Is there any hope for our hygenically challenged, overweight friend?

Why do assume a lack of hygiene? Other things can cause BO

Chances are he knows. Hygiene issues are about cleaning properly, but poor hygiene can also be a result of depression.

Man, that’s hard. Does he have a doctor?

The hygiene problems are directly related to the weight, and cannot really be resolved until he resolves the weight issues. (His body folds are trapping moisture and bacteria)

He sounds like a good candidate for laparascopic bariatric surgery, preferably, roux en y.

In cases like his (morbid obesity) insurance companies prefer to fund the surgery, because it is actually a cut-loss program for them in terms of future health issue.

Be frank. He know he’s fat, he needs your support and encouragement. He sounds like a lovely man, someone you don’t want to lose because of an untimely death.

The only thing he needs is tolerant, empathetic friends. In fact, that’s all any of us needs.

I have a similar issue with a friend of mine. Poor girl. <follows>

If he it smells like he is trying to mask it with cologne, then he knows. He probably has a yeast infection under his folds of skin that is making the bad smell. I don’t know how you could tell him with out potentially hurting his feelings, but if you approached him with love and told him the cologne isn’t cutting it, he would probably thank you in the end.

If you care for this person, you should say something. I’d think of a way to have a kind yet honest heart to heart with him, first about his health. There is no doubt he is at serious risk for some life-threatening conditions. If you wait and don’t say anything, and something were to happen to him God forbid you would feel awful.

@tinyfaery : It could be both now that you mention it. Though, I think his cleaning habits are a big part of it. My husband helped him move and said his shower was (gulp) black with filth and mildew. He also doesn’t do laundry often. There are piles in his house and car. I probably should’ve mentioned this. I doubt he sees a doctor.

@pdworkin : I wish I knew how to be frank. I mean, I have to just find the courage. You’re right- we don’t want to lose him.

Should it be an intervention style thing? Should it be my husband who does the talking, or would it be better if I do it so as to not risk my husband and his friendship?

It should probably be your husband that talks to him, like man to man. Having a lady talk to him about it would probably make the whole embarrassing situation worse.

Maybe you can encourage him to see a doctor, for his health. Tell him you are worried about him and don’t like seeing him so unhappy. A doctor can encourage better habits, and maybe even offer some other sort of help.

@knitfroggy : Good point.

He might have a fungal infection. This happens to people who have folds of skin from weight and sometimes women get it under sagging breasts. I would assume you could use something like Lotrisome or Nystatin cream??? The problem is people who are very heavy many times can not reach all parts of their bodies. Could be a bacterial infection also, and then those creams would not be effective.

I have a friend in a similar situation. He is a wonderful guy with a great personality, he doesn’t have any hygiene issues, but he is just so large it really puts people off. I feel bad because very few people recognize him for the totally cool guy that he is. I really wish I had some brilliant advice, and I really hope someone provides some!

I also had a very large friend who was cursed with a bad body odor. His was due to genetics (specifically trimethylaminuria), and his weight was a result of life-long avoidance of social situations because of the smell.

You might approach your friend about seeing a doctor because bad body odor can also be an indication of other things besides poor hygiene. Diabetes, and serious liver or kidney disease can all cause body odor problems, as well as the fungal and bacterial infections mentioned by others. Many of the causes are listed here.

If you can show your friend that you are concerned for his health he may be more amenable to your help.

I think you have received great answers so far about what is causing the smell. I thought I’d answer the part of the question that asks “is this our place?”. My answer is always yes. He is your dear friend and he is like a member of your family. It is always our responsibility to at least try and help out our friends and family. If they refuse help then it becomes an honest choice, pursue or not.

If you know a local counselor who you can talk with they are very great at posing options and exploring ways of sensitively dealing with such issues. I mean for you to go to them and ask them how they’d go about dealing with this issue with a friend.

I agree also with @knitfroggy that having just men deal with the issue would probably be more sensitive.

Another idea is somehow to get him a caregiver who you can ask to bring the issue up. You could talk with his doctor (who can’t give you information in return), or get him a home caregiver for a week as a friendly gesture, or something else along this line.

And one more option is to send him some information, like the information that @pdworkin gave. You can send it in the mail or email anonymously.

http://www.bodymint.com/
Hope this isn’t too Trollish, I have no affiliation to the company.

A long-handled shower brush can help out with hard-to-reach spots like the middle of your back, especially if you don’t bend and twist easily.

There are also powders that can work better than creams in treating areas that are hard to keep dry.

I’d advise against sending anything anonymously.

What has his family said or done? Perhaps you can all have a chat with him together. He’s an adult and responsible for his own feelings, especially when someone tells him the truth about himself. He has a choice as to what to do with the information you give him, even though if he’s depressed, understandably, it will be hard for him to act on it, but he must be encouraged to try for his own good. Perhaps for him, seeing a counselor is a doable first step.

I think you hit the target when you said he isn’t well groomed. I think that would do wonders. Then the question is how do you tell him that which I can’t answer besides being bold with him.

You could be describing my Dad to a “T”. He received a package of deodorant in the mail wrapped as a Christmas present, and Mom told him it was a hint, but he didn’t believe it. Then his supervisor told him that several other employees had mentioned that they were worried because he had the symptoms of a possible serious medical problem – namely a bad odor – and Dad realized that it sounded like something he should see the doctor about.

He was diagnosed and treated for diabetes, and his health improved.

@YARNLADY He was diagnosed and treated for diabetes, and his health improved.

????

How does diabetes cause BO? I am diabetic (Type 2 – a reaction to Prednisone treatment) and mix with many diabetics but have never found one with BO that could in any way be attributed to diabetes.

Fortunate that he was diagnosed but it would seem to be coincidental.

People that smell bad oftentimes don’t know it, how else could they without someone telling them. I speak from personal experience.

Diabetes is a know cause of body odor

Every nice, kind hearted bus drive in his polyester sweater can stink up a bus in no time.

now ima confused. isa no cause of body odor, or isa yes cause of body odor

@YARNLADY Diabetes is a know cause of body odor

Many of those link refer to ketosis which is to do with a smell on the breath of many poorly managed diabetics, not BO. None of the diabetic associations list body odor as a standard symptom.

I see Darkscribe is splitting hairs again. Last time I checked, the mouth and therefore the breath that comes out of it are part of the Body (Odor).

A few q’s: has he always been a big guy or did he gain the weight at a point in time in his life? Sometimes events can side track people and before they even realize it, they are overweight. A few pounds can lead to alot if they start feeling depressed. Perhaps finding a website (there are some) that you can submit his photo now and they can show you what he would look like without the weight. Then give it to him. For some seeing is believing!!!

Thanks for all the advice. I don’t think I’ll suggest specific treatments, but rather just voice a concern. Unless he asks what he should do, then I may try to suggest a long handled brush. Mostly, I think he just needs to eat better, and much less. And of course, exercise will help immensely. Maybe the hygiene will follow any decisions to improve his life. He wasn’t always like this.

I talked to my husband about this last night. It’s always a major concern for him to see his friend in such a state. He said that our friend has recently bought a treadmill, but he’s not sure he’s using it yet.

There’s plenty of hope for your friend.

But honestly, he knows how large he is. And it’s pretty clear that if he’s trying to mask the odor with cologne, he knows about it.

There’s probably not much you can do to improve things for him. There are many things that he can do to improve things for himself, but the initiative to fix them has to come from him, not you.

@DarkScribe – While short-term ketosis is most noticeable in the breath, sometimes an undiagnosed diabetic can have the smell be released in sweat as well, leading to a strange, fruity, and, to some, objectionable body odor. However, diabetics whose blood sugar is under control do not emit ketones.

In addition, undiagnosed diabetics are more frequently subject to skin infections, both bacterial and fungal, that can lead to body odor, as well as other infections, such as urinary tract infections, that can also contribute to the body’s smell.

And finally, kidney disease can cause body odor, and undiagnosed diabetics can be suffering from kidney disease.

I have to admit that ketosis-related body odor to me is nowhere near as unpleasant as some of the others such as trimethylaminuria (aka fish odor syndrome), but it may be unpleasant to others. Body odor is cited as a possible warning flag of undiagnosed diabetes on many sites, including this one and this one and this one.

Consider yourself fortunate that you don’t have to worry about the body odor that results from diabetes. It means you have your blood sugar under control and your kidneys are functioning well.

Share your question with him and it will demonstrate your care and concern for him. Then go with him to the health clinic or family doctor for an “objective” assessment (and he can there talk topenly with someone not personally involved). There is a lot of shame associated with obesity. He needs to get that out, and then make a plan. You are a great friend.

@Darwin In addition, undiagnosed diabetics are more frequently subject to skin infections, both bacterial and fungal, that can lead to body odor, as well as other infections, such as urinary tract infections, that can also contribute to the body’s smell.

And finally, kidney disease can cause body odor, and undiagnosed diabetics can be suffering from kidney disease.

In other words, as I said, a bad body is not a diabetic symptom, just something occasionally associated with people who also have diabetes.

I have what is commonly referred to as “medically acquired” type 2 diabetes – a result of prolonged Prednisone treatment. I am involved with Diabetes Australia as a contributor for their magazine and am also a voluntary diabetes educator. I show how to manage blood sugar by means of diet and exercise for those who are prepared to make the effort. You can easily keep BGL in a completely normal range – mine is usually 4.7–4.2 (multiple by 18 for US). I have yet to find BO noted as a primary diabetic symptom.

@DarkScribe : We’re talking about my friend who does not see a doctor. He could be an undiagnosed diabetic as described in the definition you pasted.

@ubersiren We’re talking about my friend who does not see a doctor. He could be an undiagnosed diabetic as described in the definition you pasted.

If he is obese and not under medical care, yes he is a high risk situation with regard to diabetes. Very high risk. But the primary diabetic symptoms have nothing to do with body odour. If he is constantly thirsty, that is the one symptom that almost all diabetics experience before diagnosis. Some also have reached the stage of peripheral nerve pain and other symptoms.

I carry a BGL test kit and have often used it as a preliminary guide to check a person’s BGL. Only a fasting glucose test will be sure (outside a clinic) but consistently high BGL and slow fall-off after eating is a damn good indicator. In the time since I acquired it I have found three diabetics among my friends and family. Two of them use diet and exercise for control – as I do and now happily state that being diagnosed was the best thing that has happened – it gave them the incentive to get and stay fit.

Nobody said “primary diabetic symptoms.”

@DarkScribe – You are arguing apples and oranges here. The fact is that if someone has a severe body odor of some sort, undiagnosed diabetes is one of the causes that needs to be checked, if only to rule it out. I am not the only person who says this – doctors agree that certain body odors can be an indication that a person should be checked for how well their body controls their BGL. No it isn’t a “primary symptom” of diabetes, but it is an indication that the individual should be checked.

I am aware that you have diabetes and I am aware that you militantly control your BGL. However, you know you have diabetes, and you do control it, so you have no risk of diabetes-related body odor. Not everyone is as well-trained or disciplined as you are, nor are they all diagnosed. If this person was a friend of yours you could indeed check their blood sugar levels for him and possibly rule out diabetes as a cause.

I live in a part of the United States that has a sky-rocketing level of diabetes in part because of culturally preferred diets, in part due to genetics, and also due to lack of education leading to not having insurance and thus not seeing doctors often. In our town, if an obese person or a person with persistent body odor is seen by a doctor, one of the first things they do is attempt to rule out diabetes.

@ubersiren Nobody said “primary diabetic symptoms.”

No?

It was certainly implied. they were worried because he had the symptoms of a possible serious medical problem – namely a bad odor – and Dad realized that it sounded like something he should see the doctor about.

He was diagnosed and treated for diabetes, and his health improved.

I am only concerned in a “negative” logic way. If someone regards a bad BO as a part of diabetes, is at risk but has no BO, they might assume that they cannot possibly have diabetes and forgo tests that might be vital to them. It is not simply pedant-ism on my part.

@Darwin You are arguing apples and oranges here.

Would you like to borrow a fruit identification chart? :)

I don’t like erroneous impression regarding symptoms – see my response to ubersiren.

@DarkScribe More like too much reading between the lines, and there’s no lines even there.

@FutureMemory I see Darkscribe is splitting hairs again. Last time I checked, the mouth and therefore the breath that comes out of it are part of the Body (Odor).

Breath Odour is not body odour. That hair didn’t even need splitting – it was falling apart.

@Dark Scribe – You really should get out more. Here in South Texas, folks with long term undiagnosed diabetes do often have an unpleasant body odor due to ketones being expressed in sweat. They also often have skin conditions that can lead to unpleasant body odor, such as the above-mentioned bacterial and fungal infections.

@YARNLADY DarkScribe More like too much reading between the lines, and there’s no lines even there.

If I can see something “between the lines” then there is a good chance that others can.

We are constantly dealing with newly diagnosed diabetics who have have primary symptoms for years but ignored it because they were unclear about something that they had heard – like BO being a symptom. An amazing number of people don’t get diagnosed until they have serious peripheral pain or are even at risk of losing a foot. They had thought about diabetes from time to time but convinced themselves that they didn’t have as they didn’t meet one particular criterion that wasn’t a part of diabetic symptom. Not BO, I have never heard that before, but many simply because they didn’t have an instant bad reaction to eating sugar. There is an incredible amount of misinformation out there.

@Darwin _Dark Scribe – You really should get out more. _

I am always out – I travel constantly.

Secondary symptoms are not what I am talking about. Many type 2 diabetics are obese – obese people often smell bad. The two have no direct medical correlation. Ketone smell is not like BO, it is not as unpleasant. It is often described as a “sweet” smell. Atkin’s diet faddists strive for it.

@DarkScribe – I know precisely what ketone smell is like. Some people do indeed think it is a “bad” smell. My husband is a diabetic of long-standing, although a brittle one, and I have unfortunately smelled it on him when he didn’t take care of himself. I do it for him now so he no longer smells.

And if someone has a body odor and is overweight then they should be checked for diabetes. This is especially the case if they show any of the primary symptoms such as frequent thirst, blurred vision, acanthosis nigricans, frequent urination, unexplained weight loss, etc.

@Darwin And if someone has a body odor and is overweight then they should be checked for diabetes

You are making my point. Overweight AND BO. The risk is with being overweight.

Gaaaahhhh! Stop it!

@ubersiren Gaaaahhhh! Stop it!

Ok. Consider it stopped – anything to oblige. ;)