What should I do about my abusive brother?

I’m usually not one for physical violence, but it sounds like he needs his ass kicked.

If he’s physically attacking his mother, then it’s time for corporal punishment.

You should probably edit the title question because it might get modded….

If he really wants to go to that other school, there’s probably a reason that you don’t know about. It sounds like it’s a very important issue for him if he’s willing to threaten people physically in order to get his wish of transferring schools. Why stand in his way if this would make him happy and perhaps contribute to his long term success?

@thanatos You’re worried about making this punk happy when he’s abusing his mother?

I say beat his ass good. There’s no excuse for that type of behavior.

@Sampson

Yeah, fix violence with more violence! That’ll solve it! Emotional responses ftw!

Sounds like there’s a deeper psychological problem with this kid to me. Sounds like he has a few issues that aren’t going to be fixed by a “good old fashioned beating”. How do you know he can even be restrained? Parents act like they can beat their kids with ease. Sure, when they’re little and you can grab them and hold them down. I’m 3 inches taller than my mom. It’s not physically possible for her to beat me; I could easily combat it.

How old is he?

@thanatos His friend got in a fight just last week and moved to the school that is 10 miles away. Ever sense then, he’s been claiming that he doesn’t have any friends, even if he does. I go to the same school as he does.
He’s 15

teen angst yayyyy

@DominicX It doesn’t sound like he’s been harmed emotionally to me. Note: I read the details before the question was sent into editing

It sounded more like he has a delusion of grandeur, aka, the kid thinks he can get what he wants by bullying. No matter who it is.

Basically, I don’t believe in solving problems with violence in the vast majority of cases, but once a kid tries to physically harm his mother for telling him not to throw something breakable around, it’s time for him to be put in his place, no matter how it’s done.

@Sampson

Did I say he’s been “harmed emotionally”? I said he has mental problems. “Normal” kids don’t do stuff like that; there has to be some kind of psychological issue in order for someone to do something like that. Problems like that don’t go away with violence. It’s not that simple. And like I said additionally, some kids are stronger than their parents and will resist it.

It’s just a bunch of emotional crap with you people. You react emotionally to this question and it’s all “yeah! beating will solve it! he deserves it!”. Now I can understand why people support the death penalty. When they’ve been wronged, they want to see justice and to them, that means they want to see the murderer or whoever it is dead. Revenge.

“As soon as he physically harms someone, it’s time for him to be physically harmed”. “As soon as he kills someone, it’s time for him to be killed.” It’s the same thing; it’s nothing but revenge. Pure and simple.

@uberbatman this is another reason my decision to not procreate was a wise choice.

@DominicX I misread your answer… Allow me some time to retort, as I’m off for the night.

I’m just worried that he’ll do more than just hit my mother. He has already threatened my baby sister with killing her. And whenever she(baby sister who’s only 6) passes by him, he glares at her with killer eyes.

@cyndihugs

Yeah, he’s definitely not fucked up in the head and all his problems will definitely be fixed by corporal punishment because it really is that simple.~

I really doubt that it is that simple based on what you’re saying. It’s tempting to want to go with the more short-sighted, fun, satisfying solution of “beatin’ his sorry ass” but that is not going to solve the problem.

Obviously, no one here lives with you; no one knows what the problem really is, but it sounds like this kid is very troubled. It’s not easy to fix mental problems like that. He needs help. Your family needs help.

@DominicX are you being sarcastic?

@cyndihugs the ”~” sign is used to indicate sarcasm on Fluther.

@rabbitheart below me: GA.

It sounds like this is a situation that needs to be handled by authorities or an experienced psychiatrist. You said he’s threatening to kill a 6 year old girl, as well as physically harming your mother– he is being a danger to others, and in some cases that would be enough for a psychiatric hold for minors. If he isn’t posing immediate danger, I suggest you talk to your mother about sending him to counseling.

@DominicX Sorry, I did not catch that.

Counselors don’t do much at school, but I’ll tell her about the psychiatrist thing ASAP!

It sounds as if he has some issues, threatening to kill your sister is just wrong.
The move of his friend might have really impacted him. Either that or he needs anger management classes. But I don’t see the need of hitting him, it could just lead to bigger problems you might not want later on.
They should send him to a juvie for at least two whole days to see what he does, without visiting him there, and tell him that’s where he will end up if he keeps doing that.

I grew up with a brother like that. He was 15 years older than me and I lived in terror for myself, my dog and my parents. He threatened to kill us all so many times. He was bigger than my dad and everyone was afraid of him. My parents had him in and out of institutions and nearly went broke trying to fix him. They never wanted the police involved but when I was old enough I would call them. They came a couple of times and escorted him from the premises but my parents would never press charges so then they wouldn’t come anymore. It was a terrible situation. I wanted to kill him, I prayed he would die. Finally he found women who would take care of him and accept his abuse and moved in with them. But we never knew when he would just pop in and demand money or whatever. It was hell on earth and those who have not experienced that kind of sheer terror might get on their higher moral ground and decry physical violence but I completely understand why you would want to do it. His fury was often alcohol fueled and eventually he drank himself to death. I did not feel an ounce or remorse.

I don’t know what to tell you to do, I hid behind the sofa for a lot of years, that didn’t keep my mom safe though. I wish I could help you.

@rooeytoo

This isn’t about “higher moral ground”, it’s about being realistic and solving a problem.

Do you really think that hitting an abusive angry teenager is going to stop his behavior and not just make it worse? Do you think after his parents hit him, he’s just going to go to his room and cry about how much his butt hurts and be a changed person? No, it’s probably going to make him even angrier and he’s going to want bigtime revenge. And he’ll probably get it.

To think that’s the right thing to do is just so unbelievably short-sighted and childish. But it’s not surprising. When I hear of some killer or something on TV, I think “man I just want to see that fucking bastard fry!”. But that passes after a while. That’s just my primal emotional reaction speaking out. But it’s not the rational or realistic reaction.

I’m not decrying the feeling of wanting to do that. Of course you feel angry so you would want that person to be physically hurt. But is that going to fix anything? I don’t think so.

@DominicX – I have heard you talk about your life often and it sounds as if you truly have a Leave it to Beaver childhood only wealthier. You are lucky. So you probably have no idea what it is like to be in mortal fear in your own house. It changes your perspective on life to be sure. And you apparently did not read my answer, I said I understood her feelings and could relate. If you live in terror for yourself and your dog and your family, it can change your beliefs.

So I respect your non violent feelings but I really think it is one of those cases where you can’t possibly understand how it feels. And you are right, it won’t cure him of his problems but if he is scared of you, it might stop him from harassing you and believe me I would have done anything to achieve that goal.

@rooeytoo

I said there was nothing wrong with the feelings and that they’re perfectly natural. And I do have an example. One of my mom’s friends growing up was terrorized by an older brother. He didn’t do anything to his parents, but he abused his younger sister her whole life. One day she decided to throw a chair at him. He responded by punching her in the face and breaking her nose. The sad part is that this woman whom my mom still knows denies the whole thing. She denies that she was ever abused, even though she told everything to my mom when they were younger.

And I never said I understood how it feels. I just said that this question is asking for a solution to a serious problem and a short-sighted emotional solution that might make things worse is not a solution.

Like I said, it isn’t about morals. It’s about being realistic. If you think it really would solve the problem, then do what you need to do to solve the problem. I wouldn’t want to see Cyndi’s situation get even worse though because they responded with violence.

But it was clear from the first few “violence” comments that these people did not have any experience either and were simply putting the typical “I want to see them suffer” response in, which is perfectly natural, but isn’t a solution, and came off to me as more of a “Oh, that’s crossing the line there. See! Corporal punishment isn’t all bad! Toldja.”

(without jumping into the current) @cyndihugs, I think you should tell your brother that the next time he threatens or attacks your mother, sister, or you with violence, you will call the police. And then honor that promise. You have the right to call the police on him if you feel unsafe.

no no no no! Actually, I get in fights with my brother often. I’m 16 and he’s 15 and well actually,we go into punches and kicks. We don’t give a damn about if we bleed! But yes, both of you stand correct in a way. And I lurve both of your answers. @rooeytoo is showing his support. (: Like @DominicX and @rabbitheart said before, I will tell my parents to seek help for my brother with a psychiatrist or whatever. And yes, sometimes [a little] violence is an answer.I sometimes wish I could strangle him, but he’s my brother~
[edit]

In 6th grade I threatened to skip out of school if my mom didn’t switch schools. I was being bullied unmercifully and I really did need a change. I also was afraid I would get stuck in Mr Millers class. I had him for math only the year before and it was the most miserable hour of my day.
My mom spent a lot of time talking to me and finally convinced me to go back to my school. I told her I would as long as I wasn’t in Mr Millers class.
When the class assignments came out I went into a terror fit. I was assigned Mr. Miller.
My mom called the school and told them that they had to move me. They made all kinds of excuses but for once my mom stood up for me. (That felt really good. I was the 5th of six children, we were poor and my dad had just died the year before. They never had much time to take a lot of interest in my school work.)
I didn’t get to go to the different school, but I got what I really needed. My mom took the time to listen to me and really take my needs into account and not what was easier for her.
We didn’t have access to family counseling 40 years ago, but it sounds like your family could use it as much as mine needed it.

By the way, Mrs Anderson (The teacher I was switched to) was one of the best teachers I ever had. She really boosted my self esteem.

So @DominicX – Then why did you single me out to address directly?

I simply empathize with @cyndihugs, I understand how she feels.

And seriously knowing that your mother’s friend was abused is a far cry from seeing your brother threaten you or your mother with bodily harm in your own house.

@rooeytoo

Because I was the only one “decrying corporal punishment” so that seemed like an obvious reference to me and I felt I should respond because it wasn’t based on a “higher moral ground” as you put it.

And I know, but that doesn’t make the story any less valid and I was using as an example of how a violent reaction only led to more violence and I think you can see that plenty in hundreds of examples around the world. Like I said, the point is to fix it, not to make it worse or temporarily fix it and it seems very difficult to fix.

@Judi I’m glad everything turned alright. (: My mom often asks my brother what he needs, and he never responds. As I said before, we go to the same school and I see him throughout the days and he barely complaina about his classes. He just says his classes suck and are boring just after his friend moved schools.

[sigh]
@All thanks. (:

He may also be bipolar. My daughter ended up in Juvenile hall when she was in high school for beating me up.
It was totally out of character for her. She was so full of rage.
Now she is 27 and you wouldn’t believe she is the same person. She still has issues, but she has a better set of coping skills. I really think he (and the whole family too) need to get some professional help before someone gets hurt. Help is available, although it is sometimes hard to access. Does your family have health insurance?

@DominicX – okey dokey I didn’t realize you were the only one.

So you alone can tell Cynihugs if he starts beating her mom senseless she should just stand and watch because her trying to protect her mom by using any kind of violence might just upset him more.

And I agree there are avenues to explore to try to get help. In my case it didn’t help, but maybe in hers it will.

I have nothing more to say.

@Judi No, we don’t have health insurance.and I’m really sorry to hear about your daughter hitting you. Hopefully everything is better by now. Also, hopefully, my brother doesn’t go to far with any of my family members.

@cyndihugs – sorry, I didn’t mean to turn this into a personal debate with @dominicX.

@rooeytoo

What? Stop putting words in my mouth just because you’re angry. I’m disappointed that you would respond this way. I expect more from you, but this is an emotional topic and that’s what emotional topics do to people.

My original problem was with the people who said that he needs a “beating” from his parents, not that Cyndi or her mother shouldn’t defend each other. I said nothing about self-defense. I was speaking of revenge. Getting revenge after the fact simply because you think he deserves it, not defending yourself because you’re in danger. There’s a huge difference. It’s like killing someone because they have a knife to your throat versus killing someone because they beat you up a week ago. You’re completely misunderstanding and/or twisting what I said to fit what you want to hear, so I give up. I’ve said all I need to say. You don’t want to hear what I have to say, but I’m saying it.

Cyndi: All I can say is that I hope this whole thing ends and I hope you do what will be most likely to fix the situation and don’t hesitate to defend your mother or have your mother defend you. Try and get help from someone outside of the family. It never hurts to have someone else know about it; they could help you. Good luck and good night.

Make some colored photocopied flyers of your brother featuring him and stating how he’s willing to bully his own mother in order to want to go to their school. If he does end up over there, at least a few ass kickings will be waiting.

Maybe he could get an evaluation from the school psychologist. From talking to my kids, I know that if they are making the whole family miserable, they are twice as miserable. Something is very wrong and your brother needs help. If he doesn’t get it he could end up in jail. He won’t get the appropriate help there, but if he can get diagnosed early (before he’s 22) he will have a better chance of getting the medical attention he needs throughout his life. What state do you live in?

I looked on your page. Here is the page for Arizona’s Kid Care program. Your family can’t make a whole lot of money though. The income restrictions are shown on the page.

Arizona.and it’s really hard to get a damn psychologist where I live, especially the school’s psychologist.
We’re 6 (not including dog and fish) in the family. We got hit by the economic crash and well, we’re short on money.

Has nobody just said “call the police!”? Fine… Call the police!

@DominicX

You are forgetting the fact that guys who beat or threaten women are cowards and if a coward gets a beating for doing something he is liable to think twice about doing it again. All punishment isn’t revenge – some is a deterrent. I would make sure that he experienced both fear and pain if it happened to me. I have male friends and relatives who would make sure it happened.

You really need help from some social services agency. This is a dangerous situation. Talk to people at school about calling in child welfare. Keep talking until you reach someone (the principal?) who will do something. This situation can’t go on and I doubt that anyone in the family, on their own, has the power to stop him.

Hugs (( ))

Its cases like this that put people on TV. So eliminate the potential. Tell him you’ll call the cops if he does it again and do it next time. because thats your moms son, she may interfere which in return will make you feel foolish for trying to protect her. so. If your there, call the police, get a report for the future for your records in case he tries that on you. if he’s your moms only son, it will take her a minute to register her emotions properly. when they feel they only have on son or daughter, reasoning and logic gets cloudy. so protect yourself by preparing to deal with her while trying to protect her form him. if that doesnt work….you have to do the hardest thing on earth….move YOURSELF out of the picture. Until your mom is ready to deal with him, shes not going to. get police reports if you ever have to call so in the future, God forbid anything weird happens, you can prove he does have a history. Good luck

A therapist might be able to figure out what is really bothering your brother. I think you said that he all of a sudden wanted to change schools because his friends did? So we need to figure out if he just wants to go for that reason, or if they were his protection of some sort against some really awful kids at school? I think for sure we don’t know all of the details, and he is unlikely to tell them I think. Is there a third school he can go to as an option to get him away from all of these past friendships? Also, the therapist can address his anger issues, which are more than just wanting to change schools in my opinion.

If the violent behavior continues towards your mom after all efforts to listen to him and get therapy, and she has a brother of decent size, I would have him go up to your brother and tell him he will beat the living shit out of him if he ever touches your mother again. I am not for corporal punishment, but I don’t think this is the same thing. This is bully behavior at this point. One of my exboyfriends mother had been hit by her husband several times when they were first married. One of her brothers found out, and all three brothers went and beat the living crap out of her husband, he never hit her again.

Further, you all should probably go to family therapy together, because if you are in your teens and still drawing blood from physical fights there is something that needs to be addressed.

Why is there a problem with him changing schools? Did your Mom provide any reasons for stopping him?

Sounds to me like there’s a lot of disrespect in your family, and it isn’t all coming from your brother. Also, since you say that money is tight, that can put a lot of stress on people, and make them act more impulsively than they otherwise would. Do you guys get enough sleep? How is your nutrition? Is your Mom around much? What happened to Dad?

I’ll bet you have enough issues there to make folks put their anger on a very short fuse. It sounds like you are skeptical that you can get family counseling. You won’t know until you try, though.

Have you spoken to your mother about this? What does she think about your brother’s behavior? Does she admit to being afraid of him? Has violence been a standard mode of dealing with things in your family? Did you all get spanked a lot? What happened to Dad?

Do you ever have family meetings? I doesn’t sound likely that people would listen to each other if you did, but I was just wondering. I could help if you start talking directly to each other about your feelings. Like you could say to your brother, “I get scared when you push Mom. I’m afraid you’ll hurt her. I get scared when you say you want to kill Sis. I’m afraid you’ll hurt her. I’m afraid you’ll hurt me. I want you to stop threatening everyone. Why do you think you are always so angry?”

Who knows what he’ll say. If he is at all introspective, he might say that he’s angry because no one listens to him, or no one cares about him. You might tell him that you love him, but you are still scared and want him to stop being violent. You just say this over and over, and try not to resort to violence, but “use your words.” There are other problem solving mechanisms, and, as @DominicX says, violence generally only leads to more violence. Stopping violence by using fear is not the solution you want. It only drives you further apart. You’ve got to find out what is underneath all this, and address the real problems, not the symptoms.

This will be difficult for you. You’re only 16. You probably don’t know much about theories about abusers, nor are you skilled at problem solving. It sounds like you only know one problem-solving skill—violence. It’s not an effective way to deal with things. It may work in the short term, but it does nothing to deal with underlying causes, so it won’t work in the long term. But if it’s all you know, it’s what you’ll do.

At the very least, you need to talk to someone outside the family who may be able to help you develop other means for dealing with this. It sounds like your mother is unable to cope. It’s not supposed to be your job to deal with this, but you seem to have the job whether or not you should have it. Is there any adult outside the family who you trust? Who is experienced in things other than violence? Try to find one. Try to develop more problem-solving tools.

Really, talking about it openly and honestly is the best approach. Whether you can get to that place, I don’t know. It’ll probably be very difficult. At the very least, you can try it, and keep on trying it. All the while you still have to defend yourself and your sister, and now your Mom. You’re growing up faster than you might like, but you gotta deal with what life gives you. It’s good that you asked this question. I wish you luck. Please ask more specific questions as things go along. Tell us what is happening. We may be able to offer better advice.

The realistic answer is that this behavior will likely escalate and it sounds as if that is already happening. It is very typical for the parent not to “do anything” so although it may feel surprising it is quite the normal reaction. I do have a couple of recommendations for you. Realistic ones.

1. Call the police next time he gets out of hand. Having the police just come to the house may be enough to shock him out of his behavior.
2. Tell a school counselor, not because I expect them to be able to help but for the following reasons:
a. They can tell you about how to proceed further, give you resources, people you can contact for help
b. They are mandatory reports and may have to pass this information on to someone who can actually help
3. Call a hotline: 1−800−799−SAFE(7233) This way you are anonymous but at the same time you can get tips from experts.

Having said all of that I do think there is some issues your brother needs to deal with. He needs to be in counseling. Sometimes it can be very hard to find the “right fit” and when people find a bad counselor they quit altogether. It is better to just quit that counselor and go find a better one. Also I feel like your brother and mother may need to get a mediator to help with this school situation. It really does seem like this issue may have more behind it.

I think it is wonderful you want to help out and make a better family situation. I really hope you follow through.

@daloon My dad is around. He talks to us about how school is going and stuff. School is fine with me so I’ll just go with a random thing that happened to me that day. And my brother never responds. Talk about lack of respect. The problem with him is that he can never speak his mind. You ask him something and he never replies. My mom took him to his counselor just a week ago just last Wednesday. Last Friday, a security had to come for him just to make him go to school. He got pissed at the world for that. Also, sometimes, he demands things, even if his day is going fantastic. He never asks nicely. He pushes us most of the cases, and well, it comes to my dad, mom, and me to tell him to stop it in any way. My mom has called the police, but he gets away by doing community service.

We have food. We eat twice every school day(eat lunch at school and breakfast is an option. We wake up super late and don’t have time for breakfast) and maybe 4 times each day during the weekend. He also says that my mom should be taken care of him. As if she doesn’t! She wakes him up. WTF! She never woke me up when I was his age. He’s the only guy brother I have and the rest are two sisters. My mom asks him why he treats her that way with such demands and disrespect (he even calls her names). HE says that it’s because she won’t do anything to try to make him change schools. He has never mentioned being bullied and I haven’t seen him getting bullied.
We go to the same school.

As I said before, we are really tight on the money. Why the flip would you want to take your kid to a 10-mile away school, when the disignated school is ½ a mile away from your house, just to satisfy his wants? His friends are an influence in his life, and whatever they do, he wants to do. A friend of his got in a fight and moved to the 10-mile-away-from-our-house and his crush, who is a total slut, goes to that same school. We can’t afford to drive him to school, which would take nearly 30 minutes to go and come back. The school he is currently attending is the #1 public school in this town. The rest of the school are far more than 10 miles and the closest is a Private Catholic school. He’s an atheist.

When he was younger, he was never this way. He was really sweet and respectful. Everything changed when he was an eighth grader in middle school. He became a different person. He got in a lot of trouble and even got in a fight. His grades are good, though. He has never flunked a class.

I still haven’t told my mom about the psychologist thing. I hadn’t seen her today. She’s at work. (: I will tell her as soon as she comes and sits down. (:
It’s not easy being his sister.
*I also forgot to mention earlier that he often complains there are a lot of homosexual/bisexual people at the school. Which is a lame excuse because there really isn’t much compared to the # of homosexuals/bisexuals at the school he wants to attend.

It sounds like the school issue is a no-brainer because he cannot be taken there or picked up. It also sounds like he has severe problems and is a danger to his family and himself. Maybe you can ask to speak to his counselor or else find someone to talk to that can help your family if your parents can’t/won’t cope with it. He sounds like a bright guy, as clearly are you, and I feel so bad for you, him and the whole family.

This situation can’t go on. One thing not clear to me – is your dad living in your house or just “around”?

Your brother sounds like he feels lonely and left out. His friends who tranferred to the other school might feel like “family” to him, and maybe they are the only people around that your brother feels understand him. He sounds very angry and sad. Anger many times is an outward expression men use when they are very hurt. You said he won’t talk about how he really feels, but he does tell you that he feels a lack of attention from your mother, he is telling you some informatio there. This school thing is another test that his wants and feelings will be ignored. When you said he sees a counselor, is it a school counselor? It seems to me that your brother is having his feelings dismissed and he unfortunatley is poor at expressing what he really feels in a way that will get him some understanding, and it just comes out as demands. You all need family therapy I think to be able to communicate better.

Something must be done. He sounds very unhappy and as @janbb said is a danger to your family and possibly to himself. If somehow you all get through with nothing horrible happening until he finally is older and leaves home, he will be an adult who is poor at handling his anger, the time to change is now.

A sudden change in personality in 8th grade? He has a counselor, you said? Could he be doing drugs of some kind? Has he ever been evaluated for mental illness? Sudden changes are warning signs, although it’s hard to say what they warn of.

Something is causing this behavior. It won’t do any good to just try to deal with the behavior if you don’t deal with whatever is causing it. All I can suggest is that you keep urging your parents to get him help or a diagnosis or something, and that keep observing him, and try to note more about his behavior. Also, you may want to read up about drug-induced behavior or mental illnesses such as ADD, bipolar disorder, and/or schiziphrenia to see if there’s anything that sounds familiar.

It is a serious problem when there is hitting involved, more than once. Your mon needs to get him to see someone before it gets any worse.