a double-hernia operation when he was 4 years old traumatized him deeply because it wasn’t explained to him why strangers in white coats were touching his naked body [he believed his gentiles had been cut off]...He also had been abused by an older boy when he was eight…” Also, get a copy of “How to Make a Serial Killer”, there’s an entire chapter about Dahmer and how other events, not just his parents, shaped him into the person (and killer) he was. Here’s a few of his “FBI High Risk Factors”: Alcohol and drug abuse, sexual problems, physical abuse [outside the family], treated unfairly [also outside the family].

@IBERnineD I agree – I don’t think a parent can take sole responsibility for every action of their child but for the overall patterns of their character yes. I believe that our parents through teachings/experience/helping us deal with outside experiences give us our general lessons etc. and perhaps at some point can be blamed to one extent or another but once we are adults we have the task of experiencing life for ourselves and figuring out what doesn’t work or what has a bad effect etc. Once we have the ability to recognize the cause of our negative behaviors it is then our own fault if we continue them. The initial behavior may be the fault of a parent to a certain extent but how we deal with it as adults is our own responsibility. I feel like it goes both ways but ultimately our parents help us with the skills on how to deal with things in general.

@SheWasAll_ I don’t hold his parents responsible for that single act. He has a pattern of acting out in live public venues and upstaging/using the setting to fight his battles and make his points in many cases at the disrespectful expense of others. This is not the first time. If it were I would be more inclined to say he just had a screwed up moment where he acted out of order. Though many things shape us those who are our guardians are the main figures who help us deal with those various events. Had Dahmer’s parents been more skilled then he may have behaved differently in reaction to his issues. All those FBI high risk factors you list are things parents can/should give guidance on in a way that fits your intellect and learning patterns.

I think the older a person gets, the less their parents can be blamed because they’ve had increasingly more exposure to other environments. However, there are a lot of behaviors that do stem from childhood experiences… but adults have a lot more responsibility for their actions than children. They’re supposed to be more mature (not always though, as in Kanye’s case) and they’ve had longer to regroup and make their own decisions.

@BBSDTfamily I have to agree now that I think of it – I am 34 and still have particular patterns that can be blamed/credited to my parents but as I grow older and actively work on becoming the best me I can be (a value my parents taught me) I find that I am repairing the issues/baggage my parents put on me and moving in my own direction for the better I hope (at least it seems that way as I go along). I think at the same time though not everyone takes an active role in making life changes so in a sense those who don’t are still walking in those patterns their parents helped them build. Do you think?

@Jenniehowell Yes, if parents raise children correctly they will know how to act, but you can’t blame their parent if the child chooses to act out anyway. We all have free will here.

@Jenniehowell
You said, “I believe that our parents…give us our general lessons etc. and perhaps at some point can be blamed to one extent or another but once we are adults we have the task of experiencing life for ourselves and figuring out what doesn’t work or what has a bad effect etc.”

So, your question, “Are parents to be credited &/or blamed for their adult children’s general behavior?” can be answered with, “To one extent or another, but not entirely”

@Jenniehowell Yes I agree completely. Some people just end up agreeing with their parents, either out of deep respect for their parent’s opinions or just because life brings them back to that way.

not if you can’t blame the parent’s parent’s parent’s parent’s parent’s parent’s parents’s… (at least according to psychological studies).

Studies have shown that a great portion of behavior is actually passed from the parents to the children – but in a different way than one might assume.

Studies on identical twins reared apart have shown very striking similarities in behavior, suggesting the influence of genes rather than environment (conversely, in one case, one twin was raised by Jewish parents, while the other was raised by Nazis, and the correlation between their behaviors was still incredible).

Not that I agree with this completely (I think environmental influences play a much larger role than these scientists seem to claim), but this is a common expert opinion.

So, the way that you mean it, no.

here is the wikipedia article on that study, by the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_study

This is an interesting discussion on how Jim Fallon (a Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, and Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience) looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain.

@BBSDTfamily if a child “chooses” to act negatively can’t it be said that is a weakness that our parents should have seen & repaired in us? Though there is no such thing as a perfect parent I think it could be argued that it is the parent’s job to figure out 1— the best learning method for the child to absorb lessons & 2— to pay attention to detail with regards to the child’s behavior in order to remedy any weakness and basically cut it off at the pass. (of course there is more to the list like food, shelter etc. but for the purpose of this discussion I’ve left the rest of the list out)

@IBERnineD makes sense “to one extent or another” I’m leaning toward the answer @BBSDTfamily gave earlier. As we grow older we grow into our own (if we are working on ourselves & conscious of what is going on in our lives anyway) so therefore I think on some sort of statistical level there could be a formula of age 25=X% parent blame; age 35=X% etc. (of course that formula would only be accurate “to one extent or another” LOL)

@Jenniehowell then I guess we can both agree that we can’t fully blame Kanye’s mother for the way he behaves since he has obviously had a multitude of experiences which have helped shape him. If he was six I would blame his mother.

@Jenniehowell Here’s the thing: They did. Another quote: “His childhood was loving and seemingly normal.” And another: “The Dahmers usually sat down for dinner together and at ten years old, Jeffrey turned to his father one evening and asked him what would happen if the chicken bones…were to be dropped in bleach…thinking that this was commendable scientific curiosity, it made [his father] happy to see Jeffrey show such initiative.” And one more: “Several authorities on this case suggest that if Jeffrey had not turned to alcohol he may have become an achiever like his father.”
Also, if we blamed/credited parents for their children’s behavior, the courts wouldn’t be so full and neither would our prisons (at least not the juvenile centers).

@IBERnineD LOL at the ‘if he were six’ comment. I agree it is a mix of Kanye’s mother and Kanye all by himself but being that he is (i think) in his early 20s I would lay the majority of it on his mother as she had him till 18 or so & his individualism is hardly any more than a little sprout of who he is.

He quite often says intelligent things but in the wrong places at the wrong time. One day perhaps he will learn timing but I honestly think his mother didn’t teach him well enough the lesson of right timing with regards to saying things. Quite often I see adults behaving like him who when they were children were permitted to participate in adult conversations at an inappropriate level compared to their maturity/age or who were permitted to interrupt their parents when they were on the phone or in conversation with adults etc. without consequence.

@SheWasAll_ many a parent, married couple, or family appear by all accounts ‘normal’ until something happens. Every single story on the news where something weird happens has people being interviewed on the news saying something like…“Ole Bob was a great neighbor, respected his wife, kept the yard groomed, fed his kids – I would never have thought he’d be capable of such an offense as this….” All that means is one or both of two things 1— they are good at keeping their dirty business private or 2— they are normal enough to be in clueless and in denial of the signs when they popped up to the point they’re surprised when something like cannibalism or serial killerisms pop up. Dahmer’s parent’s obviously weren’t skilled enough to notice the signs of his leanings or they’d have guided him in a different direction or gotten him help etc. The fact that he turned to alcohol in the first place is an indication of parental failure to some extent. Had his weaknesses been caught and repaired in the growing years, he wouldn’t have turned to alcohol and even if he did however drunk he was he wouldn’t have felt it ok to attempt to have his fellow humans for dinner.

Here’s a little fun fact:

The Spanish language says yes.

The Spanish word for “brat” is “malcriado”, literally meaning “one who was poorly raised”.

@Jenniehowell “Dahmer’s parent’s obviously weren’t skilled enough to notice the signs of his leanings or they’d have guided him in a different direction or gotten him help etc.”

… Really? I mean, seriously? The reason serial killers are able to kill multiple people is due to the fact that they’re generally good (in the beginning) at hiding their flaws. Why do you think, in so many cases, it takes the cops so long to find these people? Serial killers are often friendly, social, easy to talk to and get along with. Maybe there were signs, maybe there weren’t. I don’t think it’s fair for you, not being in the situation yourself, to assume that his parents were “skilled enough” to notice something. There may not have been any signs at first.

@DrasticDreamer Exactly. e.g. Ted Bundy.

Guys. Come on. We’ve gotta stop questioning @Jenniehowell‘s expertise here. After all, she helped raise an intellectual bully a perfect child.

Well, yes, to a certain extend. 35% credit/blame ?

I’d say it’s the opposite of what your friend says, thought it’s hard to notice. It’s not that we bring up our children one way and then they deviate later. It’s that our children have certain traits to start with (eg a tendency to become a serial killer) which we as parents can control for a couple of decades. If we do a really good job, we might actually mould the child and turn that trait into something positive (instead of chopping people up with an axe, a child who likes blood could become a doctor, a butcher or a microbiologist). In instances where we fail to do that, some other event (eg rejection) could trigger the unwanted personality trait.

@Jack79 True. You never know what a trauma does to a person, if there is one, even with good parenting.

You are right, an adult must take responsibility of his/her own actions. You can’t blame the mother for what an adult man does, but you can trace the origins of many of his personal traits there I guess. There is a butterfly-effect from how a child is raised to what he does when he is all grown up, but the mistakes are his and only his, just as the success.

Rambling over.

@DrasticDreamer every parent knows certian irregularities in their children – if anyone should notice an oddity first it is the parent – after that comes the hard part if what to do or not do about it once it’s recognized

@MacBean obviously you’re more interested on distributing insults than actually taking part in the discussion. Had I mentioned no flaw in myself or my child you’d have likely latched upon that & criticized me for being one of those deluded parents who thinks they & their child are perfect. If you have something aside from your own bullying to offer I’m up for a discussion. Me mentioning flaws & working on them is not a bad thing in fact the opposite – am I perfect? Obviously not but I raised the question to debate & learn not so I could bully those in the discussions. I get your point but really it is mute considering you are doing the exact thing which you sarcasticly criticize me for in your (lack of) answer & additionally mute because I make my own point which is that a good & skilled parent recognizes their flaws & remediates it in themselves & their children – it would be nice if you participated in the discussion with an actual answer that doesn’t include puproseful taunting.

@mattbrowne again you create a comment to smile about – thanks

@Jack79 & @oratio I agree that trauma does something to a person but will add that I think it’s the parents responsibility to notice the damage & work to repair it within the time frame they have left. If the trauma happens in the childs adulthood & they react negatively in what becomes a clear negative pattern then the parent didn’t quite get the message of how to cope across to the child or they would cope more positively. Just my opinion – i’m of course willing to learn/change that but I’m not sure I can be significantly swayed in giving the failure of basic coping, living, respect skills etc directly to our parents. Specific actions no but basic character yes.

@Jenniehowell Kanye West is actually 31 years old. And I doubt his mother Dr. Donda West, who was a Professor of English at Clark Atlanta University, and the Chair of the English Department at Chicago State University didn’t “raise him correctly”, may she rest in peace. I don’t see how it is so far fetched that his involvement in trying to make it in the rap/hip-hop world could effect his character or attitude. And has it ever crossed your mind that this could be a persona? Children and adults have an ability to make decisions and who they meet and what they do in life has a part in molding their character.

When my kids were out of control teenagers I finly found peace with myself when I accepted that they were they’re own people, making their own choices.
I think my acceptance of that and acknowledging their autonomy was freeing for both my kids and for me.
Did I have an influence on them? Of course I did, but ultimatley THEY decided which of those influences they would choose to internalize and which ones they would reject.

@Jenniehowell Well, first of all, I think you think my point is “moot,” not “mute.” And I was very interested in taking part in the discussion until I read what you had to say, thought it was ridiculous, and gathered from your following replies to other people that anything I had to say would be met with stubborn support of fuzzy logic, at which point I just became annoyed.

@Jenniehowell I agree that to a certain extent parents can be held responsible for their young childrens’ behaviors but not for an adult’s decisions and actions. do you think my 83 year old grandfather should get the credit for my 52 year old father’s success? The reason I’ve been posting these quotes was to hint at the idea of researching the subject for yourself. Those comments were meant to educate you, to give you the chance to make an informed opinion before you state your side of the argument. Therefore, if you aren’t going to let my little knowledge seeds settle and grow, then this debate is futile.

Children are a product of their parents. Parents instill values, norms and behaviors in their children. Indeed, a 5 year old’s behavior is the responsibility of the parents, and what that 5 year old learns is a result of the parents. But once an individual reaches a certain age, an age where they are aware of the consequences of their behavior and that they can choose otherwise, it is up to each individual to stop blaming their parents (no matter how hideous they were) and own up to the person that they are. An adult is responsible for their own life, but a child is not, as sooo many parents here like to point out.

My feeling is that parents only make a difference in extreme cases, as when children are abused. Both nature and environment are important, but the question is, how big an environmental factor are the parents? There will obviously be a big difference between someone raised among hunter-gatherers and someone raised in an industrialized nation. Within a given nation or city, how much of a difference to parents make? I don’t think that they make that much of a difference.

@IBERnineD thanks for the age clarification on Kanye – I wasn’t sure & I was thinking he was 24 going on 12. The fact is that often times what he says is the truth it’s just the time and place in which he chooses to say it that shows his true character. It is easy to see that regardless of his mother’s education level she missed out on a few character lessons. He has a pattern of behaving like a spoiled momma’s boy so….

@MacBean thanks – I am all for having spirited debate in general regardless the topic as that is the way I learn things most successfully. I will not hold back from stating my thoughts and opinions however stupid they are depending on the day, but at the same time I don’t think a person who is afraid to say their stuff really gets much of anywhere of depth when trying to work on themselves. I’m all for someone saying ‘your idea or thought is stupid because….’ rather than just finding pleasure in insulting me. I generally have become the best of friends with those who have debated with me & felt fine with telling me where the flaw in my point of view is. So though I will come back at you with statements which continue to annoy you, I am actually listening and processing what you say and taking time to think about it. Doesn’t mean I’ll change my mind just that I’m giving respect enough to the person to consider it.

@SheWasAll I don’t think your 83 year old grandparent can be credited with the success of your 52 year old parent but I do think they can be proud in knowing that they were in large part an influence in teaching a particular work ethic to your father. What your father chooses to do with his life (ie. actions) is not credited to anyone but your father but the manner in which he takes those actions (ie. values) can be credited in large part to his parents (if they had the significant parent role in his life). Kanye’s mom can’t be blamed for him snatching mics, and talking out of order etc. but she can be blamed for the values that makes him feel so much better than everyone else that he feels like it’s ok to continually do that sort of thing.

@tinyfaery I agree completely with you. I personally feel like once you are an adult it is your job to take care of business & if you can recognize the cause of a negative pattern in your life then you ought to be able to resolve it instead of whining about the cause. At the same time though all I am saying is that particular values taught to us in our younger years stick with us through both the good and bad that we do. Poor kids may have different baggage around money issues than rich kids, some kids are taught a particular work ethic while others are taught that servants should do the work, others are taught to respect everyone and still some to respect only elders etc. These things stay with us in the end through all of the intelligent and unintelligent things we do. That is why (however odd it seems) we hear phrases like “honor among thieves” etc.; it’s why there are separate prison quarters for child molesters and the rest because for whatever reason even though a guy may be a murderer or a rapist he knows better than to do it to a child. Seems twisted but those values missing and present shape how we behave within our peer groups however bad or good our peer groups may be & however good our bad our actions may be. It is the general values I am speaking of – not the actions.

“we raise children up in the way we want them to be but they don’t always go in that direction once on their own.” <——i agree.

you absolutely are influenced by the folks who raise you, but that doesn’t mean everything you do stems back to them. there are a million outside influences. and then, you know, people usually come with their own brains.

@Jenniehowell I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

@Jenniehowell
In no way can we make generalizations about a person from his genetics, upbringing or environment alone. Surely genetics and environment both play a role and there are well intentioned parents. As mentioned above, nature and nurture both play a role and varying degrees of each. The manifestation of personality and choices are almost infinite in any one persons life. Chance and accident also play a role.

As per Jeffrey Dahmer, he seemed like the most gentle and non violent person one could imagine. In retrospect hindsight is always 20/20 but that’s hindsight. Even the great Sherlock Holmes pieced together events after their occurrence.

There was of course a failed “scientific insight” into predicting behavior of individuals based on genetic predisposition. It was called Eugenics. And the greatest proponents were ironically sociopaths themselves.

@SeventhSense please go further with your statement – I’m interested in knowing more.

I agree we can’t predict a persons ultimate behavior, also I agree that there are many more factors than just a good/bad/average parent figure. What I’m saying is that I believe in each case where there is a participatory parent figure who wants & tries to teach their child good values from birth to emancipation the parent has the final (or perhaps I should say not final but most significant) role in instilling those good values. As the child grows they notice the skills, intelligence level, & best learning methods for their child & they move thru life teaching. As life goes along (as they always do) other factors come into play. Race, religion, sexual orientation, physical appearance & stature, poverty, luxury, occasional abuse by authority figures, peer influence, bullying, books, the media etc. The list goes on with outside influences. It is my belief that as these things occur it is the parents job/duty to to remain always aware & investigative of these things & insert life lessons as needed to guide the child in the desired direction with regards to character & value. I believe that if this is not done it is a failure on the part of the guardian. Additionally, I realize that because no one is perfect on every level that it means no parent has succeeded in this endeavor. I realize that my definition makes it impossible fir any parent to completely succeed outside of a rare miracle. I don’t think that the impossibility however gives the parent a free pass to say “but it wasn’t just me, there were all these outside influences so…..” however many outside factors the unfortunate plight of a parent is that it all falls back on you. & that is why it is such a thankless yet important job. How we teach our children to cope is what shapes our world with it’s Hitlers & Cheneys it’s Gandhis & Buddhas it’s abusive corporate execs & insurance execs who think profit supercedes the ethical treatment of others, the socialists, the communists etc.

Please add your insight to my point of view – I am definitely interested in how it all applies in the end. I’m not trying to challenge you I am just not completely absorbing your full point as it applies to my point of view/perception.

Certainly parents have a strong influence, but experience plays a big role in a person’s behavior, too. I think that as people grow older, the influence of their parents on specific behaviors grows smaller, while the impact on overall tendencies can remain strong, even if it is at the unconscious level.

However, experience has a big impact on a person. What is the impact of mental illness or another serious illness? What is the impact of fame and wealth? What is the impact of power on a person? What is the impact of discrimination or righteousness? What is the impact of a job? Of friends? Of circumstances? Of poverty? Of education?

You are a new person every day, and the relationship between the person you are now and the person you were when you were twelve grows weaker each day. At 34, you can’t blame Kanye’s behavior on his mother. It is not an example of not being properly raised. If he hasn’t learned how to be polite by now, he just hasn’t been paying attention. That’s on him.

I think that as parents of young children, we are pleased when other people compliment us on the behavior of our children. As our children become teens, and start to pull away from us, we have to recognize that our influence is lessening. With each year that passes, our influence grows lighter. It never goes to nothing, but it soon diminishes to a point where one can have no responsibility for the way a child behaves in any individual interaction.

When people go wrong, there is a tendency to blame the parents for not bringing the kids up properly. People who do wrong often complain they were brought up in a broken household. They had no role models. No one ever told them right from wrong. They plead ignorance or even training in the wrong values.

If someone displays a feeling of a lack of control over their life, I think that can be explained by parental attitudes in combination with circumstances. However, many people “rise above” such things and turn into admirable people. Should that be blamed on parenting, too?

Most people like to share responsibility for who they are and what they accomplish with their parents. Parental support and guidance is important. I’m sure we all see traces of our parents in our own behavior and thinking. But it’s just a starting point, and so much else informs our behavior that has been laid on top of parental influence.

Are core values and personality traits more the responsibility of parents? Perhaps. Are individual actions the result of parenting? Probably not. What is the impact of core values and personality on specific behaviors? 90%? 10%? 25% 50%? What is the impact of parenting on core values and personality? 90%? 10%? 25% 50%? What is the impact of age? Environment? You do the math.

People make mistakes. People get tired or have instances of bad judgment. People have experiences that make them feel more entitled or less entitled as they grow older. You may want to explain a person’s behavior by the kind of background they had, but you do that at your peril.

@Jenniehowell
The implications and permutations are almost endless. I think we like to imagine that the effect we have over the behavior of others is quantifiable and predictable. I do think that there are some parents who have a particular approach towards life which may positively affect the lives of their children but the ramifications of choices are too complex to accurately predict. This like all things is neither black or white-nurture or nature. There is no such clear division. Now one needs to consider a fourth element-that is, societies mores and systems of thought. So we have four components-1.Parent 2.Child 3.Environment-immediate community and 4.Societies systems of thought behavior and morals and the subjective response to same. The response to the latter which can either be supported or opposed by the family of origin and the subjective response of the child.

We all believe we have perfect efficacy. To some it’s dis-empowering to imagine otherwise. For example, American society seems to have the idea that we can change human behavior by greater incarceration and the end result is an ever escalating spiral of violence and increasing prison populations. The US imagines that by larger and larger military build ups the nation can forestall all attacks yet the end result is that rogue attacks and ever perverse forms of aggression perpetuate.

It’s pure insanity when as a society the US claims to love life and defend the sanctity of life and yet spends billions to kill millions in blind rage. And yet when challenged to support the life and health of our most defenseless some vigorously protest as too costly and unworthy.

Some of other countries are challenged to blow themselves up in an apparent protest at injustice. Some drive planes into buildings. But in a world which states that human life is collateral and the enemy is disposable, then how can one say that he who takes out multiple lives by sacrificing his own life is anything other than a roaring success? And maybe that is the only predictability, that we can expect the ever increasing bizarre. In this world there is no predictability and no clear solution except the decision to opt out or exhibit Crazy Wisdom as Chogyam Trungpa would have espoused. But this is only had by completely waking up and can not be taught. But yes it can be modeled by a good parent.

People will act, based on a model of the world they believe in but the model itself is highly questionable. Especially the American way of life. I.E.- Life is important, except when it’s not, create world peace by killing those who stand in the way of your inequitable gain, spend what you don’t have, except when the cause is too meaningful and helpful, subjugate others so they recognize freedom, judge the world for destroying the environment but refuse to participate in the solution of capping emissions and finally pretend that you’re really not doing any of this when confronted. Pure insanity…

So when the logic of the world logically leads towards insanity then the systems are the true culprit. So maybe the parent who leads their child to relinquish the attraction or attachment to the world is the best. There are such places- Quakers and simple communities. The problem is we deride them as backwards when they are actually quite content and very happy. The parents of the Quaker children who forgave the man whom killed their children in the class room were good parents. They lived by a code with a vision for the future. They recognized a sick and suffering individual from the “modern world” as sick and suffering. They grieved for the loss of their own but they did not allow the cancer to infect their community through bitterness and revenge. Now imagine the ancient feud of Israel and the Arab world may have had such “humble” origins. But it only takes a small flame to create an inferno and yet how easy to extinguish when it’s just a spark. So these parents were very important to their families, communities and greater society and exhibited true efficacy in the lives of the next generation and amazing character and love. These were excellent role models.
We can perhaps use these models to reflect, find the beneficial and have dialectic to find sustainable visions for all of humanity. There are only solutions.